Method Exit bag and inert gas megathread

[Willthishelp?]

do you know goodbye threads of people who were successful with eebd cbt

@Vizzy

Is that the only one? That doesn't sound hopeful..

 

[outrider567]

do you know goodbye threads of people who were successful with eebd cbt

@Vizzy

Is that the only one? That doesn't sound hopeful..

GasMonkey reported a successful CTB with an EEBD Hood and only 15 LPM, and just a 580 Liter Nitrogen gas tank---Also, read Greenberg's posts on the EEBD Hood and flow rate on this thread, I think pages 40 to 60(Do not read anything from a poster named FromGermany, who spread false info)

 

[Willthishelp?]

GasMonkey reported a successful CTB with an EEBD Hood and only 15 LPM, and just a 580 Liter Nitrogen gas tank---Also, read Greenberg's posts on the EEBD Hood and flow rate on this thread, I think pages 40 to 60(Do not read anything from a poster named FromGermany, who spread false info and Greenberg banned him)

Can you post some links to his posts? Tried to find them but can't

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

@GasMonkey is not a huge advocate of SCUBA but if it has positive pressure then it should be viable

Most diving equipement isn't positive pressure. But that doesn't matter. You should verify that the seal is perfect. You can check this by putting the mask against your face and try to breath in. The seal is okay if the mask stays vacuum and no air slips in. I think it's also important to shave on beforehand.
This method is used successful:

What SCUBA equipment do you have? I'd say that a well fine-tuned SCUBA with a comfortable mask is better than the manually crafted ExitBag, it was used by SlovakGuy, likely by @Diver_K_A, and by @LetzteAusfahrt to assist suicide. To use SCUBA apart from the mask you need a regulator (1st stage) and demand valve (2nd stage).

How have you managed to connect the SCUBA mask to a constant flow regulator?


At rest the flow rate needed would be lower probably, but I have never seen a N₂ regulator which such a high flow rate, the highest I have seen was 34 LPM.

 

[Falling Slowly]

Do people favor SCBA/SCUBA/EEBD over the exit bag because they're more reliable? Additionally, after reading PPH I inferred that with the exit bag you can pull it down and take a deep breath and lose consciousness after only a couple breaths whereas SCBA/SCUBA/EEBD takes at least 30 seconds. So with the latter, you are more likely to succeed but have half a minute of discomfort and time to back out (which is I consider a bad thing)? Also SCBA/SCUBA/EEBD needs a higher flow rate (25 lpm vs exit bag 15lpm according to pph)? Please advise in detail and thank you.

It's just click-and-connect/ screw-on with the hood/mask methods, no need to go messing with tubes and creating an exit bag that you hope will have no leaks.

 

[pphinquiry]

Does anyone have any thoughts on using 98.5% purity n2? In America this is the standard for food grade. They said it would probably be above but they couldn't guarantee it.

All of the reasons I can think of to buy it involve food grade and the supplier told me I would need some kind of authorization to get above food grade anyway?

Does anyone know of a use for a regular person to need above food grade nitrogen and/or a reliable method fo obtaining it?

 

[Falling Slowly]

US SCBA:
Drager 2216 psi PAS Lite
Drager FPS 7000(R56200)
CGA-580 to CGA-346 adapter
~2000$

Can those Draeger masks (e.g. the FPS 7000) be connected to a normal nitrogen/Argon regulator(with coupler)? Is their connection on their hose the same CEN-type connection that's on the 3M Scott hood? That pas lite setup to go with the mask is an expensive setup.

US hood setup:
Drager rescue hood~250$
Drager CEJN 344 coupler~140$
ACU-200 reg~100$
Middle adapter(CGA-032 to 1/4 NPT)~15$

Both will kill you,the choice is yours

For a U.S. setup, would you not use a CEJN 340 series coupler, with a 1/4" female thread to screw onto the regulator? Why the need for a middle adapter?

Does anyone have any thoughts on using 98.5% purity n2? In America this is the standard for food grade. They said it would probably be above but they couldn't guarantee it.

All of the reasons I can think of to buy it involve food grade and the supplier told me I would need some kind of authorization to get above food grade anyway?

Does anyone know of a use for a regular person to need above food grade nitrogen and/or a reliable method fo obtaining it?

I'm not in the U.S., in Europe, I picked up a cylinder of pure nitrogen lately and wasn't asked any questions.
As stated in previous posts it can be used for welding, home beer brewing, to name two main ones.

