Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[outrider567]

I did some test today but something seems wrong. I used a elastic cord as explained in PPH, adjusted very tighly to a glass vase. The plastic bag needs like 1 minute to inflate even at 25 lit/min and it is just 45x45 cm. There is no apparent leakage but the bag never fully inflate. The upper corners are very loose and just can feel some gas exiting around the hose. It gets better if i manually press the bag around the hose but the bag is never at tension. At least there is no risk of bag exploding or open in the upper side but I am not sure if it is inflated enough. I will try with a sport elastis band to test if there is a significant difference. Maybe the bag is functioning well and is just the atmospheric pression doing its work, but i wanted to ask how tension the bag must be.

There is some slight leakage around my plastic tubing with tests also but the bag still inflates pretty well--You can test it with the oximeter on your finger like I did--Get the oxygen out of your lungs while inflating the bag,then pull it down to your neck and do 5 deep breaths--See if your oxygen dropped from 98 to 45 like mine(oximeter reading lags by a few seconds)

N means nembutal. Many like myself come to this forum because had heard of Sarco or exit bag, but nembutal is a best method and maybe you can get it. Make sure you read about it before buying inert gas equipment.

Supossedly you can change a regulator of one gas for another if you calculate the flow, but @FromGermany do some warning about cheap equipment and reconversion of oxigen regulators to nitrogen use (MaxDog) might not be adecuated because of regularity of flow and max PSI suportted. I dont know is he is right, but i wouldnt change regulators just in case. I bought a argon tank and an argon flowmeter-regulator (it doesnt matter if is argon or nitrogen) from a local gas shop. Sadly the regulator dont have a trademark or something so I guess is a cheap chinese one. More reason to do a full test with to see everything is ok (nor fuges, bag is ok, sufficient gas, adecuate flow, cord doesnt get loose, etc). I recommend as fromgermany did to use a head mannequin or something similar to you neck width (a vase, a lamp, etc).

Relating to the energy of the convulsions, according to multiples accounts attendants just need to hold their hands. In this 4-case report is described in detail: https://www.jstor.org/stable/20696752. I strongly recomend read it. Search it in Sci hub. They seems sincopal myoclonus because the brain is turning off, not tonic clonic seizures (some type of epileptic seizure) as I initially believed. Nevertheless, as you can see in the fourth case, it can occur unexpected results so better assume the worst case scenario, especially if you have epilepsy. In either case, just a knot holding your wrists should be enough. Neck movements seems limited, but the same what can be said about hitting your head against the bed can be said about the headpiece of a seat. Remove it if you can. Also add weigh in the chair base if it is too light so it dont fall.

In the mentioned study, they used mask and i assume they were in bed because of the model photographs. This study showed why you should NEVER USE A MASK. Using a bag plus a non-rebreather mask maybe it is not a bad idea as a double safety method if the bag get broken but I had read anything about it. They just assume that wont happen.

Respect the flow. USE AT LEAST 20 L/MIN. The article mentioned says you need minimun 25 l/min to a rapid lost of conscious and death. At least for 40 min, 1 hour is better. Do the math and you will need at least 1 m3 or 1000 litres.

I'm using a maxdog regulator but the max is 15 lpm not 20 lpm, but my tank is 3000 liters so I'm sure that will be sufficient to ctb---Greenberg disagreed with much of FromGermany's statements

 

[sunny/omori]

I not so worry much about how much CO2 it is in the bag. With gas flowing out It wont accumulate. It am worry about the O2 that you expel (17 %) and the O2 that get in the bag (21 %). In a 100% inert gas chamber you should loss conscious in 5-10 seconds, but in bag that is closer to a minute because your exhaled O2 accumulated. Given you cant change anything once you lost conscious is better to start with the lowest possible O2 in the bag so you can be sure the O2 level is low enough to succeed if you lost conscious in just a few breaths. If one minute has passed and you are still awake I will abort the attempt and check everything again.

I know PPH says 15 lpm, but Final Exit says 20 lpm and Ogden et al. says 25 lpm. The more flow you get the inert gas method is safer and faster because of positive pressure and complete wash out of O2. One thing is the max capacity of the regulator and other the ideal flow. My flowmeter-regulator goes up to 30 lpm and I have enough gas for 40 min so i would for 25 lpm. If you have a too little flow because leakage, can happen something like the 4th case in which you fall asleep but you still have enough O2 to keep alive. If you get more flow than needed, nothing bad will happen (if the regulator can tolerate it).

