Discussion Don’t feel guilty for wanting to end your own suffering, because we live in a pro-life society.

[weargon]

Ze Suffering Olympics... You vake up, you aaare in a race, a race to ze finish zat you cannot voluntarily resign, ze finish being... Death. Vhyy doo vee participate in such a a bleak event? Nobody caaan ansveh me. Nobody even knows zey are part of eet. Yet alas ve all share brief moments of mutal understanding sroughout our lives visout realizing ze great blunder zaat is our existence.

I can already see this being Werner Herzog's next documentary. Lol!

 

[Taylor]

Ze Suffering Olympics... You vake up, you aaare in a race, a race to ze finish zat you cannot voluntarily resign, ze finish being... Death. Vhyy doo vee participate in such a a bleak event? Nobody caaan ansveh me. Nobody even knows zey are part of eet. Yet alas ve all share brief moments of mutal understanding sroughout our lives visout realizing ze great blunder zaat is our existence.

I can already see this being Werner Herzog's next documentary. Lol!

I'd drink to that, haha. Could you imagine living in the 1800's, where in that time surgeons were just figuring out they should wash their hands at least before a surgery? I mean what a horrifying existence, at least we didn't have to live in that time period. Granted, I probably would've offed myself around my 20's in that time too, when I felt my natural decline approaching, but still lol.

 

[weargon]

Yeah, there's definitely pros and cons to every time period. I don't know what's worse, being charged 50k for basic emergency care or having a doctor molest your organs with his dick beaters that he just used to pick his butt-crack with. Though if you really want to feel good about yourself, I'm sure there's people out there today that get both options at once lol.

 

[Taylor]

Yeah, there's definitely pros and cons to every time period. I don't know what's worse, being charged 50k for basic emergency care or having a doctor molest your organs with his dick beaters that he just used to pick his butt-crack with. Though if you really want to feel good about yourself, I'm sure there's people out there today that get both options at once lol.

 

[Taylor]

As a mechanic, I take offense at not wanting to extend the life of your vehicle haha. Cars can become amazing things with enough care. Nobody ever gets a heart attack or a stroke, gets a transplant, some much needed care, and becomes a world class athlete afterwards. Material things can always be improved to no end. Organisms though, usually go one way in general. If anything, their demise just gets postponed. The two should not be classified in the same sense.

Oh yeah I should also mention that I added the car bit in there for a relatable joke, obviously I know that's not correct to assume material things and vertebrates are principally the same. Good discussion though, nonetheless.

 

[lost_soul83]

Oh and just so everyone knows, I have no idea what this lady is talking about. I never tricked anyone into buying N for me, I got the money from my father, who is in the same position as me.

Thanks! I know, there will always be nay-sayers and haters lol.

Just so everyone here knows, before Taylor here got his "dad" to buy him his N, he begged and pleaded with me to buy it for him. I said no and he never talked to me again.

Go away, please.

Omg I am so sorry! Am I bothering you?

 

[ArtVandelay]

Just so everyone here knows, before Taylor here got his "dad" to buy him his N, he begged and pleaded with me to buy it for him. I said no and he never talked to me again.

I doubt anyone here cares. Really a poor excuse for the way you've been acting in this thread.

 

[Taylor]

Just so everyone here knows, before Taylor here got his "dad" to buy him his N, he begged and pleaded with me to buy it for him. I said no and he never talked to me again.

Omg I am so sorry! Am I bothering you?

A little, your post was very rude and unnecessary.

Also, that is correct, and how most people would handle the situation. You were originally compliant to it as well. Don't forget that. Where you get that I ever tricked you or anyone to ever buy it for me and accuse me as such, is beyond me. I believe you are the delusional one here, miss.

 

[Ashpac]

I agree with what you have said taylor. Ive realised for a few years that im different and have the same view as you.
Far too many people cling on to this life like its precious or a gift when in reality its dog shit.
I say this all the time to my family and friends and they look at me like im crazy when infact i look at them like theyre crazy LOL.
I just say you enjoy being a wage slave until you die, enjoy the world getting worse and people becoming shittier and shadier.
Id rather leave this shit hole behind than live in this prison we call life.
We are slaves from the day we are born. Anyways good luck with your N.
I cant wait to order mine.

 

[Taylor]

I doubt anyone here cares. Really a poor excuse for the way you've been acting in this thread.

