Method Fentanyl - Questions & Discussion

[justwannadip]

I'd like to preface this by asking that those who make arguments on this be knowledgable about the subject, rather than reiterating what other people have said and the common conceptions of this method. I'm hoping to get advice from users of street fent, dark net fent, or people who have researched the fent method, understand its pharmacokinetics and/or have delved into the scientific literature of fent OD's. If anyone is like me and seeking more information, and your question isn't covered here, feel free to ask and hopefully someone can provide some information.

———

QUESTIONS

I understand that there is rhetoric on here that the fent method is not reliable enough. I can imagine that its hard to tell how much fent you're really getting. Is there a way to test for this? As far as I know, you can get your drugs tested but they only show the presence of fent correct? Is there a service that breaks down how much fent is in a sample?

I also don't see how this would be much of an issue if you take enough of it. What's a generally reliable dose that will kill you (including factors like varying concentrations of fent)?

Is the DNM (dark net market) a more reliable source for fent in terms of quality and reliability?

I also know that they've been adding 'tranq' or xylazine to fent, but I don't see how that is a bad thing for me since I'm trying to ctb with it. Is there any added compound I should be worried about that would affect peacefulness and reliability of ctb?

As a non-drug user, how difficult is it to inject or shoot up? Would you recommend intravenous, subcutaneous, or intramuscular, or maybe patches? I know intravenous is the fastest, but I worry about missing the vein (how difficult is it?) or not pushing all of the substance needed before passing out.

What is the usual time it takes from administrating F to passing out/being unaware? (If known, including amounts or dosage would be helpful)

Overall, howpeaceful would you say this method is? What are the possible effects of a failed OD?

———

Thank you for reading this far. So those are my main questions regarding F as a method, and I hope this thread can help others that are curious about this method. Again, I'm aware of what has been said on the forum about F, but I'm hoping that those knowledgable on the subject can clarify things. I have SN, but I don't see it as peaceful, and the time it takes until you become unconscious is especially worrisome as I don't trust myself to not call for help if I panic. Nitrogen/inert gas setup is seeming increasingly unlikely as the time, skill, and cost of it seems too much for me atm. I may be forced to attempt with SN if F isn't a good option.

I appreciate you all, and hope there can be some conversation generated on a topic that could use more attention.

 

[NearlyIrrelevantCake]

AFAIK, there's no service that tests how much of a given compound is in a sample. I've used both online and in-person drug-checking services [as well as researched ones I did not use] and they all only test for what compounds are in the sample and not how much.

 

[justwannadip]

AFAIK, there's no service that tests how much of a given compound is in a sample. I've used both online and in-person drug-checking services [as well as researched ones I did not use] and they all only test for what compounds are in the sample and not how much.

Yes that's what I've heard. If you have experience, what's your thoughts on the fent on the market these days? Have you considered this method?

 

[NearlyIrrelevantCake]

Yes that's what I've heard. If you have experience, what's your thoughts on the fent on the market these days? Have you considered this method?

I have considered it; if I could get fent, I would attempt to CTB in a heartbeat.

But I've been ripped off by both homeless folks and Telegram scammers trying to buy it.

 

[never mind me]

When I was a lot youger I used fentanyl a few times for recreational purposes. I had it as a solution in a nasal spray. According to my knowledge it had been prepared as a solution of fentanyl extracted from fentanyl patches that are prescribed as medication for people with severe pain. 200 mikrogram were quite sedating with little opoid tolerance. Breathing became markedly less frequent. Friends of mine who had even less experience with opoids reported being afraid of falling asleep and dying after 200 mikrogram of fentanyl. Although they might have been overly anxious. A friend of a friend actually overdosed by accident using fentanyl.
To make fentanyl overdose a reliable method you must:
a) know what you get. Your best bet would probably be getting the original medical fentanyl patches. There at least you know exactly what's in there. You must then either extract the fentanyl (unfortunately I don't know how to do this so I can't give any recommendation) and take enough of it at once to kill you. Or else you need several fentanyl patches which you all put on your skin at once, so that the amount released within a relatively short time frame (like 20 minutes) is enough to kill you. The dosage of the fentanyl patches refers to what gets into your skin within 1 hour of having the patch on your skin.
b) have enough time without being found. The antidote naloxon is readily available, so if you are found before being dead it is very likely that you will not succeed ctb with fentanyl.
I looked up a study about the toxicity of fentanyl: https://www.mdpi.com/2305-6304/12/10/690
As with opoid overdoses in general additionally taking benzodiazepines will increase your chances of success.