I think that making real tests it is a very bad idea. It can happen that you loss consciouns very fast but you are not prepared. Not assume you will need 50 seconds or so, maybe the bag is indeed very well constructed and you fall asleep in seconds. That can go very wrong. The inert gas asphyxation is a real thing, no need to test it with a pulse oximeter.

 

[outrider567]

I not so worry much about how much CO2 it is in the bag. With gas flowing out It wont accumulate. It am worry about the O2 that you expel (17 %) and the O2 that get in the bag (21 %). In a 100% inert gas chamber you should loss conscious in 5-10 seconds, but in bag that is closer to a minute because your exhaled O2 accumulated. Given you cant change anything once you lost conscious is better to start with the lowest possible O2 in the bag so you can be sure the O2 level is low enough to succeed if you lost conscious in just a few breaths. If one minute has passed and you are still awake I will abort the attempt and check everything again.

I know PPH says 15 lpm, but Final Exit says 20 lpm and Ogden et al. says 25 lpm. The more flow you get the inert gas method is safer and faster because of positive pressure and complete wash out of O2. One thing is the max capacity of the regulator and other the ideal flow. My flowmeter-regulator goes up to 30 lpm and I have enough gas for 40 min so i would for 25 lpm. If you have a too little flow because leakage, can happen something like the 4th case in which you fall asleep but you still have enough O2 to keep alive. If you get more flow than needed, nothing bad will happen (if the regulator can tolerate it).

I think that making real tests it is a very bad idea. It can happen that you loss consciouns very fast but you are not prepared. Not assume you will need 50 seconds or so, maybe the bag is indeed very well constructed and you fall asleep in seconds. That can go very wrong. The inert gas asphyxation is a real thing, no need to test it with a pulse oximeter.

No danger problem making real tests because I hold the bag at my neck with my hands--If I pass out, my hands release it, the bag loosens and oxygen then flows in---I do possess other regulators and flowmeters that go higher than 15 lpm, I'm not bound to the limitations of the maxdog regulator, I can set others up to get 20 or 25 lpm if I wish

 

[sunny/omori]

This knot seems pretty easy to do and self-constraint. You put your hand in it and just pull it off.

Arbor Knot

The Arbor Knot is used to attach the fishing line to the "Arbor" or "Spool Center" and is a simple, easily learned and effective fishing knot.

www.animatedknots.com

 

[SKDN]

Here on my country I can only find normal regulators for N2 . And the measure is Kgf/cm3. Can't find any way to convert that to flow per minute. And the equipment that does that only work for oxygen, witch is a different size apparently. Any way around that?

 

[Raum]

Do we have any records of anyone failing and turning with brain damage?

If someone ended up in that situation whats there left to do? Let a knife by your bedside?

Im maybe just paranoid and this shouldn't happen with proper planning but i think its good to have contingency plans in any possible case.

 

[sunny/omori]

Do we have any records of anyone failing and turning with brain damage?

If someone ended up in that situation whats there left to do? Let a knife by your bedside?

Im maybe just paranoid and this shouldn't happen with proper planning but i think its good to have contingency plans in any possible case.

Past 5 minutes you would be severely damaged because this method is very fast. If you fail around that time, there is nothing you can do anymore. I dont know if there is a lot of failures. or just a few. There a thousands of succesful VAD by exit bag according to Ogden. This method is reported in literature with a attendance present to hold hands and make sure the gas is flowing. So do it alone is riskier. I recommend do it just in ideal conditions and with a lot of testing. That is why i am changing it because having a proper chair in a hotel room it is not easy, and dont want to die in my house. Some user warning me that even if only tale 1 minute to lost consciouns you still have panick not just because of death, but also getting brain damage. I dont have think Sarco would be more than just a propaganda in the near future, but a scuba equipment could get this method safer.

I wish I had know all of this before invested so much time and money in this method but I hope at least someone else can find this info useful.

 

[Justnotme]

@mandyjohnuk хорошо, да. Я думал, что это было желаемое ощущение, к которому мы стремились с периодом пластиковой трубки ... но, вероятно, проблема в том, что она все еще тонкая ... регулятор у меня есть (потому что я не мог получить один с низким давление, необходимая скорость), по-видимому, может работать для того, чтобы газ в качестве ФАКЕЛА, он вытолкнул воздух «сильнее» и развил трубку ... Я как бы застрял с этим регулятором ... Усталая лошадь научила ощущать все так просто .. Что произошло , если мы воспользуемся его обычным шлангом и отрежем конец, чтобы попасть в сумку?

