does anyone else believe that nothing is real?

[R_N]

Humans are the virus. The cure needs to come soon.

 

[MidnightCat]

Gotta say... When I'm "overloaded" I start to dissociate, some times heavily.

Do you always think that way or only in dire situations?

 

[nptg5]

tbh i was never a big fan of the matrix. and i kind of think it's silly to put a lot of stock in movies/tv shows, but... the show The Leftovers explored this topic in some detail. I would recommend it to anyone interested in this topic. (And again I think it's kind of silly, but I think it made me more comfortable with dying in general.)

Gotta say... When I'm "overloaded" I start to dissociate, some times heavily.

Do you always think that way or only in dire situations?

I don't *actively* think about it very much. But more and more I do believe it. And thinking about it actively is actually really comforting for me... maybe it's a coping mechanism.

 

[MidnightCat]

tbh i was never a big fan of the matrix. and i kind of think it's silly to put a lot of stock in movies/tv shows, but... the show The Leftovers explored this topic in some detail. I would recommend it to anyone interested in this topic. (And again I think it's kind of silly, but I think it made me more comfortable with dying in general.)

I don't *actively* think about it very much. But more and more I do believe it. And thinking about it actively is actually really comforting for me... maybe it's a coping mechanism.

It may be a coping mechanism, I hope it helps you find a little peace.

When I dissociate I'm pretty sure it's a way to cope too.

 

[voyager]

The matrix actually makes a lot more sense than say a random simulation, because at least it serves a purpose (in the film), whereas the latter would always lead to the same predictable result/entertainment, so why even run it? Our reality fails completely in this regard, because it seems to have no purpose and this becomes even more apparent when factoring in determinism.

What I don't get about the Matrix is how it can have such a good idea at it's core, but thinks imaginary Kung-Fu fighting serves a purpose.

 

[Meditation guide]

Very fresh ripe pineapple, and fresh ripe mango, horses, cats, lilies, roses, iris, wildflowers, if my imagination made these good job!

 

[Obscene Machine]

The thing is, you can never really know; but we can follow a simple mathematical view of the subject

-We establish 2 possibilities; our understanding of reality being right or this whole thing being a simulation/hallucination...
-IF this "reality" was actually fake, then we'd have no way of predicting what REAL reality is like; all that we know and think follows our understanding of reality, so we can't extrapolate any info to predict that outside real reality. Basically, by definition, we just can't predict any behaviour of the real reality.
-Now, if we are right, and other people are real, then we should follow our understanding as normal

So we reach a conclussion; there's 2 possibilities and both are, by definition, equally likely; so there's a 50% chance for each. The important part is, if it is fake, every possible scenario is equally likely. So maybe dying will get you to hell, maybe to heaven, maybe just another more real Earth, or maybe you wake up to realize you were an alien toaster dreaming... we literally cannot know, therefore any possibility has a probability of practically 0 and shouldn't change our line of reasoning.

TL;DR: if it is fake, it could go either way, so why even consider the possibility?

Also, existencial philosophy aside; once you're dead, you won't be able to care about your loved ones, so take into account the fact that no matter what happens next, you won't be there to even know. Good luck on your future choices pal

 

[Forever Sleep]

I've never really understood this viewpoint to be honest but- let's say you're right... Can't you just imagine that your life is great then? Why are you restricted by the limitations of your body? Why can't you fly?

So- is your body, biology and brain real and nothing else? Do you not think you are controlled by forces such as gravity? If it's just you imaginning all this stuff around you- you must be a God level creator. In which case- why don't you make things better for yourself? Or- are there still higher beings than you that have restricted your abilities? I'm really curious. I definitely think we all perceive this world in our own way but I guess I've always believed in physical reality. Have you never stubbed your toe on something? Why do you suppose you imagine pain?

 

[WAITING TO DIE]

It used to be that the main reason to avoid CTB was I didn't want to hurt the few people that I knew would be devastated (family members). But more and more I am thinking - why do I think they are even real? Why do I think anything outside myself, my own experiences and feelings, is real? I don't see any reason to believe it.