Thank you! I've noticed this spontaneous, uncalled for and stand-offish behavior consistently from her too. This is nothing out of the ordinary for her, and I wouldn't be surprised if disciplinary action has already been taken on her.

I agree with what you have said taylor. Ive realised for a few years that im different and have the same view as you.
Far too many people cling on to this life like its precious or a gift when in reality its dog shit.
I say this all the time to my family and friends and they look at me like im crazy when infact i look at them like theyre crazy LOL.
I just say you enjoy being a wage slave until you die, enjoy the world getting worse and people becoming shittier and shadier.
Id rather leave this shit hole behind than live in this prison we call life.
We are slaves from the day we are born. Anyways good luck with your N.
I cant wait to order mine.

I'm just thankful I got to enjoy the good portion of my life at least, where I still had that naive mindset of, "That'll never happen to me!". I don't believe it's all bad, and I feel that there really is beauty in life and it's worth living to a certain degree, such as growing up pain-free and experiencing awesome times as an adolescent with friends where you still think you're invincible, having sex for the first time, falling in love etc. That part of life I really enjoyed, and am glad I got to experience, hence my title.

However, as we all know, nothing lasts forever in this life, and I don't believe you should be forced to stay any longer than you truly want to or can withstand.

 

[Taylor]

So where have things gone horribly wrong for you?? Do you have chronic pain issues? Are you an addict?? Do you even know what it's like to suffer a day in your life?? And now you've gotten someone else to buy N for you, that most of us couldn't even dream of affording, nor trick someone else into buying it for us!!! So I don't wanna hear your bragging.


If you think any length of a letter is gonna stop people from suffering as a result of you ctb, you're delusional.

Also, to answer your question, in my second shoulder surgery, I needed four anchors drilled into the socket of my shoulder to repair and reattach my badly torn labrum which was torn completely off the bone, posteriorly from about the 12 to 6 o'clock position. I remember waking up from surgery trembling in pain, and throwing up because it hurt so bad. That is only one of about 13 other injuries of mine I sustained from attempting to serve my country as a US Navy SEAL when I was 20, which I'm still suffering from today, as they have progressively gotten worse and the operation on my shoulder was unsuccessful on top of that. Most of them have been in need of surgical intervention this whole time, but I was too preoccupied with fixing my right shoulder first. I have the same problem in my other shoulder, and my hip. Not to mention my bad clavicular joints, elbows, wrists, knees, and ankles of course (I have torn cartilage in both knees and my left ankle as well). I've been living (and working) with a completely bone on bone shoulder for about the past six years now, which more than likely needs a total shoulder replacement at this point, and with literally no lumbar discs left to support my spinal column (severely progressed, degenerative disc disease). My spine is so stiff and in so much constant pain that I can barely walk or move now, it's ridiculous.

You'd think it ends there right? Well in 2017 I developed the most severe case of IBS-C in which my colon essentially stopped functioning the way it's supposed to, and there's no cure. Every day, every hour, every minute, I've been in cramping, constipated agony ever since then, unable to ever fully evacuate my bowels. It is the most excruciating torture you could ever imagine, and I have to deal with that, ON TOP of all of my other horrible orthopedic injuries.

It takes a lot for me to want to die, @lost_soul83, I think I have a pretty good taste of what it's like to suffer, and you should probably refrain from asking me in such a blatantly rude and uninvited, condescending manner next time, assuming I don't. Actually, that goes for posting on my threads in general. I'm ex-military, I don't tolerate disrespect.

I kind of wish all the atheists and agnostics who have disputed with me would read this too. Despite this extent of suffering and agony I'm in, I still don't blame God, God is good and He has nothing to do with it. This is the result of Satan and the evil that still inhabits this world. Despite this magnitude of pain, I still love my Savior more than anything, and know this is only temporary. That's how strong my faith is.

 

[Vidar33]

I know quadriplegics that are so happy that they would give everything to extend life for as long as possible.

At the same time there are fully able people that fight their demons everyday and just cannot seem to win that fight.

It's a personal thing.

 

[Taylor]

I know quadriplegics that are so happy that they would give everything to extend life for as long as possible.

At the same time there are fully able people that fight their demons everyday and just cannot seem to win that fight.

It's a personal thing.

Agreed. I couldn't live like that, not by my standards, but I think that's great that there are people out there who can still find enjoyment in life, despite being in that condition. Same with double, or even quadruple amputees, I just...wow. That is strength.

