Help "Evil’ suicide forum encouraged woman to kill herself"

[wonderworld]

been on deep dive and saw this article
https://nypost.com/2019/05/30/evil-suicide-forum-encouraged-woman-to-kill-herself-relatives-say/
was wondering if the 'evil' site is us, her name was Shawn Shatto and was 25 when she passed

 

[Life_and_Death]

most likely. although reading the article i just did, i understand why everyone hates us. it looks really bad

Did a suicide website contribute to a young woman's death? Her family believes so.

Shawn Shatto, who suffered from severe depression and anxiety, took her own life by following instructions on a suicide online forum, her family says.

www.ydr.com

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

If you do a site search you'll see that, yes, it's about this site and Shawn's mother's still-active crusade has been discussed quite a lot since Shawn died.

 

[wonderworld]

does anyone know what shawn's username / forum she last posted on ?

 

[Soul]

She had a Japanese-sounding name, but I believe all her posts have been deleted.

I remember she posted more than once about hating her job and the fact that she had to work. If memory serves she had a job in an amazon warehouse. Isn't that an employer with an unusually high suicide rate among its employees? I wonder if the mother has an ongoing campaign to stop them as well.

 

[Life_and_Death]

Yes, that young woman was briefly a member here. But why does her story keep coming up?

because everyones blaming us for her death and not wondering why she was here to begin with

 

[Broken Chimera]

Yes, that young woman was briefly a member here. But why does her story keep coming up?

Because her mom has made it her life's mission to shut this place down. And she created a petition to try to do it.

 

[Life_and_Death]

Because her mom has made it her life's mission to shut this place down. And she created a petition to try to do it.

im curious...do you guys think she'll succeed? i hope not. i hope they take the time to look into it for themselves and see how nice we actually are :) <3

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

She had a Japanese-sounding name, but I believe all her posts have been deleted.

I remember she posted more than once about hating her job and the fact that she had to work. If memory serves she had a job in an amazon warehouse. Isn't that an employer with an unusually high suicide rate among its employees? Does the mother have an ongoing campaign to stop them?

I use to work in a warehouse unrelated to Amazon and it was pretty much like slave labor; I can only imagine that Amazon is worse because of the demand for fast shipping. I've always been suicidal but working in that warehouse made me want to hang myself on the spot after every shift.

I highly doubt wage slavery is the only reason she committed suicide though.

 

[InTheAirTonight]

does anyone know what shawn's username / forum she last posted on ?

Her username was @Kakabushi

 

[Anonymoussn]

This is just click bait nonsense, designed to feed into the moral panic about suicide, and the fears that parents have about their own children committing suicide.

And the quotes from the mother are not an accurate representation of what this site is all about. I dont blame her. She has a right to be depressed and angry about her daughter passing away - but she has misunderstood the point of this site.

'No-one gave her an option to live or for help'
'Not one person said that there is another way.'

I am pro-choice, but I always encourage people to make the right choice. If they seem doubtful, or have told their story and sound to me like there is hope that they can turn their life around, I will always tell them. And I know that there are other people on here who do the same on every goodbye thread.

I cannot find this members account, so I cant check that she was 'given an option' to live, but I can say with almost certainty that it will have been made clear to her that she doesnt have to do anything. I have never seen anyone encourage death on this forum. Members here just educate and encourage people to make their own informed decision.

 

[_Minsk]

no person who's happy with life would search for how to commit suicide or any forums. and then there are these people who blame places like this, its hilarious, how can people be that way, i don't get it..

 

[Saed]

See,this is the part that somewhat intrigues me.
The deaths of these young ladies (at least 2 were members here) were plastered all over the media. With such a blazing intent to outlaw this website,it's curious that they don't make it their business to track every single ctb.
1,Investigative journalism is dead
2,Forum users were careful to kick over the traces
3,They don't want to put a novel method of ctb into the mainstream conciousness
4,They realised they were actually showing desperate people they do have a place to go
5,Someone with a brain decided that keeping most people wanting to ctb within a supportive community actually made them less likely to ctb

As someone pointed out. Don't blame the site. Try to understand what drew them here in the first place.

 

[Broken Chimera]

im curious...do you guys think she'll succeed? i hope not. i hope they take the time to look into it for themselves and see how nice we actually are :) <3

A lot of us have been outspoken on where we stand on her crusade as she's always watching us. As for taking the site down, unless she figures out how to take out the dark web her chances are minimal at best. She needs to realize that the web site didn't make her do it, she was already there before she ever came here. She was hurting way earlier than that.

She doesn't care about the regular users here. She only cares about getting revenge on "the evil site that took her baby from her." She wouldn't care if people resorted to more brutal methods to end their lives or that people wouldn't be able to talk about their problems without being threatened with getting locked up for being honest. That's why the recovery section is never brought up in any of the interviews, it doesn't fit with the narrative.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

'No-one gave her an option to live or for help'
'Not one person said that there is another way.'

