Dying in a righteous armed struggle

[Lucilius]

Back in the day I thought it might be a reasonable thing for someone like me to go die fighting against ISIS in Rojava. Why leave anxiously monitoring a pulse oximeter, when you can die fighting fascism? I don't want to go away with the feeling of having been a useless coward and it's not like I have any useful qualities other than my desire to die.

 

[Someone123]

Ukraine is an option for some people, but I don't think it would be easy to be accepted there, how could they be sure you were on their side?

 

[actual_fox]

it's not like I have any useful qualities other than my desire to die.

Do you have enough courage and strength to fight isis? I had the same thought but I do not think I would be good soldier. How can I fight and be useful when I can barely menage my landary and house chores? If you are motivated and strong but depressed type of guy then yeah go for It. But It won't be a nice way to go.

 

[Someone123]

Do you have enough courage and strength to fight isis? I had the same thought but I do not think I would be good soldier. How can I fight and be useful when I can barely menage my landary and house chores? If you are motivated and strong but depressed type of guy then yeah go for It. But It won't be a nice way to go.

I do think the low energy from depression would prevent people from doing this, you'd have to go through a lot to finally get in a situation where you could sacrifice yourself to help others.

 

[Lucilius]

I am not physically strong at all, but neither were some of the women who were fighting against ISIS. There are many roles to play in that kind of situation which require more recklessness than physical strength. I have my ups and downs. I know that kind of environment would set me on an up, at least temporarily.

 

[Someone123]

I am not physically strong at all, but neither were some of the women who were fighting against ISIS. There are many roles to play in that kind of situation which require more recklessness than physical strength. I have my ups and downs. I know that kind of environment would set me on an up, at least temporarily.

If you could get into a situation like that it would take weeks of training- could you stay up for that long, without showing any signs of depression- if people see you cry even once or look sad even you would likely be gone. Considering that lots of people would be around at any time it seems tough to do- maybe you could do it, not sure, it sounds tough.

 

[OverBeforeStart]

Funny how righteous is a word that can be applied to something and its opposite. you and I might be on opposite sides but equally hold a strong belief that "my cause is righteous". I am not for ISIS don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't fight for whatever it is your fighting for. Remember when your fighting against something your also fighting for something else, whether you realize it or not, a civilization that wants you dead or a slave for example.

 

[Lucilius]

Well it's not as if you cannot fight against ISIS as an anarchist or anticapitalist. I mean, how far do you want to ride that argument?

 

[Teddybear]

"No soldier has ever won a war by dying for his country. You win wars by making the other guy die for his" - George S. Patton

I highly doubt that any reasonable force is looking for volunteers with self-destructive tendencies to join their ranks.

 

[Lucilius]

I highly doubt that any reasonable force is looking for volunteers with self-destrucitve tendencies to join their ranks.

Bunch of Debbie Downers down here, huh. Wasn't expecting.

 

[Someone123]

Bunch of Debbie Downers down here, huh. Wasn't expecting.

It is a noble idea, it just may not be practical- you deserve credit for good intentions, but it may not be feasible to actually do.

 

[Teddybear]

Bunch of Debbie Downers down here, huh. Wasn't expecting.

Armies in need of volunteers seek help in winning a war and protecting their civilian population. If you were a frontline soldier would you want to serve next to a guy hellbent on getting himself killed?

 

[Lucilius]

Armies in need of volunteers seek help in winning a war and protecting their civilian population. If you were a frontline soldier would you want to serve next to a guy hellbent on getting himself killed?

They can send this kind of person out to risky scouting or decoy missions, etc. Wanting to die does not necessarily mean having no being impulsive and putting the people around you or innocent civilians at risk.

 

[Teddybear]

They can send this kind of person out to risky scouting or decoy missions, etc. Wanting to die does not necessarily mean having no being impulsive and putting the people around you or innocent civilians at risk.

If you won't accept the advise of a known expert in matters of war like Patton then there is nothing I can do about it. But I can tell you that my family knows (civil) war first hand and so let me assure you that nobody wants to be next to a dude with hero ambitions when the shooting starts.

But you go and knock yourself out. Just make sure your commanding officer doesn't realize he's sending a kamikaze candidate on an important scouting mission.

 

[Someone123]

If you won't accept the advise of a known expert in matters of war like Patton then there is nothing I can do about it. But I can tell you that my family knows (civil) war first hand and so let me assure you that nobody wants to be next to a dude with hero ambitions when the shooting starts.