 

[Echoko]

having a doctor molest your organs with his dick beaters that he just used to pick his butt-crack with.

I love your sense of humor. So many quote worthy posts here. I was unexpectedly laughing a lot.

I think it's true you shouldn't feel guilty. People are all different with unique personalities and likes and dislikes. It doesn't seem unreasonable that a small portion of the population, for various reasons, say "Thanks, but no thanks. This isn't something I'm interested in." I don't know why so many people are motivated to try to control what other people choose to do in their own lives.

 

[weargon]

I love your sense of humor. So many quote worthy posts here. I was unexpectedly laughing a lot.

I think it's true you shouldn't feel guilty. People are all different with unique personalities and likes and dislikes. It doesn't seem unreasonable that a small portion of the population, for various reasons, say "Thanks, but no thanks. This isn't something I'm interested in." I don't know why so many people are motivated to try to control what other people choose to do in their own lives.

Thanks :). Lol I amused myself and made my evening slightly better too. Love dark humor.

And well put with the points as well. I think part of it comes from people's inability to build a model of the world around them on things other than how they themselves feel about something. So if they feel a certain way towards something, everyone else must be the same way, or they're wrong/broken. The inability to grasp that everything is relative and there's no truth or one way of perceiving something.

Also, to answer your question, in my second shoulder surgery, I needed four anchors drilled into the socket of my shoulder to repair and reattach my badly torn labrum which was torn completely off the bone....

Whoa! I finally read that post and it blew me away. You're definitely one person that needs no dispute about being on here. That's a lot to go through! Too bad you're not a car or I'd be like: We have the technology... we can rebuild him... turns on TIG welder, plugs in angle grinder

 

[Severen]

It's absurd that most people are against people committing suicide because essentially then they are against people doing a cost benefit analysis and figuring out, life is not worth it anymore. It's essentially being against people who are intelligent enough to do a cost benefit analysis because they are "mentally ill." Well when did it become a mental illness to be able to do a cost benefit analysis? And every time, someone commits suicide, humanity benefits because it means, less competition in this world for them when it comes to resources while at the same time, helping reduce the world's human population that is way too high, right now. And if they look back into human history, they will see that for most of human history, committing suicide was seen as something completely normal or in some cultures, something honorable... And that a lot of the world's most intelligent and famous people have committed suicide. Hannibal Barca committed suicide. Cleopatra committed suicide. Marcus Antonius committed suicide. There were entire tribes of people who committed suicide in the past to avoid being enslaved by the Romans, like the Dacians for example... So do these pro life people think, all these people I mentioned above were just mentally ill and needed help? LOL And who can say, our lives do not belong to us? Who can say they belong to a god or the gods? There is no evidence whatsoever supporting such beliefs. So yeah, just like the PC in front of me belongs to me, so does my life... I'm not destroying anyone's property except my own by committing suicide.. How would these brainwashed pro life fools react if I walked up to them and told them, it's wrong to drive their cars on Tuesdays and Thursdays and if they think it's acceptable to do so, then they are mentally ill and need help... They would tell me to fuck off. It's like, people see you trying to break your smart phone and call the cops on you so you can be dragged to a psych ward(a prison basically) because you are mentally ill and need help...

 

[DaniDee]

It's absurd that most people are against people committing suicide because essentially then they are against people doing a cost benefit analysis and figuring out, life is not worth it anymore. It's essentially being against people who are intelligent enough to do a cost benefit analysis because they are "mentally ill." Well when did it become a mental illness to be able to do a cost benefit analysis? And every time, someone commits suicide, humanity benefits because it means, less competition in this world for them when it comes to resources while at the same time, helping reduce the world's human population that is way too high, right now. And if they look back into human history, they will see that for most of human history, committing suicide was seen as something completely normal or in some cultures, something honorable... And that a lot of the world's most intelligent and famous people have committed suicide. Hannibal Barca committed suicide. Cleopatra committed suicide. Marcus Antonius committed suicide. There were entire tribes of people who committed suicide in the past to avoid being enslaved by the Romans, like the Dacians for example... So do these pro life people think, all these people I mentioned above were just mentally ill and needed help? LOL And who can say, our lives do not belong to us? Who can say they belong to a god or the gods? There is no evidence whatsoever supporting such beliefs. So yeah, just like the PC in front of me belongs to me, so does my life... I'm not destroying anyone's property except my own by committing suicide.. How would these brainwashed pro life fools react if I walked up to them and told them, it's wrong to drive their cars on Tuesdays and Thursdays and if they think it's acceptable to do so, then they are mentally ill and need help... They would tell me to fuck off. It's like, people see you trying to break your smart phone and call the cops on you so you can be dragged to a psych ward(a prison basically) because you are mentally ill and need help...