Ok, I did one more practice run with the Nitrogen/Exit Bag----This time, while the bag was filling(took about 30 seconds)up with Nitrogen, I took many deep breaths to get the oxygen out of my lungs, heart rate jumped to 100--I then took the plastic bag and breathed in a few deep breaths of Nitrogen(still flowing from the plastic tube),and stopped--At first my Oxygen number was still at 98, but then just 5 to10 seconds later it dropped to 78! amazing how fast it dropped-- So, this is pure Nitrogen alright---Don't need any more practice runs--

Did it hurt when you inhaled nitrogen? Also tell me, please, what purity is your nitrogen? 99.99%, 99.999%. 99.995%,99.9994% and so on.. Have you bought a regulator designed specifically for HIGH purity nitrogen? Or a simple nitrogen regulator? Does it matter?

 

[Raum]

Past 5 minutes you would be severely damaged because this method is very fast. If you fail around that time, there is nothing you can do anymore. I dont know if there is a lot of failures. or just a few. There a thousands of succesful VAD by exit bag according to Ogden. This method is reported in literature with a attendance present to hold hands and make sure the gas is flowing. So do it alone is riskier. I recommend do it just in ideal conditions and with a lot of testing. That is why i am changing it because having a proper chair in a hotel room it is not easy, and dont want to die in my house. Some user warning me that even if only tale 1 minute to lost consciouns you still have panick not just because of death, but also getting brain damage. I dont have think Sarco would be more than just a propaganda in the near future, but a scuba equipment could get this method safer.

I wish I had know all of this before invested so much time and money in this method but I hope at least someone else can find this info useful.

I have tried the scuba method and i haven't managed to make it work despite a lot of research and following the only existing guide as such ( see my post history)

The closest i got to it is to make the mask work but theres a lot of leakage and who knows if it cuts off after the first seconds. ( Because of the connectors) , that was my preffered as well because its faster but theres no megathread about it and nobody knows how to replicate it past that guide/ has the know how.

Real big shame.

 

[sunny/omori]

I have tried the scuba method and i haven't managed to make it work despite a lot of research and following the only existing guide as such ( see my post history)

The closest i got to it is to make the mask work but theres a lot of leakage and who knows if it cuts off after the first seconds. ( Because of the connectors) , that was my preffered as well because its faster but theres no megathread about it and nobody knows how to replicate it past that guide/ has the know how.

Real big shame.

Did you read this setup? https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...with-nitrogen-and-replace-the-exit-bag.79080/. In the tradiotional exit bag you have to use a wrench. Try to use one.

Dd it urt when you inhaled nitrogen? Also tell me, please, what purity is your nitrogen? 99.99%, 99.999%. 99.995%,99.9994% and so on.. Have you bought a regulator designed specifically for HIGH purity nitrogen? Or a simple nitrogen regulator? Does it matter?

Nitrogen doesnt hurt. Most air you inhale everyday is mostly nitrogen. 99.99% is more than good enough. What matters to the regulator is the max capacity of PSI, not the purity of the gas. Always do a full test before ctb.

 

[outrider567]

Did it hurt when you inhaled nitrogen? Also tell me, please, what purity is your nitrogen? 99.99%, 99.999%. 99.995%,99.9994% and so on.. Have you bought a regulator designed specifically for HIGH purity nitrogen? Or a simple nitrogen regulator? Does it matter?

Nitrogen is just like breathing air, no difference--regulators I bought are just simple nitrogen regulators---When you turn the Nitrogen tank on, the regulator shows the proper pressure of 2000 PSI--Then you just adjust the flowmeter to 15 liters per minute--It makes a hissing noise in the exit bag from the clear plastic tubing

 

[Justnotme]

Азот не помешает. Большая часть воздуха, который вы вдыхаете каждый день, состоит в основном из азота. 99,99% более чем достаточно. Для регулятора важна максимальная мощность PSI, а не чистота газа. Всегда делайте полный тест перед ctb.

Спасибо!

