Do you realise how far from normal you are?

[Un-]

This thread is more or less inspired by this video:
(you don't have to watch it).

I love the dude, don't get me wrong.. I just find it.. absolutely miserable that my life.. and probably yours.. is so distant from a normal one. When normal people were my age, they weren't considering suicide. Many of them haven't even come to terms with death. You can tell with how often he has to talk about trigger warnings, as if these things don't happen to the normal person. Which is true. It just makes me sad.

It's like I'm a circus act, like Joseph Merrick. My life is so drastically miserable, that people can't even bear witness to it. They don't want to hear it. They don't want to imagine that it's true. And it happens a lot.

I mean you can go on any reddit thread about misery, and there'll be comments in the thousands talking about how they can't imagine anyone living that way. It makes me absolutely awful to know that I'm an outlier. No one really can't relate to my pain. Most people can't imagine it. And no one ever will.

I guess, what I'm saying is that you are alone. I am alone. From normal people, and even from people that are on this forum. Horrible to think about..

 

[foreverfalling]

I've been to hospital once in my life. I was in pain on the way there. There was nothing people could do about the pain, nor could they understand it. All they could do is say half comforting words, that it isn't anything major, it will be ok. Hospital staff were apathetic, just doing their job, detached from any feelings. It made me feel I was all on my own, that I had to just accept whatever fate was coming for me.

That experience magnified those feelings of being alone. But it is like this everyday. No one can comprehend how weary I feel about my life, nor can I understand all your problems, let alone spare too much energy trying. I do wish I could help other people that feel similarly. But if they were similar, then they'd also feel like no one could possibly understand them.

At least we can feel together here in the same circus act.

 

[Un-]

I've been to hospital once in my life. I was in pain on the way there. There was nothing people could do about the pain, nor could they understand it. All they could do is say half comforting words, that it isn't anything major, it will be ok. Hospital staff were apathetic, just doing their job, detached from any feelings. It made me feel I was all on my own, that I had to just accept whatever fate was coming for me.

That experience magnified those feelings of being alone. But it is like this everyday. No one can comprehend how weary I feel about my life, nor can I understand all your problems, let alone spare too much energy trying. I do wish I could help other people that feel similarly. But if they were similar, then they'd also feel like no one could possibly understand them.

At least we can feel together here in the same circus act.

I wish I could speak as elegant as you. But, yeah, that's.. The reality of life. And it's painful.. It reminds me of the post I saw yesterday.

The guy was talking about how he used to work in old care homes. And that his empathy for the patients was minuscule.. He didn't see them as a person, because of the suffering they went through. Dementia. Absolute loneliness. Loss of control over their bodies. I don't think the people of this forum.. I don't think I'm too much different from those old folks, and I don't think other normal people are too different from the OP of that thread.

I don't think it's gonna get better. In the long run at least.. I don't think people with physical or mental illnesses will get better. I don't think people will be more understanding. We've been around for thousands of years, and we still see people like us as the sludge of society..

 

[makethepainstop]

This circus is one where the performers decide if the show is to go on, or not.

 

[Venus13]

That youtuber is pretty cool. I like the subjects he covers.

Yes, my life is also a horror story that shocks and disturbs most people. My childhood was shockingly bad. My father busted my mother's head open one night when I was 12 years old. She was bleeding out so we had to dial 911. The police officer told me he had never seen a worse environment than mine in his 20 years in the field. Hard to explain the torture I went through. Music was not allowed, self expression was not allowed, laughter and humor was not allowed, and you weren't allowed childhood possessions. Everything would get thrown out. I pretty much was not allowed to exist and experience any form of innocence, happiness, or joy in his presence and we never left the horror house to explore the world.

My adulthood somehow managed to top my childhood experiences in shock and horror. Physical and mental tormoil, unimaginable hell. I literally have no idea how I'm alive. Now I'm just a ghost in a busted shell of a body. I think this separation from humanity is what keeps me on this site with people who understand. The weight of this life and the longing to not lose sight of my humanity and connection to others is soul crushing. I understand your sadness.

I have to read this book because it keeps coming up around here.