Thank you Thank you!!! I agree 110% on all accounts. I was just saying this to my husband yesterday who noted I haven't taken my "depression pills" for awhile now and when I'm "like this" then I do "impulsive things".

All of that just really pisses (pardon my language) me off. Just because I feel like I have lived my life and I am ready to die that means there is something wrong with me? Why?! Why do terminally ill people get assisted suicide yet anyone other than those on their death bed aren't allowed the same grace and mercy?

I see the world for what it is and honestly I don't see the joy in living. It's hard work to be alive and being forced into the rules of society. I feel as though my time has come to an end but I'm not allowed to think that way cos I'm being "selfish" or I'm "mentally ill". Maybe all the other pro life people are the ones who are selfish and maybe they are mentally ill

I'm just ranting but really, I get so mad that MY choice to end MY life is such a big deal. I'm not the president or anything, I'm just a blip on the radar... nobody important and no, I'm not "feeling sorry" for myself ... god I hate that phrase

 

[JadedGray]

Also, to answer your question, in my second shoulder surgery, I needed four anchors drilled into the socket of my shoulder to repair and reattach my badly torn labrum which was torn completely off the bone, posteriorly from about the 12 to 6 o'clock position. I remember waking up from surgery trembling in pain, and throwing up because it hurt so bad. That is only one of about 13 other injuries of mine I sustained from attempting to serve my country as a US Navy SEAL when I was 20, which I'm still suffering from today, as they have progressively gotten worse and the operation on my shoulder was unsuccessful on top of that. Most of them have been in need of surgical intervention this whole time, but I was too preoccupied with fixing my right shoulder first. I have the same problem in my other shoulder, and my hip. Not to mention my bad clavicular joints, elbows, wrists, knees, and ankles of course (I have torn cartilage in both knees and my left ankle as well). I've been living (and working) with a completely bone on bone shoulder for about the past six years now, which more than likely needs a total shoulder replacement at this point, and with literally no lumbar discs left to support my spinal column (severely progressed, degenerative disc disease). My spine is so stiff and in so much constant pain that I can barely walk or move now, it's ridiculous.

You'd think it ends there right? Well in 2017 I developed the most severe case of IBS-C in which my colon essentially stopped functioning the way it's supposed to, and there's no cure. Every day, every hour, every minute, I've been in cramping, constipated agony ever since then, unable to ever fully evacuate my bowels. It is the most excruciating torture you could ever imagine, and I have to deal with that, ON TOP of all of my other horrible orthopedic injuries.

It takes a lot for me to want to die, @lost_soul83, I think I have a pretty good taste of what it's like to suffer, and you should probably refrain from asking me in such a blatantly rude and uninvited, condescending manner next time, assuming I don't. Actually, that goes for posting on my threads in general. I'm ex-military, I don't tolerate disrespect.

I kind of wish all the atheists and agnostics who have disputed with me would read this too. Despite this extent of suffering and agony I'm in, I still don't blame God, God is good and He has nothing to do with it. This is the result of Satan and the evil that still inhabits this world. Despite this magnitude of pain, I still love my Savior more than anything, and know this is only temporary. That's how strong my faith is.

It seems you're gone now but I wanted to say I can sympathize with your IBS-C pain. I had to suffer for 8 years with this and you're right about how excruciating it can be. Mine was nowhere near as bad as yours, but it got to the point where I couldn't eat and would only survive on meal replacement drinks. I haven't had any problems with it, in a year, and hoping it will stay this way. I'm sorry you have to suffer with this, along with all the other pain you have. I hope you're able to find peace one day.

 

[Allpainnogain]

It seems you're gone now but I wanted to say I can sympathize with your IBS-C pain. I had to suffer for 8 years with this and you're right about how excruciating it can be. Mine was nowhere near as bad as yours, but it got to the point where I couldn't eat and would only survive on meal replacement drinks. I haven't had any problems with it, in a year, and hoping it will stay this way. I'm sorry you have to suffer with this, along with all the other pain you have. I hope you're able to find peace one day.