 

[justwannadip]

I have considered it; if I could get fent, I would attempt to CTB in a heartbeat.

But I've been ripped off by both homeless folks and Telegram scammers trying to buy it.

Have you considered the DNM?

 

[justwannadip]

Thanks for your detailed response and sharing your personal experience. To my knowledge 200mcg is around the max bolus dose that is given to patients in the ER that require intense pain relief (read that through anecdotal reddit accounts). From what I've read so far, 2,000 mcg is the lethal dose of fentanyl although it can still definitely kill with less, 2k is more of a guarantee for ppl with no tolerance it seems. I'm not sure how I'd get the medical patches they use, wouldn't I have to get that through the DNM? Do dealers sell fent by itself or do you have to ask for heroin and hope its laced? What was your level of sedation like? How did you feel? The part about your friends being worried they'd fall asleep and die on 200 mcg is a bit worrying cus I thought that fent would take the anxiety away. Maybe the dose has to be higher for that to happen idk. Thanks for providing a link, I'll check it out and report back. As for your last point, I do have klonopin so I could combine them.

 

[VoidBlessed]

I'm weighing this option too, since I've tried hanging upwards of a hundred times now and it only every hurts a lot, I never pass out. I've never been a hard drug user though so I have no idea how to even locate a dealer, let alone test it.

 

[justwannadip]

I'm weighing this option too, since I've tried hanging upwards of a hundred times now and it only every hurts a lot, I never pass out. I've never been a hard drug user though so I have no idea how to even locate a dealer, let alone test it.

There's guides on accessing the dark net markets here. I've been told that if you hang around supervised injection sites and rehab clinics, there's usually a dealer that will frequent there. Honestly it seems too daunting for me. You can look up drug checking services in your area to test your drugs.

 

[finishLana]

F can be replaced with a nitazene and put in an acid resistant enteric capsules. (I thanking 2 layers of enteric capsules) Taking a sedative before the enteric capsules is a good idea, AE, sleeping pill and maybe anti-anxiety pill. That way opioid passes your stomach avoiding nausea and releases in a small intestine while you are asleep. The most important part is to avoid complications and vomiting but if the capsules pass the stomach it's a ctb if the dose is okay.

I read about one person here who ctbed by placing sn in enteric capsules and it seems like a more peaceful experience, as they didn't experience any pain apart from small headache. Especially if you take a sedative before enteric capsules I think it's a good way to avoid unpleasant effects.

 

[justwannadip]

F can be replaced with a nitazene and put in an acid resistant enteric capsules. (I thanking 2 layers of enteric capsules) Taking a sedative before the enteric capsules is a good idea, AE, sleeping pill and maybe anti-anxiety pill. That way opioid passes your stomach avoiding nausea and releases in a small intestine while you are asleep. The most important part is to avoid complications and vomiting but if the capsules pass the stomach it's a ctb if the dose is okay.

I read about one person here who ctbed by placing sn in enteric capsules and it seems like a more peaceful experience, as they didn't experience any pain apart from small headache. Especially if you take a sedative before enteric capsules I think it's a good way to avoid unpleasant effects.

What's the benefit of putting it in a capsule as opposed to injecting or intranasal? Wouldn't capsules take longer? There doesn't seem to be any research on capsules for either fentanyl or SN. Nausea as a side effect of fentanyl is related to its effect on the brain and not the stomach. I'm more curious about the idea of enteric capsules with SN, as that could be something that does reduce vomiting since it would bypass the stomach. Methemoglobinemia could still potentially cause nausea through hypoxia though. If people were brave enough to try sn capsules it would be interesting to see how it affects their symptoms. Thanks for the response.

 

[finishLana]

What's the benefit of putting it in a capsule as opposed to injecting or intranasal? Wouldn't capsules take longer? There doesn't seem to be any research on capsules for either fentanyl or SN. Nausea as a side effect of fentanyl is related to its effect on the brain and not the stomach. I'm more curious about the idea of enteric capsules with SN, as that could be something that does reduce vomiting since it would bypass the stomach. Methemoglobinemia could still potentially cause nausea through hypoxia though. If people were brave enough to try sn capsules it would be interesting to see how it affects their symptoms. Thanks for the response.

