Discussion For the Germans here: what happens when an American has a failed cbt attempt in Germany?

[Santiago]

I never said sentenced..... sectioned for your own well-being...it is called here...

They need a legal reason to hold somebody. That's one of the main principles of any civilized country and their constitutions.

The attempt or act of suicide isn't a criminal act in Germany.

Freedom is a very serious thing and anyone being held captive (because that is essentially what you are telling me) should call their lawyer immediately.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Well, there was a refugee or student a little while back who asked a smiliar question. He said he was sectioned after an attempt and was asking about legal advice to get out. So I wouldn't count on getting out under all circumstances, but I really couln't say.

Can I just ask what method you had in mind?

Hanging or possibly by train.

 

[Santiago]

That is nonsense... they will intervene....always...

Obviously they will intervene. You will go to the hospital depending on how bad your situation is and then you will be released.

 

[voyager]

Hanging or possibly by train.

Godspeed, in case you go for it.

 

[Quax]

They can hold you....against your will for the reason to protect your own well- being / avoidance of self destructive behavior. That is not seen as sentence due to a criminal act, but as act of care.

 

[Santiago]

They can hold you....against your will for the reason to protect your own well- being / avoidance of self destructive behavior. That is not seen as sentence due to a criminal act, but as act of care.

Then once again refer me to the law. You are making all these statements without backing it up with any piece of legislation. What you are talking about is called involuntary commitment and in Germany this is a way longer process than you are making it out to be.

It's not a matter of 'oh I attempted suicide and the police come and lock me up for months'.

 

[PlathWannaBe]

I know that you know this already since you've been on these forums for quite awhile, this is nothing new to you. If you decide to CTB, please don't use the train method. Not only can it be emotionally catastrophic for the train driver, it is also extremely difficult for the clean up crew, as well as possibly dangerous for train passengers if the train driver slams on the breaks.

There are many elderly people who ride trains here, as well as young mothers with babies and children. If a train driver has to rapidly slam on brakes, any of these people could be seriously injured.

I know some people reach a point where they just don't care, and I totally understand that. I feel that way too sometimes. But if I were someone on the train, I know for sure I wouldn't want to come out with a broken arm because someone threw themselves in front of the train. This may sound unempathetic from my end, but there are other people to consider is what I'm saying.

 

[less than]

They can hold you....against your will for the reason to protect your own well- being / avoidance of self destructive behavior. That is not seen as sentence due to a criminal act, but as act of care.

Sure? Even in Germany it depends all on money. If there is no insurance or other institution which is covering the costs, then they will do: nothing

 

[Quax]

@ Santiago May i ask you where you live? Here in Germany if you fail or even if you just mention your suicidal intentions you can /will end up in a psychiatric facility.... and yes even against your will.... and yes pretty fast....same will happen in many other "civilized" countries.... so what is your problem in understanding what I'm saying.... in case you are german it should be easy for you to find the appropriate laws yourself.... so... I'm out....
@less than Hmmm.... they will do something....otherwise they could be held liable...

 

[Santiago]

For anyone who is actually interested in the facts. Go to page 82 for Germany. https://ec.europa.eu/health/ph_projects/2000/promotion/fp_promotion_2000_frep_08_en.pdf

You'll see that involuntary commitment is way more complex than people are making out to be. The same applies to German law in general btw.

After reading this you can decide for yourself whether you take the risk or not.

 

[ManWithNoName]

They can hold you....against your will for the reason to protect your own well- being / avoidance of self destructive behavior. That is not seen as sentence due to a criminal act, but as act of care.

But what if the individual who attempted ctb is an American (a visitor) with no insurance and no €€ ?

 

[raybd]

They do something like "Emergency Medicaid" - give the "required treatment" according to the law, then try to bill you for it. All those people without visas in the US - if they fall ill, this is what the US does. All major countries have some kind of treaty and reciprocal benefits for foreign nationals... but details vary. The priority is always to kick out the foreigner in some kind of "kickable" condition :) hell, they may end up giving you free treatment and a plane ride home. Now - this is the usual scenario to expect in ANY country - India too for example - I am a yank in Ind. But, it is all case by case and country by country. I think you get 15 days in a state funded malaria infested hospital and then enjoy state hospitality for a few months... then the feds kick you out if broke...

 

[ManWithNoName]

then enjoy state hospitality for a few months... then the feds kick you out if broke...

What do you mean by "state hospitality" ? Are you speaking about how the Germans act towards an American failed suicide attempter? What is this 'hospitality'? A state looney bin?

 

[raybd]

What do you mean by "state hospitality" ? Are you speaking about how the Germans act towards an American failed suicide attempter? What is this 'hospitality'? A state looney bin?

The slammer - and that last sentence was about India. In India suicide is a jailing offense. Come on, malaria in a German hospital? Malaria is a tropical disease.

 

[ManWithNoName]

The slammer - and that last sentence was about India. In India suicide is a jailing offense. Come on, malaria in a German hospital? Malaria is a tropical disease.

Ok buts lets focus here: the scenario of this post is a failed cbt attempt by an american in Germany.

