Discussion Do you think ctb should be a last resort or as valid an option as living is?

[azo]

I'm sure most, if not all of us, here agree that if you're experiencing intense/chronic/untreatable psychological or physical pain, you should be able to choose to ctb. But what about less extreme circumstances? Do you think people have a responsibility to exhaust all other options (to seek treatment, work to improve their life, etc.) before deciding to ctb?

On the same note, does anyone else just... not want to try because they haven't seen anything in life that's worth the effort of getting better/creating a better life?

 

[Darkover]

anyone should be able to kill themselves for what ever reason they want

 

[Forever Sleep]

Do you think people have a responsibility to exhaust all other options (to seek treatment, work to improve their life, etc.) before deciding to ctb?

A responsibility to who exactly? To ourselves? Because we might be missing our own potential if we quit early? Because we might have actually found happiness if we'd given it a few more years/ decades? It's such a weird idea in a way though... When someone dies- that's it for their timeline on this planet. They're debatably no longer around to be able to regret their decision.

A responsibilty to 'the miracle of life' itself- AKA God maybe? Some people DO see an intrinsic value in life and they feel bad for destroying it. That truly does come down to belief though- not everyone does believe that. Personally- I feel like my life belongs to me and no one else. If God wants to be so controlling over how we use this 'gift'- he/she/it should have bestowed it on a creature that didn't have sentience and couldn't think for itself. If there really is a God- I'm sick of being tested by them!

Really- it's ALL about responsibility to others isn't it? It's them that will be lamenting on that person's missed potential. If they happened to be good at something- they will be a loss to this world. How much joy was that talent bringing them though? Not enough to make them want to stay here- clearly! Doesn't that matter? Just because someone is good at something- useful to other people- should they HAVE to stick around in order to assist others and fulfill their potential/ destiny? Where does their feelings and wants come into it?

Responsibility to others is a difficult one and again- it's very personal. If you read through some of the terrible stories here- some people are here BECAUSE of others! They either abused them, neglected them- or- both. Just how responsible should that person feel towards those around them- when those around them are partly or- mainly the reason they have ideation in the first place?!

Of course- this shouldn't just be about CTB though. Shouldn't it/ doesn't it go further than that? Don't we all feel that pressure to contribute to society? Become successful? Make our parents proud of us? Is that entirely right though? Don't we have free will at all?

Just WHAT are we talking about when we talk about 'responsibility'? Other people's expectations of us? Why do we have to live up to those? We didn't agree to any of it! We were born. Those of us that were lucky were nurtured but after that- we're simply expected to comply.

What does this 'working to improve your life' actually mean? It likely means becoming well enough to work- contribute to society (capitalism) but create a balanced life where you likely spend most of what you earn (consumerism) just like everyone else. What if that doesn't make you happy though? What else is there?

Ultimately- I think it has to be up to the individual as to what responsibilty they feel- to anyone or anything. I'm very pro-choice. Which means- individuals making a choice for themselves based on their own reasoning and beliefs. Some people may well feel a responsibility to themselves, to God, to their parents, to society- whatever. Fine- I hope it gives them the strength to recover- if that's what they want. What I find more commonly happens though is- a whole lot of us just feel stuck in this limbo because- while WE want to go- the responsibility we feel traps us here.

 

[FuneralCry]

I think that the whole suicide is "the last resort" belief can only be applied to the individual themselves and their circumstances, if someone sees suicide as the last resort for themselves as they value life so much then that's their personal feelings but when this belief is pushed onto other people it becomes insensitive, as like not everyone is that person.

It irritates me when people wish to gatekeep suicide and think they have a right to decide for other people whether their wish to die is valid or not as the reality is that it's none of their business.

If someone wants to die then they should simply be able to leave this world, they aren't obligated to exist and not everyone even wants to exist in the first place and that person is the only one enduring their existence.

I don't care if people view suicide as the "last resort" for themselves, I will always prefer to not exist and my wish to die is just being aware of how existence is so harmful and futile, I could never see existence as being worth enduring, only non-existence appeals to me.

And I don't understand the view that suicide even needs a valid reason in the first place, that way of thinking to me is just pro-lifers who lack any compassion. Death will happen someday whether there is a reason behind it or not, death is the most normal thing and it's up to the individual when that should be as it's their existence, not anybody else's.

