Venting Extremely unpleasant governments worldwide have taken away our birthright

[Darkover]

Extremely unpleasant governments worldwide have taken away our birthright

The right to decided whether life is worth living or not on a individual basis
No one ever asked for existence here i expect most here would never choose to exist at all given how cruel life been to them
I would have preferred not to be brought in this world.
i've been suicidal for 20 years and would of left at age 18 but no governments worldwide have forced these awful life's on us
i just wish these machine came with a easy off switch since the only way to switch these machines off is to kill yourself requiring substance or tools
that have been made illegal keeping us trapped in a never ending cycle of suffering

payback gonna be sweat in this or the next life forcing people to live through life's they don't want and would never want i should do the opposite to all life and be done with this place once and for all

i hate being powerless and helpless in the face of adversity

 

[Forever Sleep]

Governments and our parents... Most aren't clamouring to off their children. In fact, most would fight tooth and claw to keep them alive- even against their own child's wishes.

I do completely understand your frustration and hatred even at our governments for denying us this. But, hypothetically, let's say they changed their minds. Now, they're only too pleased to start the culling. How do you think parents would react? Imagine the first ten 18 year olds who leave for university or work that morning and don't come home because, they've received assisted suicide without their parent's knowledge.

Firstly- do you think the parents would just accept it? Oh well, nevermind. It's what they wanted. We should accept that. Even the parents of people in their 40's won't accept it! Or- let's say part of the conditions of accepting an application for assisted suicide are that the families are informed. How many will support them do you think?

I get that people are frustrated, annoyed, angry but, I don't think it's even logical to believe Governments could bring this in- even if they wanted to. The opposition to it is way bigger than economics and MP's. It's likely the vast majority of our own families and friends.

Can you imagine multiple mothers of Joe Nihil? Can you imagine what she'd do if it was our government that (in her mind) enabled her son's death? These parents see it as murder if they believe their child to be vulnerable in some way- which they usually do. They usually affirm they were under the influence of mental illness.

I think the situation is far more complex than people make out and I don't think it has a simple solution until suicide is seen differently by people as a reasonable option. Which may never happen for those not untreatably ill... Sadly I reckon the majority of us are going to be stuck with DIY methods for the foreseeable future.

 

[Darkover]

Governments and our parents... Most aren't clamouring to off their children. In fact, most would fight tooth and claw to keep them alive- even against their own child's wishes.

I do completely understand your frustration and hatred even at our governments for denying us this. But, hypothetically, let's say they changed their minds. Now, they're only too pleased to start the culling. How do you think parents would react? Imagine the first ten 18 year olds who leave for university or work that morning and don't come home because, they've received assisted suicide without their parent's knowledge.

Firstly- do you think the parents would just accept it? Oh well, nevermind. It's what they wanted. We should accept that. Even the parents of people in their 40's won't accept it! Or- let's say part of the conditions of accepting an application for assisted suicide are that the families are informed. How many will support them do you think?

I get that people are frustrated, annoyed, angry but, I don't think it's even logical to believe Governments could bring this in- even if they wanted to. The opposition to it is way bigger than economics and MP's. It's likely the vast majority of our own families and friends.

Can you imagine multiple mothers of Joe Nihil? Can you imagine what she'd do if it was our government that (in her mind) enabled her son's death? These parents see it as murder if they believe their child to be vulnerable in some way- which they usually do. They usually affirm they were under the influence of mental illness.

I think the situation is far more complex than people make out and I don't think it has a simple solution until suicide is seen differently by people as a reasonable option. Which may never happen for those not untreatably ill... Sadly I reckon the majority of us are going to be stuck with DIY methods for the foreseeable future.

parents signed up for having the possibility of losing their child i have no sympathy for them if you don't want to lose a child don't take the risk of having one in the first place.

 

[Forever Sleep]

parents signed up for having the possibility of losing their child i have no sympathy for them if you don't want to lose a child don't take the risk of having one in the first place.

I agree but that wouldn't stop them protesting- probably rioting when the government starts offing their children. Do you think they would accept that as an excuse? Our Prime Minister saying: 'Well, you brought it on yourselves. We're going to keep killing your children if they ask us to.' Who do you think would keep voting for them? I just can't get my head around this ever happening unless things drastically changed in the world.