To me capsules are better for avoiding any unpleasant sensations, even snorting can burn and it might get you unpredictably high, as well as injection can cause a rush but I personally not a pro in injecting thus capsules simply sound more reasonable and easy.

Nausea is a reaction of the body to a high dose of opioid, which is likely to happen if you consume via anything other than enteric capsules as they will only release in a small intestine and can't be vomited.

Yes, enteric capsules release in about 1-2h after intake and that's why I recommend to take a sedative prior, so it all happens while asleep.

 

[justwannadip]

Has anyone injected or shot up before? How difficult is it to administer intravenously?

 

[justwannadip]

Has anyone injected or shot up before? How difficult is it to administer intravenously?

And is using a drug checking service to test purity, and having no tolerance to opioids enough to ensure reliability? What other factors or variables are there that I should be worried about?

 

[Rhizomorph1]

AFAIK, there's no service that tests how much of a given compound is in a sample. I've used both online and in-person drug-checking services [as well as researched ones I did not use] and they all only test for what compounds are in the sample and not how much.

Gas chromatography has confirmatory testing and can detect parts up to a very precise amount.

Infrared spectroscopy has a 5-10% error range generally speaking and can give estimates within this range.

If the drug checking services you're accessing don't divulge this information, it is not because they are unable; some just have reductive policies.

I was a drug checking technician and we were always told to avoid telling clients specific percentages unless they explicitly requested, in which case we could tell them "your sample is around 10-20% of [X drug], or "your sample is around 1 part fentanyl, and 2 parts inert sugars like mannitol" for example.

The only services that won't be able to give percentage estimates are services that rely only on reagents; immunoassay testing strips or the liquid drops you can take home.

And is using a drug checking service to test purity, and having no tolerance to opioids enough to ensure reliability? What other factors or variables are there that I should be worried about?

Reliability should be considered moderate across the board, no matter what route of administration, or safeguards in place (e.g., antiemetics, etc.)

Opioids are notorious nauseants far more so than SN and individual tolerances vary massively.

The odds of toxic respiratory depression that is not fatal is considerable meaning traumatic brain injury is equally, if not more likely than dying.

ROAs that bypass the stomach (injecting, rectal) will be more reliable, but this is only up to a certain point. It's still not a fully reliable method.

Controlling for pharmacokinetics (absorption-excretion) is a moot point when the unreliable pharmacodynamic profile of the drug is uncontrollable and unpredictable.

 

[justwannadip]

Gas chromatography has confirmatory testing and can detect parts up to a very precise amount.

Infrared spectroscopy has a 5-10% error range generally speaking and can give estimates within this range.

If the drug checking services you're accessing don't divulge this information, it is not because they are unable; some just have reductive policies.

I was a drug checking technician and we were always told to avoid telling clients specific percentages unless they explicitly requested, in which case we could tell them "your sample is around 10-20% of [X drug], or "your sample is around 1 part fentanyl, and 2 parts inert sugars like mannitol" for example.

The only services that won't be able to give percentage estimates are services that rely only on reagents; immunoassay testing strips or the liquid drops you can take home.

Reliability should be considered moderate across the board, no matter what route of administration, or safeguards in place (e.g., antiemetics, etc.)

Opioids are notorious nauseants far more so than SN and individual tolerances vary massively.

The odds of toxic respiratory depression that is not fatal is considerable meaning traumatic brain injury is equally, if not more likely than dying.

ROAs that bypass the stomach (injecting, rectal) will be more reliable, but this is only up to a certain point. It's still not a fully reliable method.

Controlling for pharmacokinetics (absorption-excretion) is a moot point when the unreliable pharmacodynamic profile of the drug is uncontrollable and unpredictable.

I'm only considering this method because it has a faster time to loss of consciousness. SN is too long for me at 15+ mins, it leaves too much time to call for help. I feel stuck. I have SN and klonopin, but klonopin doesn't knock u unconscious it just makes u sleepy. This method doesn't seem to be reliable even if I test for purity and inject a large amount with no tolerance to opioids. I thought if I eliminated the variables that it would be reliable :/

 

[Rhizomorph1]

I'm only considering this method because it has a faster time to loss of consciousness. SN is too long for me at 15+ mins, it leaves too much time to call for help. I feel stuck. I have SN and klonopin, but klonopin doesn't knock u unconscious it just makes u sleepy. This method doesn't seem to be reliable even if I test for purity and inject a large amount with no tolerance to opioids. I thought if I eliminated the variables that it would be reliable :/

Nah unfortunately the pharmacology dictates that opioids have a maximum/set reliability that is moderate. Controlling for those factors only boosts the reliability from low to moderate.

