Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[GasMonkey]

N2 is not the same as breathing air (it smells very metallic)

N2 has no smell, what you are smelling is not N2, maybe something related to your gear. Air is 78% N2. If you had air instead of pure N2 in that cylinder the smell would be same.

Also the heart starts beating quite fast as soon as oxygen levels in the blood drop, which is a very unpleasant experience. I notice some dizziness, but that is still far away from unconciousness.

It's normal that heart rate increases, also the nervousness/fear/anxiety obviusly increases your heart rate too.

You have to blow out ALL the air in the lungs and then take a huge DEEP breath of N2 to make the process much faster. PPeH/Philip says that with that method you lose consciousness in 1 or 2 breaths, VERY fast.

With shallow breathing, the gas valve of the mouth piece will probably not open anymore.

The demand valve will always maintain a possitive pressure inside the mask, so you will always have N2 to breathe.

 

[Andross01]

N2 has no smell, what you are smelling is not N2, maybe something related to your gear. Air is 78% N2. If you had air instead of pure N2 in that cylinder the smell would be same.


It's normal that heart rate increases, also the nervousness/fear/anxiety obviusly increases your heart rate too.

You have to blow out ALL the air in the lungs and then take a huge DEEP breath of N2 to make the process much faster. PPeH/Philip says that with that method you lose consciousness in 1 or 2 breaths, VERY fast.


The demand valve will always maintain a possitive pressure inside the mask, so you will always have N2 to breathe.

N2 may be odourless, but from the gas cylinder it smells metallic and not like air. It's a chemical smell - not horrible but quite noticably different from normal air.
Using a SCUBA mask you cannot take a huge deep breath of N2 as the mask cannot be prefilled with it. You may be able to hyperventilate and empty your lungs, but then you'd need to hold your breath while fixing the mask on your head to breath N2 from it. It doesn't work the same as with a prefilled exit bag.
I found the demand valve to be unresponsive when breathing volume was not enough to activate it.

 

[GasMonkey]

It's a chemical smell - not horrible but quite noticably different from normal air.

I have never noticed any special smell in the SCBA's that I have used. I have never used SCUBA tho, but I have used a lot of SCBA's.

Using a SCUBA mask you cannot take a huge deep breath of N2 as the mask cannot be prefilled with it

You can prefill it if the demand valve has the button to enable constant flow while it is pressed (I think most models have this button), in fact, the guy who invented the SCUBA method in 2010 (Scrooge) showed the button on his guide:



If your demand valve doesn't have this button, the first breath you take will indeed have a percentage of air, unless before taking it you intentionally create a leak by inserting a finger on the mask or something like that, which will be detected and covered by the demand valve by pumping N2 (purging the initial residual air inside the mask).

You may be able to hyperventilate and empty your lungs, but then you'd need to hold your breath while fixing the mask on your head to breath N2 from it.

After you have the mask on (with no demand valve connected to it so you can breath air freely), you should take a deep breath of air, hold your breath, insert the demand valve on the mask, prefill the mask with N2, exhale all air from lungs, and take a deep breath of N2 (in my case I will add a step to put my arms inside straps before the exhalation, since I will strap all my body to a deck chair).

I found the demand valve to be unresponsive when breathing volume was not enough to activate it.

I have not experienced this with SCBA, maybe the SCUBA valves are less sensitive? If you wanna see SCUBA demand valves that have been proved to work to CTB, you can try to find the one that SlovakGuy used, or the one that @LetzteAusfahrt used to assist suicide.

All the SCBA demand valves that I have used, once engaged, are always open (pumping more or less gas based on the demand, to maintain the positive pressure), they don't need to be "activated" again.

 

[Andross01]

My demand valve can be pressed too and gas flows rapidly when I do that. I just tried it and jumped a bit because it made such a loud noise. Heh...
However when I tried while wearing the mask, it only opens when I breathe in and thus makes the whole breathing process somewhat difficult.

