God and Suicide

[Taylor]

Troll it is

No, I'm real, and it is due to my confidence in Christ, why I don't fear death.

 

[AveryConure]

Ruh roh Raggy I think a match has been lit in this thread

 

[EddieAllenPoe]

It's the truth, laid out plain in front of you. To each their own, but Jesus laid down his life for you and endured unimaginable suffering out of extraordinary love and compassion for you. If you reject his free offering, you can look forward to eternal torment and separation from God.

Accept Jesus... or go to Hell. That's a disturbing belief. Do you know why you believe that? Does it bother you at all? Did you ever question it? I honestly don't know how so many people ever came to blindly believing something like this. It sounds psychotic. It doesn't sound loving or just at all. That's by human standards. How could you ever believe God came up with this plan?

All that aside, the belief in an Eternal Hell also sounds fake.... Especially when you consider the fact that Judaism never had such a concept. They still don't. So why did Christians start teaching it? It actually wasn't taught for almost 500 years after Christ. The Catholic Church didn't start teaching the doctrine of an Eternal Hell until the 5th century. Wouldn't you think it'd be vital for all those people who lived before 500ad to know about Hell? I don't know why more people won't reject such an absurd belief. You honestly have to be a cold and calloused person to believe this sounds reasonable.

 

[lost_soul83]

I think I threw up in my mouth reading that. Are you a troll or do you really believe that shit?

Are you an asshole or do you really believe the shit you post? Quite honestly, you're the one that seems like a troll, condemning anyone that doesn't share your views and opinions. Go somewhere else and put people down, we're all suffering enough.

Accept Jesus... or go to Hell. That's a disturbing belief. Do you know why you believe that? Does it bother you at all? Did you ever question it? I honestly don't know how so many people ever came to blindly believing something like this. It sounds psychotic. It doesn't sound loving or just at all. That's by human standards. How could you ever believe God came up with this plan?

All that aside, the belief in an Eternal Hell also sounds fake.... Especially when you consider the fact that Judaism never had such a concept. They still don't. So why did Christians start teaching it? It actually wasn't taught for almost 500 years after Christ. The Catholic Church didn't start teaching the doctrine of an Eternal Hell until the 5th century. Wouldn't you think it'd be vital for all those people who lived before 500ad to know about Hell? I don't know why more people reject such an absurd belief. You honestly have to be a cold and calloused person to believe this sounds reasonable.

Why are you getting down on this guy for believing in God?? Isn't this a place for everyone to share their differing opinions about life, death, suicide, etc. without getting criticized and ostracized for those opinions?? I think I might need to get off this forum......

It's the truth, laid out plain in front of you. To each their own, but Jesus laid down his life for you and endured unimaginable suffering out of extraordinary love and compassion for you. If you reject his free offering, you can look forward to eternal torment and separation from God.

I agree as a Christian, but I'm also not gonna shove my opinions down anyone's throat. I think you're a nice guy and I hope you find everything in life (or death) that you're looking for, but just remember that Jesus loves everyone, including people that don't believe he exists.

Ruh roh Raggy I think a match has been lit in this thread

Agreed. But I for one am not gonna get my panties in a twist because someone has a different opinion than I do. Some people here need to settle tf down I think.

 

[EddieAllenPoe]

Why are you getting down on this guy for believing in God?? Isn't this a place for everyone to share their differing opinions about life, death, suicide, etc. without getting criticized and ostracized for those opinions?? I think I might need to get off this forum......

I believe he did share his opinion. So did I. Because we can. Nobody said we had to agree. What's your point? You seem a little feisty today. lol

 

[lost_soul83]

I believe he did share his opinion. So did I. Because we can. Nobody said we had to agree. What's your point? You seem a little feisty today. lol

Yeah I guess feisty is the nice way to say it lol! I think everyone can get fired up talking about religion, whether they buy into it or not.

 

[Taylor]

Accept Jesus... or go to Hell. That's a disturbing belief. Do you know why you believe that? Does it bother you at all? Did you ever question it? I honestly don't know how so many people ever came to blindly believing something like this. It sounds psychotic. It doesn't sound loving or just at all. That's by human standards. How could you ever believe God came up with this plan?

All that aside, the belief in an Eternal Hell also sounds fake.... Especially when you consider the fact that Judaism never had such a concept. They still don't. So why did Christians start teaching it? It actually wasn't taught for almost 500 years after Christ. The Catholic Church didn't start teaching the doctrine of an Eternal Hell until the 5th century. Wouldn't you think it'd be vital for all those people who lived before 500ad to know about Hell? I don't know why more people won't reject such an absurd belief. You honestly have to be a cold and calloused person to believe this sounds reasonable.