Maybe it's depersonalisation and derealisation disorder.
I suffer from this and its freaky.

 

[iamalreadydead]

i was psychotically depressed as a kid so i just believed that the world was a projection from my mind and none of these people i knew were real. In my head i believed i existed in a black box in a void and everything around me i was imagining as a way to cope with being alone in an infinite void. Eventually, around 13-14 years old i sort of grew out of it.. had to recognize people as real people with their own thoughts and lives and that they existed separate from me and that i didn't put them there. But I still disassociate heavily and have de-realization episodes, so the sensation has remained with me through life.

 

[nptg5]

The thing is, you can never really know; but we can follow a simple mathematical view of the subject

I think I understand your points here, but with all due respect, I mostly disagree...

-We establish 2 possibilities; our understanding of reality being right or this whole thing being a simulation/hallucination...
-IF this "reality" was actually fake, then we'd have no way of predicting what REAL reality is like; all that we know and think follows our understanding of reality, so we can't extrapolate any info to predict that outside real reality. Basically, by definition, we just can't predict any behaviour of the real reality.

That presumes that there is some separate, "real" reality - but why does that, necessarily, need to exist?

-Now, if we are right, and other people are real, then we should follow our understanding as normal

So we reach a conclussion; there's 2 possibilities and both are, by definition, equally likely; so there's a 50% chance for each. The important part is, if it is fake, every possible scenario is equally likely. So maybe dying will get you to hell, maybe to heaven, maybe just another more real Earth, or maybe you wake up to realize you were an alien toaster dreaming... we literally cannot know, therefore any possibility has a probability of practically 0 and shouldn't change our line of reasoning.

Neither of these probability distributions are known to be correct. They are just assumptions. This is a well known problem with probability/statistics... these are called prior distributions, and we have no way of knowing what they really are.


Nerdy math tangent:
In a lot of statistics work, this "prior distribution problem" sort of doesn't matter, because you can keep on running experiments to "refine" that prior distribution into a posterior distribution. You can just pick any prior distribution, like the uniform distribution (which you have done here), as long as you can keep on running lots and lots of experiments - then the assumed prior just influences how many experiments you need to run until your posterior distribution is well refined. But, we don't have that luxury here! We only really get one experiment - our own life!

I do agree with you that if it's "fake," then any possible scenario is likely. We would sort of have no way to predict future events at all. But, I think that's true even if reality is "real." As far as we know, there are laws of physics that nature adheres to pretty well... so, science has worked out pretty well. But why should we believe that the laws of physics will continue to hold, in the future? We literally have no guarantee of that. They could simply break down at any moment. The only evidence we have is... that it's worked so well in the past!​

​

I feel I should also say... I don't think these are the only 2 possibilities, either... there are certainly many more possibilities that I'm not creative enough to think of.​

TL;DR: if it is fake, it could go either way, so why even consider the possibility?

Also, existencial philosophy aside; once you're dead, you won't be able to care about your loved ones, so take into account the fact that no matter what happens next, you won't be there to even know. Good luck on your future choices pal

How do we even know that?? Maybe they will all be there when I'm dead.

I've never really understood this viewpoint to be honest but- let's say you're right... Can't you just imagine that your life is great then? Why are you restricted by the limitations of your body? Why can't you fly?

So- is your body, biology and brain real and nothing else? Do you not think you are controlled by forces such as gravity? If it's just you imaginning all this stuff around you- you must be a God level creator. In which case- why don't you make things better for yourself? Or- are there still higher beings than you that have restricted your abilities? I'm really curious. I definitely think we all perceive this world in our own way but I guess I've always believed in physical reality. Have you never stubbed your toe on something? Why do you suppose you imagine pain?

The fact that nothing is real, does not imply omniscience, or all-powerfulness. Something is happening - I don't know what it is - and I seem to have pretty limited control. I am not God.