 

[befree]

If you have too much doubt, test this equipment with oxygen to get a feel of how it works.

 

[Andross01]

I'm using a full-face SCUBA mask, so breathing through the nose doesn't really work well, because the mask sits on the nose aswell and kinda blocks it. Breathing through the mouth the whole time is probably not going to work because you need to conciously keep the mouth open to do that due to the mask straps pushing your mouth/chin closed. I am not sure that it will work and wonder how the Slovak Guy did it. Unfortunately I don't have an oxygen tank to test it.

 

[befree]

If you feel uncomfortable with the cheaper Poseidon mask, you might want to think about buying the expensive Ocean Reef.

Why Dive an IDM? | OCEAN REEF Diving

diving.oceanreefgroup.com

 

[Andross01]

Unfortunately these are way too expensive.

 

[GasMonkey]

SCBA masks are totally comfortable, no nose blocks or anything.

 

[outrider567]

N2 may be odourless, but from the gas cylinder it smells metallic and not like air. It's a chemical smell - not horrible but quite noticably different from normal air.
Using a SCUBA mask you cannot take a huge deep breath of N2 as the mask cannot be prefilled with it. You may be able to hyperventilate and empty your lungs, but then you'd need to hold your breath while fixing the mask on your head to breath N2 from it. It doesn't work the same as with a prefilled exit bag.
I found the demand valve to be unresponsive when breathing volume was not enough to activate it.

There is no smell from Nitrogen from my metallic gas cylinder, I possess a 3000 liter tank encased in steel--Breathing Nitrogen is exactly like breathing air, done 5 tests already--I'm using the EEDB hood, easy to take in deep breaths and oximeter showed my oxygen number plummet from 98 to 50with four deep breaths, just the same as with an exit bag--Btw, despite being 4 months old now, the tank still automatically sets at 2000 PSI, no change in pressure

Trying with a SCUBA mask, I find it difficult to keep the mask on because breathing the N2 is not the same as breathing air (it smells very metallic) and SI kicks in quickly. Also the heart starts beating quite fast as soon as oxygen levels in the blood drop, which is a very unpleasant experience. I notice some dizziness, but that is still far away from unconciousness. Also when unconcious, how would gas come into the mask? With shallow breathing, the gas valve of the mouth piece will probably not open anymore.

I saw my heart rate jump to 100-120 as soon as you take in many deep breaths of oxygen first, to expel it from your lungs, then put the hood on, but it wasn't an unpleasant experience at all for me, totally normal--Heart rate means little, you just need to get used to it, oxygen number needs to drop rapidly with the Nitrogen but remember there is a delay in the oximeter reading---When I took the hood off(quite tight at the neck)the O2 number only dropped to 88 but a few seconds later it dropped to 45!

 

[GasMonkey]

to expel it from your lungs, then put the hood on

Shouldn't be a problem to expel the air when you have the hood already on, coz the inner mask has exhalation valves.

 

[James777]

My experience was that I soon began to feel tingling in my hands, as if they were falling asleep. A short moment later I began to get dizzy, and my vision went grey around the edges. Each of the three times I have attempted this method, that's as far as I got before I flinched and removed the bag.

I did not experience any pain whatsoever, and no real discomfort aside from the mild tingling in my hands.

I do not believe I have suffered any ill effects from three aborted attempts. I had a bit of a cough for a couple days after my third attempt, but I can't say for sure whether that was attributable to the N2. It concerns me only in that this method demands that you be able to breathe freely in order for it to be effective, and I don't want to have ruined my chances to use it later, when I have summoned my courage.

My greatest difficulty is that I have been very stressed during my attempts, and could not keep my breathing steady and deep. This undoubtedly lengthened the amount of time it should have taken for me to black out.

In the stress of the situation, I experienced time dilation —in other words, I can't tell you how long it took for me to feel dizzy; it might have been five seconds, it might have been a minute and a half. It wasn't very long —but it was long enough for me to flinch.