 

[azo]

A responsibility to who exactly? To ourselves? Because we might be missing our own potential if we quit early? Because we might have actually found happiness if we'd given it a few more years/ decades? It's such a weird idea in a way though... When someone dies- that's it for their timeline on this planet. They're debatably no longer around to be able to regret their decision.

Yes, I suppose this is what I meant. I've had pretty much the exact thought process. Dead people don't have regrets.

I don't think people have a responsibility to others because a) no one chose to be here, and b) personal autonomy trumps others' emotions. Don't believe life is sacrosanct— axiomatically good— either.

What does this 'working to improve your life' actually mean? It likely means becoming well enough to work- contribute to society (capitalism) but create a balanced life where you likely spend most of what you earn (consumerism) just like everyone else. What if that doesn't make you happy though? What else is there?

I guess that's a harder question to answer. Some people find meaning through their passions, or careers, or families, or other relationships.

It irritates me when people wish to gatekeep suicide and think they have a right to decide for other people whether their wish to die is valid or not as the reality is that it's none of their business.

Yeah— that's the problem with arguments that say the ability to decide to ctb should be restricted to certain ages, for instance. If you're claiming there's a certain degree of maturity/encephalic development needed to make the correct decision about ctb you're implying that there is a correct decision— that some circumstances are objectively ctb-worthy and some aren't. But there's always going to be some element of subjectivity involved in judging whether a situation is bad enough to warrant ctb.

 

[TheDog_]

Last resort why? You could drag my body through hell and back and only then would I be allowed to die? Why not spare me the suffering if I were to die from disease anyways

Having health issues always makes me scared for the worse. Society won't let you die even if you have to suffer every step of the way

 

[HappyForever?]

I'd say that thanks to SI suicide is already automatically the last resort for most people. Most people who commit suicide believe that they have issues that are impossible to fix. However, there are people who have problems that can be fixed with the right guidance and resources, and providing the means to fix their problems might allow them to live a happy life.

 

[Beyond_Repair]

I'm sure most, if not all of us, here agree that if you're experiencing intense/chronic/untreatable psychological or physical pain, you should be able to choose to ctb. But what about less extreme circumstances? Do you think people have a responsibility to exhaust all other options (to seek treatment, work to improve their life, etc.) before deciding to ctb?

On the same note, does anyone else just... not want to try because they haven't seen anything in life that's worth the effort of getting better/creating a better life?

Personally, I don't feel I have the right to tell other people what they have a responsibility to do within the context of their own lives.

Sure, it will have an effect on others when you CTB. But everything you do has an effect on others - that's unavoidable.

I wouldn't tell someone they were required to get married, have kids, eat certain foods, etc. also, people are allowed to do things that arguably harm themselves - substance abuse, work themselves to the point of mental and physical exhaustion. So how is this any different? If someone I truly loved are suffering and felt that they TRULY wanted to end their life, I feel it would be selfish of me to say, no, I don't care about YOUR pain, it would hurt me if you CTB, so you're not allowed to. That seems very controlling and oppressive

Also, I find it ironic that people who are suffering from disease or illness are considered brave if they continue to live despite living in agony and constant fear of what will happen.
But as soon as someone decides they want to take matters into their own hands and leave on their terms, it's selfish and cowardly? I think that's BS

 

[Deleted member 65988]

What I find more commonly happens though is- a whole lot of us just feel stuck in this limbo because- while WE want to go- the responsibility we feel traps us here.

Couldn't have said it better @Forever Sleep

Also, I find it ironic that people who are suffering from disease or illness are considered brave if they continue to live despite living in agony and constant fear of what will happen.
But as soon as someone decides they want to take matters into their own hands and leave on their terms, it's selfish and cowardly? I think that's BS

I suppose they are considered brave because of all the pain and suffering they are enduring due to the illness, they still want to fight to see another day while if someone decides that they've had enough here regardless of their reason and want to take things into their own hands, it's considered outwardly selfish.

 

[BLEH:3]

i have been brought here to fulfill the selfish needs of my parents, if my life is verifiably this fucking miserable let me have a right to die peacefully instead of looking at my file seeing that i have multiple attempts and thinking ''yeah he wont attempt another violent suicide'' let me get a magic little thing injected into my veins and end this fairytale.