 

[makethepainstop]

That youtuber is pretty cool. I like the subjects he covers.

Yes, my life is also a horror story that shocks and disturbs most people. My childhood was shockingly bad. My father busted my mother's head open one night when I was 12 years old. She was bleeding out so we had to dial 911. The police officer told me he had never seen a worse environment than mine in his 20 years in the field. Hard to explain the torture I went through. Music was not allowed, self expression was not allowed, laughter and humor was not allowed, and you weren't allowed childhood possessions. Everything would get thrown out. I pretty much was not allowed to exist and experience any form of innocence, happiness, or joy in his presence and we never left the horror house to explore the world.

My adulthood somehow managed to top my childhood experiences in shock and horror. Physical and mental tormoil, unimaginable hell. I literally have no idea how I'm alive. Now I'm just a ghost in a busted shell of a body. I think this separation from humanity is what keeps me on this site with people who understand. The weight of this life and the longing to not lose sight of my humanity and connection to others is soul crushing. I understand your sadness.

I have to read this book because it keeps coming up around here.

You are one of those souls I wish I could hold you in a firm hug, while talking to you. I know your hurting.

 

[Un-]

That youtuber is pretty cool. I like the subjects he covers.

Yes, my life is also a horror story that shocks and disturbs most people. My childhood was shockingly bad. My father busted my mother's head open one night when I was 12 years old. She was bleeding out so we had to dial 911. The police officer told me he had never seen a worse environment than mine in his 20 years in the field. Hard to explain the torture I went through. Music was not allowed, self expression was not allowed, laughter and humor was not allowed, and you weren't allowed childhood possessions. Everything would get thrown out. I pretty much was not allowed to exist and experience any form of innocence, happiness, or joy in his presence and we never left the horror house to explore the world.

My adulthood somehow managed to top my childhood experiences in shock and horror. Physical and mental tormoil, unimaginable hell. I literally have no idea how I'm alive. Now I'm just a ghost in a busted shell of a body. I think this separation from humanity is what keeps me on this site with people who understand. The weight of this life and the longing to not lose sight of my humanity and connection to others is soul crushing. I understand your sadness.

I have to read this book because it keeps coming up around here.

I don't have any words to tell you. I don't. I can't comfort you, I can't eliviate your suffering at all. But I see you. I do. You were robbed a possession that you can never get back.

I'm so sorry.

This disconnection from humanity is.. Awful.. Just like how they can't see how awful life can be, I struggle to see how people can enjoy living. I wish I know. Or could understand. One of my friends says she's happy. And she is. Married, great job, great environment..

I wonder what it's like to feel like you belong in living.

 

[freedompass]

I mean you can go on any reddit thread about misery, and there'll be comments in the thousands talking about how they can't imagine anyone living that way. It makes me absolutely awful to know that I'm an outlier. No one really can't relate to my pain. Most people can't imagine it. And no one ever will.

With respect I haven't found this to be true. Reddit is huge. There are many subs consisting overwhelmingly of very miserable people.

I'm also not sure why you would think being 'normal' (if by that you mean commonplace, average…actually what do you mean? Maybe define normal in this case?) is something to aspire to in any way.

These days I don't necessarily feel we are outliers, though admittedly that might pertain to the places I tend to hang out online.

Most people can't imagine it. And no one ever will.

I guess, what I'm saying is that you are alone. I am alone. From normal people, and even from people that are on this forum. Horrible to think about..

You seem to be describing a painful sense of alienation. Even where others are clearly suffering mentally, like here, you can't relate. I don't feel like that, so I guess I just confirmed your belief that you are an outlier. I don't know what else to tell you really. To offer some gratuitous unsolicited advice I'd just say, look for what we have in common, not for what separates us.

The guy was talking about how he used to work in old care homes. And that his empathy for the patients was minuscule.. He didn't see them as a person, because of the suffering they went through. Dementia. Absolute loneliness. Loss of control over their bodies. I don't think the people of this forum.. I don't think I'm too much different from those old folks, and I don't think other normal people are too different from the OP of that thread.