The answer to that is pretty simple actually, because although God is a loving and forgiving god, he is also a just god, and must uphold his duty. However, the last thing God wants is for you to go to Hell, so He manages to do both. I found a quick article that summarizes the general concept quite well with helpful analogies, here: https://www.bibleinoneyear.org/bioy/commentary/2784

 

[Misanthrope]

I don't really care what religious views there are on suicide. Until a probe lands in the afterlife and takes rock samples it seems a pointless question to me.

I do though take issue with the notion of it being selfish or something to be punished over.

I did watch that video and understand his sentiments and earnest desire to help. I will not condemn him on that. The trite phrase though, Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Is founded on a flawed premise, that problems are temporary. You only have to point at permanent maladies to undermine that premise. It is also not just limited to physical disease but mental disorders as well. The statistics on treatment resistance of mental illness is another thing you can point at.

I think it is less a question about selfishness. Instead more about pain and what can you do to mitigate that pain? If you can't do much and have exhausted the options that are meant to resolve that pain. Then it comes down to what you measure as an acceptable quality of life.

Being driven to suicide is also the equivalent of me setting you on fire beside a swimming pool that people happen to be playing in. The immediacy of seemingly inescapable pain will compel you to jump in that pool regardless of how disruptive it is to those people playing.

For the most part, the suicidal consider the feelings of those they will leave behind. For many, they willingly choose remaining on fire solely not to disrupt the people playing in the pool. At great expense to themselves. That demonstrates consideration of an intense nature. Which is the complete opposite of the definition of selfish. The selfish won't even ponder it or register it as a question in the first place.

Even seasoned marines break to pain eventually, with techniques more focused on delaying that inevitability whilst under torture, while they hold out hope for rescue. So what chance do average people have, who are being tortured by their own minds and bodies over a span of a lifetime? Who have exhausted avenues of escape and realised there is no rescue?

 

[Life_is_Dead]

Love your analogy of suicide with the swimming pool.

Such a great picture to throw in an argument. I'm definitely keeping it in the back of my mind somewhere.

Also, I would add that "Life is merely temporary" anyway.

 

[Taylor]

I don't really care what religious views there are on suicide. Until a probe lands in the afterlife and takes rock samples it seems a pointless question to me.

I do though take issue with the notion of it being selfish or something to be punished over.

I did watch that video and understand his sentiments and earnest desire to help. I will not condemn him on that. The trite phrase though, Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Is founded on a flawed premise, that problems are temporary. You only have to point at permanent maladies to undermine that premise. It is also not just limited to physical disease but mental disorders as well. The statistics on treatment resistance of mental illness is another thing you can point at.

I think it is less a question about selfishness. Instead more about pain and what can you do to mitigate that pain? If you can't do much and have exhausted the options that are meant to resolve that pain. Then it comes down to what you measure as an acceptable quality of life.

Being driven to suicide is also the equivalent of me setting you on fire beside a swimming pool that people happen to be playing in. The immediacy of seemingly inescapable pain will compel you to jump in that pool regardless of how disruptive it is to those people playing.

For the most part, the suicidal consider the feelings of those they will leave behind. For many, they willingly choose remaining on fire solely not to disrupt the people playing in the pool. At great expense to themselves. That demonstrates consideration of an intense nature. Which is the complete opposite of the definition of selfish. The selfish won't even ponder it or register it as a question in the first place.

Even seasoned marines break to pain eventually, with techniques more focused on delaying that inevitability whilst under torture, while they hold out hope for rescue. So what chance do average people have, who are being tortured by their own minds and bodies over a span of a lifetime? Who have exhausted avenues of escape and realised there is no rescue?

Aside from religion as well, I thought this was a very thought given interpretation of suicide, that parallels my exact same mindset on the topic identically. High five!

In fact, they should sticky this post as a reference when anyone brings up the "permanent solution to a temporary problem" argument.

As a follow up to my last post, I couldn't help it, sorry...

 

[Ruffian]

I don't really care what religious views there are on suicide. Until a probe lands in the afterlife and takes rock samples it seems a pointless question to me.

I do though take issue with the notion of it being selfish or something to be punished over.