As long as the increased risk of survival & permanent injury is worthwhile over the 15+ minute loss of consciousness for SN, it could be a better option for what you're looking for.

Most people I think would opt for improved reliability + far less risk of permanent injury (currently injury is virtually unheard of in the data we have, though not impossible for SN) over the marginal improvement to the time till loss of consciousness, I would gather.

I stand by the fact that for the vast majority of people SN will be the better choice between the two.

If you choose otherwise, that is your choice so long as your decision is informed on all the risks + benefits.

 

[justwannadip]

Nah unfortunately the pharmacology dictates that opioids have a maximum/set reliability that is moderate. Controlling for those factors only boosts the reliability from low to moderate.

As long as the increased risk of survival & permanent injury is worthwhile over the 15+ minute loss of consciousness for SN, it could be a better option for what you're looking for.

Most people I think would opt for improved reliability + far less risk of permanent injury (currently injury is virtually unheard of in the data we have, though not impossible for SN) over the marginal improvement to the time till loss of consciousness, I would gather.

I stand by the fact that for the vast majority of people SN will be the better choice between the two.

If you choose otherwise, that is your choice so long as your decision is informed on all the risks + benefits.

Thanks for providing that info and letting me know about the risks of opioids. what do you think about nitrogen as a method?

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Thanks for providing that info and letting me know about the risks of opioids. what do you think about nitrogen as a method?

Nitrogen with a properly fitted exit bag will work great. Just be sure to do your research and check out the PPH section on it.

 

[fallingasl33p]

Does anyone know what dose would be required to CTB using transdermal patch vs pills vs injection. Or know of some research/case studies that could point to some answers?

When I was a lot youger I used fentanyl a few times for recreational purposes. I had it as a solution in a nasal spray. According to my knowledge it had been prepared as a solution of fentanyl extracted from fentanyl patches that are prescribed as medication for people with severe pain. 200 mikrogram were quite sedating with little opoid tolerance. Breathing became markedly less frequent. Friends of mine who had even less experience with opoids reported being afraid of falling asleep and dying after 200 mikrogram of fentanyl. Although they might have been overly anxious. A friend of a friend actually overdosed by accident using fentanyl.
To make fentanyl overdose a reliable method you must:
a) know what you get. Your best bet would probably be getting the original medical fentanyl patches. There at least you know exactly what's in there. You must then either extract the fentanyl (unfortunately I don't know how to do this so I can't give any recommendation) and take enough of it at once to kill you. Or else you need several fentanyl patches which you all put on your skin at once, so that the amount released within a relatively short time frame (like 20 minutes) is enough to kill you. The dosage of the fentanyl patches refers to what gets into your skin within 1 hour of having the patch on your skin.
b) have enough time without being found. The antidote naloxon is readily available, so if you are found before being dead it is very likely that you will not succeed ctb with fentanyl.
I looked up a study about the toxicity of fentanyl: https://www.mdpi.com/2305-6304/12/10/690
As with opoid overdoses in general additionally taking benzodiazepines will increase your chances of success.

How many patches/ total dose you think?

 

[Peter Skellern]

Does anyone know what dose would be required to CTB using transdermal patch vs pills vs injection. Or know of some research/case studies that could point to some answers?

How many patches/ total dose you think?

Bounce

 

[fallingasl33p]

Nobody's replied yet so I did a little reading. Wish I had access to the full articles on pubmed or wherever but purely based on some abstracts lethal doses vary significantly.
- Female aged 42 years with 11 x 100 µg patches
- Female aged 46 years with 34 x mixed dose patches
- Female aged 78 years with 10 x 100 µg patches
- Male aged 79 years with 10 x 75 µg patches
- Female aged 76 years with 15 x 75 µg patches
- Female aged 40-50 years with 7 x 25 µg patches
Was also reading about this method being slow due to the patches relying on the mechanism of the drug moving down a concentration gradient into the skin. So initially absorption is quite high but as its presence in the blood increases the absorption slows as serum fentanyl levels start to approach an equilibrium. So people find other ways to achieve fast absorption. It won't let me upload the image of the chart but it can be found in the article "Atypical Fentanyl Transdermal Patch Consumption and Fatalities: Case Report and Literature Review". These methods don't appear to be necessary for CTB though based on the other literature though. I can't offer much information about the cases since I'm not sure how to access full articles without some sort of scientific journal subscription.