And I'm not saying my body, biology, and brain are real. I'm saying my consciousness and experiences are real, and nothing else.

It's sort of like - watching a movie in ultra-high-definition. It might seem like the movie I'm watching is really, really real - like there are actions and reactions that follow some sorts of laws of physics. But it's not "real" in that sense - it's just a movie. (Quickly getting back to matrix/simulation territory here, I know...)

And yeah, I know that would presume there is some creator, who is putting on this show for me. Which begs the question, where did that creator come from? Was there a 2nd creator that created that 1st creator? A 3rd creator? And so on. I don't really know... but that question itself seems to remain, whether or not reality is "real" or just a show for me personally.

 

[TooConscious]

how it's confusing that if we create are reality... Really?
Everything is everything, and everything is nothing too. Depending on perception. I don't feel i know anything anymore. This Is

 

[Obscene Machine]

I think I understand your points here, but with all due respect, I mostly disagree...



That presumes that there is some separate, "real" reality - but why does that, necessarily, need to exist?


Neither of these probability distributions are known to be correct. They are just assumptions. This is a well known problem with probability/statistics... these are called prior distributions, and we have no way of knowing what they really are.


Nerdy math tangent:
In a lot of statistics work, this "prior distribution problem" sort of doesn't matter, because you can keep on running experiments to "refine" that prior distribution into a posterior distribution. You can just pick any prior distribution, like the uniform distribution (which you have done here), as long as you can keep on running lots and lots of experiments - then the assumed prior just influences how many experiments you need to run until your posterior distribution is well refined. But, we don't have that luxury here! We only really get one experiment - our own life!

I do agree with you that if it's "fake," then any possible scenario is likely. We would sort of have no way to predict future events at all. But, I think that's true even if reality is "real." As far as we know, there are laws of physics that nature adheres to pretty well... so, science has worked out pretty well. But why should we believe that the laws of physics will continue to hold, in the future? We literally have no guarantee of that. They could simply break down at any moment. The only evidence we have is... that it's worked so well in the past!​

​

I feel I should also say... I don't think these are the only 2 possibilities, either... there are certainly many more possibilities that I'm not creative enough to think of.​

How do we even know that?? Maybe they will all be there when I'm dead.

The fact that nothing is real, does not imply omniscience, or all-powerfulness. Something is happening - I don't know what it is - and I seem to have pretty limited control. I am not God.

And I'm not saying my body, biology, and brain are real. I'm saying my consciousness and experiences are real, and nothing else.

It's sort of like - watching a movie in ultra-high-definition. It might seem like the movie I'm watching is really, really real - like there are actions and reactions that follow some sorts of laws of physics. But it's not "real" in that sense - it's just a movie. (Quickly getting back to matrix/simulation territory here, I know...)

And yeah, I know that would presume there is some creator, who is putting on this show for me. Which begs the question, where did that creator come from? Was there a 2nd creator that created that 1st creator? A 3rd creator? And so on. I don't really know... but that question itself seems to remain, whether or not reality is "real" or just a show for me personally.

Ok so you brang up 4 points about my point that I wanna clear up:


1. How do we know that another reality exists?:
We simply can't know. This is kind of a thought experiment; there might be a different reality to our understanding of the universe (for example, the laws of physics are set; technically there's always some uncertanty because of quantum physics but you get my point), or maybe there isn't and the gaps in our knowledge don't contradict what we already "know"

2. We can only assume it's 50/50:
I'm sorry if it came across in that way but I meant to state that, by definition, we cannot extrapolate what we think we know from our universe to the "real" reality, as a more real reality implies our knowledge isn't correct, therefore we can't use it. We can visualize this point with an example: "A man presents you with a door, behind which he has put either a red ball or a blue one, and he says there was some randomness implicated in the choice". In reality, if we had enough information, we could have better odds at guessing which one it is; for example, let's say the man despises the color red, so he rolled a dice and, if and only if he rolled a 6, would he put the red ball behind the door. But, since we just don't have any further information, guessing either color isn't a smarter option. We can only assume 50/50, because assuming otherwise without any other information would simply be incorrect; when in reality, the odds were 83/17. So I'm not stating that they MUST be 50/50; instead I'm stating that betting for either chance is simply not a smarter choice