I did watch that video and understand his sentiments and earnest desire to help. I will not condemn him on that. The trite phrase though, Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Is founded on a flawed premise, that problems are temporary. You only have to point at permanent maladies to undermine that premise. It is also not just limited to physical disease but mental disorders as well. The statistics on treatment resistance of mental illness is another thing you can point at.

I think it is less a question about selfishness. Instead more about pain and what can you do to mitigate that pain? If you can't do much and have exhausted the options that are meant to resolve that pain. Then it comes down to what you measure as an acceptable quality of life.

Being driven to suicide is also the equivalent of me setting you on fire beside a swimming pool that people happen to be playing in. The immediacy of seemingly inescapable pain will compel you to jump in that pool regardless of how disruptive it is to those people playing.

For the most part, the suicidal consider the feelings of those they will leave behind. For many, they willingly choose remaining on fire solely not to disrupt the people playing in the pool. At great expense to themselves. That demonstrates consideration of an intense nature. Which is the complete opposite of the definition of selfish. The selfish won't even ponder it or register it as a question in the first place.

Even seasoned marines break to pain eventually, with techniques more focused on delaying that inevitability whilst under torture, while they hold out hope for rescue. So what chance do average people have, who are being tortured by their own minds and bodies over a span of a lifetime? Who have exhausted avenues of escape and realised there is no rescue?

THANK YOU!!!!! I've been saying for years that pro-life assholes need to change their tagline about it being a "temporary problem." For most people, mental illness puts them at risk for self-destructive behavior, unsatisfying experiences with work, and problems with relationships spread over a lifetime that has to be medicated with life-threatening drugs. Exactly how is that temporary? Or even chronic physical pain, like people who live with excruciating back pain that can never be resolved? Ugh, it makes me sick just thinking about these trite, smug assumptions. There is a lot of research done on the fact that people who "think positive" all the time are delusional, and that slightly depressed people see the world for what it is. Now, morbidly depressed people are another story; they need treatment and may see the world more horribly.

 

[Jenna]

I don't really care what religious views there are on suicide. Until a probe lands in the afterlife and takes rock samples it seems a pointless question to me.

I do though take issue with the notion of it being selfish or something to be punished over.

I did watch that video and understand his sentiments and earnest desire to help. I will not condemn him on that. The trite phrase though, Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Is founded on a flawed premise, that problems are temporary. You only have to point at permanent maladies to undermine that premise. It is also not just limited to physical disease but mental disorders as well. The statistics on treatment resistance of mental illness is another thing you can point at.

I think it is less a question about selfishness. Instead more about pain and what can you do to mitigate that pain? If you can't do much and have exhausted the options that are meant to resolve that pain. Then it comes down to what you measure as an acceptable quality of life.

Being driven to suicide is also the equivalent of me setting you on fire beside a swimming pool that people happen to be playing in. The immediacy of seemingly inescapable pain will compel you to jump in that pool regardless of how disruptive it is to those people playing.

For the most part, the suicidal consider the feelings of those they will leave behind. For many, they willingly choose remaining on fire solely not to disrupt the people playing in the pool. At great expense to themselves. That demonstrates consideration of an intense nature. Which is the complete opposite of the definition of selfish. The selfish won't even ponder it or register it as a question in the first place.

Even seasoned marines break to pain eventually, with techniques more focused on delaying that inevitability whilst under torture, while they hold out hope for rescue. So what chance do average people have, who are being tortured by their own minds and bodies over a span of a lifetime? Who have exhausted avenues of escape and realised there is no rescue?

I second @Taylor reposting this. Thank you @Misanthrope. Very well said.

@EddieAllenPoe i am a Christian. I have seen this video and watched several of her talks as well. Their son had these thoughts when he was very small. She mentioned that in one of her talks. If your mind has never been ill with depression you can't possibly understand. I know he had the best help possible. She still questions how they could have saved him.

 

[AveryConure]

Why are you getting down on this guy for believing in God?? Isn't this a place for everyone to share their differing opinions about life, death, suicide, etc. without getting criticized and ostracized for those opinions?? I think I might need to get off this forum......

To be fair I think what he was trying to get across was that he just didn't like the idea of a God who would immediately get angry with you if you either never believed in him or just believed in something else even if you were a decent person all throughout your life or you're actually making an effort in bettering yourself, which I can understand.

I also don't really have a horse in this race cause I'm not really religious but I'm not against the idea of religion either if it's honestly helping someone one in their life so if you want to ignore my post that's fine too I guess.