 

[outrider567]

Can you post some links to his posts? Tried to find them but can't

Its on this thread, just go to the top and back up to page 40

 

[outrider567]

Yeah you're right probably now that I think of it it doesn't actually make sense to lose consciousness that fast. Guess I blindly believed that mistake in the handbook. But still the exit bag should be faster right because it is already full of nitrogen whereas the alternatives aren't. Can you answer my other questions? Is the time before you pass out uncomfortable? Are the exit bag alternatives so much more reliable as to be worth the hassle (I'm seeing that the exit bag is just a hose whereas the alternatives require weird connections that kind of confuse me when I read about them earlier in the thread)? Is there a specific EEBD/SCUBA/SCBA that is popular/known to be reliable here?

EEBD hood is as reliable as it gets--Das Nichts is the only poster here that has passed out, nothing was uncomfortable but he added he saw red and green lights

Greenberg hasn't been a mod in this forum. So they couldn't ban anyone even if they wanted to. What are you talking about?

I stand corrected, but my point stands, the poster named FromGermany was full of shit

 

[ztem]

Can those Draeger masks (e.g. the FPS 7000) be connected to a normal nitrogen/Argon regulator(with coupler)? Is their connection on their hose the same CEN-type connection that's on the 3M Scott hood?

You can do that with a 0-10 bar pressure regulator.LDVs need 7-8 bar.You can connect the LDV's plug to the outlet thread of the pressure reg with a CEJN 344 or Rectus 95KS coupler but the LDV's hose is short,you need to make your extension air hose or you have to buy one.EM's SCBA kit was like this but the only difference was that the hose of the lung demand valve was long and the output of their reg was ~4 bar(yeah it was low but looks like it was enough for CTB with the mask).
The 3M Scott's plug is CEJN 340 and no its not the same.

For a U.S. setup, would you not use a CEJN 340 series coupler, with a 1/4" female thread to screw onto the regulator?

If they want to go with the 3M Scott,then yes they need CEJN 340(or G1/4 Rectus 95KS with NPT to G adapter).

Why the need for a middle adapter?

Because there's no CEJN(or Rectus) coupler for the CGA-032(5/8-18) outlet.
In addition to that middle adapter, they also need gas PTFE thread tape.Using PTFE thread tape on tapered threads is a must for a leak-free connection.

 

[Falling Slowly]

You can do that with a 0-10 bar pressure regulator.LDVs need 7-8 bar.You can connect the LDV's plug to the outlet thread of the pressure reg with a CEJN 344 or Rectus 95KS coupler but the LDV's hose is short,you need to make your extension air hose or you have to buy one.EM's SCBA kit was like this but the only difference was that the hose of the lung demand valve was long and the output of their reg was ~4 bar(yeah it was low but looks like it was enough for CTB with the mask).

LDV is the valve part, right?
I'm asking can you just hook up the mask part to a nitrogen/argon regulator via a coupler? Without the need for the expensive ldv part?
As in Draeger 7000 hose >coupler>nitrogen flowmeter regulator. No need for ldv Draeger Pas lite? Obviously it would be more ideal to go with the full Draeger setup if you have the money, but just wondering if you can bypass the ldv part.

The 3M Scott's plug is CEJN 340 and no its not the same.

The Draeger hood plug looks similar to the Scott ELSA hood plug (CEN type) that I have, but maybe a bit shorter. Is it a shorter plug? My hood fits the Rectus 95ks coupler, you seem to be saying above that the Draeger does too?

Because there's no CEJN(or Rectus) coupler for the CGA-032(5/8-18) outlet.

Oh right, I was under the impression that the CEJN 340 series coupler would fit a U.S. standard regulator given that the coupler threads are NPT (American standard).

The Rectus 95ks seems geared towards BSP (British standards).

 

[ztem]

LDV is the valve part, right?
I'm asking can you just hook up the mask part to a nitrogen/argon regulator via a coupler? Without the need for the expensive ldv part?
As in Draeger 7000 hose >coupler>nitrogen flowmeter regulator. No need for ldv Draeger Pas lite?

You can't use a flow regulator with a mask.
How do you want to breath the cylinder's gas without the LDV(lung demand valve)?That hose belongs to the LDV.

The Draeger hood plug looks similar to the Scott ELSA hood plug (CEN type) that I have, but maybe a bit shorter. Is it a shorter plug? My hood fits the Rectus 95ks coupler, you seem to be saying above that the Draeger does too?

The Drager's plug (LDV and hood) is CEJN 344 and it's also compatible with the Rectus 95KS.

The Rectus 95ks seems geared towards BSP (British standards).

The Drager CEJN 344 with 1/4 BSPT thread coupler +NPT to BSPT adapter are also available in the US,they can use that too,the US rescue hood is realy flexible imo.

