Firearm vs N

[RememberWhatUCameFor]

couldnt you combine both?

 

[TAW122]

couldnt you combine both?

You could take the N first then use the gun on yourself, but not the other way around because the gun is near instant or close to that while N takes a bit of time before you lose conscious (I might be wrong but that's my understanding of how fast N kicks in -- I'm not an expert on N btw). At any rate, that seems a bit redundant because either method has a really, really high chance of success (N with antiemetics and firearm aimed at the brainstem with the right caliber/cartridge).

 

[Stillnotsure]

Yes this is true too, and I think of the small or mid size (buckshot) pellets would act almost like a big slug at point blank range, thus annihilating everything around and on the brainstem, whereas one bullet requires more precision to land a critical hit (on the brainstem).

As a newbie when it comes to handling guns, I just enjoy the added insurance of doing enough damage even when it is not absolutely on point on the brainstem. I wonder though, if let's say the parts around the brainstem is destroyed but the brainstem is in tact (though badly damaged from shock and trauma) would a person still die (even if it is minutes later)? I assume if in the rare chance of a failure to take out the brainstem, perhaps death from blood loss and shock could still be very high/likely?

You don't have to shoot the brain stem to die. There are many factors to consider. A large enough caliber with a big enough velocity will cause a shockwave of fluid through the tissue that damages everything causing bleeding and swelling. The brain swells, putting pressure on critical structures such as the brain stem killing you.

 

[TAW122]

You don't have to shoot the brain stem to die. There are many factors to consider. A large enough caliber with a big enough velocity will cause a shockwave of fluid through the tissue that damages everything causing bleeding and swelling. The brain swells, putting pressure on critical structures such as the brain stem killing you.

I suppose this could be true too, and assuming I use 00 buckshot (which I will get soon, even though I do have #4 birdshot - but just for added bonus success rate), perhaps my head would be completely destroyed and die of other factors. Furthermore, I do plan to make it difficult to reach me or take a long time to find me (in a secluded area, maybe even barricaded). With those added measures I think I'm at 100% if not near 100%.

Anyways, I'll let TiredHorse give his response to your post.

 

[TiredHorse]

Anyways, I'll let TiredHorse give his response to your post.

For the record, I'm flattered by the credit I have received, but from what I can tell @Stillnotsure is every bit as knowledgable about firearms and their capabilities as I am. From what I have read, I'd say we've both done a fair bit of shooting and we've both worked in emergency medicine. I tend to try and avoid nuance for the sake of clarity, but all that she says is still entirely true. You could consider me a basic instructor and her a more nuance-oriented, advanced instructor.

You don't have to shoot the brain stem to die. There are many factors to consider. A large enough caliber with a big enough velocity will cause a shockwave of fluid through the tissue that damages everything causing bleeding and swelling. The brain swells, putting pressure on critical structures such as the brain stem killing you.

In the interests of making sure the information on this site is technically correct --yes, this is all absolutely correct.

My only concern with this post is that it may lead to confusion about the methodology in using guns to ctb. A few forumites have seemed of the impression --or perhaps just hopeful-- that they could point a gun anywhere at their head and die from the shot. That is clearly not the case, but in the fog of despair (where so many of us spend so much of our time) and without considerable experience with firearms, ambiguity could reinforce that impression.

So to summarize and create the clearest representation of the situation that I am able:

1) Aiming at and hitting the brainstem should be the overwhelming intention of anyone attempting to end their life with a gun. Without this intention, and the application of methods to achieve it, the chance of success is drastically reduced.

Translation: No matter what, you need to at least aim for the brainstem.

2) A near miss of the brainstem may be adequate to kill you, with the margin for error directly correlated to the caliber of the gun used: the more powerful the caliber --> the greater the force delivered to the inside of the skull --> the more extensive and far-reaching the damage imparted by the shot --> and the better the chance of fatal damage to the brainstem even in the event of a miss.

Translation: The more powerful the gun, the wider your margin for error in case you miss the brainstem itself.

Stillnotsure, would you concur with my synopsis?

 

[Stillnotsure]

For the record, I'm flattered by the credit I have received, but from what I can tell @Stillnotsure is every bit as knowledgable about firearms and their capabilities as I am. From what I have read, I'd say we've both done a fair bit of shooting and we've both worked in emergency medicine. I tend to try and avoid nuance for the sake of clarity, but all that she says is still entirely true. You could consider me a basic instructor and her a more nuance-oriented, advanced instructor.

In the interests of making sure the information on this site is technically correct --yes, this is all absolutely correct.

My only concern with this post is that it may lead to confusion about the methodology in using guns to ctb. A few forumites have seemed of the impression --or perhaps just hopeful-- that they could point a gun anywhere at their head and die from the shot. That is clearly not the case, but in the fog of despair (where so many of us spend so much of our time) and without considerable experience with firearms, ambiguity could reinforce that impression.

So to summarize and create the clearest representation of the situation that I am able:

1) Aiming at and hitting the brainstem should be the overwhelming intention of anyone attempting to end their life with a gun. Without this intention, and the application of methods to achieve it, the chance of success is drastically reduced.

