K

Kali_Yuga13

Experienced
Jul 11, 2024
266

A lot of good points. I can see both sides of the debate, since I was very similar to a lot of younger folk here at that age, but in certain areas I have changed my viewpoint completely.

Questions around culture and society open up a bottomless pit. There are many different regions of the world with their own norms, multiplied by innumerable historical eras. Even within an average big city today, you'll find hundreds of unique subcultures as people congregate around common interests.

Nonconformity towards generic social expectations is healthy and appropriate for anybody with any amount of free thought. However, there are some complexities. I'm going to try and present both sides of the story.

'Rebelling'
When people pressure us to fit in, often they are spreading their own misery. The best example of this is highly conservative cultures. It reaches a stage where men (for example) are only allowed to express one emotion, anger, and ANY sort of quirkiness, nerdiness, original thought or inner-child antics will be universally condemned until they fall into line.

Based on what I've seen in my own city, I believe there's a correlation between these toxic masculine cultures and abnormally high male suicide rates; I once read a statistic that in my area the ratio is something like 7:1, compared to the usual 3:1 male-to-female suicide rate. But of course, the broader issue of unpleasant cultural demands can affect any person of any demographic; I merely use this as a statistically glaring example of the phenomenon.

Many, many people find themselves different in some way. For example, the LGBT community's message is heavily based upon this situation as it applies so starkly to their demographic. Even beyond this, the chances are that almost every single person will suffer to some degree for being denied permission to be true to themselves in some way. It's a pretty ludicrous society that pushes us all towards universal misery.

The obvious logical solution is to find people and communities you relate to (perhaps via meetup.com or similar) and get in the habit of disregarding the inevitable derogatory comments made by outsiders. Workplaces are not all the same, but some can be pretty irritating in this respect. And yet, with the exception of people who have genuinely amazing jobs, the whole concept of working only makes sense if there's a larger context for life to focus on. Be it a tribe, community or some purpose.

'Conformity'
There's another side to the story. There may be some sensible logic behind generic advice (e.g. "get a house", which I'll cover in a moment) that gets routinely disseminated. This is because we have to reap whatever we sow.

My own story shows how messy this can all be. I felt contemptuous towards the notion of conformity to society and invested a lot of my 20s indulging in my nerdy and artistic hobbies. However, there was a pitiful story behind this; I'd missed out on finishing high school or having any university or employment prospects due to cracking under the pressure of family abuse and school bullying as a teen. And here's the kicker: I now completely regret my 20s.

I later realised that the reason why I loved to get deeply drawn into my passions was as an escape from the supposedly insurmountable issues I was facing. I had untreated mental illness that turned out to be quite severe (C-PTSD), no job prospects and only a couple of friends who were in a similar dysfunctional pattern of using the guise of rebellious nonconformity to evade the elephant in the room.

As a particularly pathetic example, I was always writing poetry and music about loneliness which helped me to feel better, but I had no clue how to actually connect with people. Plus, I was always talking about suicide with the reasoning that I could just leave any time I wanted. But starting in my late 30s, looking back on a life and feeling like I never experienced human love became so distressing that it has ended up a major factor in what is now middle-aged suicidal ideation. If only I had known what I know now.

So the simple answer is be true to yourself, but this is not necessarily as straightforward as it may seem. We are talking about really deep authenticity here, NOT merely doing the opposite of what 'society' says or throwing out the rule book as an act of rebellion. The nature of life is that it tends to unfold in layers and the process goes on indefinitely, so there is no question of having it all figured out at any point.

The other issue with conformity comes when advice pertaining to, say, financial efficacy or physical health has legitimate merit. Starting in my early 30s, I quickly realised that nobody was going to help me and I decided to work any awful job I could and then dedicate over a decade to buying and paying off a house by myself. I had to live VERY rough.

As of last year, I have the house and the freedom that comes with it, but after all the burnout, my health is now such that I don't think I'll ever be able to work full-time again. In a way, I've traded one problem for another. Thus, I look back and regret wasting critical time, though it's not like I had any sort of mentoring when I was young anyway. And this whole weird situation may not apply to anyone else.

Funnily enough, there is an upside to my current situation since I have very little baggage aside from health concerns; I've been able to invest heavily into fitness and may yet find my tribe. I shamelessly do stupid shit like proudly displaying my Pusheen plushie. If I find someone special, I can offer a very relaxed lifestyle here without all the dramas of rent, debt or dealing with families.

So how to summarise all of this?

1) It is very important to discard social expectations that are simply irrelevant to your life path. It is also important to find people who embrace your quirks.
2) Be true to yourself, and know that this generally means peeling away onion layers over a period of decades.
3) Questions of lifestyle, finances, health, fitness, social life, hobbies, where to live, culture, etc. need to be looked at carefully while being aware of the total picture of short and long-term consequences, both good and bad, of our decisions. The only thing outsiders can offer is assistance with understanding what is gained and what is lost with each choice made.
Almost everything about this post speaks to my experience. I wish I could send this message back in time to my teenage self. The worst part is that I knew something was wrong but couldn't articulate what or why and the Internet barely existed so my only recourse was establishment therapy which did more harm than good.
 
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Ironborn

Ironborn

Specialist
Jan 29, 2024
384
You have no time for yourself if you work full-time.
A regular shift for me was at least 10 hours but often went over plus an hour total commute time.
By the time I've eaten and showered and sorted everything out I have maybe 2 or 3 hours to relax then off to bed for the next day.
Not surprising I lost my goddamn mind.
 
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bleeding_heart_show

bleeding_heart_show

Member
Dec 23, 2023
42
I lost my parents right after becoming an adult, so I haven't experienced much of adulthood. I have a few friends (and I even see some of them a few times a month), but I am almost entirely alone in the world. Hope everyone enjoyed my sob story, haha.
 