I am pro-choice, but I always encourage people to make the right choice. If they seem doubtful, or have told their story and sound to me like there is hope that they can turn their life around, I will always tell them. And I know that there are other people on here who do the same on every goodbye thread.

I cannot find this members account, so I cant check that she was 'given an option' to live, but I can say with almost certainty that it will have been made clear to her that she doesnt have to do anything. I have never seen anyone encourage death on this forum. Members here just educate and encourage people to make their own informed decision.

Shawn's user name was identified by the site owners in links further below as @Kakabushi. The following is a site search of her name and links to her threads which were not deleted. Her goodbye thread is not one of them. There are only two threads by her, with a total of five posts by her. If she commented on other threads, the posts were deleted.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/search/340152/

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/primperan-before-sn.16478/#post-312916

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/fuck-work.14859/#post-287997

This is the official stance of the site owners:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...nts-made-about-this-forum-in-the-media.22851/

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/a-thorough-story-on-shawn-shatto.19958/post-379660

The site owners elected to delete most of the member's posts, including her goodbye thread. Therefore, an audience who chooses to follow up on such claims as quoted by @Anonymoussn can only rely on the interpretations of Shawn's mother and others who do not represent SS, nor engage SS in the conversation to present a full picture, as there is no longer evidence to refute them, with the exception of the posts that were left up, ostensibly unedited, and any comments that were left on them. Without the goodbye thread, there is no way to provide an evidential defense against the accusations, nor to prove they are accurate.

Here is the comment where it was announced that most of her posts were deleted:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...out-this-forum-in-the-media.22851/post-422005

 

[Grey-zone]

been on deep dive and saw this article
https://nypost.com/2019/05/30/evil-suicide-forum-encouraged-woman-to-kill-herself-relatives-say/
was wondering if the 'evil' site is us, her name was Shawn Shatto and was 25 when she passed

That article is more than a year old, and from the "renowned" NY Post. The penultimate paragraph though quotes the forum admin. I would say it's more balanced than I was expecting, aside from the mother's perspective--which, you know, is hard not to include in an article like that. And it doesn't sound like the county law enforcement ended up doing anything. Future action can't be entirely ruled out, but almost certainly not over this case. I'm actually surprised this forum hasn't gotten more press attention. It seems journalism tries hard to avoid straying from vague pronouncements about mental health.
This from the other article posted:
"The 25-year-old woman had been in pain for some time, suffering from severe depression and anxiety. She had sought help, her mother said, seeking treatment for her illness from doctors and therapists, even a hypnotherapist. None of it seemed to ease the pain."
I hope the readers of that newspaper could read between the lines there. The "treatments" weren't working, and she was passing her youth in despair and hopelessness. In the early 21st century we simply don't have any genuine cures for long-term mental distress. It's as simple as that.

 

[person123]

Why were her posts deleted?

 

[Deleted member 17949]

Welcome back to another episode of "lets blame everything except the things that made this person want to die"

 

[ebt88]

The forum did contribute with the suicide, she got the recipe here and likely some implicit/explicit validation. Though as many point out it makes no sense to hold it liable. It wasn't "the" cause. She could got the same from a fictional novel or movie.

 

[TotallyIsolated]

Statistically speaking its more likely that her mother contributed more to her suicide than this site did.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Why were her posts deleted?

In the links I provided, I don't recall that an explanation was given.

 

[Anonymoussn]

Shawn's user name was identified by the site owners in links further below as @Kakabushi. The following is a site search of her name an links to her threads which were not deleted. Her goodbye thread is not one of them. There are only two threads by her, with a total of five posts by her. If she commented on other threads, the posts were deleted.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/search/340152/

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/primperan-before-sn.16478/#post-312916

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/fuck-work.14859/#post-287997

This is the official stance of the site owners:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...nts-made-about-this-forum-in-the-media.22851/

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/a-thorough-story-on-shawn-shatto.19958/post-379660

The site owners elected to delete most of the member's posts, including her goodbye thread. Therefore, an audience who chooses to follow up on such claims as quoted by @Anonymoussn can only rely on the interpretations of Shawn's mother and others who do not represent SS, nor engage SS in the conversation to present a full picture, as there is no longer evidence to refute them, with the exception of the posts that were left up, ostensibly unedited, and any comments that were left on them. Without the goodbye thread, there is no way to provide an evidential defense against the accusations, nor to prove they are accurate.

Here is the comment where it was announced that most of her posts were deleted:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...out-this-forum-in-the-media.22851/post-422005

Ahh I had no idea most of her posts were deleted. I apologise, I had assumed someone would link to her profile and this would either be verifiable, or someone would correct me. I definitely jumped the gun on making the assumption she was given another option. Thanks for clearing that up.