 

[headinghome]

THANK YOU!!!!! I've been saying for years that pro-life assholes need to change their tagline about it being a "temporary problem." For most people, mental illness puts them at risk for self-destructive behavior, unsatisfying experiences with work, and problems with relationships spread over a lifetime that has to be medicated with life-threatening drugs. Exactly how is that temporary? Or even chronic physical pain, like people who live with excruciating back pain that can never be resolved? Ugh, it makes me sick just thinking about these trite, smug assumptions. There is a lot of research done on the fact that people who "think positive" all the time are delusional, and that slightly depressed people see the world for what it is. Now, morbidly depressed people are another story; they need treatment and may see the world more horribly.

all i can say is there is no "god" a so-called beneficent being...who would allow the kind of suffering that this world has experienced....

 

[Taylor]

To be fair I think what he was trying to get across was that he just didn't like the idea of a God who would immediately get angry with you if you either never believed in him or just believed in something else even if you were a decent person all throughout your life or you're actually making an effort in bettering yourself, which I can understand.

I also don't really have a horse in this race cause I'm not really religious but I'm not against the idea of religion either if it's honestly helping someone one in their life so if you want to ignore my post that's fine too I guess.

This seems to be the general misconception most people have about God, from what I've noticed here on SS at least. God is a loving and merciful god, who certainly wouldn't become "angry" with you for not accepting Jesus, and proceed to send you to Hell himself, like some sort of personal vendetta against you lol. Hell is just the unfortunate destination for all of us as sinners, but thankfully we have a God that loves us so much, enough to sacrifice his own Son for us, in effort to save us. Refer back to my post here:

The answer to that is pretty simple actually, because although God is a loving and forgiving god, he is also a just god, and must uphold his duty. However, the last thing God wants is for you to go to Hell, so He manages to do both. I found a quick article that summarizes the general concept quite well with helpful analogies, here: https://www.bibleinoneyear.org/bioy/commentary/2784

 

[Olach]

This seems to be the general misconception most people have about God, from what I've noticed here on SS at least. God is a loving and merciful god, who certainly wouldn't become "angry" with you for not accepting Jesus, and proceed to send you to Hell himself, like some sort of personal vendetta against you lol. Hell is just the unfortunate destination for all of us as sinners, but thankfully we have a God that loves us so much, enough to sacrifice his own Son for us, in effort to save us. Refer back to my post here:

But what about suicide? Is God loving enough to accept a suicide ?
In some interview I have seen already this topic and priest said that even if you commited suicide in emotional rush, you will be accepted by God

 

[Taylor]

But what about suicide? Is God loving enough to accept a suicide ?
In some interview I have seen already this topic and priest said that even if you commited suicide in emotional rush, you will be accepted by God

Yes, God is the giver of abundant life and happiness, and everything good in life, and anything contrary to that we experience is the root of sin and the devil. God loves you so much that He gave his own Son for you, so that even if you die, (regardless if it was from suicide or not, it doesn't matter) you have the opportunity to be cleansed of your sins by believing in Him, and can crossover to life again. Check out my posts on this other thread here, (ignore the naysayers): https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/any-other-christians-here.14630/

 

[EddieAllenPoe]

But what about suicide? Is God loving enough to accept a suicide ?
In some interview I have seen already this topic and priest said that even if you commited suicide in emotional rush, you will be accepted by God

That's a good question. If I'm interpreting what @Taylor is saying correctly, then it would seem you could do anything you want and still go to heaven. You just have to accept Jesus. You could lie, murder, or steal. Circumvent the rules and order some 'N' to commit suicide. It all really doesn't matter. All that matters is you accept Jesus as your personal savior. Afterall, you don't want to go to Hell do you? Supposedly, Hell is where we are all destined to go by default. We just have to fix this unfortunate fact by believing in Jesus. God had nothing to do with any of these facts. It's just an unfortunate reality.

I don't think I'm satisfied with this view. It seems artificial to me. I'm not even sure this is a real representation of Christianity. It's a tall enough order to accept there is a God in the first place. It seems strange to think if they did exist that they wouldn't have an opinion about what we did with our life. All I know is I didn't create myself and If I were in control I would have never chosen to wind up on the path to suicide. I have legitimate problems that cause me distress and I'm still seeking answers. How did I wind up here? Did I have some other sort of purpose? Am I responsible to anyone else? How would a person go about knowing?

 

[EmotionlessWanderer]

If there is an afterlife punishment for suicide then it contradicts human existence because human existence is all about free will and selfish desires.