I think he's gone :(

 

[JadedGray]

I think he's gone :(

He made a thread a while ago, saying he was going to leave soon: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/my-time-is-coming-very-soon.16208/

 

[Allpainnogain]

He made a thread a while ago, saying he was going to leave soon: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/my-time-is-coming-very-soon.16208/

So jealous. I need to go so badly. Zero quality of life anymore

 

[Jessica5]

I was just thinking about this today, why does everything revolve around trying to extend the life of literally everything around us (your life, your pet's life, your car's life via oil changes etc., even your on the verge of death 80 year old grandma's life) when we know damn well this is a suffering, and dying world. Why do we insist on suffering and extending the life of literally everything for as long as possible, despite that suffering?

I don't buy it. I don't buy it at all. That's not how I operate, nor will it ever be. I knew ever since I was old enough to cognitively think for myself, that I only wanted to be here for as long as I comfortably could, or until something went horribly wrong, and you'd have to be some sort of idiot to think being a creaky old 65+ year old is an enjoyable quality of life. (No offense to any old timers here, rather, much respect. I couldn't do it.)

I guess I'm just ranting here because I don't agree with the whole "life is precious and we have to extend it for as long as possible, at all costs", pro-life stance that is the society we live in. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to suffer anymore, and choosing to end that suffering. I feel it is a very natural part of life, and that is a very natural, and human response.

Look at me, for example. I was never one to boast or come across as arrogant or vain by any means, but obviously I know I'm genetically gifted. I could've been a movie star or something and still could if I wanted to, but I've reached a point of my life where I'm in constant irreparable agony, and I just don't want it anymore.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that no matter what you've been given or what society tells you, don't feel bad for wanting out. It's a very natural part of life, and ultimately I believe that is your very basic right as a human being.

If an 80 year old grandma is sickly but wants to live longer, then we should do what we can to prolong her life. Even if it's just for 3 months.

If she wants to commit suicide, we should let her.

If she doesn't want to commit suicide, but doesn't want life-prolonging medication, then we should let her do that too.

 

[Only Me Here]

Why is he still online then? That crossout on the name is confusing, i see some have the crossout but are still posting or online?

 

[JadedGray]

So jealous. I need to go so badly. Zero quality of life anymore

Me too. :(

Why is he still online then? That crossout on the name is confusing, i see some have the crossout but are still posting or online?

I think you can still respond to PMs, you just can't post in the forum.

 

[Only Me Here]

He is not gone gone, just msged with him.

 

[TAW122]

Well written post @Taylor. Yes, sadly, we still live in a society who believes that life is a positive imposition and any dissent from that ideology implies that said person is mentally ill or irrational. The worst part is the fact that in this pro-life society is willing to compromise the rights of others in order to "save" them from themselves.

 

[Alec]

I was just thinking about this today, why does everything revolve around trying to extend the life of literally everything around us (your life, your pet's life, your car's life via oil changes etc., even your on the verge of death 80 year old grandma's life) when we know damn well this is a suffering, and dying world. Why do we insist on suffering and extending the life of literally everything for as long as possible, despite that suffering?

I don't buy it. I don't buy it at all. That's not how I operate, nor will it ever be. I knew ever since I was old enough to cognitively think for myself, that I only wanted to be here for as long as I comfortably could, or until something went horribly wrong, and you'd have to be some sort of idiot to think being a creaky old 65+ year old is an enjoyable quality of life. (No offense to any old timers here, rather, much respect. I couldn't do it.)

I guess I'm just ranting here because I don't agree with the whole "life is precious and we have to extend it for as long as possible, at all costs", pro-life stance that is the society we live in. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to suffer anymore, and choosing to end that suffering. I feel it is a very natural part of life, and that is a very natural, and human response.

Look at me, for example. I was never one to boast or come across as arrogant or vain by any means, but obviously I know I'm genetically gifted. I could've been a movie star or something and still could if I wanted to, but I've reached a point of my life where I'm in constant irreparable agony, and I just don't want it anymore.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that no matter what you've been given or what society tells you, don't feel bad for wanting out. It's a very natural part of life, and ultimately I believe that is your very basic right as a human being.