 

[sunny/omori]

I found this info helpful:

In 119 cases using helium with plastic bags, the following information is
of importance:
Witnesses report muscular contractions (clonus) in about half of helium
deaths.These spasms occur between 2 minutes and 8 minutes into
the procedure.Arms and legs will tighten and relax a few times,
from about 10 seconds to 2 minutes duration.An inexperienced observer
may misinterpret arm-tightening contractions as an effort to
remove the bag.This is not the case.These contractions are also common
during anesthesia in surgery settings.Witnesses who have attended
several helium suicides say that they have never seen a case
where the hands have actually reached as far as the plastic bag.They
also report that when family members or loved ones are told about
these muscular contractions, they are not troubled when they see it
happen.Because the patient is unconscious at this point, there will be
no experience of discomfort.
[...]
Helium gas inhaled inside a plastic bag is a highly effective means for
hastening death.12 It is available in disposable party balloon kits and in
refillable tanks from party supply shops.No withdrawal period from any
medications is required. No other medications need to be used with helium.
If helium is to be used, it is very important that one carefully adhere
to the prescribed steps, including practice sessions, to ensure that equipment
is operational and that the proper technique is followed.

Guide to a Humane Self-Chosen Death (2006)

Secondly, a more
important reason the helium method could lose ground is because
some websites warn readers of failed suicide attempts using the
helium method. When preparing this study, we asked the three
biggest 'right-to-die organisations' in the Netherlands if they still
inform people about the helium method. Since 2016 two have
ceased to do so with the third now mentioning it alongside
suggestions about alternative 'safer' methods. All three organ-
isations knew of failed suicide attempts using the helium method.

Suicide by helium inhalation in the Netherlands between 2012 and 2019.

Suicide by helium inhalation in the Netherlands between 2012 and 2019

In 2012 and 2013 a movie and a book about a ‘dignified end of life’ were published in the Netherlands. These items described suicide using an ‘exit ba…

www.sciencedirect.com

I would dismiss this method in favor of chlroquine cocktail but my conclusions are that all methos have some risk, and the result of inert gas asphyxation would depend of the preparations, test of your equipment, and follow the instructions correctly. I would insist one more time: Use at least 20 lpm for 40 minutes. More gas and flow the better. Use nitrogen or argon, not helium. Use a anchor knot to constrain your arms. Considerate methods more researched before, especially N and chloriquine.

And DONT LET BIG GAPS IN THE BAG. The ideal exit bag just open when there is flow and dont let air in when it is closed. That is why ot must be a elastic cord or band. I used a jacket cord with very hardy filaments. Even fully tighted it let the flow pass, but that would depend of your specific materials. I found the duct tape be more resistant than micropore, specially to tape the hose.

 

[RN12]

what about buy a big CO 99.99 cilinder and just open it in the car??

a bit smaller then this one i guess but as example

[Hot Item] Carbon Monoxide 99.99% /Co Gas in 40L 47L Cylinder CAS 630-08-0

CAS No.: 630-08-0 Formula: Co Classification: Other Oxides Grade Standard: Industrial Grade Kind: Carbon Monoxide Quality: First Class

ludonggas.en.made-in-china.com

what you guys think? put the airblowers from the car on lowest setting so that no gas escape to the outside

 

[anon00]

Hi.
I have used Adams Gas for my set up.
Please look at my post it shows the cylinder I purchased.

And there was no issue with police.
There won't be as it's sold quite freely here in the UK. With no questions asked.

My delivery took 2 days.
Hope this helps.

@mandyjohnuk Hi, I'm in the UK and was thinking about ordering N2 from Adams Gas. I wondered if you could describe your experience ordering it. How was it packaged? Could you choose a delivery day? Did they ask you what it was for and what did you say if they did?

Thanks

 

[mandyjohnuk]

@mandyjohnuk Hi, I'm in the UK and was thinking about ordering N2 from Adams Gas. I wondered if you could describe your experience ordering it. How was it packaged? Could you choose a delivery day? Did they ask you what it was for and what did you say if they did?

Thanks

Hello.
No questions were ever asked. It was packaged with protective board surrounding it with a plastic hose cover. And it arrived with Owens transport. The driver did ask however what I was using it for to which I just said for my welding. Delivery was within 2 days from this company. It's best to go to eBay to order as you will never get to speak to anyone which is best. Good luck.

 

[anon00]

What is the difference between using an EEBD Hood compared with a SCBA mask? The SCBA mask just seems to add extra complexity to me requiring the additional regulator etc. Provided you have 20 min of gas it seems like the EEBD Hood would be more than enough to get the job done.