From my experience, this is as painless, comfortable, and potentially peaceful a way to ctb as it is rumored to be. The only drawbacks that I can see are that it requires a lot of equipment —cylinder, regulator, hose, bag— and that there is a surprising amount of time for your survival instinct to kick in, or for second thoughts.

As I wrote at the beginning, I hope other forum members can fill in some of the blanks I have left —specifically, I have seen a lot of questions about tank sizes outside the US that I cannot answer.

I don't wish anyone good luck at catching the bus. I wish we could all find our way to a joyous and satisfying life that would make death an unfortunate reality rather than a longed-for relief. But all of us here know that the Fates aren't always that kind, and so I wish you all the most peaceful relief from your pain that you can find, and if that peace is brought by Death, I hope Death comes gently.

Hi sorry what was the cost

 

[ertn]

Hello everyone, This is my first post here. I've read this thread up to page 45 so far and know the basics.

I find the best and easiest method is a SCUBA or SCBA mask. I found a good guide to a SCUBA mask on a member's blog. Sounds pretty simple: connect the mask via the regulator and its tubing to the mounted nitrogen adapter on the tank.

Is it really that simple. What should I pay attention to?

Does a SCBA mask works better than a SCUBA mask?

 

[nembutal]

okay need advice for how i, a 5'4 19 year old, can make up a sick backstory to purchase one of those pressure tanks without suspicion

 

[ertn]

My demand valve can be pressed too and gas flows rapidly when I do that. I just tried it and jumped a bit because it made such a loud noise. Heh...
However when I tried while wearing the mask, it only opens when I breathe in and thus makes the whole breathing process somewhat difficult.

That's exactly what I was thinking too. When passed out, will I automatically breathe through my mouth, or will there be problems?

 

[befree]

Hello everyone, This is my first post here. I've read this thread up to page 45 so far and know the basics.

I find the best and easiest method is a SCUBA or SCBA mask. I found a good guide to a SCUBA mask on a member's blog. Sounds pretty simple: connect the mask via the regulator and its tubing to the mounted nitrogen adapter on the tank.

Is it really that simple. What should I pay attention to?

Does a SCBA mask works better than a SCUBA mask?

Yes. It´s really that simple. Everything works automatically, just like scuba diving. Everything you need is available worldwide. More info:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/how-to-inhale-nitrogen-gas-from-clinder.94119/

That's exactly what I was thinking too. When passed out, will I automatically breathe through my mouth, or will there be problems?

After you become unconscious, you will continue to breathe normally until you die. Whether you breathe through your mouth or also through your nose depends on the mask you use. If you use the mask as posted in the other thread, you breathe through the mouthpiece. If you use an Ocean Reef mask you don´t need the mouthpiece and you breathe through the mouth and nose.

 

[ertn]

Thanks!

Why do I need a 5l cylinder. That would be about 1000 liters at 200 bar. From what I've read gas only flows when you breathe. No constant flow needed. Maybe I can take a 2L or 3L tank?


What about the regulator mouthpiece, does it fit any mask without leaking? In the guide I read it was cutted out.

The ocean reef mask, is it similar to a SCBA?

(I'm using a translator for writing)

 

[befree]

Why do I need a 5l cylinder. That would be about 1000 liters at 200 bar. From what I've read gas only flows when you breathe. No constant flow needed.
What about the regulator mouthpiece, does it fit any mask without leaking? In the guide I read it was cutted out.

The ocean reef mask, is it similar to a SCBA?

(I'm using a translator for writing)

You don´t need a 5 L cylinder, but most vendors don´t have 2 or 3 L cylinders. Right, there is nor constant flow, when you stop breathing. Yes, the mouthpiece fits any mask. I know which guide you mean. He cutted the mouthpiece out. I wont do that. But regardless of whether you use the mouthpiece or not, you can additionally fix the 2nd stage inside the mask with a cable tie.

A regulator consists of 1st stage (connected to the cylinder) and 2nd stage (connected to the mask).