 

[ShadowOfTheDay]

I guess my biggest quarrel with christianity/ theism in general is this:

I didn't choose this life. Rather, I feel that this life was thrust upon me; and so, I don't feel like a "sinner," although there are many things that I regret. I don't feel like I deserve to go to hell when I die, and that seems like the basic message of Christianity: that everyone would go to he'll were it not for Jesus, or whatever.

 

[Kyrok]

@Taylor, how did God sacrifice "his only son?" Did Christ cease to exist? Is God now without Christ?

Isn't it more accurate to say Christ was corporeal for 30ish years, but just as before corporeality, so Christ still is with God?

Hence, what's the sacrifice? Pretty words, but what sense can be made of them?

If you don't mind, can you explain your claim "the act of suicide, or any sin for that matter, could never separate you from his love." Doesn't the Christian tradition recognize unforgivable sins? There is a basis for that, by the way, in the synoptic gospels.

 

[Wolfjob_dayjob]

If a psychology major goes to hell for eternal torment I can't wait to see the paper they write about habituation over time to damnation and torture, n=1. Be super easy to get it past their IRB and get a grant and publish because we all know grant proposals were made in hell and journal submission guidelines by satan. Right next door!

 

[Apostle]

@Taylor, how did God sacrifice "his only son?" Did Christ cease to exist? Is God now without Christ?

Isn't it more accurate to say Christ was corporeal for 30ish years, but just as before corporeality, so Christ still is with God?

Hence, what's the sacrifice? Pretty words, but what sense can be made of them?

If you don't mind, can you explain your claim "the act of suicide, or any sin for that matter, could never separate you from his love." Doesn't the Christian tradition recognize unforgivable sins? There is a basis for that, by the way, in the synoptic gospels.

My thoughts exactly. Jesus is never really given over or lost in any form. And hell, I'll go even farther with that. The entire concept of God "sacrificing" anything has always been odd to me, even apart from that. When I think of a sacrifice, I think of someone losing something for the sake of the greater good. Even if we accept the idea that Jesus is being sacrificed, it still doesn't really add up. This is a silly and trivial example, but if two guys are eating pizza, and one guy is still hungry, but senses the other guy is even hungrier, he might save the last slice for him as a small act of sacrifice. There's a direct, simple relationship between what's being given by the one making the sacrifice, and what's being gained by the recipient of the sacrifice. One guy has to give the pizza in order for the other to get it. It's a necessity, otherwise the first guy would just keep it, eat it himself and the sacrifice couldn't be made.

But if you're an all-powerful creator, I would think there are no necessary steps involved in anything. To make an omelette, you just make the damn omelette, no broken eggs needed. If you want something to happen, you can just will it to happen. What I hear from Christians is that God, through Jesus, sacrificed himself in order to forgive humanity and offer the gift of eternal life. What I don't get is the "in order to" in that sentence. I don't see the relationship between those actions. If God wanted to absolve people of their sins and open his kingdom to them, surely he could just...do that? Without forcing himself into a human body and tormenting himself? Just seems like an added, pointless step in the process, dressed up like a meaningful sacrifice. All of the suffering he put upon himself was of his own design. An all-powerful God can't come to harm unless he willfully brings it upon himself. Sacrifice, as we humans understand it, kind of loses its meaning when you're an untouchable, indestructible deity who doesn't naturally have to make sacrifices in order to do what's right.

Here's how I picture a human equivalent of God's "sacrifice," again a goofy example but it's just for illustration: You're sitting in a dark room, reading a book. It's kind of hard to read and you wish you had turned the lights on. Suddenly, this guy stumbles into the room, and turns the light on for you. Nice of him. You're just about to thank him but then, from nowhere, he grabs a battle axe and "gallantly" chops his own arm off. Then he demands your undying gratitude and loyalty, saying, "You'd better appreciate this, it cost me my fucking ARM to get that light on for you, that's how much I love you." But obviously it didn't cost him an arm. He chose to do that himself, independently from the act of turning the light on, in a ridiculous effort to lionize what should've been nothing more than a simple, effortless act of courtesy from him. His needless self-harm did nothing to prove how much he cares about you. The loss of his arm added nothing but discomfort and pressure to the situation. Which is kind of how I view the Christian idea of God's sacrifice.

It's not a huge deal to me, in any case. I'm not bothered by religious people finding meaning in this, and believing in it, and all that. Religion is more about faith and community, and living a certain lifestyle, rather than solid reasoning, anyway. And that's fine, people should follow what they believe in, I get that. I guess it's just fascinatingly strange to me.