 

[anon00]

Also, I read in PPeH that using an EEBD Hood requires 25l/m instead of 15l/m with a plastic bag and results in a longer period before loss of consciousness. Is this true? Does anyone know of any successful attempts with an EEBD Hood or similar?

 

[befree]

What is the difference between using an EEBD Hood compared with a SCBA mask? The SCBA mask just seems to add extra complexity to me requiring the additional regulator etc. Provided you have 20 min of gas it seems like the EEBD Hood would be more than enough to get the job done.

No shortness of breath and no feeling of suffocation, as CO2 continues to be exhaled. Inhalation of pure Helium or Nitrogen that is not enriched by exhaled breathing air (with oxygen and CO2). No risk of failure due to uncontrolled movements during unconsciousness or slackening of the muscles and a resulting change in body position. No danger to other persons due to escaping gas.

The pressure reducer, which is connected to the gas cylinder, reduces the inhaled gas down to 9 bar. The second part of the regulator, the mouthpiece, regulates the pressure further down. This allows you to breathe normally.

The mouthpiece operates according to breathing demand. This means that gas only flows when breathing in. If there is no inhalation or exhalation at all, the gas flow stops automatically and the exhaled breathing gas is led out of the regulator (mouthpiece) via a membrane.

As a result, the exhaled gases (CO2 + O2) are never mixed with the gas to be inhaled. This also reduces the amount of gas required, because gas does not flow permanently.

 

[Schmootz]

Also, I read in PPeH that using an EEBD Hood requires 25l/m instead of 15l/m with a plastic bag and results in a longer period before loss of consciousness. Is this true? Does anyone know of any successful attempts with an EEBD Hood or similar?

All three methods, bag, hood, and mask have their proponents. It is difficult to say one is better than another, especially since if one is successful they wouldn't be back to tell us about it (I hope).


Once the inert gas causes a loss of consciousness there are many reports by observers that body movements can and do continue. The amount and intensity of these spasms seems to vary greatly from individual to individual and can't be predicted in advance. That said, from my own experiments and logic I believe the bag is the hardest to displace, followed by the hood, and then the mask. Some form of limb restraint is usually advised with any method.


Time to loss of consciousness will be longer with a hood than with a bag. This is due to the concentration of inert gas at the time the head enters the bag or hood. The correct procedure for the bag is to secure the bag around the forehead and then squeeze all the air out of the bag allowing it to refill with the inert gas. When the bag is then pulled down over the head it is filled with 100% inert gas and your head acts like a piston displacing some of the gas out of the bottom of the bag as it slides over the head. This means the first breath after bag is in place will be of 100% inert gas. By contrast, when you slip a hood over your head it is filled with air. The incoming inert gas will then replace the air at a rate determined by the flow of the inert gas. This is called "Dilution Purging" and to reduce the oxygen in the hood from 21% to less than 1% will require a volume of inert gas equal to three times the volume of the hood. So if you've got a 1cuft (30L) hood with a flow rate of .5cfm (15LPM) it will take 6 minutes to displace the air and use 3cuft of the inert gas. The problem is further complicated by the fact that you can't hold your breath for 6 minutes and will exhale into the hood further diluting the inert gas. It would be possible to reduce the time by pre-filling the hood with inert gas before placing it over the head but some mixing will inevitably occur as the hood is picked up and placed over the head. So the time to unconsciousness will be longer with a hood. I have no experience with the SCUBA mask in this regard so can't comment.


I don't believe flow rate need necessarily be increased with a hood, but an increased flow rate will purge the hood faster as noted above. I have experimented using compressed air in place of inert gas and found that, for me, a minimum flow of 17LPM will keep me comfortable. I don't believe there is any downside to a higher flow rate except using more gas. The only possible exception would be with extremely high flow rates that don't allow the inert gas to warm up as it passes through the regulator/flowmeter. If the flow is high enough it would cause the inert gas to become very cold but, of course, this is irrelevant if unconsciousness comes quickly.


Taking all this into account I think a 20cuft tank of inert gas is OK for a bag but I would definitely go for a 40cuft with a hood. I don't have enough information to comment on the requirements for a SCUBA mask.