The Ocean Reef (Neptune Space) is a diving mask that you use without the mouthpiece and without the 2nd stage. The breathing part is integrated into the mask. The SCBA is not a diving mask. The SCBA mask is for firefighters.

 

[ertn]

I have never noticed any special smell in the SCBA's that I have used. I have never used SCUBA tho, but I have used a lot of SCBA's.

Hello GasMonkey,

can you recommend certain masks? With Regulator.

Do I need specific regulators or is there a standard that fits all masks?

I don't know if I should take an SCBA or SCUBA.

Both sounds good.

You don´t need a 5 L cylinder, but most vendors don´t have 2 or 3 L cylinders. Right, there is nor constant flow, when you stop breathing. Yes, the mouthpiece fits any mask. I know which guide you mean. He cutted the mouthpiece out. I wont do that. But regardless of whether you use the mouthpiece or not, you can additionally fix the 2nd stage inside the mask with a cable tie.

A regulator consists of 1st stage (connected to the cylinder) and 2nd stage (connected to the mask).

The Ocean Reef (Neptune Space) is a diving mask that you use without the mouthpiece and without the 2nd stage. The breathing part is integrated into the mask. The SCBA is not a diving mask. The SCBA mask is for firefighters.

Thanks again!

Usefull information!

I'm considering which method, SCBA or SCUBA, to use.

SCUBA sounds good. I still have to find out about SCBA.

Thanks very much!

 

[GasMonkey]

Hello GasMonkey,

can you recommend certain masks? With Regulator.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/exit-bag-and-inert-gas-megathread.8393/post-1690874

1st EM kit (my setup), 2nd parts from AL1B4B4, 3rd SCUBA parts (befree's setup).

Do I need specific regulators or is there a standard that fits all masks?

There are different demand valves for different mask insertions, but not much of them, in EU is basically the Dr4g3r-type and the /\/\SA-type. The regulator can be a native N₂ regulator (EM kit) or an air regulator (any SCBA or SCUBA regulator, which will require a nitrogen-to-air adapter, since you will connect it to a N₂ cylinder).

I don't know if I should take an SCBA or SCUBA.

Are you gonna Catch The Bus or Catch The Submarine?

The intuitive option is SCBA (Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus), since you are not gonna do it underwater (SCUBA: Self-Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus), but since both work on land, it depends on your access to gear, prices on your region, available money, etc.

Andross01 has reported his SCUBA mask being uncomfortable in the nose. I have never used SCUBA so I don't know if the mask has to be from a certain tier of quality to be comfortable, I know that they usually have an "equalizing block" to cover the nose for equalization underwater, so you would need to remove that somehow.

I have used a lot of SCBA and I can confirm that all SCBA mask are 100% comfortable.

 

[Greenberg]

Hello everyone, This is my first post here. I've read this thread up to page 45 so far and know the basics.

I find the best and easiest method is a SCUBA or SCBA mask. I found a good guide to a SCUBA mask on a member's blog. Sounds pretty simple: connect the mask via the regulator and its tubing to the mounted nitrogen adapter on the tank.

Is it really that simple. What should I pay attention to?

Does a SCBA mask works better than a SCUBA mask?

Hi, @ertn -- A SCBA mask is superior to a SCUBA. First, it is generally less expensive than a SCUBA mask. But more importantly, you can breathe naturally with an SCBA mask; whereas, with a SCUBA mask, you would need to breathe through your mouth. Your nose is generally pinched. Best, G

 

[GasMonkey]

okay need advice for how i, a 5'4 19 year old, can make up a sick backstory to purchase one of those pressure tanks without suspicion

Nitrogen tanks are used for welding and brewing.

 

[befree]

A SCBA mask is superior to a SCUBA. First, it is generally less expensive than a SCUBA mask. But more importantly, you can breathe naturally with an SCBA mask; whereas, with a SCUBA mask, you would need to breathe through your mouth. Your nose is generally pinched. Best, G

The Poseidon mask shown in the other thread costs appr. US$120,-. The Ocean Reef Neptune Space mask costs appr. US$400,- to 500,-. How much is a SCBA mask + regulator where you guys live (new, not used) ? In Europe a Draeger mask costs converted to US$ 190,- + 520,- for the regulator.

