HelensNepenthe

HelensNepenthe

Thoughtful poster
Jan 17, 2019
835
CITATION
ACMT 2020 Annual Scientific Meeting Abstracts – New York, NY. J. Med. Toxicol. (2020). https://doi.org/10.1007/s13181-020-00759-7

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047. Survival from Severe Methemoglobinemia After Intentional Ingestion of Sodium Nitrite. Is This an Emerging Method Recommended for Suicide?

Background:
Deliberate self-poisoning with sodium nitrite is uncommon. There is limited literature reporting survival after potentially fatal concentrations of methemoglobinemia.

Methods: A 25-year-old man researched suicide methods on the internet and found a recommendation for sodium nitrite as a painless and potentially reversible form of suicide. The patient purchased 100 g and ingested 15 g. He immediately had second thoughts about the attempt and called an ambulance within 10 minutes of ingestion. On paramedic arrival, he was alert, deeply cyanotic and admitted to sodium nitrite ingestion. In the emergency department, 40 minutes post-ingestion, GCS = 4, he had ashen gray skin, pulse-oximetry saturation 60% on mask high-flow oxygen,pulse 180 bpm, and BP 91/45 mmHg. He was emergently intubated to facilitate oxygen delivery. Peri-intubation hypotension was treated with intravenous crystalloids, metaraminol, and norepinephrine.

Results: Initial VBG revealed a methemoglobin fraction of 88%, lactate 19 mmol/L, and bicarbonate 14 mmol/L. Three 70 mg doses of methyleneblue (1 mg/kg) were administered in the first hour post-presentation. Activated charcoal (50 g) was administered naso-gastrically. Methemoglobin fraction fell to 22% in the first hour and was 16% 2 hours after methylene blue treatment. Hemodynamics also improved: pulse 120 bpm, BP 126/73 mmHg with successful cessation of norepinephrine infusion. Methemoglobin fraction fell to 0.9% over 30 hours. No further methylene blue was administered. He was extubated the next day without complication and discharged home after psychiatric treatment on day 4

Conclusion: Intentional ingestion of sodium nitrite is currently an uncommon method of deliberate self-poisoning. However, it is an easily accessible and unregulated salt, used in the food industry. Rapid development of methemoglobinemia can result in death without prompt medical care. In this case, early notification of the poisoning by the patient and timely methylene blue administration rapidly reversed severe methemoglobinemia and prevented irreversible end-organ dysfunction and death.

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All of the information within this journal is already information we knew prior. Your survival rate if you call an emergency service once you've ingested SN will result in surviving. What I thought was interesting was reassurance (while remaining subjective based on each individual person) that there is no complications in recovery. The addition of the journal citing online internet search is concerning yet obvious.
 
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RileyTanaka

RileyTanaka

ill / failure
Mar 20, 2020
264
The addition of the journal citing online internet search is concerning yet obvious.
That is concerning. Do you think the subject of this study might have been on SS? I guess we can never know for sure.
 
Aliali1992

Aliali1992

We only live once..i hope
Jan 3, 2020
155
What worries me that on arrival he was alert. He called emergency 10 minutes after ingestion and it is not clear how long did it took to get there.
 
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ceelo

Experienced
May 18, 2020
298
What worries me that on arrival he was alert. He called emergency 10 minutes after ingestion and it is not clear how long did it took to get there.
he ingested 15g, the protocol is 25 is it not? also these cases where the person shits himself you have to take with a pinch of salt excuse the pun, if they have on real intention of dying they never do things properly, too much liquid, not enough salt, and who knows how much he really ingested? he must of told them it was 15 but again 1 you arent trustworthy in that state and 2 he didnt even follow protocol.
 
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Brick In The Wall

Brick In The Wall

2M Or Not 2B.
Oct 30, 2019
25,158
he ingested 15g, the protocol is 25 is it not?
15g was the old recommended dose in the PPH mid to late 2019. So that could atleast give us some sort of timeline in a sense.
What worries me that on arrival he was alert. He called emergency 10 minutes after ingestion and it is not clear how long did it took to get there.
Not everyone passes out immediately. I've seen more often than not that most people are out pretty quick. Around the 10 to 20 minute mark.
 
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ceelo

Experienced
May 18, 2020
298
15g was the old recommended dose in the PPH mid to late 2019. So that could atleast give us some sort of timeline in a sense.

Not everyone passes out immediately. I've seen more often than not that most people are out pretty quick. Around the 10 to 20 minute mark.
is there any good reason not to go higher for the sake of it? like 40g?
 
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Brick In The Wall

Brick In The Wall

2M Or Not 2B.
Oct 30, 2019
25,158
is there any good reason not to go higher for the sake of it? like 40g?
15G is plenty enough to kill you. I think the current sweet spot of 20-25g (depending on weight) will remain for a while. If you take too little it can be prolonged, but too much is also bad in that you'll vomit most of it out anyways. That's if you can even down that much to begin with.
 
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ceelo

Experienced
May 18, 2020
298
15G is plenty enough to kill you. I think the current sweet spot of 20-25g (depending on weight) will remain for a while. If you take too little it can be prolonged, but too much is also bad in that you'll vomit most of it out anyways. That's if you can even down that much to begin with.


pretty wild that ppl have died on 1g...
1590412744714
 
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autumnal

autumnal

Enlightened
Feb 4, 2020
1,950
is there any good reason not to go higher for the sake of it? like 40g?

I believe the higher the dose, the greater likelihood of vomiting. Doses as recommended in the PPH are already well and truly lethal, and strike a balance between that lethality and reducing vomit risk.
 
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Brick In The Wall

Brick In The Wall

2M Or Not 2B.
Oct 30, 2019
25,158
pretty wild that ppl have died on 1g...
View attachment 35702
Yes I remember that account. I think it took her around 8 hours to expire if I remember correctly. But SN is a highly toxic substance and yes even small doses can be fatal.
 
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Aliali1992

Aliali1992

We only live once..i hope
Jan 3, 2020
155
On the other hand..they say he knew SN from internet as a painless method but they never mention that it wasn't.. It could be confirmation bias what i am saying but the authors have of course a pro-life stance and if he was in pain they would absolutely mention it and if he wasn't in pain they will never mention that explicitly.
 
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Light&DarkDance

Light&DarkDance

Member
May 9, 2020
50
Can somebody please pm me source(s) of SN in Eastern Europe? Please...
 

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