 

[anon00]

In the Final Exit 2020 Derek Humphry says: "For the nitrogen method set the nitrogen regulator outlet gauge at 20 liters per minute (LPM)"

This is my point. It can't be a mistake to use more L/m for more flow, better than too low flow, which can end in a desaster. More flow = less CO2 and more positive pressure in the bag/helmet.

I would never use a flow smaller than 20 L/m.

I emailed Derek Humphry about this and he replied with this:

"UPDATED INFO
Experience has now indicated that 15 LPM is the best."

I'm not sure how exactly he came to this conclusion (maybe from the oxygen tests in PPeH? Or perhaps just witnessing people succeeding with 15 LPM?)

 

[outrider567]

Did 2 more Nitrogen tests today--Both times Oxygen dropped quickly from 98 to 54, second test got dizzy---Looked in the mirror, my face was white as a ghost

All three methods, bag, hood, and mask have their proponents. It is difficult to say one is better than another, especially since if one is successful they wouldn't be back to tell us about it (I hope).


Once the inert gas causes a loss of consciousness there are many reports by observers that body movements can and do continue. The amount and intensity of these spasms seems to vary greatly from individual to individual and can't be predicted in advance. That said, from my own experiments and logic I believe the bag is the hardest to displace, followed by the hood, and then the mask. Some form of limb restraint is usually advised with any method.


Time to loss of consciousness will be longer with a hood than with a bag. This is due to the concentration of inert gas at the time the head enters the bag or hood. The correct procedure for the bag is to secure the bag around the forehead and then squeeze all the air out of the bag allowing it to refill with the inert gas. When the bag is then pulled down over the head it is filled with 100% inert gas and your head acts like a piston displacing some of the gas out of the bottom of the bag as it slides over the head. This means the first breath after bag is in place will be of 100% inert gas. By contrast, when you slip a hood over your head it is filled with air. The incoming inert gas will then replace the air at a rate determined by the flow of the inert gas. This is called "Dilution Purging" and to reduce the oxygen in the hood from 21% to less than 1% will require a volume of inert gas equal to three times the volume of the hood. So if you've got a 1cuft (30L) hood with a flow rate of .5cfm (15LPM) it will take 6 minutes to displace the air and use 3cuft of the inert gas. The problem is further complicated by the fact that you can't hold your breath for 6 minutes and will exhale into the hood further diluting the inert gas. It would be possible to reduce the time by pre-filling the hood with inert gas before placing it over the head but some mixing will inevitably occur as the hood is picked up and placed over the head. So the time to unconsciousness will be longer with a hood. I have no experience with the SCUBA mask in this regard so can't comment.


I don't believe flow rate need necessarily be increased with a hood, but an increased flow rate will purge the hood faster as noted above. I have experimented using compressed air in place of inert gas and found that, for me, a minimum flow of 17LPM will keep me comfortable. I don't believe there is any downside to a higher flow rate except using more gas. The only possible exception would be with extremely high flow rates that don't allow the inert gas to warm up as it passes through the regulator/flowmeter. If the flow is high enough it would cause the inert gas to become very cold but, of course, this is irrelevant if unconsciousness comes quickly.


Taking all this into account I think a 20cuft tank of inert gas is OK for a bag but I would definitely go for a 40cuft with a hood. I don't have enough information to comment on the requirements for a SCUBA mask.

I possess a 120 cu ft tank lol

 

[Justnotme]

Did 2 more Nitrogen tests today--Both times Oxygen dropped quickly from 98 to 54, second test got dizzy---Looked in the mirror, my face was white as a ghost

I possess a 120 cu ft tank lol

Please tell me what is the purity of your nitrogen? (as a percentage). Last time I already asked you this question, and you told me about the principle of operation of this method and about the pressure in the cylinder, but did not tell me about the purity of nitrogen :(. This is very important to me. I will be grateful for the answer

 

[outrider567]

Please tell me what is the purity of your nitrogen? (as a percentage). Last time I already asked you this question, and you told me about the principle of operation of this method and about the pressure in the cylinder, but did not tell me about the purity of nitrogen :(. This is very important to me. I will be grateful for the answer

Sent you two PM's

 

[mandyjohnuk]

99% is fine.

 

[Harold]

I have tried Nitrogen with exit-bag twice yesterday, but there is no peaceful unconscious.
The feeling of suffocation happened, also I could feel the blood out from my face and acra.
Those pains made me take off the exit-bag, making a ringing in the ears and dizziness.