 

[Peter Skellern]

Nobody's replied yet so I did a little reading. Wish I had access to the full articles on pubmed or wherever but purely based on some abstracts lethal doses vary significantly.
- Female aged 42 years with 11 x 100 µg patches
- Female aged 46 years with 34 x mixed dose patches
- Female aged 78 years with 10 x 100 µg patches
- Male aged 79 years with 10 x 75 µg patches
- Female aged 76 years with 15 x 75 µg patches
- Female aged 40-50 years with 7 x 25 µg patches
Was also reading about this method being slow due to the patches relying on the mechanism of the drug moving down a concentration gradient into the skin. So initially absorption is quite high but as its presence in the blood increases the absorption slows as serum fentanyl levels start to approach an equilibrium. So people find other ways to achieve fast absorption. It won't let me upload the image of the chart but it can be found in the article "Atypical Fentanyl Transdermal Patch Consumption and Fatalities: Case Report and Literature Review". These methods don't appear to be necessary for CTB though based on the other literature though. I can't offer much information about the cases since I'm not sure how to access full articles without some sort of scientific journal subscription.

I think it's certainly feasible and has happened. Access to the patches is though a discouraging factor.

 

[fallingasl33p]

I think it's certainly feasible and has happened. Access to the patches is though a discouraging factor.

Yeah I know. Wish there was more discussion out there about this method though or maybe I'm just not seeing it. I'm too pussy for a lot of other methods because once the SI kicks in I just break down hyperventilating in primal terror LOL. So I've always idealised a method as close enough to just falling asleep as possible…

 

[Peter Skellern]

Yeah I know. Wish there was more discussion out there about this method though or maybe I'm just not seeing it. I'm too pussy for a lot of other methods because once the SI kicks in I just break down hyperventilating in primal terror LOL. So I've always idealised a method as close enough to just falling asleep as possible…

And there's totally nothing wrong with that. It's most people ideal, certainly mine. Realistically, a dozen or so patches would almost certainly do it - you'd think.

I'm also currently gradually (it's not a simple process) getting onto the DarkWeb. You looked on there re obtaining these?

 

[never mind me]

Gas chromatography has confirmatory testing and can detect parts up to a very precise amount.

Infrared spectroscopy has a 5-10% error range generally speaking and can give estimates within this range.

If the drug checking services you're accessing don't divulge this information, it is not because they are unable; some just have reductive policies.

I was a drug checking technician and we were always told to avoid telling clients specific percentages unless they explicitly requested, in which case we could tell them "your sample is around 10-20% of [X drug], or "your sample is around 1 part fentanyl, and 2 parts inert sugars like mannitol" for example.

The only services that won't be able to give percentage estimates are services that rely only on reagents; immunoassay testing strips or the liquid drops you can take home.

Reliability should be considered moderate across the board, no matter what route of administration, or safeguards in place (e.g., antiemetics, etc.)

Opioids are notorious nauseants far more so than SN and individual tolerances vary massively.

The odds of toxic respiratory depression that is not fatal is considerable meaning traumatic brain injury is equally, if not more likely than dying.

ROAs that bypass the stomach (injecting, rectal) will be more reliable, but this is only up to a certain point. It's still not a fully reliable method.

Controlling for pharmacokinetics (absorption-excretion) is a moot point when the unreliable pharmacodynamic profile of the drug is uncontrollable and unpredictable.

Gas chromatography has confirmatory testing and can detect parts up to a very precise amount.

Infrared spectroscopy has a 5-10% error range generally speaking and can give estimates within this range.

If the drug checking services you're accessing don't divulge this information, it is not because they are unable; some just have reductive policies.

I was a drug checking technician and we were always told to avoid telling clients specific percentages unless they explicitly requested, in which case we could tell them "your sample is around 10-20% of [X drug], or "your sample is around 1 part fentanyl, and 2 parts inert sugars like mannitol" for example.

The only services that won't be able to give percentage estimates are services that rely only on reagents; immunoassay testing strips or the liquid drops you can take home.