I replied to that thread and argued back and forth with the OP. I told him I would hate to be cared for by him and I most definitely meant it. In my view if you genuinely feel no empathy for a whole group of vulnerable people you should not work with them in any kind of caring capacity. Period.

 

[Un-]

I'm also not sure why you would think being 'normal' (if by that you mean commonplace, average…actually what do you mean? Maybe define normal in this case?) is something to aspire to in any way.

A normal person wouldn't be on this site. It's harsh to say, but.. A lot of people don't consider death like we do.. They could be suffering, yeah. I think a lot of people suffer. But I don't think they'll ever be willing to go on the edge of the cliff, like we are. They look for hope. I know I've lost that sense of assurance: that things will be better.

These days I don't necessarily feel we are outliers, though admittedly that might pertain to the places I tend to hang out online.

I can't speak for other people, but I struggle to relate to people.. I have similar thoughts to a lot of people here.. But I can't imagine going through the things you've been through, for example. Even though we're both at the end of the road, we're on different streets. I hope I'm making sense. I don't think I am.. Sigh. I'm sorry.

I don't feel like that

I'm glad you don't though. I don't think anyone should feel alienated. But we ever rarely get what's right.

 

[freedompass]

I have to read this book because it keeps coming up around here.

Are you talking about the 1948 manga based on the book by Dazai 'no longer human'? Sorry OP I didn't make it through the whole video.

 

[Venus13]

Are you talking about the 1948 manga based on the book by Dazai 'no longer human'? Sorry OP I didn't make it through the whole video.

Maybe? I meant the book, I'm not sure it's called a manga. Seems like there's more than one adaptation. I had never heard of it until this year.

 

[Un-]

Are you talking about the 1948 manga based on the book by Dazai 'no longer human'? Sorry OP I didn't make it through the whole video.

Hah. You weren't supposed to watch the video! It's like an hour long.

 

[FuneralGrey]

[...] is so distant from a normal one. When normal people were my age, they weren't considering suicide.

It's like I'm a circus act [...]

[...] No one really can't relate to my pain. Most people can't imagine it. And no one ever will. [...]

I guess it comes down to what you consider a normal life. The majority of people don't consider suicide or make plans to end their lives, but the same can be said of many categories. I don't believe we're all unique – I think that's BS – but at lot of people consider something that doesn't fall into the majority. How many people seriously consider plastic surgery, or getting a PhD? Most people don't. I, too, have at times felt like a circus act.

I'm curious, too, what you mean by "relating" to your pain. No one will go through precisely the same journey as you or know your exact lived experience. But almost all of us here are in pain, either from trauma or from the dissonance between choosing death in a society that mostly doesn't accept it as a valid option. I can't say I know exactly what it's like to be you, but I can say that I'm in pain too, and I see you and acknowledge that your pain is real. Is that not relating to you?

 

[freedompass]

Hah. You weren't supposed to watch the video! It's like an hour long.

Mhm, well it's just that the person he was describing with pics of manga in the background, was very reminiscent to me of the first person narrator character of Dazai's no longer human. I thought it couldn't be the same guy because the name was different so concluded that maybe it was the author or main character of the manga based on the book.

Who is the dude you said you loved? The youtuber or the character he was describing?

 

[Un-]

But almost all of us here are in pain, either from trauma or from the dissonance between choosing death in a society that mostly doesn't accept it as a valid option. I can't say I know exactly what it's like to be you, but I can say that I'm in pain too, and I see you and acknowledge that your pain is real. Is that not relating to you?

I don't feel like it is, at least.. For example, a lot of people here have been raped. One of my closest friends of 4 years has been raped, and she talks about it quite frequently to me. I'm in pain, mentally, like her, but I'll never understand how.. Frankly, being raped is like. I know what it is. I can imagine it. But even though we're both in pain, we come from different places.. Different reasons.. Different backgrounds. All that we have in common in this sense, is pain. Nothing else..


And it's that feeling really.. No matter how much I talk or vent, I can't make you feel how I felt. I can't make you see what I saw.

But maybe that tiny common thing we have is relating? Maybe my idea of it is messed up.