I think there's this (understandable) desire that things should be a certain way because it's logical. Put it this way- how many parents here would stand back and let their offspring receive assisted suicide? Or, not bother protesting afterwards if they weren't informed and they're now dead?

Just because something shouldn't happen, it doesn't mean it won't. In any case, I don't believe any government would be brave enough to do it in the first place- even if they wanted to.

Even the latest bill in the UK doesn't seem to be passing through with a huge majority. It is slowly passing through but it's dividing opinion. And, that's the most extreme cases. Terminally ill, 6 months to live. A 330 to 275 vote in favour. Do you seriously think a bill proposing the VAD of a healthy 18 year old would be approved? Seriously? Not intended to mock you. It's just a wish I don't see being connected to reality.

 

[Darkover]

I agree but that wouldn't stop them protesting- probably rioting when the government starts offing their children. Do you think they would accept that as an excuse? Our Prime Minister saying: 'Well, you brought it on yourselves. We're going to keep killing your children if they ask us to.' Who do you think would keep voting for them? I just can't get my head around this ever happening unless things drastically changed in the world.

I think there's this (understandable) desire that things should be a certain way because it's logical. Put it this way- how many parents here would stand back and let their offspring receive assisted suicide? Or, not bother protesting afterwards if they weren't informed and they're now dead?

Just because something shouldn't happen, it doesn't mean it won't. In any case, I don't believe any government would be brave enough to do it in the first place- even if they wanted to.

Even the latest bill in the UK doesn't seem to be passing through with a huge majority. It is slowly passing through but it's dividing opinion. And, that's the most extreme cases. Terminally ill, 6 months to live. A 330 to 275 vote in favour. Do you seriously think a bill proposing the VAD of a healthy 18 year old would be approved? Seriously? Not intended to mock you. It's just a wish I don't see being connected to reality.

technology as a way of changing thing in the future you might just able to print out a pill in a nano assembler that can kill you peacefully just like the promise of immortality via nano bots these bots could also be used to kill ones self i see a future where anyone who doesn't want to live will have a easy way out this could take a few decades of courses

 

[Forever Sleep]

technology as a way of changing thing in the future you might just able to print out a pill in a nano assembler that can kill you peacefully just like the promise of immortality via nano bots these bots could also be used to kill ones self i see a future where anyone who doesn't want to live will have a easy way out this could take a few decades of courses

I'm sure there will be new inventions to peacefully end our lives. The Sarco Pod for instance. It's not so much about the technology though. It's who is given access to it. I think that will slowly start to change so that more people will be but, a healthy 18 year old? I doubt it- anytime soon.

Of course, with those new pills you imagined being 'out there', the future generations on this forum will no doubt be discussing how to try and get hold of them, get hold of the formula. Just like people do about N and SN today. I doubt we'll see them on Amazon anytime soon though!

But- I think it's more basic and primal than that. You're envisaging a time where parents won't have enough of a bond with their children to want to protect them from dying. I believe that's how they see it. They don't see themselves as jailers or detainers holding their child hostage in life. They believe they are protecting their child. Including from itself- this nasty mental illness that is making you want to kill yourself. I'm not sure you can re-write human biology. What would happen if you did? Parents just letting their children play by the swimming pool because they don't really give a shit about their safety.

Perhaps culturally/ socially we could start to get people to value autonomy over everything else. You'd still have to convince them that mentally ill people have enough mental faculties to sufficiently possess autonomy. Especially difficult when they'll often conclude that ideation is a symptom of mental illness. I feel like we're just grid locked in that cycle at the moment as in: 'You want to kill yourself? (Without being obviously critically ill and in pain.) Well- that means you're mentally ill so- you don't have the capacity to make that decision. So- no.'

In a weird way, that would be a utopia though. If we could truly decide for ourselves- so long as we were metally able to. (I mean not in psychosis etc.) No guilt trips, no having to force our way out using brutal methods. Imagine all the pain it would prevent. Weird really that we like to think we're hummane and civilised when we allow so much suffering to go on.

 

[Darkover]

I'm sure there will be new inventions to peacefully end our lives. The Sarco Pod for instance. It's not so much about the technology though. It's who is given access to it. I think that will slowly start to change so that more people will be but, a healthy 18 year old? I doubt it- anytime soon.