Reliability should be considered moderate across the board, no matter what route of administration, or safeguards in place (e.g., antiemetics, etc.)

Opioids are notorious nauseants far more so than SN and individual tolerances vary massively.

The odds of toxic respiratory depression that is not fatal is considerable meaning traumatic brain injury is equally, if not more likely than dying.

ROAs that bypass the stomach (injecting, rectal) will be more reliable, but this is only up to a certain point. It's still not a fully reliable method.

Controlling for pharmacokinetics (absorption-excretion) is a moot point when the unreliable pharmacodynamic profile of the drug is uncontrollable and unpredictable.

I'm confused about your claim regardig toxic respiratory depression without death. If you are not disturbed this is quite unlikely. Either your automatic breathing stops or it doesn't. In order to survive respiratory depression without anyone intervening you would need a dosage of opoids high enough you stop breathing long enough for brain damage to happen, but at the same time low enough you start breathing again on your own within minutes. Seems highly unlikely.
Obviously you shouldn't take opoids orally for ctb. Have a solution for fentanyl you can spray in your nose or if you just have the patches it would be most efficient to put them in your mouth for sublingual administration.
If you are able to do i.v. injection it may still be worthwile to just get heroine and applicate with injection.

 

[klantedklaw]

I'd like to preface this by asking that those who make arguments on this be knowledgable about the subject, rather than reiterating what other people have said and the common conceptions of this method. I'm hoping to get advice from users of street fent, dark net fent, or people who have researched the fent method, understand its pharmacokinetics and/or have delved into the scientific literature of fent OD's. If anyone is like me and seeking more information, and your question isn't covered here, feel free to ask and hopefully someone can provide some information.

———

QUESTIONS

I understand that there is rhetoric on here that the fent method is not reliable enough. I can imagine that its hard to tell how much fent you're really getting. Is there a way to test for this? As far as I know, you can get your drugs tested but they only show the presence of fent correct? Is there a service that breaks down how much fent is in a sample?

who gives a fuck, just take 10x the lethal limit and you'll be fine

I also don't see how this would be much of an issue if you take enough of it. What's a generally reliable dose that will kill you (including factors like varying concentrations of fent)?

10mg should do the job, take more if you want

Is the DNM (dark net market) a more reliable source for fent in terms of quality and reliability?

most DNM's ban the sale of fentanyl - your best bet is heroin. Heroin is readily available, pick vendors that have high ratings and you should be good. Buying off the street is unsafe and there is no way of verifying quality.

I also know that they've been adding 'tranq' or xylazine to fent, but I don't see how that is a bad thing for me since I'm trying to ctb with it. Is there any added compound I should be worried about that would affect peacefulness and reliability of ctb?

no, fillers don't really do much - you shouldn't be worrying about them at such high doses

As a non-drug user, how difficult is it to inject or shoot up? Would you recommend intravenous, subcutaneous, or intramuscular, or maybe patches? I know intravenous is the fastest, but I worry about missing the vein (how difficult is it?) or not pushing all of the substance needed before passing out.

IV is your only real option, tmax with subq and IM are too slow, you could still OD but you're adding a lot of unpredictability into the mix. Maybe practice a few days before your attempt w self administering IV injections.

What is the usual time it takes from administrating F to passing out/being unaware? (If known, including amounts or dosage would be helpful)

with IV in the realm of 0.5 - 2 minutes, probably within 30 seconds

Overall, howpeaceful would you say this method is? What are the possible effects of a failed OD?

10/10 imo

if you fail your attempt you're probably going to have brain damage, fent/ heroin will cause respiratory depression (and subsequently hypoxia). Just 10 seconds of no oxygen in the brain will mess you up. TBH I wouldn't worry about this, as long as your taking a large dose you'll be fine

———

Thank you for reading this far. So those are my main questions regarding F as a method, and I hope this thread can help others that are curious about this method. Again, I'm aware of what has been said on the forum about F, but I'm hoping that those knowledgable on the subject can clarify things. I have SN, but I don't see it as peaceful, and the time it takes until you become unconscious is especially worrisome as I don't trust myself to not call for help if I panic. Nitrogen/inert gas setup is seeming increasingly unlikely as the time, skill, and cost of it seems too much for me atm. I may be forced to attempt with SN if F isn't a good option.