It's worth pointing out that in one of the posts Marquis made, which you have linked to, he stated that they were taking legal action against the news outlets for claiming that members here encouraged her death, which he assured us was false.

Based on this, I still believe she missed the point of what the site is all about, and the way in which other members interacted with her daughter.

She claims, for example, that members here were "cheering her on to the finish line of a suicide." This contradicts what Marquis said, and also contradicts the forum rules, and the experiences we have had on this forum. And I think this narrative that we are 'cheering people on' is exactly what makes pro-lifers so angry with this forum, because they think that we promote and are to blame for death.

 

[Soul]

Because her mom has made it her life's mission to shut this place down. And she created a petition to try to do it.

Right, I'm cognizant. I just don't understand why it keeps cropping up here on the forum.

Maybe our esteemed admins and mods could add a press archive to the resources, for newer members who are curious.

She claims, for example, that members here were "cheering her on to the finish line of a suicide." This contradicts what Marquis said, and also contradicts the forum rules, and the experiences we have had on this forum. And I think this narrative that we are 'cheering people on' is exactly what makes pro-lifers so angry with this forum, because they think that we promote and are to blame for death.

Some anti-choicers have misread "good luck" on a goodbye thread as "cheering smb on". Some also got very upset the term "successful" being used when a member killed themselves without making errors or being interfered with.

To be fair, though: The anti-choice attention following this young woman's death has had an impact on the forum. There was no "recovery" section back then. And many people do now make a point of asking people if they've tried x y and z, or telling them not to rush into it, etc. That wasn't always so much the norm here - although I can confirm that no one here was encouraging this young woman to kill herself.

 

[thereandgone]

Statistically speaking its more likely that her mother contributed more to her suicide than this site did.

1000% agree. It seems parents do some really messed up things to their own children (at least in the States). Even though they were close and amicable, that doesn't mean that there wasn't something else going on with the family dynamic. No one could really say for certain what was going on in that girl's life--including her own mother. Also, her being a member of this site was an effect, not a cause of her condition.

 

[omoidarui]

The site owners elected to delete most of the member's posts, including her goodbye thread. Therefore, an audience who chooses to follow up on such claims as quoted by @Anonymoussn can only rely on the interpretations of Shawn's mother and others who do not represent SS, nor engage SS in the conversation to present a full picture, as there is no longer evidence to refute them, with the exception of the posts that were left up, ostensibly unedited, and any comments that were left on them. Without the goodbye thread, there is no way to provide an evidential defense against the accusations, nor to prove they are accurate.

The Goodbye topic is available by a Google search because someone appears to have archived it and other 'controversial' postings around the forum

Mods, if this infringes any rules, please feel free to remove. I think it's beneficial for newer members enquiring about this to be able to form their own opinions based on the evidence and the policy on the deletion of Goodbye topics has been lifted since last May, so I assume it's fine to repost this.

About to take SN

Just took 60mg of primperan now I just gotta wait 40 minutes to take the SN. Am also going to take Tagamet pretty soon

archive.st

 

[MaisieWilliamsLover]

im curious...do you guys think she'll succeed? i hope not. i hope they take the time to look into it for themselves and see how nice we actually are :) <3

It is very doubtful that she will succeed.

 

[KiraComplex]

It is very doubtful that she will succeed.

and if she does, we'll relocate as always. forums are lizards, cut off the tail and itll grow back.

 

[lostangel]

I've seen that before, yeah it's just click bait nonsense. Nothing to stress about I have faith in the mods.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

The Goodbye topic is available by a Google search because someone appears to have archived it and other 'controversial' postings around the forum

Mods, if this infringes any rules, please feel free to remove. I think it's beneficial for newer members enquiring about this to be able to form their own opinions based on the evidence and the policy on the deletion of Goodbye topics has been lifted since last May, so I assume it's fine to repost this.

About to take SN

Just took 60mg of primperan now I just gotta wait 40 minutes to take the SN. Am also going to take Tagamet pretty soon

archive.st

Thank you for sharing this.

I read through the archived thread and, assuming it's accurate, then no, @Anonymoussn and @ everyone else following this thread, the mother's assertion is correct that "No-one gave her an option to live or for help" and "Not one person said that there is another way."

I looked at Shawn's other threads. The one in which she talked about work being her primary reason to die, one person did ask her if she'd pursued a college degree. There are still three posts unaccounted for, but based on the five posts still on the forum, and the three in the archived goodbye thread, it is only slightly inaccurate that no one made suggestions to the member to seek alternatives to ctb; one person suggested collge, but not in the goodbye thread.