THIS! I always thought that it's our most basic right too! Love this post and fully support it. Ever since I remember myself I never wanted to live too long where I can barely move anymore as well, i always wanted to die while I was still able to enjoy life and not having to live a life where all the good things are gone. Currently I'm 22, and it looks very grim for me because there is only one life I want and it seems like I won't be able to have it, that's why I'm here, because I just can't live any other life and I suffer through it. So there's no point for me in going on, even though I'm still young, nothing of what can make me happy will probably ever happen. So just like from the very beginning of my life when I thought that I want to die when life will have nothing to offer to me, just the same I am now when I see that nothing of what I want is reachable. In short, i love your post and it's so true, theres nothing bad or wrong or shameful in this, in us, in wanting this. No matter what we have and how we might be blessed it doesn't mean we are happy and it doesn't mean we should be happy with it just because somebody else would be happy having what we have, it's just not how this works, things that can make us happy or totally different from things that can make others happy and it's alright. I have an easier life than most in this world, even than most in condition the same as I. But I'm not happy and can never be happy with this life, even though it could make somebody else happy. It's sad but it is this way. Just because we might be blessed with things somebody else might want to be happy and fulfilled with, doesn't mean we are should be happy and fulfilled with them. Because we are different people, looking for different things.

 

[Partial-Elf]

First, I think the Suffering Olympics thing is stupid and I hate that there's gatekeeping that takes place on this site. Anyone who is here "deserves" to be here. Suffering can't possibly be quantified and compared–it's apples and oranges. Who's to say my suicidal depression is less painful than your broken femur? Who's say there's a certain amount of suffering you have to experience before suicide is deemed acceptable or what that amount of suffering is?

We come to this site to escape the expectations and ideas thrust upon us by a controlling culture, not to reproduce those ideas and enforce them on each other in distorted ways. Please, no more.

I'm someone who society would say has a lot to live for. I'm young and relatively healthy, have a job that was competitive to get and regularly earn praise from my superiors, have supportive parents, a few good friends, and have experienced some lovely, if short lived, romances.

But the flip side is that I have been excruciatingly anxious and frequently depressed for as long as I can remember. Practically every day of my life to date has involved a lot of self consciousness, self loathing, perfectionism, overthinking, and all kinds of emotional disregulation. Suicidal thoughts first came into the picture eight years ago and have been incredibly persistent ever since. I don't like the professional industry I'm in–it's incredibly demanding and I went into it for the wrong reasons, and it's a hard industry to leave. I feel trapped and powerless without the ability to change and grow in my profession. I don't ever really experience joy from anything, and there's nothing rewarding that I see in my future. I have issues forming lasting romantic relationships and tend to be hypercritical of my partners.

The list of these things goes on and they certainly do cause great pain. So would society be right in saying that I have "no reason to kill myself?" The truth is there's no correct answer, just them projecting their values onto me rather than empathizing with my lived experience or respecting my wishes for my own life and body.

Second, I don't know where the fetish for life comes from in our culture, but when in doubt I blame bad things on Christianity and imperialism. Seems to fit in this case.

 

[Caycee]

Christian hegemony has taken hold of Western culture. Over time, it has become second nature to us. Only a few look at USA laws and see Scripture behind them. I need to remind myself to look for books on this subject. We have been led to believe that our body belongs to God and only God has the right to decide our fate. And New Agers believe if they ctb, they will be punished by having to return to this life and start over again. Where does that come from? It's so very close to Christianity. Then, of course, we do have an instinctive survival instinct that kicks in here and there. It's that survival instinct that has led me into periods of optimism about my future after lengthy bouts of deep depression and certainty that I will end my own life as soon as I can take care of my obligations. One thing for sure is that I will have my pills. That is the goal...and by the way, hello to everyone. This is my first post. I have read various threads and posts, and I am so grateful to have somehow stumbled into this forum. I don't know how I found you. Just browsing and browsing one night last year and here you are.

 

[Severen]

Maybe all the other pro life people are the ones who are selfish and maybe they are mentally ill