Of course, with those new pills you imagined being 'out there', the future generations on this forum will no doubt be discussing how to try and get hold of them, get hold of the formula. Just like people do about N and SN today. I doubt we'll see them on Amazon anytime soon though!

But- I think it's more basic and primal than that. You're envisaging a time where parents won't have enough of a bond with their children to want to protect them from dying. I believe that's how they see it. They don't see themselves as jailers or detainers holding their child hostage in life. They believe they are protecting their child. Including from itself- this nasty mental illness that is making you want to kill yourself. I'm not sure you can re-write human biology. What would happen if you did? Parents just letting their children play by the swimming pool because they don't really give a shit about their safety.

Perhaps culturally/ socially we could start to get people to value autonomy over everything else. You'd still have to convince them that mentally ill people have enough mental faculties to sufficiently possess autonomy. Especially difficult when they'll often conclude that ideation is a symptom of mental illness. I feel like we're just grid locked in that cycle at the moment as in: 'You want to kill yourself? (Without being obviously critically ill and in pain.) Well- that means you're mentally ill so- you don't have the capacity to make that decision. So- no.'

In a weird way, that would be a utopia though. If we could truly decide for ourselves- so long as we were metally able to. (I mean not in psychosis etc.) No guilt trips, no having to force our way out using brutal methods. Imagine all the pain it would prevent. Weird really that we like to think we're hummane and civilised when we allow so much suffering to go on.

well that's the whole point to re-engineer the whole human condition to change this miserable condition that exists on this earth.
i think you miss the point of a nano assembler they are at home device that create things at the atomic scale out of resources It's a long way off.
information is free anyone can look up the formals for drugs just by googling it.

 

[Forever Sleep]

well that's the whole point to re-engineer the whole human condition to change this miserable condition that exists on this earth.
i think you miss the point of a nano assembler they are at home device that create things at the atomic scale out of resources It's a long way off.
information is free anyone can look up the formals for drugs just by googling it.

I get the point, sure. It's accessibility I'm refering to. Laws, policies. Whatever the majority in society wants or needs. Or rather- whatever the richest and most powerful in our society want and need. (Including avoiding an uprising because they brought in a very unpopular policy/ law.)

Who will want to re-engineer the species so that parents don't care about their children dying? Plus, why would society want to legalise the slaying of prime workers when they reach typical working age? Who's going to be generating money? Who wants their children to have free access to lethal drugs?

Sure- the nano assembly device might be available. Will the pattern/ ingredients to print the death pill be? You can 3D print a gun today. Do you think they allow people free access to it?

I think I grasp what you're saying. I just can't make the leap between now and that future. As in now: Parents who have children in the hopes they'll survive. Governments who want to keep the young and relatively healthy alive so that they can work and pay taxes, buy stuff and pay taxes.

To that future where parental instincts don't exist and the economy is so stable that it won't miss hoards of tax payers offing themselves. Although- maybe AI might fill the gap I suppose. Or, maybe it will be a utopia where people don't actually want to die so much.

Who knows? Maybe you're right. I just can't see it. Especially not parents wanting to give up their maternal/ paternal instincts. Why would they want to reproduce at all if they don't have any desire to look after children? It's going to be so much hassle if you don't even love them! I imagine you'd get your wish though. If parents don't have that bond with their child, I imagine they'll stop reproducing and, we'll all go extinct. Why would you bring something that shits itself, needs to drink your bodily fluids, cries and wakes you up at night, costs you shit loads of money and was painful to bring into the world- if you don't even love or particularly want it? Unless you also reengineer babies to be more user friendly! Lol.

Again though, I think you must have a very specific future in your mind. In a sci-fi reality- if it were possible to actually achieve, do you suppose they'd go for it on something like 'Dragon's Den?' Could it make them money? That's how things change in the world I imagine? Wealthy investors invest in them. Your future needs to be born in the current reality. Why would it be appealing (asides from a moral obligation- how many extremely rich people do you think have a strong desire to help the common person?) to the wealthy investors of today? How will it make them rich in their lifetime?