I'm probably being melodramatic.. Maybe you don't need to know the exacts of everything to relate to someone. And I think that's your point.. I don't know. I just know that when people say they relate with one another, they feel understood.. They feel connected. They feel.. At home.. I haven't felt any of those before. Acknowledgment? Sure..

Who is the dude you said you loved? The youtuber or the character he was describing?

Both.

 

[FuneralGrey]

But maybe that tiny common thing we have is relating?

I appreciate where you're coming from. If you want someone to be able to view life from your exact perspective, feeling the precise pain you feel, of course you'll never find that. Even two people who have lived the same trauma (e.g. being raped, like you mentioned) will never feel the same pain. The particulars of your experience are yours alone.

It's absolutely valid that simply being "in pain" isn't enough for you for considering that you can relate. I don't think you're being melodramatic, and it's reasonable to want to be able to relate to or connect to someone on a deeper level than simply "you hurt, I hurt."

I just know that when people say they relate with one another, they feel understood.

There's truth to this – if I say "my sister is a long-term missing person" (just an example), other loved ones of missing people will be able to relate. They understand what it's like to no longer have a loved one around, without knowing what became of them. At the end of the day, they don't know what it's like to be me, missing my sister. Even, again an example, if I have a brother. He too is missing the exact same person with the same biological relationship to them, but even he won't share my experience of what it's like to be my age when going through this or what kind of relationship I had with my sister.

Sorry if that little blurb got confusing. I guess what I'm saying is that it's up to you to decide/feel how much you have to have in common with someone else's experience before you feel understood. But no matter where that line is for you, that's valid. It just might make it harder to connect with or feel understood by other people in pain. I'm sorry you feel so disconnected from others :/

 

[eldiablo666]

A normal life is a life living the lie.

It's a life living brainwashed twenty four seven.

Do you cherish a "normal" life?
Do you see it as the gold standard?

 

[Un-]

A normal life is a life living the lie.

It's a life living brainwashed twenty four seven.

Do you cherish a "normal" life?
Do you see it as the gold standard?

I don't think that people that live a normal life are brainwashed.. I don't think that just because I'm suicidal, I'm seeing the world for what it is..

I used to think that way.. But some people like living.. Someone older that I know, knows about me a lot. Knows about my thoughts. What I've been through, who I am and so forth. They've seen and been through pain. But they're still happy. They're not brainwashed.. Life is just good for some people and sometimes not for others.

It's sad, though, that people.. View my life as something they can't relate to. I think a lot of people that read the book No Longer Human don't relate to Osamu Dazai at all. It's horrifying to think about.. Because I'm alone. My life is an anomaly.. Something people see from a distance, and can't begin to imagine. Sigh..

 

[eldiablo666]

I don't think that people that live a normal life are brainwashed.. I don't think that just because I'm suicidal, I'm seeing the world for what it is..

I used to think that way.. But some people like living.. Someone older that I know, knows about me a lot. Knows about my thoughts. What I've been through, who I am and so forth. They've seen and been through pain. But they're still happy. They're not brainwashed.. Life is just good for some people and sometimes not for others.

It's sad, though, that people.. View my life as something they can't relate to. I think a lot of people that read the book No Longer Human don't relate to Osamu Dazai at all. It's horrifying to think about.. Because I'm alone. My life is an anomaly.. Something people see from a distance, and can't begin to imagine. Sigh..

You seem to very controlled about what other people think of you.

Think for yourself.

 

[FuneralCry]

I guess that what is seen as 'normal' is subjective. We all have our own normal as after all, we all experience life differently. For me wanting to die is normal, as it's all that I've really known. I don't want to live or have any desire to endure any kind of life. The thought of existing simply just doesn't appeal to me. I don't understand why and how anyone could actually want to be alive in a world like this. I only envy dead people.

The inevitability of suffering in this life means that to me suicide is the more rational option. What is the benefit to enduring pain, I see none, and humans have the unlimited potential to feel pain. I think that wanting to get old is irrational. But yes, as humans we really are all alone. It would be impossible for someone else to fully understand how we experience life.

 

[whatevs]

That youtuber is pretty cool. I like the subjects he covers.