I appreciate you all, and hope there can be some conversation generated on a topic that could use more attention.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

I'm confused about your claim regardig toxic respiratory depression without death. If you are not disturbed this is quite unlikely. Either your automatic breathing stops or it doesn't. In order to survive respiratory depression without anyone intervening you would need a dosage of opoids high enough you stop breathing long enough for brain damage to happen, but at the same time low enough you start breathing again on your own within minutes. Seems highly unlikely.
Obviously you shouldn't take opoids orally for ctb. Have a solution for fentanyl you can spray in your nose or if you just have the patches it would be most efficient to put them in your mouth for sublingual administration.
If you are able to do i.v. injection it may still be worthwile to just get heroine and applicate with injection.

There is a reasonable dose (or really pharmacodynamic) window where the binding activity in the medulla (part of the brain stem) is strong enough to cause shallow, intermittent breathing – enough to cause brain damage to non-critical areas such as those responsible for mood and cognition – without suspending breathing enough to be fatal. The brain will always prioritize oxygen in the brain stem when it is deficient.

I.e., the brain stem will still receive enough oxygen to retain vital function. While plenty of toxicity and damage can occur to other areas of the brain. Anytime oxygen goes below a certain % in the blood. It's more of a quantifiable curve than a categorical difference: safe (high blood oxygen %) -> brain damage + survival (medium/low blood %) -> fatal (low/non-existent blood oxygen %)

So respectfully: no. the statement "either your automatic breathing stops or it doesn't" is not true. There's 100 shades of grey in between full respiratory rate and 0 breathing whatsoever for a significant time period. the important variables include: how deep each breath is, how much time is between each breath, how resilient is the brain genetically programmed to drugs or the opponent process of norepinephrine release which can stimulate breathing? Etc.

Respiratory depression is not an one-off switch as you say. nor is it even always toxic. Alcohol (in low doses) or anesthesia both cause non-fatal and non-toxic respiratory depression because it only marginally slows breathing (though alcohol is toxic through other, more direct pathways, but it doesn't cause respiratory toxicity in low doses).

The respiratory toxicity is quantifiable, measurable by the impact of a drug on areas of the brain responsible for respiratory rate. Usually the brain stem/medulla.

Likewise, even with higher degrees of respiratory depression, the brain has evolutionary opponent processes. When the brain stops breathing for long enough, the brain will flood with norepinephrine, which can temporarily "excite" the sympathetic nervous system and cause temporary bouts of breathing. Again, enough to sustain the brain stem, but with sufficient periods of extremely shallow or non-breathing between these bouts, brain damage can still occur. Again, the time and "strength" (depth of breath; strength of muscle contractions) component is also vital here.

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TL;DR: regardless of how it works or our comprehension of the pharmacology, there are mountains of toxicology & coroners report data showing just how common opioid-induced traumatic brain injuries (TBIs) are. Possibly more common than actual deaths. I've personally worked with TBI populations and seen the outcomes of this myself, alongside reading plenty of the data.

Opioid-induced TBI is extremely commonplace. We are just more familiar with the overdose deaths as opposed to the TBIs because they are all over the news, whereas people with TBIs are just regarded as "junkies" or "burnouts" rather than real 3-dimensional humans with higher proportions of brain injuries.

Drug-related stigma sucks and half the time makes neurotypical people stupider than those with drug-induced intellegence-impacting TBIs, but I digress I'm getting off topic.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

who gives a fuck, just take 10x the lethal limit and you'll be fine

Over-confident responses like these always beg important questions:

1. How do you know the drug is concentrated enough for 10x to be the proper amount? At least 5-10% of the illicit drug supply includes massive outliers in terms of concentration. Virtually none are diverted from pharmaceutical or medical industries.

2. How do we bypass vomiting?

2.1 If vomiting is prevented via injection as an ROA, what is the person's technique? If they miss or bypass a vein, have we accounted for the pharmacokinetics of intramuscular or subcutaneous injection?

2.2 If vomiting is prevented via rectal ROA, are they familiar with how far to deposit the substance? Just a few cm difference can be the difference between 15% bioavailability and 70% bioavailability.

3. If they bypass vomiting via other methods such as insufflation, are they aware of the significantly smaller bioavailability, the slower absorption which can increase risk of injury opposed to dying, or the non-linear absorption curve due to concentration/drying of mucous, etc. in the nasal passage?

4. What is their tolerance (genetic, acute, learned, physiological, etc; there are many different types). Some rare users are hyper-tolerant to even huge doses of opioids.