I had tightly tied the exit-bag entrance twice with a rubber band, also more than 15L/m flow rate and deep breath strictly had been cleaved.
But at 50 seconds in the first try and 30 seconds in the second try, I could not afford those pains.

It is not true that only excess carbon dioxide makes humans feel suffocation.
The extremely low oxygen density also makes the same phenomenon.

It seems the exit-bag method to require plenty of endurance and concentration to overcome an instinct for survival.
The peaceful unconscious might not come.

 

[outrider567]

Please tell me what is the purity of your nitrogen? (as a percentage). Last time I already asked you this question, and you told me about the principle of operation of this method and about the pressure in the cylinder, but did not tell me about the purity of nitrogen :(. This is very important to me. I will be grateful for the answer

Greenberg said 99.999% isn't necessary for CTB--99.0% will do just fine

I have tried Nitrogen with exit-bag twice yesterday, but there is no peaceful unconscious.
The feeling of suffocation happened, also I could feel the blood out from my face and acra.
Those pains made me take off the exit-bag, making a ringing in the ears and dizziness.

I had tightly tied the exit-bag entrance twice with a rubber band, also more than 15L/m flow rate and deep breath strictly had been cleaved.
But at 50 seconds in the first try and 30 seconds in the second try, I could not afford those pains.

It is not true that only excess carbon dioxide makes humans feel suffocation.
The extremely low oxygen density also makes the same phenomenon.

It seems the exit-bag method to require plenty of endurance and concentration to overcome an instinct for survival.
The peaceful unconscious might not come.

Harold, first of all, rubber bands are a no-no, they are too tight(tightly tied as you said), your CO2 can't escape! and is filling the bag, fighting with the N2--An elastic terry cloth headband is supposedly better around the neck,or a properly made exit bag where the elastic is pulled around the neck but not too tightly----Greenberg here hopefully will see your post and respond

 

[anon00]

@Harold Maybe the bag was tied too tight? I think you need a small gap to ensure carbon dioxide is taken away by the flow of nitrogen. Also, did you make sure to completely empty the bag of as much air as possible and let it fill with nitrogen beforehand? Lastly did you make sure to hyperventilate and then breath out as much as possible before you put the bag over your head?

 

[Harold]

Greenberg said 99.999% isn't necessary for CTB--99.0% will do just fine

Harold, first of all, rubber bands are a no-no, they are too tight(tightly tied as you said), your CO2 can't escape! and is filling the bag, fighting with the N2--An elastic terry cloth headband is supposedly better around the neck,or a properly made exit bag where the elastic is pulled around the neck but not too tightly----Greenberg here hopefully will see your post and respond

@Harold Maybe the bag was tied too tight? I think you need a small gap to ensure carbon dioxide is taken away by the flow of nitrogen. Also, did you make sure to completely empty the bag of as much air as possible and let it fill with nitrogen beforehand? Lastly did you make sure to hyperventilate and then breath out as much as possible before you put the bag over your head?

I don't think the gap in the entrance which is intentionally made is not essential.
I have used a rubber band for handicrafts which is elastic enough to send out dioxide from exit-bag, even if its entrance has been tied tightly.
Also, there must be a slight gap physically between exit-bag entrance and the tube transmitting Nitrogen.
If I made a gap on purpose, the more oxygen would flow into exit-bag.

Did anyone feel fast and peaceful unconscious?
I could find a lot of cases claiming painfulness just before fainting.
Also, a few reports with no pain statement have caught my eyes.
It seems to depend on personal genetic differences, the more gap doesn't make suicide attempter more comfortable in my opinion.

Thanks for your advices guys, but I have to find another way,
Now I am planning to make a small electronic which sprays Nitrogen when I sleep, using a timer switch and solenoid valve.
Also, I am collecting guide information about South America countries such as Peru and Bolivia to obtain N.
Because the D does not respond to my email( I don't know why ) and If D sends me N, it will be censored at customs with high probability in Korea.

 

[anon00]

Did anyone feel fast and peaceful unconscious?

This paper: https://sci-hub.yncjkj.com/10.1136/jme.2009.032490 showed that people wearing a mask fell unconscious without struggle after about 1 minute. A mask isn't recommended though as one of them ended up taking over 37 minutes to stop breathing probably because of a poor fitting mask allowing oxygen to leak in. I think this is why a bag with a constant flow of gas is recommended. I guess if someone was successful they wouldn't be able to report back.