I think we are all selfish because that's just human nature but these pro life people are more selfish than the rest of us. They take selfishness to a whole new level. They expect people to suffer until they die from natural causes, simply so they don't have to feel sad or lonely or uncomfortable(for a short period of time, because they will get over it eventually)... And let's say, they can't move on for some reason. Let's say, the person who committed suicide was the center of their universe. Well they can always commit suicide too or just get high 24/7 to deal with the loss of a loved one. So it's not like they are being condemned to a life of pain and suffering. Nobody is actually forced to deal with pain and suffering unless he or she is locked up in some type of prison without any way to commit suicide etc. There is a way out for most people. That's why sometimes, we hear about couples committing suicide together and entire families committing suicide together. And I do think, these pro life people are the ones who are really mentally ill... Because how can anyone who is sane, think it's wrong for people to do whatever they can to avoid intolerable pain and suffering? Did they never get the memo, telling them that human beings desire pleasure and happiness, not pain and suffering? Let's say someone is on fire. Yeah, of course he or she is going to jump into a swimming pool or lake or river or at least try to etc... No religious book or culture should be able to convince a sane person, committing suicide is wrong. Maybe these pro life people look at life as if it is some kind of game that allows you to pick and choose how you want to live life 24/7... Maybe their lives are like some kind of game and they are just incapable of empathy... Well in that case, they aren't mentally ill or extremely selfish. They are just too stupid to realize, how the world around them actually works... And unfortunately, I've encountered a lot of people like this... People who think, everyone has the power to make their life what they want their life to be... These people infuriate me to the point of making me want to kill myself by hanging myself or jumping off a bridge, before I can save up $$$ and do the other things I need to do before I'm ready to kill myself in the way I want to...

During the battle of Stalingrad during WW II, when the situation became hopeless for the German 6th army(when they were completely surrounded by the Soviets, outnumbered, outgunned etc), most of the German soldiers decided sooner or later to just drop their weapons and surrender to the Soviets. But there were also many groups of German soldiers who refused to surrender and fought to the death(and I'm sure most of them had beautiful wives and children waiting for them back at home) instead because they realized, surrendering to the Soviets is the worst possible thing they can do and they would be better off dead... Because the Soviets would have marched them through Moscow to be laughed at, spit on, taunted etc and then send them to a gulag in Siberia to die a slow horrible death... So they would never see home again, anyway. And most of the German soldiers who surrendered, were marched through Moscow like a bunch of evil circus monkeys and did die a slow horrible death... If I remember correctly, only a small percentage of German POWs were free to leave after spending some time in Siberia. I have no idea, how that happened. Perhaps they had friends in high places back home who bribed the Soviet Union to let them go... Some of them were also treated decently in Siberia by swearing allegiance to the Soviet Union and helping the Soviet guards keep an eye on the rest of the prisoners. Not sure if any of those guys were ever allowed to leave though. I don't recall any WW II historian calling the German soldiers who refused to surrender in Stalingrad, mentally ill and saying if only they called the suicide prevention hotline, everything would have turned out okay for them... LOL I don't feel sorry for those Nazi assholes but it's still a good example. And pain and suffering is subjective. So nobody can say, well those German soldiers would have gone through hell if they surrendered but people like Robin Williams, Marilyn Monroe and Kurt Cobain were just extremely selfish mentally ill cowards who just needed help... Pain and suffering that is tolerant for one person could make another person jump off a bridge... We are all different.

Christian hegemony has taken hold of Western culture. Over time, it has become second nature to us. Only a few look at USA laws and see Scripture behind them. I need to remind myself to look for books on this subject. We have been led to believe that our body belongs to God and only God has the right to decide our fate. And New Agers believe if they ctb, they will be punished by having to return to this life and start over again. Where does that come from? It's so very close to Christianity. Then, of course, we do have an instinctive survival instinct that kicks in here and there. It's that survival instinct that has led me into periods of optimism about my future after lengthy bouts of deep depression and certainty that I will end my own life as soon as I can take care of my obligations. One thing for sure is that I will have my pills. That is the goal...and by the way, hello to everyone. This is my first post. I have read various threads and posts, and I am so grateful to have somehow stumbled into this forum. I don't know how I found you. Just browsing and browsing one night last year and here you are.

I stopped believing in all that stuff when I was in my early teens... Christianity was invented by the Romans so the Romans could pacify the Jews... The Jews were constantly resisting against the Romans because they believed in their god only and so they would never bow down to an Emperor or the Roman gods etc... The Roman Emperor was just another man, in their eyes... Nobody special. So Christianity was invented to deal with this problem and then it backfired on the Romans because some Romans started buying into it... Then it became more and more popular because Christianity is a religion that treats women better than they were treated in the Roman Empire before Christianity. And then later on, Emperor Constantine had no choice but to force Christianity on everyone to unify his people instead of having the Christians in the Empire constantly fighting the non Christians in the Empire. And that New Age stuff comes from Buddhism. And Buddhism was invented to pacify the poor by convincing them that they are only poor because in a past life, they were complete pieces of shit. And all the people who are well off, were good people in a past life... This way, poor people don't think they are being oppressed... But instead, think they are being punished...