 

[Falling Slowly]

The Drager's plug (LDV and hood) is CEJN 344 and it's also compatible with the Rectus 95KS.

The Drager CEJN 344 with 1/4 BSPT thread coupler +NPT to BSPT adapter are also available in the US,they can use that too,the US rescue hood is realy flexible imo.

Edit: Ok, on looking up ldv( which I kinda shoulda have done before I last posted) it's the removable valve, which the Draeger 7000 mask is sometimes sold with, but sometimes not.
But the jist of what I was saying, no need for a Draeger Pas lite regulator if you want to save money and use an ordinary regulator with the mask stands, from what you said.

It seems the Scott ELSA and Draeger hood have similar connections. Scott ELSA is compatible with CEJN 340 series and Rectus 95ks series. You say the Draeger works with the Rectus 95ks series and the CEJN 344 series. So all 3 couplers should work with the Draeger and Scott 3M hoses?

 

[Mare Imbrium]

Derek Humphry: Exit bag to inflate below the ears, PPEH: Exit bag above ears. What is your opinion?

 

[Falling Slowly]

Derek Humphry: Exit bag to inflate below the ears, PPEH: Exit bag above ears. What is your opinion?

I think you might be getting too hung up on the small things. Do you mean Derek Humphry (who I've never heard of) said to hold the bag on your head below the ears, then inflate with nitrogen, before pulling down fully? What difference does that make compared to PPEH way?

 

[Mare Imbrium]

F

I think you might be getting too hung up on the small things. Do you mean Derek Humphry (who I've never heard of) said to hold the bag on your head below the ears, then inflate with air, before pulling down fully? What difference does that make compared to PPEH way?

Derek is a pioneer of the exit bag.
You mean inflate with Nitrogen?
Some people have problems to full inflate the bag. This can be a difference.

 

[Falling Slowly]

do you know goodbye threads of people who were successful with eebd cbt

@Vizzy

Vizzy's thread is a good all -round thread about the inert gas method via hood, but some people might be put off by his piece on potentially having to cut hoses and using hose couplings to extend a hose. No need for that, it can be done by click and connect (unless you got a hood without a plug connection). If I could alter one thing about his thread it would be that.

 

[ztem]

So all 3 couplers should work with the Draeger and Scott 3M hoses?

If you're really curious about that, buy the Drager hood and CEJN 340 coupler and you can see if they're compatible.Also you can buy the CEJN 344 coupler for your 3M Scott hood if your are curious about the compatibility of the CEJN 344 and the 3M Scott's plug(CEJN 340).

 

[Falling Slowly]

F
Derek is a pioneer of the exit bag.
You mean inflate with Nitrogen?
Some people have problems to full inflate the bag. This can be a difference.

Sorry, yeah meant nitrogen (have edited it).
Reason I decided to go with a hood was to avoid having to make an exit bag with potential issues.
Are you aware have many on this site had success with the exit bag?

If you're really curious about that, buy the Drager hood and CEJN 340 coupler and you can see if they're compatible.Also you can buy the CEJN 344 coupler for your 3M Scott hood if your are curious about the compatibility of the CEJN 344 and the 3M Scott's plug(CEJN 340).

Not that I'm particularly curious, I just remember before someone mentioning that the Rectus 95 ks and CEJN 344 series couplers were hard come by in the U.S. and very expensive. If a CEJN 340 coupler works for Draeger hood and is easier to get and far cheaper in the U.S , then obviously it would make things easier for U.S. users than sourcing the CEJN 344.

Just trying to make things as easy as possible for people is all....

 

[ztem]

I just remember before someone mentioning that the Rectus 95 ks and CEJN 344 series couplers were hard come by in the U.S. and very expensive. If a CEJN 340 coupler works for Draeger hood and is easier to get and far cheaper in the U.S , then obviously it would make things easier for U.S. users than sourcing the CEJN 344.

Yes ,there's no CEJN 344(or Rectus 95KS) with 1/4 NPT female thread in the US but there's a Drager CEJN 344 with 1/4 NPT female thread,when I sent it to him,he was completely surprised but he was satisfied with his current setup and he didn't want to change it.

 

[Techef]

Not that I'm particularly curious, I just remember before someone mentioning that the Rectus 95 ks and CEJN 344 series couplers were hard come by in the U.S. and very expensive. If a CEJN 340 coupler works for Draeger hood and is easier to get and far cheaper in the U.S , then obviously it would make things easier for U.S. users than sourcing the CEJN 344.