Translation: No matter what, you need to at least aim for the brainstem.

2) A near miss of the brainstem may be adequate to kill you, with the margin for error directly correlated to the caliber of the gun used: the more powerful the caliber --> the greater the force delivered to the inside of the skull --> the more extensive and far-reaching the damage imparted by the shot --> and the better the chance of fatal damage to the brainstem even in the event of a miss.

Translation: The more powerful the gun, the wider your margin for error in case you miss the brainstem itself.

Stillnotsure, would you concur with my synopsis?

It is nice to meet a fellow gun enthusiast. I agree completely. And now I understand your responses to other posts of mine. Being well versed in guns, ballistics, and western medicine, I am weary of people using a gun to ctb if they do not understand the physics and specifics. While this method is extremely successful, if you should fail, your life will forever be altered in ways you never thought imaginable. Just youtube face transplants. If you live in a country where black powder guns are your only option for a gun, don't do it. Using a gun to ctb is also making a statement of F the world and F everybody, now someone spend a small fortune to clean up my mess.

 

[TAW122]

Translation: The more powerful the gun, the wider your margin for error in case you miss the brainstem itself.

I think this is spot on. Also, for added measure, I chose seclusion and barricade (buys me time) as the longer it takes for them to find me, let alone access my body to try to 'save' me, the more likely I will succeed (if brainstem was intact, but the trauma, hydrostatic shock, and blood loss combined should be sufficient) in my attempt. Ideally, I would be long dead before they find me, let alone try to revive me.

Using a gun to ctb is also making a statement of F the world and F everybody, now someone spend a small fortune to clean up my mess.

This is pretty much also a small factor in my choosing of my method. I'm not going to go too far off tangent on giving my life story here (it's rather long and complex), but I will say most of my life sucked and at 28, I'm still more or less suffering abuse from society, just not overtly, but covertly. So giving the last statement to the vast majority of society (which includes the pro-lifers and the people who made my life hell), it's the best way to get vengeance without actually physically hurting anyone which is really cathartic to me. Plus, I also enjoyed firearms itself when I was a kid. However, my main reason is reliability and accessibility of this compared to other means as well as little to no discomfort (when done correctly).

I have studied the angle and aiming and also have watched gun suicides to desensitize myself to the aftermath and result of the suicide.

 

[johnny]

You are comparing apples to oranges....

Do you fear disfiguring yourself, leaving a mess for people to see and clean, or the slim chance of failure and being permanently disfigured? However this method has a high success rate with the proper caliber gun and angle to the brain. If not, choose the gun.

Do you fear being violently ill, an extended period of time in which to change your mind, the cost of N, but want a peaceful sleep and an intact corpse? Choose N.

Research both methods thoroughly before deciding.

I don't care at all about what my body would look like after. My only concern is making sure I end up dead and not failing

 

[creationisdeath]

I'd choose the firearm. Not only are you close to 100% lethality (if aimed correctly, ofcourse) it is also an extremely quick way to go out whereas N won't kill you instantly. I wish you luck whichever method you choose though.

Wouldn't you be 100% dead even if aimed totally wrong? You'll have a giant hole either way and will bleed out quickly I assume.

But a shotgun would be preferable of course if you can get one..

 

[creationisdeath]

If you have guts to pull the trigger (and I whimped out shooting myself with an AIR PISTOL), then the gun is viable. Takes balls though, I for sure couldn't do it.

That is sensible though since they won't kill you or would they?Just inflict massive trauma. I don't know much about guns.

 

[KadathianStr1d3r]

Pulling the trigger is hard yeah, but wanna know how to overcome that fear like I did? Let your mind drift to something unrelated for awhile and "accidently" let your finger get loose.
Why I know this? Because I was nearly successful had the gun not jammed on me and people nearly discovering what I was trying to do. Plan ahead, pretend your going shooting some bottles and just the pieces fall together.

 

[TAW122]

Pulling the trigger is hard yeah, but wanna know how to overcome that fear like I did? Let your mind drift to something unrelated for awhile and "accidently" let your finger get loose.
Why I know this? Because I was nearly successful had the gun not jammed on me and people nearly discovering what I was trying to do. Plan ahead, pretend your going shooting some bottles and just the pieces fall together.

I like this. This is something that I've thought about too when thinking about overcoming the survival instinct. While I did do a few dry runs with an unloaded gun, my subconscious KNOWS that it is unloaded so there is no survival instinct actively trying to resist me from dry firing. Though the same could not be said of an actual loaded gun. I believe the key is to somehow disassociate or "forget" (whether intentionally or unintentionally) that the gun is loaded and just "accidentally" let the finger slip and then BOOM it's done. CTB'd.

 

[Pulpit2018]

Both options valid.Take whichever is easier/safer/cheaper to obtain.

 

[Rsuicidal]

If you have guts to pull the trigger (and I whimped out shooting myself with an AIR PISTOL), then the gun is viable. Takes balls though, I for sure couldn't do it.

Is it possible to ctb with airsoft??