 

[Kyrok]

If God wanted to absolve people of their sins and open his kingdom to them, surely he could just...do that? Without forcing himself into a human body and tormenting himself? Just seems like an added, pointless step in the process, dressed up like a meaningful sacrifice.

Very well put.

Of course, theologians have answers to this: e.g. since man bears the debt of sin, man must pay it back; but since the debt is infinite, an infinite payment is needed. Hence, a being who is both man and God was needed.

However, if God is all powerful, he makes the rules and can do things however he wants.

Personally, I think that if there is a God and an afterlife, anything but universal salvation is incoherent. But I'm not a Christian.

 

[tomz323]

God understands everyone, and everything. You are already loved, more than you can possibly imagine.

God is not loving, just look around you. Hell is not loving, read the Bible it'll show you how evil that "God" is. And just to add who is he who decide how we should spend eternity, we have free will right? Anyone to keep you on fire for just not believing he exists is evil.

 

[Kyrok]

God is not loving, just look around you. Hell is not loving, read the Bible it'll show you how evil that "God" is. And just to add who is he who decide how we should spend eternity, we have free will right? Anyone to keep you on fire for just not believing he exists is evil.

The god portrayed in the Bible does not reflect our moral principles. But, if there is a God, He may be profoundly unlike what we find therein.

 

[Taylor]

I've decided not to discuss religion here anymore, due to the conflict it invites from opposing beliefs, and from the knowledge that this thread will most likely just be deleted anyway, like the other one because of that.

I'll make one final post, saying that you guys are looking at the sacrifice and atonement of Jesus from a very analytical and human perspective, that may not reflect your moral principles like @Kyrok mentioned above. That is to be expected, quite honestly.

1. God is not the cause of your suffering, or why the world is full of suffering and ugliness today. That is the work of Satan, as his primary objective from the beginning was to kill and destroy, and he succeeded when he deceived us into thinking we didn't need God, and could be like God ourselves and do things our own way, by eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. That is when the fall of man occurred as sin entered the world, and at a great cost, as the result of sin is death and suffering, which we are still susceptible to today.

2. God could've saved us right then and there without any sacrifice, by simply letting us eat from the tree of life, allowing us to live forever again. However, he couldn't do that because sin and impurity cannot inhabit his perfect kingdom, and it must be punished. If you look back, this is what I was talking about when I said that although God is a loving and merciful God, he is also a just God, and must uphold his righteousness.

Now from this point on, God didn't have to do anything. He could've just let us all die and his creation be totally destroyed, in which Satan could claim a victory. But he loves us so much, that he came to the Earth as himself, as a man, the Son of God, to take that punishment that we deserve (death) himself, so that we can be purified and cleansed of sin, and may enter into his holy kingdom as perfect, sinless and immortal beings again by believing in him. He has the power to do this because even though Satan tempted Jesus himself into sin, Jesus resisted and lead a perfect and pure, sinless life. When he died on the cross taking the full penalty of sin, despite having never sinned, he officially defeated sin, death, and Satan altogether by rising from the dead three days later, proving that evil is no match for the love of God. Jesus literally opened the gateway from death, into eternal life again, back into God's righteousness and holiness because of his sacrifice and atonement. That is quite a lot to gain if you ask me.

This is an awesome video I found that perfectly summarizes and visualizes it too:


I thought of this perfect analogy to describe it as well: Think of being stopped at the doors of an exciting nightclub (I have no interest in clubbing lol, just bear with me), because you are concealed carrying a handgun and this place doesn't allow firearms inside. In no way, shape or form could they allow firearms inside, for obvious reasons. Now instead of having no other alternative than to leave and go home, a friend suddenly sees you from inside and finds out what is going on. He then comes outside and offers to hold the handgun for you and store it in his car, so you are now granted access and can enjoy the night, as if you were never carrying in the first place. For the sake of the analogy, he was the only one able to do that because he had a car to store it in, when everyone else either walked or got a ride there.

 

[Dan23]

if I cab before you can get your n, I for some reason feel compelled to send you money out of whats left in my account at the time.
cab
ctb*

 

[Taylor]

@Dan23 if you're talking about me, I appreciate your offer, however it's no longer necessary at this point. My N should be arriving soon and I have everything else I need. Thank you though :)

 

[Dan23]

@Taylor yeah I was. Okay. You're welcome.