3. There might be more than 2 possibilities:
There are infinite "reality" possibilities, but my division of the possibilities follows a binary choice: "either statement A is correct or it is not". Statement A meaning we are "real" (or at least as much as we think we are, e.g this is not a dream, or simulation). As I said, there's two possibilities, but one of them entails an infinite series of sub-possibilities. But whichever case turns out to be correct, we were either right or wrong. We can only imagine an infinitesimal of possible "more real realities".

4. How do I know there won't be an afterlife to find my loved ones in?
As I specified in that last statement, I left existencial philosophy aside; so I wasn't taking in the 50% chance of us not understanding reality as it is, and an afterlife (at least with our current knowledge) falls within that side. With what we know, we have no reason to believe in afterlife; and if you consider the possibility (the "we aren't fully aware of true reality" one), then it is equally as likely (as in point 2, as far as we could possibly tell) for them to be there as it is for none of them to exist or for you to be a 4-dimensional dog in a reality where electromagnetism is just a silly dream.


I hope that clears up my point, but the TL;DR is pretty much unphased: we can't possibly know so why even worry?

 

[LetMeBeSad]

I have a belief that pops up sometimes that I am in a prison. "Reality" is just projected on the walls of my cell and I'm being tortured in order to extract all the sadness, anger and violence I have in me.

Not saying this is the truth but, it is very easy for me to believe.

 

[sserafim]

I honestly think that we live in a simulation. I think that we live in the matrix. The world is like a video game

 

[nptg5]

I have a belief that pops up sometimes that I am in a prison. "Reality" is just projected on the walls of my cell and I'm being tortured in order to extract all the sadness, anger and violence I have in me.

Not saying this is the truth but, it is very easy for me to believe.

I have thoughts like this too. I often wonder what I must have done to be constantly tortured like this.​

 

[real human being]

Look at it this way:
You don't actually have to be sure that reality is real. Whether it is real or not, you are really experiencing it. If you weren't experiencing it, you wouldn't be able to doubt whether its real in an external sense or not. So, the experience is real, and moreover, it seems to follow certain patterns, whether that be gravity, the sky darkening and lightening at set intervals, or more complex patterns like the behavior of other people and of social structures. These patterns can then be called the rules of reality, or alternatively, the rules of your experience. It doesn't matter what the true nature of your experience is, because the experience is there and it abides by rules that you can be pretty confident in, and knowing that allows you to navigate through it with some degree of sureness. Hope that makes sense.

I have a belief that pops up sometimes that I am in a prison. "Reality" is just projected on the walls of my cell and I'm being tortured in order to extract all the sadness, anger and violence I have in me.

Not saying this is the truth but, it is very easy for me to believe.

Yeah, I get this. Sometimes I feel like I'm cursed and this world is designed to drive me nuts.

 

[voyager]

I have a belief that pops up sometimes that I am in a prison. "Reality" is just projected on the walls of my cell and I'm being tortured in order to extract all the sadness, anger and violence I have in me.

I have thoughts like this too. I often wonder what I must have done to be constantly tortured like this.

Yeah, I get this. Sometimes I feel like I'm cursed and this world is designed to drive me nuts.

Have felt this way too, but (usually) the universe eventually gets bored with one and then lets off a little. Lately though I've gotten the impression the world itself seems to be getting insaner the more oneself deteriorates. There really should be no correlation though, so it's probably just a coincidence.

 

[R_N]

You guys again... I legit think I am gonna start believing this lol.

Now I realised my previous argument about two people experiencing the same thing is bad. We can experience the same in a video game or virtual reality.

Sure there might not be pain in those but what if we are hooked on some machine that can make everything believable and trigger our brain to induce pain when it needs to.