But you go and knock yourself out. Just make sure your commanding officer doesn't realize he's sending a kamikaze candidate on an important scouting mission.

Honestly, it'll never get to this, this person has an idea, but there won't be a practical way to follow through. It's a noble idea, to try to sacrifice yourelf for the good of others, as long as you want to leave already, but it just won't be a practical thing to actually do- way to many hoops to jump through to try to find something like this.

 

[Teddybear]

Honestly, it'll never get to this, this person has an idea, but there won't be a practical way to follow through. It's a noble idea, to try to sacrifice yourelf for the good of others, as long as you want to leave already, but it just won't be a practical thing to actually do- way to many hoops to jump through to try to find something like this.

Sorry, but I have to digress. For the army you happen to deceive like that there is nothing "noble" about a recruit who only seeks to "sacrifice himself for the cause". Not unless you join Al Queda or Isis.

Real armies want to win real wars and they require soldiers willing to kill the enemy - not seeking an opportunity to get themselves smashed to pieces. For any commanding officer a dead soldier is just a waste of flesh, resources and the time it took to train that dude. Dead soldiers kill no enemy, dead soldiers hold back no tanks and most importantly: The dead help win no victory.

 

[Forest Fire]

It's not quite the same but a few months ago at work there was a load of screaming and commotion and it turned out there was a semi naked man in the car park, armed with a machete and blood all down him. Before we knew what was properly going on, my instant reaction was if he's attacking people then this is a golden opportunity to ctb whilst appearing to be brave rather than a coward jumping off a cliff because i can't handle my life.
Turned out he weren't attacking anyone other than himself so i didn't get the opportunity.
I feel like i can understand your sentiment OP, just in my opinion the army wouldn't be the place to do it as people on your side are depending on you and i'd imagine you would need everyone to be on the same wavelength.

 

[Someone123]

Sorry, but I have to digress. For the army you happen to deceive like that there is nothing "noble" about a recruit who only seeks to "sacrifice himself for the cause". Not unless you join Al Queda or Isis.

Real armies want to win real wars and they require soldiers willing to kill the enemy - not seeking an opportunity to get themselves smashed to pieces. For any commanding officer a dead soldier is just a waste of flesh, resources and the time it took to train that dude. Dead soldiers kill no enemy, dead soldiers hold back no tanks and most importantly: The dead help win no victory.

That's all true, but I don't think O.P. thought of all this- I think they thought- this can be a win-win- I can leave, and I can help someone in doing so- I don't think they thought this through. So I still think they had good intentions even though it wouldn't be good to actually do this.

 

[mateodolores]

Back in the day I thought it might be a reasonable thing for someone like me to go die fighting against ISIS in Rojava. Why leave anxiously monitoring a pulse oximeter, when you can die fighting fascism? I don't want to go away with the feeling of having been a useless coward and it's not like I have any useful qualities other than my desire to die.

I've had a dream like this. I can fight to liberate people and I can also be liberated from life in the process. Win-win, really. However, do to my physical and mental defects, I realized that it was a pipe dream. It was a juvenile thought born from desperation.

I'm still a staunch antifascist and do what I can directly (volunteering, speaking to community leaders, etc.) I want to help people, but I don't want to go through the unnecessary steps that may not benefit anyone (I'm not strong enough to fight in a war. No self-respecting army would want me, even as cannon fodder.)

With that being said, I don't believe I'll die uselessly for my efforts, no matter how small, have an impact as with everyone's else's.

 

[Seiko]

"No soldier has ever won a war by dying for his country. You win wars by making the other guy die for his" - George S. Patton

I highly doubt that any reasonable force is looking for volunteers with self-destructive tendencies to join their ranks.

Always saw that fire quote in MW2.

 

[Lucilius]

Sorry, but I have to digress. For the army you happen to deceive like that there is nothing "noble" about a recruit who only seeks to "sacrifice himself for the cause". Not unless you join Al Queda or Isis

Again, wanting to die does not mean being in a hurry to die. You keep assuming a complete lack of judgement and self control.

Many armies in the past have resorted to human wave tactics at particular points in time. The battle for Madrid, Stalingrad, the Iran-Iraq war.
And there are always things one can do that are extremely risky and high reward, including sabotage operations behind enemy lines. How was the Kerch bridge blown up? Was the driver of the truck a helpless victim of the operation or someone who actually was on board with it and ready to die?