Yes, my life is also a horror story that shocks and disturbs most people. My childhood was shockingly bad. My father busted my mother's head open one night when I was 12 years old. She was bleeding out so we had to dial 911. The police officer told me he had never seen a worse environment than mine in his 20 years in the field. Hard to explain the torture I went through. Music was not allowed, self expression was not allowed, laughter and humor was not allowed, and you weren't allowed childhood possessions. Everything would get thrown out. I pretty much was not allowed to exist and experience any form of innocence, happiness, or joy in his presence and we never left the horror house to explore the world.

My adulthood somehow managed to top my childhood experiences in shock and horror. Physical and mental tormoil, unimaginable hell. I literally have no idea how I'm alive. Now I'm just a ghost in a busted shell of a body. I think this separation from humanity is what keeps me on this site with people who understand. The weight of this life and the longing to not lose sight of my humanity and connection to others is soul crushing. I understand your sadness.

I have to read this book because it keeps coming up around here.

If I had to pick one book on suicide and social anxiety it would be No Longer Human. I forced my mother to read it so she would better understand me and it caused an emotional reaction... A quite negative one, and she is an amateur writer that can sit through book after look for inspiration lately. The reaction of disgust is a testament to how well it conveys the mental torment mental illness inflicts on the sufferer. If a book about suffering doesn't make a non-mentallly ill or healthier person squirm while trying to finish it then the purpose of artistic expression wasn't achieved.

Off the top of my head I didn't feel such a tangible and engrossing display of a twisted psyche with any other book except American Psycho.

 

[Un-]

If I had to pick one book on suicide and social anxiety it would be No Longer Human. I forced my mother to read it so she would better understand me and it caused an emotional reaction... A quite negative one, and she is an amateur writer that can sit through book after look for inspiration lately. The reaction of disgust is a testament to how well it conveys the mental torment mental illness inflicts on the sufferer. If a book about suffering doesn't make a non-mentallly ill or healthier person squirm while trying to finish it then the purpose of artistic expression wasn't achieved.

Off the top of my head I didn't feel such a tangible and engrossing display of a twisted psyche with any other book except American Psycho.

Damn right, heh. Every person that I've heard of that has read this book.. like the person in the video.. have had really negative reactions towards it. They respect it, but it made them feel awful. The same as the numerous people in Good-Reads that have reviewed it..

And I'll add to that list of books that disturbed people: The Girl Next Door. And the real life case of Junko Furuta.

 

[whatevs]

Damn right, heh. Every person that I've heard of that has read this book.. like the person in the video.. have had really negative reactions towards it. They respect it, but it made them feel awful. The same as the numerous people in Good-Reads that have reviewed it..

And I'll add to that list of books that disturbed people: The Girl Next Door. And the real life case of Junko Furuta.

For me, reading it made me feel amazing, like I was at home. I've read the book three times. I guess that's why I have 2.5k posts in a suicide forum. It's funny how something that finally reflects your feelings can feel so exhilarating even though the subject matter is actually horrid.

I feel the same about saddo music, makes me feel normally so much better than vital, sexual or upbeat music. I guess that if you don't resonate with something the fact that it is energetic or cheery only makes it more grating to your mind.

 

[Un-]

I feel the same about saddo music, makes me feel normally so much better than vital, sexual or upbeat music. I guess that if you don't resonate with something the fact that it is energetic or cheery only makes it more grating to your mind.

I relate with everything you've said (ironic to the post, but hey, feelings are weird), but especially this part.

Like.. I see in a lot of threads where people ask us what our favourite song is, or what's the saddest song we've heard, or just the Song Link Game in concept.. And all of it is.. I sound like such an asshole, but it's cheery for me.

The music I like is really dark, and sad. For example, The Caretaker's Everywhere at the End of Time has shocked a lot of people, but.. Yknow, I listen to it everyday. Same thing with Frankie Teardrop by Suicide. But I resonate with these songs.

I don't wanna sound like some macho-depresso machine, even though I probably do. But yes, saddo music makes me feel nice.

 

[makethepainstop]

Two people can read a book or see a video, and come away with different opinions and thoughts. People are so different from each other.