But on the other hand aren't all of these human made concepts used in fiction already?

Yeah. I am not falling for this. I resist.

 

[voyager]

Me homies, had written this a day or two after our discussion, but forgot *cough* embarassed *cough* to post it. BUT, yestersday I watched a beautiful video @avaruus has made (well worth watching, link below) and in it Einstein apparently said that we had been dead possibly for trillions of years. Obviously, the following is not Einstein's thoughts, but I figured that if he allows us some leeway on the issue then maybe this isn't all mad, and if it is, that's fine too, after all, being suicidal and that I'm expected to behave like this.

Goodbye

I saw that this was posted at 12am my time and thought this was like 24 hours ago... it was 3 hours ago. Lol. I'm glad I get to say a goodbye because even though because I appreciate your posts and I don't think you're a loser. I hope you find your peace.

sanctioned-suicide.net

Have been thinking about this some more too and well this is my assumption. Common theory is that before our universe there was simply nothingness. We don't actually have any proof on that, but since we don't really know it's what we tend to say. The main reason we do is because we can't wrap our head around the concept of an infinite span of time, which is why the concept of nothingness conveniently fills this void. Therefore infinity equals nothingness. Which doesn't necessarily make sense, because nothingness shouldn't allow anything to happen, but that's irrelevant when it comes to us. We're indeed here, whatever this may be. Solipsism actually makes perfect sense in a way. Not that you or me is not real, we can't prove that either way, and it doesn't even matter, but from a personal perspective it makes perfect sense. If you kill yourself it won't destroy my universe, nor will me killing myself destroy yours, but when we kill ourselves we destroy our universe/consciousness with everything in it, i.e. you too from our pov, or so we assume. Death is the missing and relevant equation, but we do have something to compare it to, which is of course the moment before we were born. Mark Twain said he had been dead for billions of years before coming here, but actually he was dead an infinite amount of time. Which doesn't make sense, but again irrelevant. But if we assume death is nothingness this in turn equals infinity, and since nothingness can't be experienced we're practically time travelling within an instant to our next point of consciousness wherever and whenever that may be. We're practically the destroyers and creators of worlds, therefore solipsism seems valid in that regard, imho.

The way I see it, we can't have it both ways, nothingness/infinity created our reality, but when we die we pass into nothingness for an infinite amount of time? Sounds too good to be true. If this doesn't make sense or sounds crazy, of course it would, because we neither really know what death does nor if there was nothingness before or if it's even the same thing as infnity. We're truly missing vital information.

We like to think that we and our consciousness is unique, but if you had infinity having a face off with a comparatively simple biological organism surely infinity would win. If we had a perfect clone of ourselves, shouldn't both share the same consciousness, or would they have to occupy the same space in time? Again infinity would win, because it already did (at least) once, right? But really only death can answer this or some magical intervention before all this here ends.

 

[certified_idiot]

A lot of the time I feel like life is a TV show I'm not invested in, but I have to keep watching it. I can distract myself by looking at other things on my phone or computer, but I do have to pay attention occasionally for one reason or another. When I have to pay attention, it feels like a burden, and it saps all my energy. When something bad happens in real life, I can't bring myself to feel bad about it because it feels like it's happening in a boring TV show that I'm not invested in. Then I feel like I'm a horrible person because I know reality is real, but I can't seem to care about it, which makes me try and forget about everything by trying to distract myself, and the cycle repeats over and over and over again.

 

[TooConscious]

It's just so bizarre to exist at all I haven't an incling what to do for the best. Seems It's all perspective and circumstances on the day, how we feel as human beings, I don't know other than that I know nothing.

 

[兎の耳]

If this is a simulation can I please reroll my character? Also let me buy the bunny ears cosmetic already.

 

[tunnelV]

I know it's real but with how society is everything feels very fake.

I try not to think about this subject too deeply. Start thinking about how the earth formed and every species and the point of it all. It gives me a strange feeling.