 

[Teddybear]

Again, wanting to die does not mean being in a hurry to die. You keep assuming a complete lack of judgement and self control.

Many armies in the past have resorted to human wave tactics at particular points in time. The battle for Madrid, Stalingrad, the Iran-Iraq war.
And there are always things one can do that are extremely risky and high reward, including sabotage operations behind enemy lines. How was the Kerch bridge blown up? Was the driver of the truck a helpless victim of the operation or someone who actually was on board with it and ready to die?

Not sure in how many wars you've participated but the armies that employed "human wave tactics" regularly lost those battles and in most cases they lost the conflict they were fighting in, too.

You demonstrate why Al-Queda lost after 9/11 and why Isis couldn't hold on to the vast territory they had conquered: Dead people are just dead. They climb no barricades, they storm no gates, they claw no victory from the jaws of defeat.

The Read Army could have easily beaten the Germans as far back as 1943, if not for Stalin's homicidal insistence on sacrificing one army after another in head on engagements. But "Uncle Joe" was able to learn from his bloody mistakes, while Adolf was not. So the Nazis kept wasting hundreds of thousands of their troops in frontal assaults, as did the Japanese. Guess who who won that war?

Patton's side did. But you go to Ukraine and tell them that you are eager to die for their cause and then come back here and tell us what they told you.
If you are a soldier on the battle field you have just 1 thought on your mind: "Better him (the enemy) than me!"
The last thing you would want is the guy next to you thinking: "Now how can I get myself killed here asap?"

 

[Lucilius]

Look, when the fascists first attacked Madrid there was no time nor resources to organise the theoretically superior plan with ideally trained soldiers to defend it. Something had to be done in the moment.
The same applied to other situations.

I've just given you an example of how Ukraine used an explosive truck driven by an unwitting civilian (not cool) to sabotage a bridge and you keep going on and on about Patton, talking about gates and barricades, assuming no self control or judgement on the part of the person who wants to die (you have done this over and over and over and over) and ignoring the fact we are not talking about an entire army composed of such people nor about planning entire conflicts on that basis. We are not even talking about one suicidal combattant vs a normal one, but about one such combattant vs none.
The US Army with their superior tactics and technology has been systematically unable to hold any land anywhere long term against guerrilla resistance.

 

[temporal_anchorite]

It's not quite the same but a few months ago at work there was a load of screaming and commotion and it turned out there was a semi naked man in the car park, armed with a machete and blood all down him. Before we knew what was properly going on, my instant reaction was if he's attacking people then this is a golden opportunity to ctb whilst appearing to be brave rather than a coward jumping off a cliff because i can't handle my life.
Turned out he weren't attacking anyone other than himself so i didn't get the opportunity.
I feel like i can understand your sentiment OP, just in my opinion the army wouldn't be the place to do it as people on your side are depending on you and i'd imagine you would need everyone to be on the same wavelength.

Honestly can't say I had, "hacked & slashed by a partially nude machete-wielding car park maniac", on my CTB method bingo card.

 

[Someone123]

Look, when the fascists first attacked Madrid there was no time nor resources to organise the theoretically superior plan with ideally trained soldiers to defend it. Something had to be done in the moment.
The same applied to other situations.

I've just given you an example of how Ukraine used an explosive truck driven by an unwitting civilian (not cool) to sabotage a bridge and you keep going on and on about Patton, talking about gates and barricades, assuming no self control or judgement on the part of the person who wants to die (you have done this over and over and over and over) and ignoring the fact we are not talking about an entire army composed of such people nor about planning entire conflicts on that basis. We are not even talking about one suicidal combattant vs a normal one, but about one such combattant vs none.
The US Army with their superior tactics and technology has been systematically unable to hold any land anywhere long term against guerrilla resistance.

Do you really think you can get in a situatino to do this? It seems so unlikely, it would take a determined effort over a long period of time, under very high stress conditions, all while showing no signs of depression while actually being severely depressed- I do believe you have good intentions, but it seems so unlikely to actually happen. If you want to leave this world I would consider other methods.

 

[Ligottian]

The Japanese kamikaze pilots believed they would become godlings in the Shinto pantheon after they completed their missions. That would have motivated me if I believed it.