Even accounting for all these variables with spectrometry testing, prior use history, medical knowledge, etc. we know from aggregate statistics and base rates that this method is only moderately reliable.

Based on these factors and the data on opioid toxicity combined, is it really practical to tell people to just use 10x the dose and not worry about the mountains of risks and data suggesting it's not that simple? I mean this respectfully, but also I choose to be direct because we are giving advice on a pretty serious topic after all

If people really want an easy, reliable, "peaceful pill", this is not the method. What they need is meto + SN.

Everything else in this "guide" has been included so people know the risks and can make an informed decision that includes those very serious risks.

If people wish to accept the low-moderate reliability and the significant hoops they have to jump through to make it even moderately reliable, that's up to them. But we need to be honest that it's still not a great overall outlook.

 

[klantedklaw]

Over-confident responses like these always beg important questions:

1. How do you know the drug is concentrated enough for 10x to be the proper amount? At least 5-10% of the illicit drug supply includes massive outliers in terms of concentration. Virtually none are diverted from pharmaceutical or medical industries.

2. How do we bypass vomiting?

2.1 If vomiting is prevented via injection as an ROA, what is the person's technique? If they miss or bypass a vein, have we accounted for the pharmacokinetics of intramuscular or subcutaneous injection?

2.2 If vomiting is prevented via rectal ROA, are they familiar with how far to deposit the substance? Just a few cm difference can be the difference between 15% bioavailability and 70% bioavailability.

3. If they bypass vomiting via other methods such as insufflation, are they aware of the significantly smaller bioavailability, the slower absorption which can increase risk of injury opposed to dying, or the non-linear absorption curve due to concentration/drying of mucous, etc. in the nasal passage?

4. What is their tolerance (genetic, acute, learned, physiological, etc; there are many different types). Some rare users are hyper-tolerant to even huge doses of opioids.

Even accounting for all these variables with spectrometry testing, prior use history, medical knowledge, etc. we know from aggregate statistics and base rates that this method is only moderately reliable.

Based on these factors and the data on opioid toxicity combined, is it really practical to tell people to just use 10x the dose and not worry about the mountains of risks and data suggesting it's not that simple? I mean this respectfully, but also I choose to be direct because we are giving advice on a pretty serious topic after all

If people really want an easy, reliable, "peaceful pill", this is not the method. What they need is meto + SN.

Everything else in this "guide" has been included so people know the risks and can make an informed decision that includes those very serious risks.

If people wish to accept the low-moderate reliability and the significant hoops they have to jump through to make it even moderately reliable, that's up to them. But we need to be honest that it's still not a great overall outlook.

lmao what are you talking about, there is no vomiting - what are you gonna do eat opiates or shove them up your ass? Also lets be honest, virtually no one is going to survive 10 times the lethal dose of any opiate - you can easily make the same claim about SN, that there might be some "rare outliers" but somehow its ok to take SN but not opiates?

Buying from reputable DNM vendors with hundreds of customer reviews and testimonies virtually nullifies the risk of getting sold shitty product. Buying some mystery powder from a random crackhead in an alleyway is dangerous and unreliable. It's pretty much only low level street dealers who put filler into their product anyway, DNM vendors wouldn't have much of a business if they were doing things like that.

By your same logic how can you be sure that SN you're buying is real? It's not like suicidal people can leave a review to confirm that it was as described. SN isn't a product from pharmaceutical or medical industries either, its even more unregulated than Opiates - At least with illegal opiates there are market & social pressures which create accountability and carry ramifications for vendors. I doubt the unregistered factory in Xinjiang which produces a mystery powder and labels it as SN gives a singular fuck about the purity of their product - its not like they are held to any accountability anyway.

Unfortunately we live in an age where attaining SN for the average person is harder than obtaining opiates, suggesting that people just take meto + SN is super unrealistic today, maybe pre 2020 that this was the case but not anymore. Ordering SN is also arguably even more dangerous than ordering opiates from DNM's. There is a surplus of people on sasu receiving welfare visits and facing other problems associated with attempted importations from overseas SN sources - this isn't a problem with readily available domestic opiates in every single country.

People should always do their own research, never trust what anyone tells you online - every CTB method carries risks and a chance of failure, its up to the individual to asses their risk tolerance and make their own decisions - never let anyone tell you what to do