That was me. I had trouble finding CEJN 344 series coupler in US when I called CEJN's official US distributor, but it turns out you can just buy Drager's CEJN 344 style coupler for around ~$130-140 + shipping. I haven't tried purchasing it, so not sure what availability and/or shipping time is like.

Warning (for US people): I DID try purchasing the CEJN 340 coupler for ~$55 from US supplier and had my order canceled. I called to ask why, and they told me for CEJN brand products the minimum order total is $200+; otherwise they won't process/ship order. I complained that this was NOT mentioned during checkout, but complaints fell on deaf ears. I just checked today out of curiosity and they added a warning message about $200+ minimum order policy for CEJN brand products when you try to add CEJN stuff to your cart now. I'm not sure if they always had this policy or if they changed it while my order was processing.

(Thankfully I was able to cancel my order for 3M Scott hood before it shipped, since I was ordering it from abroad and they hadn't shipped yet when I found out my CEJN 340 coupler order was canceled.)

As for Rectus 95KS couplers - I haven't found any US source that sell these, but found plenty of UK suppliers. Then you can purchase a BSP to NPT adapter.

 

[DeadHead]

Total bullshit, I've self tested many times with Exit Bags and EEBD Hood, taken 5 breaths and never came close to passing out, all but one time were at 15 LPM, and once at 25 LPM--Ask Dach Nichts how many breaths he took before he passed out(25 LPM)

This concerns me, how many breaths would you say it takes with an exit bag? Honestly pph has no credibility and this perfectly illustrates why. I mean if you're expecting to be out in 2 breaths and you're not, you may think something is wrong (bag leaking) and abandon your plan unnecessarily.

 

[pphinquiry]

Can those Draeger masks (e.g. the FPS 7000) be connected to a normal nitrogen/Argon regulator(with coupler)? Is their connection on their hose the same CEN-type connection that's on the 3M Scott hood? That pas lite setup to go with the mask is an expensive setup.


For a U.S. setup, would you not use a CEJN 340 series coupler, with a 1/4" female thread to screw onto the regulator? Why the need for a middle adapter?

I'm not in the U.S., in Europe, I picked up a cylinder of pure nitrogen lately and wasn't asked any questions.
As stated in previous posts it can be used for welding, home beer brewing, to name two main ones.

Theres really no such thing as "pure ". It all has contaminants.

The trouble is, if your backstory is around food, I can't think of any reason why youd be very picky about above 98.5.

In my experience the vendors usually want to discuss what you are doing with it. Especially if you start making specific requests like wanting high purity.

 

[Falling Slowly]

Theres really no such thing as "pure ". It all has contaminants.

The trouble is, if your backstory is around food, I can't think of any reason why youd be very picky about above 98.5.

In my experience the vendors usually want to discuss what you are doing with it. Especially if you start making specific requests like wanting high purity.

"Pure" was the wrong word, I meant the nitrogen I got is not mixed in with other gases. I presume 98.5% you talk of is fine.

Others have commented on this thread that they weren't asked about their use of the nitrogen when purchasing. Depends on the vendor I guess, but you've got reasons to give them anyway if asked.

 

[Falling Slowly]

Having a little trouble understanding the cylinder sizes. Is this sufficient?

The cylinder sizes can be a bit confusing alright. The cylinders are usually given by litre size (or in cubic metres/feet), but the actual amount of compressed gas in the cylinder is different.
Going by the PPH, a 2 litre cylinder at 200 bar gives 400 litres of compressed nitrogen, which gives ~30 mins of nitrogen @15 litres per minute.

I haven't come across that cylinder description before that you link. It states:




Water volume= 5.9 litres. Is it a ~6 litre tank? If it is, it's plenty enough.
U.S. users may be familiar with this type of tank measurement (33A).

 

[ipmanwc0]

Should I buy a regulator that you can set lpm directly or one with lpm flow meter

 

[Falling Slowly]

Should I buy a regulator that you can set lpm directly or one with lpm flow meter

Do you mean a regulator with LPM on a guage versus one with LPM floating ball flowmeter?
Shouldn't matter.

 

[NoFutureAnymore]

Please stop mentioning the sources. It's against the forum rules and prolifers are reading this to. They contact the suppliers and make our lives even more difficult.

 

[Willthishelp?]

@TiredHorse hasn't posted in 4 years, he's not gonna reply you, he's no longer around.

Did he ctb with gas or failed?

 

[unebarque]

Hi guys, if I am using a 50 PSI flow meter and a separate regulator, should the order of operations be (1) open the gas valve (2) adjust pressure to 50 PSI on the regulator (3) adjust the flow meter knob to 15LPM (equivalent to ~32 CFH)?