No matter which mask you use, it takes only seconds to become unconscious and only a few minutes to die. I don´t know if it´s worth it to spend 4x as much for a Ocean Reef mask.

 

[Obliviate]

I'm planning on going to Airgas to get a 40 cf argon tank and I was wondering if anyone else has purchased from them? If so, what was your experience? Did they ask questions? I'm worried about looking a little strange or out of place there because I'm a female and I look a lot younger than my age.

Hi, were you able to purchase from them? I was planning on doing the same except helium

 

[GasMonkey]

How much is a SCBA mask + regulator where you guys live (new, not used) ? In Europe a Draeger mask costs converted to US$ 190,- + 520,- for the regulator.

I wouldn't buy it here, I'd get it from China.

 

[befree]

I don´t order from China. But I already have my diving equipment and see no reason to change. I also see no advantage with this SCBA equipment.
I wonder why some people prefer nitrigen instead of helium. Both are easy to get. Nitrogen is a bit cheaper and the vendor might not suspect so easily. Maybe that´s a reason.

 

[GasMonkey]

I have been researching more about SCUBA and I have discovered that there is a bunch of demand valve+mask combos that work on Non-PP (Non Positive Pressure), which wouldn't be optimal to CTB, since you wouldn't be fully protected agaisn't the external gas without a Possitive Pressure inside the mask, the seal wouldn't be perfect. This could be why @Andross01 reported the demand valve not being sensible enough when shallow breathing.

I was mistaken on previous posts when I assumed that SCUBA always runs on Positive Pressure like SCBA, in fact, looks like most experienced divers prefer to use Non-PP over PP.

So to use SCUBA one must sure that the setup is working on Possitive Pressure, be careful.

I wonder why some people prefer nitrigen instead of helium

All the gear is tested to work on Nitrogen (since air is 78% Nitrogen) but is untested on Helium. I guess it would work OK with Helium too, but should be tested.

Definitely more variables to take into account for with SCUBA+Helium than with SCBA+Nitrogen.

 

[befree]

I have been researching more about SCUBA and I have discovered that there is a bunch of demand valve+mask combos that work on Non-PP (Non Positive Pressure), which wouldn't be optimal to CTB, since you wouldn't be fully protected agaisn't the external gas without a Possitive Pressure inside the mask, the seal wouldn't be perfect. This could be why @Andross01 reported the demand valve not being sensible enough when shallow breathing.

I was mistaken on previous posts when I assumed that SCUBA always runs on Positive Pressure like SCBA, in fact, looks like most experienced divers prefer to use Non-PP over PP.

So to use SCUBA one must sure that the setup is working on Possitive Pressure, be careful.


All the gear is tested to work on Nitrogen (since air is 78% Nitrogen) but is untested on Helium. I guess it would work OK with Helium too, but should be tested.

Definitely more variables to take into account for with SCUBA+Helium than with SCBA+Nitrogen.

Which variables ? Of course helium with scuba gear has been tested.
Maybe the user didn´t have the right equipment or it was defective. "is working on Possitive Pressure" This I don´t understand technically.

 

[GasMonkey]

Which variables ?

Making sure the demand valve works on PP (Positive Pressure) instead of Non-PP (Non Positive Pressure) and testing the compatibility with Helium.

"is working on Possitive Pressure" This I don´t understand technically.

In PP the demand valve is always open maintaining a pressure in the mask some millibars over ambient pressure. From what I understand in Non-PP the demand valve opens when you breath and then closes.

 

[befree]

now it gets confusing. I still don´t understand why nitrogen should be compatible, but helium not. People around the world used a scuba equipment to CTB. Just one example: https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ll-face-mask-fixed-on-the-face_fig8_253647263 ( I have this mask)