 

[Retched]

It may be apples to oranges in comparison before I account for survival instinct.... it's come out of my mouth 'if I had a gun, I would not be here' and same goes for N... so fast forward, I have a gun and cannot bring myself to use it. It's an awful feeling. There it is! Right in front of my face but I cannot pull the trigger.

I wonder if I order N it would be the same? That my si is that strong? I haven't ordered N yet, still pondering this life or death question. I am so done but such a coward right now.

 

[johnny]

It may be apples to oranges in comparison before I account for survival instinct.... it's come out of my mouth 'if I had a gun, I would not be here' and same goes for N... so fast forward, I have a gun and cannot bring myself to use it. It's an awful feeling. There it is! Right in front of my face but I cannot pull the trigger.

I wonder if I order N it would be the same? That my si is that strong? I haven't ordered N yet, still pondering this life or death question. I am so done but such a coward right now.

Yea, that feeling sucks.

 

[Smashingairwaves]

A gun would be more definite. Also probably easier to obtain, depending on where you live

 

[TAW122]

A gun would be more definite. Also probably easier to obtain, depending on where you live

Yes, this is very true. Fortunately for me since I live in a state that is pretty permissive about guns and not super stringent like CA, NY, IL, MA, MD, etc. thus I am able to obtain a firearm without too much of a hassle.

 

[johnny]

It may be apples to oranges in comparison before I account for survival instinct.... it's come out of my mouth 'if I had a gun, I would not be here' and same goes for N... so fast forward, I have a gun and cannot bring myself to use it. It's an awful feeling. There it is! Right in front of my face but I cannot pull the trigger.

I wonder if I order N it would be the same? That my si is that strong? I haven't ordered N yet, still pondering this life or death question. I am so done but such a coward right now.

I recently went to a gun range for the first time. While I was shooting I really felt the how powerful the gun was. The kick, the loud bang, how instantly the target is hit. I felt hopeless, like, would I really have the balls to put this thing in my mouth and pull the trigger?

My main concern with the gun is somehow fumbling like an idiot and shooting too soon, so i just end up horrifically injured instead of dead

 

[Retched]

I recently went to a gun range for the first time. While I was shooting I really felt the how powerful the gun was. The kick, the loud bang, how instantly the target is hit. I felt hopeless, like, would I really have the balls to put this thing in my mouth and pull the trigger?

My main concern with the gun is somehow fumbling like an idiot and shooting too soon, so i just end up horrifically injured instead of dead

Right? And then there's all those people who don't think twice about it....

 

[TAW122]

My main concern with the gun is somehow fumbling like an idiot and shooting too soon, so i just end up horrifically injured instead of dead

In order to prevent this, I would recommend keeping the finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire. First, make sure you have your gun in the right position. Then once you have it correctly positioned, carefully put your finger on the trigger and do NOT try to anticipate the recoil/bang. When you carefully squeeze the trigger, just know that you won't hear the sound or feel the recoil as the bullet will travel too fast to the point where you will be dead/unconscious before your nervous system and brain can register the sound/recoil.

 

[johnny]

In order to prevent this, I would recommend keeping the finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire. First, make sure you have your gun in the right position. Then once you have it correctly positioned, carefully put your finger on the trigger and do NOT try to anticipate the recoil/bang. When you carefully squeeze the trigger, just know that you won't hear the sound or feel the recoil as the bullet will travel too fast to the point where you will be dead/unconscious before your nervous system and brain can register the sound/recoil.

Yea I know all about trigger discipline and all that, just worried i'll still screw it up somehow

 

[Retched]

Yea I know all about trigger discipline and all that, just worried i'll still screw it up somehow

You're not alone there....I feel totally the same. And do not research failures. It will put you off even more.

 

[johnny]

You're not alone there....I feel totally the same. And do not research failures. It will put you off even more.

True but all the failure pics I've seen are from aiming under the chin. Are there any failure pics where they just fucked it up somehow besides aiming under the chin?

 

[johnny]

A gun would be more definite. Also probably easier to obtain, depending on where you live

so you think a gun has a better chance of death?

 

[Smashingairwaves]

so you think a gun has a better chance of death?

Yes. I feel there is less of a chance of failing

 

[bigj75]

Is it possible to ctb with airsoft??

 

[Retched]

True but all the failure pics I've seen are from aiming under the chin. Are there any failure pics where they just fucked it up somehow besides aiming under the chin?

I don't think they are as prevalent or posted/talked about. But yes. The under the chin ones are terrifying.

 

[Rsuicidal]

Yea I never said the gene pool would miss me here bud

 

[KadathianStr1d3r]

I like this. This is something that I've thought about too when thinking about overcoming the survival instinct. While I did do a few dry runs with an unloaded gun, my subconscious KNOWS that it is unloaded so there is no survival instinct actively trying to resist me from dry firing. Though the same could not be said of an actual loaded gun. I believe the key is to somehow disassociate or "forget" (whether intentionally or unintentionally) that the gun is loaded and just "accidentally" let the finger slip and then BOOM it's done. CTB'd.

Indeed mate.