Assuming the archive is accurate, the member's mother read the goodbye thread and posted screenshots of it on Facebook. Also assuming the archive is accurate, a family member created an account, @Curious1983, and posted on that goodbye thread:

I'm a family member of this girl and yes it was successful but I can tell you how it feels it feels horrible for everybody who is Left Behind it feels absolutely Unthinkable for her mother and her brothers and sister and her dad and her stepdad and her aunts and uncles and cousins it is heartbreaking is devastating it is the worst pain you could ever ever imagine. For all of those out there feeling like this is the only way think about all the people you are leaving behind the people who would do anything and everything to make it better for you. so instead of encouraging these people to feel like this is the only way out how about let's encourage them to get help and to know that there are other ways. And the worst part of it it she had to find this post and that people were encouraging her daughter to take her life instead of helping her. Completely undoing everything her family had been doing.​

I note the last sentence: "Completely undoing everything her family had been doing." As I mentioned in a recent comment on a related thread, this is about one thinking they have the ability to control another. They were ultimately not able to control anything about Shawn, whether finding or providing solutions to her problems, or convincing her to comply with their desires to keep making the efforts they wanted and to keep living. She made a different choice about her own well-being.

I also note that @Curious1983 made a plea for those considering suicide to consider the feelings of those who would be impacted. I recognize that family members were indeed impacted and tried to help, and I don't fault them at all. Sometimes in life our efforts fail, but that does not negate them, nor take away the value of good and honorable intentions. I note that there is accusation and blame in the quote, in that SS members undid the efforts of the family. This highlights influence with intention to control another's actions or outcomes, and clinging to those intentions as well as the views which inspired them and the actions that followed. It pitches a non-existing battle that SS members infiltrated the family's efforts and sabotaged them, when in fact, Shawn chose to no longer participate in those efforts, chose to join this site to get information and support for ending her life, and chose to end her life. There is no blame in this, either, but in order to discharge discomfort and regain a sense of rightness and control, blame is repeatedly cast our way. My post that I linked in a paragraph above further explains this in the context of loss due to another's suicide if anyone is interested in pursuing.

Finally, I note that, if the archive is accurate, this was the response of the site owner to @Curious1983:

I'm very sorry for your loss.​

​

I want to make one thing very clear here: Noone was encouraging her to take her life here. This isn't a pro-suicide forum, it's a pro-choice one, meaning either way we will support your decision.​

That statement was accurate when applied to the comments on the goodbye thread. And that is one reason why legitimate members join: to have their autonomy and their self-determined choices supported. Whether one chooses to suicide or to live, either choice is for the most part supported here, and those who don't support either decision usually speak from their personal perspectives and agendas, not from the pro-choice foundation of this site.

It's natural for people to try to influence others to do as they would want them to do or would themselves do, but when one recognizes they do not have control over another, they can accept, or they can battle. It seems that Shawn's family chooses to battle, but it will not undo the fact that Shawn and every person who comes to SS is not under their control. If they succeed in their battle against the site, it will not change that they cannot control others' decisions and actions. The true battle is for acceptance or denial about others' autonomy and self-determination, whether Shawn's, other site members', or the site owners'. It is an internal battle every person encounters, and acceptance is the most difficult and yet most rational and healing stance to take, because denial does not change what one wants to be changed.

One may be able to influence for a while, but they do not have the capacity to control it, and non-acceptance of this causes confusion, strong negative emotions, and actions based on greed, illusion, and/or hatred in order to control and to oppress. Every person wants freedom and resents being controlled, but it is hard for the one who wants to control to see that, because they are focused on the greed for control, the delusion of being in control, and hatred for not being able to control.

Of course there are other perspectives, mine is not all-encompassing, but it serves me well in helping me to recognize when issues of control are at play, and to rein myself in when I find I am moving from intentions of support to intentions of influence for external control. I am often uncomfortable with others' autonomous actions, but part of acceptance is dealing with that discomfort, which is within my power to work with and to affect. I am not perfect and never will be, but damn I try hard to be aware and keep myself in check so that I don't do to others what I hated having done to me. After a lifetime of fighting for self-control, I've learned a few things, and I value the lessons of accepting discomfort, maintaining awareness of efforts to negate and to control me, and striving to be aware when I myself am being unaccepting and controlling.

 

[Anonymoussn]

The Goodbye topic is available by a Google search because someone appears to have archived it and other 'controversial' postings around the forum

Mods, if this infringes any rules, please feel free to remove. I think it's beneficial for newer members enquiring about this to be able to form their own opinions based on the evidence and the policy on the deletion of Goodbye topics has been lifted since last May, so I assume it's fine to repost this.

About to take SN

Just took 60mg of primperan now I just gotta wait 40 minutes to take the SN. Am also going to take Tagamet pretty soon

archive.st

Thanks for sharing this. What I found the most shocking is that she only had 11 posts. I had been under the assumption based on the stuff her mother was saying that she must have been a more active member of the community.

It's not exactly like after 11 posts anyone had much chance to engage with her to 'give her another option'.