 

[artificial_ineptness]

It was weird seeing the thread after I got the vid in my recommendations... Anyway, alienation is definitely my jam, although funnily enough I don't even fully relate to Yozo (I do think the story is good and the vid was good as well). I think there probably is a relatively narrow band of traits for being human / normal. "One way" of doing it right, while failing at it can happen in a bunch of different, unique ways.

I also end up thinking about the fact that it's a story. I mean ... I think the life of many outcasts / losers / whatever is often just either so unreasonably bad, irredeemable, or bland, that it doesn't even make for a decent story. No Longer Human is a relatively well known book in Japan (AFAIK), so there is something people get out of it, while my life is not worth knowing, not relateable, there is nothing to learn from it, nothing of interest, nothing to get some adrenaline pumping. This bundle of events has no value.

Anyway, tbh, I don't really care what I have to say. I think I just wanted to show a more explicit appreciation for the things you post, in case I ended up never doing that. I'm sorry that your life turned out this way, it is miserable to be on the outskirts of human experience.

P.S. The Caretaker's Everywhere at the End of Time is good stuff

 

[magnog]

This thread is more or less inspired by this video:
(you don't have to watch it).

I love the dude, don't get me wrong.. I just find it.. absolutely miserable that my life.. and probably yours.. is so distant from a normal one. When normal people were my age, they weren't considering suicide. Many of them haven't even come to terms with death. You can tell with how often he has to talk about trigger warnings, as if these things don't happen to the normal person. Which is true. It just makes me sad.

It's like I'm a circus act, like Joseph Merrick. My life is so drastically miserable, that people can't even bear witness to it. They don't want to hear it. They don't want to imagine that it's true. And it happens a lot.

I mean you can go on any reddit thread about misery, and there'll be comments in the thousands talking about how they can't imagine anyone living that way. It makes me absolutely awful to know that I'm an outlier. No one really can't relate to my pain. Most people can't imagine it. And no one ever will.

I guess, what I'm saying is that you are alone. I am alone. From normal people, and even from people that are on this forum. Horrible to think about..

Life is suffering. Every action taken by any living being is done so in order to fulfill some deprivation which bothers them in some way.

I really don't see any relevant difference between people in our situation and the "normals".

 

[squidhead]

You expect far too much from people. Im biased, Im aware, but my view of humans and humanity as a whole is quite negative, to put it nicely.

Whenever someone expresses immense grief, pain and mentions the forbidden word that is suicide, two things happen:
1) Empty platitudes devoid of any meaning, except making whoever says them feel better
2) Being told to just get over with it and do it and that anyone is free to do it despite it not being legal nor having the proper tools, via methods that are most likely going to end up poorly and fail

No help or comfort or understanding to be had. Just think about that for a moment. Someone consciously decided to click on that specific post, login, write something, and press send and their message to the person in pain is "It`s not legal but nobody`s stopping you. Just do it, end your life already".

Or when someone`s suicide is covered in the news, again two things happen:
1) The person that ended their life is vilified and shamed and to add to the previous point above, they have the nerve to say the victim should`ve chosen less gruesome methods as to not scar bypassers and/or whoever will find them. Well, Im sure the victim would`ve loved to have access to better alternatives, but guess what... they do not exist as it is illegal.

It`s fascinating to me how hypocritical and oblivious the overwhelming majority of people are to put two and two together.
Society does not give us any legal methods or proper tools or even allow the choice to be made at all from a legal standpoint, so the options/tools most suicidal people have are exclusively brutal ones that make for a gruesome view once its over. Somehow, they`ll still be blamed as if it was their intention to create the most horrifying view for whoever finds them, completely disregarding what led that person to commit such an act and how overwhelmed by pain they must have been.

2) Again mockery, contempt, moral righteousness, easy to ride that high horse when you have no frame of reference nor willingness to put yourself in someone elses shoes. And, of course, making the entire article about the people left behind in pain. Those same people that, in most cases, did not give a damn about the person while they were alive. Those same people that more than likely contributed and compounded the misery and pain experienced by the one they only now miss.