 

[raybd]

All the rest I said above applies - They do something like "Emergency Medicaid" - give the "required treatment" according to the law, then try to bill you for it. All those people without visas in the US - if they fall ill, this is what the US does. All major countries have some kind of treaty and reciprocal benefits for foreign nationals... but details vary. The priority is always to kick out the foreigner in some kind of "kickable" condition :) hell, they may end up giving you free treatment and a plane ride home. Now - this is the usual scenario to expect in ANY country - India too for example - I am a yank in Ind. But, it is all case by case and country by country.

Summary: In all "normal" countries, they'll try to a) fix you according to procedure, b) penalize you according to law - if there's one, c) bill you as allowed, d) kick you back home:

 

[a.h]

I do not have insurance, and no €€ other than the small amount I have to travel with, so all I can say to them is good luck trying to get blood from a stone.

If it could be accident then say it was accident. But really I think that those who are 100% sure they are ready to go should follow advices in exit and other euthanasia organisations. I have never heard of anyone failing with those methods. Also there are volunteers who have seen many (20 or more) people going to heaven and not even one showed any signs of stress.

 

[Roger]

What do you mean by "state hospitality" ?

The land of stripey sunshine

 

[ManWithNoName]

those who are 100% sure they are ready to go should follow advices in exit and other euthanasia organisations. Also there are volunteers who have seen many (20 or more) people going to heaven and not even one showed any signs of stress.

I understand, but the train method is cheap, unlike trying to procure N and paying a lot of $$$$.

What do you mean by volunteers seen people going to heaven?

 

[raybd]

I understand, but the train method is cheap, unlike trying to procure N and paying a lot of $$$$.

What do you mean by volunteers seen people going to heaven?

Volunteers like the people work in Dignitas, Derek Humphy's outfit and Exit Intl. Note that most people who those volunteers work with are aged and terminally ill. Not teens or 20-somethings with disturbed psyches that shrinks, meds - support circle can't fix - like quite a few people here. So, those people would be peaceful during exit - lived their lives out, made peace with everything etc.

I understand, but the train method is cheap, unlike trying to procure N and paying a lot of $$$$.

What do you mean by volunteers seen people going to heaven?

Look, if you are well enough to travel and really want to go, make your CTB a public service. Go back to the US. Buy the biggest gun you can at your local Walmart and take out some baddies with you

 

[ManWithNoName]

Volunteers like the people work in Dignitas, Derek Humphy's outfit and Exit Intl. Note that most people who those volunteers work with are aged and terminally ill. Not teens or 20-somethings with disturbed psyches that shrinks, meds - support circle can't fix - like quite a few people here. So, those people would be peaceful during exit - lived their lives out, made peace with everything etc.

Look, if you are well enough to travel and really want to go, make your CTB a public service. Go back to the US. Buy the biggest gun you can at your local Walmart and take out some baddies with you

I've been an expat since 2000, I have nothing against America, I just do not want to go back. My acquaintances friends are all in Europe. I'm simply inquiring about ctb in Germany simply to know the protocols of "What if...?" and I could very well ctb in another EU country—it all depends on if I go over the edge while in a specific nation.

Note that most people who those volunteers work with are aged and terminally ill. Not teens or 20-somethings with disturbed psyches that shrinks, meds - support circle can't fix - like quite a few people here.

Respectfully man, that's a rather bold statement considering you do not know thoroughly all the individual cases of the younger members here.

I do not thoroughly know everyone's individual situation either, but I hold back on making sweeping generalizations.

 

[raybd]

I've been an expat since 2000, I have nothing against America, I just do not want to go back. My acquaintances friends are all in Europe. I'm simply inquiring about ctb in Germany simply to know the protocols of "What if...?" and I could very well ctb in another EU country—it all depends on if I go over the edge while in a specific nation.

Respectfully man, that's a rather bold statement considering you do not know thoroughly all the individual cases of the younger members here.

I do not thoroughly know everyone's individual situation either, but I hold back on making sweeping generalizations.

From what I've seen, it's a youngish crowd here - different sites have different demos - I can't say I've seen a lot of this site. Isn't it simply natural that older bodies fail more than younger ones? The PPH people have a age 50 minimum. A lot of people here are talking about various life conditions getting to them than a particular illness becoming insurmountable. At least in whatever threads I saw.

You know fresh air always changes peoples' minds. If you are traveling, why not go to some really, really laid back place, where time runs slow... and see how you figure CTB? Germans have an intricate legal system and enforce sternly - that I can tell you.

 

[forever21]

One thing I saw wasn't considered is that you get indeed involuntary hospitalized but during your time there you would receive therapy. I don't think that this would be possible if you can't speek German and I don't think that the staff there speaks well enough English so maybe you would have to leave the country and get treatment at home?

 

[ManWithNoName]

You know fresh air always changes peoples' minds. If you are traveling, why not go to some really, really laid back place, where time runs slow... and see how you figure CTB? Germans have an intricate legal system and enforce sternly - that I can tell you.

I hear ya - I've been on the Mediterranean coast of Spain for some time now—yet still considering calling it quits. And btw I'm a more older member here in my 40's.