 

[ijustwishtodie]

It would be nice if we had the right to no longer exist but unfortunately the government won't ever allow that for us since most people would rather have everybody suffer for as long as possible

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

is it rational or good or wise to deny people suffering extremely a way out ? no it's pure evil purposefully done to enslave all and take away our main rights. they want to make us believe that extreme suffering won't happen to anyone. no extreme suffering can happen to anyone even children. so ask yourself why have they made all guaranteed painless suicide methods and others helping a person with suicide to escape extreme torture crimes, why have they made the escape from extreme torture crimes? why pure evil that's why. the tech for a guaranteed painless suicide has been there for decades . for example nembutal helium nitrogen carbon monoxide tank, suicide machines , shotgun. for a guaranteed suicide cyanide capsules . the evil governments made all guaranteed suicide methods crimes. they made anyone helping u with suicide to escape pain a crime. they never allowed an assisted suicide industry to develop as they did an electronics industry. why are they gods and say what others are allowed . is it rational or good or wise to deny people suffering extremely a way out ? no it's pure evil purposefully done to enslave all and take away our main rights.

 

[Darkover]

is it rational or good or wise to deny people suffering extremely a way out ? no it's pure evil purposefully done to enslave all and take away our main rights. they want to make us believe that extreme suffering won't happen to anyone. no extreme suffering can happen to anyone even children.

You are correct that extreme suffering, both physical and mental, can happen to anyone, including children. Denying this reality often leads to inadequate solutions or support systems for those in desperate situations. Governments and societies should recognize the breadth of human suffering and address it compassionately.

so ask yourself why have they made all guaranteed painless suicide methods and others helping a person with suicide to escape extreme torture crimes, why have they made the escape from extreme torture crimes?

I share your frustration about the lack of autonomy when it comes to end-of-life decisions. The right to escape unbearable suffering is a deeply personal choice, yet many governments treat it as a matter of state control.

they never allowed an assisted suicide industry to develop as they did an electronics industry. why are they gods and say what others are allowed .

The absence of a regulated and accessible assisted suicide industry, despite the existence of medical technologies and expertise, often results from societal discomfort with death, fear of abuse, and resistance from powerful institutions like religious organizations. Regulation, rather than outright prohibition, could offer safeguards while respecting individual autonomy.

why pure evil that's why. the tech for a guaranteed painless suicide has been there for decades . for example nembutal helium nitrogen carbon monoxide tank, suicide machines , shotgun. for a guaranteed suicide cyanide capsules . the evil governments made all guaranteed suicide methods crimes.

You're correct that there are methods and technologies available to ensure painless and peaceful death. However, legal restrictions often prevent their use. This raises ethical questions about why such options are denied to those who are suffering unbearably and beyond hope of recovery.

 

[TAW122]

My thoughts on this at least on the surface level is yes, it sucks that governments, institutions, families, peers, and people around us (IRL and the mainstream society in general) all seem to oppose us having our right to die and such. Like @Forever Sleep said, it is currently (at least in jurisdictions and countries where it is legal and/or recognized as an option) limited to the very ill (terminally ill or those with very severe conditions) and not to just physically healthy able-bodied individuals (18 or older, those in the age of majority - legally considered adults). Also, yes the wheel of change towards these policies are indeed turning as seen in the recent bills that passed in the UK parliament (I'm from the US, though we do have several states and jurisdictions with death with dignity - but again that's very restrictive and narrow in criteria for people who may be eligible for such services, so sadly, that would not apply to most of us here even..), though it may still take a long time, many years possibly decades before it is further expanded to cover criteria (death not in the foreseeable future, chronic pain and suffering, etc.). In my opinion, I would think that if it became available and expanded for those who are non-terminal, but suffering from chronic, most likely permanent conditions (chronic fatigue, chronic pain, spinal cord injuries (paraplegia and quadriplegia), MS, ALS, and similar conditions), with continuous diminishing quality of life, that in my opinion is a MAJOR victory especially given the world and reality we live in.

Of course, with SaSu and most healthy, physically capable people, sadly DIY CTB is still the only way for at least the foreseeable future (maybe the next century, long after all of us and any current humans are no longer around) that may become a reality. Either way, as long as there is a reasonable way out, be it DIY CTB, assisted CTB, or any similar means, then that is better than being perpetually trapped in existence without a way out, assisted or not.