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SketchTurner

SketchTurner

Member
Jul 24, 2024
37
As a suicidally depressed teenager I thought hitting 18 and leaving home would be some kind of different world. I really was ready to try. My home wasn't abusive but it was chronic stress through dysfunction. School wasn't terrible but I didn't like being there either. I lived away from home to attend university and nothing changed. I continued living away to try and work once I dropped out, and nothing changed.
I just expected that being an adult, having a different environment, being in the world, would at least move the needle a little. I was very disappointed.
 
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P

Praestat_Mori

Mori praestat, quam haec pati!
May 21, 2023
11,297
I can't complain about my adult life. It was pretty good for many years. I had good jobs, my efforts paid off well, I could live my life and I achieved some of the goals I always dreamed of. In recent years my life has become a "rot at home life" after a big failure - I don't like it and I can't pull myself out of it but it could be much worse - if gets worse I probably have to kms although I don't want to do that.
 
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KuriGohan&Kamehameha

KuriGohan&Kamehameha

想死不能 - 想活不能
Nov 23, 2020
1,712
I am afraid of becoming an adult...I turned 18 last year and I thought that the fear would pass and I would have a big change in maturation but that is not the case. I feel that I am incompetent to take care of myself even though I already want to become independent.
Honestly I feel like you do not really start feeling like a "full blown adult" until about age 23 or so, depending on what experiences you have in the next few years. At 18, I still felt very much like a child, and it took several years for my emotions and decision making skills to smooth out. These next few years are for learning, so don't be too hard on yourself, it takes time to feel like you know what you're doing when it comes to adulting. And even then, there's many things myself and many others still don't have a handle on in our mid 20s and beyond.
You have no time for yourself if you work full-time.
A regular shift for me was at least 10 hours but often went over plus an hour total commute time.
By the time I've eaten and showered and sorted everything out I have maybe 2 or 3 hours to relax then off to bed for the next day.
Not surprising I lost my goddamn mind.
That sounds so extremely stressful, I hope you are getting a break now. I had a very similar life from ages 16-19. Had to wake up at 6 am every day to go to school, would finish school at half past 3 and then would immediately go to work in a restaurant job doing hard labor until 10 pm most days. It's not surprising that the body and mind crashes and burns after such extreme exertion.

Commuting time really should count towards the number of hours spent at work, especially when you think about how in the past when the initial conceptions of labor laws in most countries were beginning to be developed, populations were much smaller and most people lived in close proximity to where they would labor (on a farm, near a factory, etc) so regulations were not designed to take into account and extremely cramped and spread out world where people need to rely on driving long distances in cars busses and trains. Plus it used to be far more common to have someone at home cooking for you, or having food stalls on the street where one could quickly and conveniently access food- having to be fully responsible for cooking and meals everyday by ones lonesome self is a huge burden.

I can't complain about my adult life. It was pretty good for many years. I had good jobs, my efforts paid off well, I could live my life and I achieved some of the goals I always dreamed of. In recent years my life has become a "rot at home life" after a big failure - I don't like it and I can't pull myself out of it but it could be much worse - if gets worse I probably have to kms although I don't want to do that.

I can relate, the rot at home life is definitely not for me. As much as over working is bad, the opposite can also slowly kill you. We need some level of stimulation, socialization, and productivity to stay sane, we weren't designed to be indoors in the same environment, not occupied with something for weeks or months at a time.
 
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LaVieEnRose

LaVieEnRose

Angelic
Jul 23, 2022
4,214
I can relate, the rot at home life is definitely not for me. As much as over working is bad, the opposite can also slowly kill you. We need some level of stimulation, socialization, and productivity to stay sane, we weren't designed to be indoors in the same environment, not occupied with something for weeks or months at a time.
You don't want to know how long it's been for me (in general). 😬 I sincerely thought that whether I'd end up killing myself or not I had left NEETdom for good.
 
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Praestat_Mori

Mori praestat, quam haec pati!
May 21, 2023
11,297
I can relate, the rot at home life is definitely not for me. As much as over working is bad, the opposite can also slowly kill you. We need some level of stimulation, socialization, and productivity to stay sane, we weren't designed to be indoors in the same environment, not occupied with something for weeks or months at a time.
Yeah, we're not designed to spend our lives within 4 walls and alone. Luckily I don't have any MH issues that would make my life difficult. It's more the fact that I have no means to do a lot more than just staying at home (rotting at home). There are a minimum of social contacts irl and I also go outside every now and then but life could be so much more interesting if I had the means to live it again.

That would need a lot of effort and could end up in overworking (and burnout) as an unhappy wage slave. That's not much better either, probably worse.
 
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Bxtra

Bxtra

Member
Jul 27, 2024
9
Vaguely suicide related but I feel like this discussion belongs more in off topic. I'm particularly interested in hearing from other people who are a bit older and have lots of life experience with adulting at this point. I know someone will probably say, hey, you're not old, you're *only* 25 but I feel like I'm already way past my youth due to my own life experiences and years spent grinding in the workforce.

I think there's two main things that really disappointed me about hitting adulthood proper. One is the culture aspect of this life stage/expectations created by the world around you, and the other is the barriers imposed due to time, aging, and the inevitable decline of health if one is genetically predisposed to it like I am, or you've experienced some sort of accident or spontaneous illness that has taken it's toll in due course.

Onto the cultural slant of things, I would say I really despise how the second you hit adulthood, your personality and priorities are slowly meant to shift towards your career and employment over anything else. I was raised in a fairly workaholic culture where everything you did had to be for a greater purpose of seeking employment in the future, as a child I would see parents select activities for their kids based on what will make them "competitive" and productive rather than considering if their son or daughter even derives any joy from that hobby. I also knew many people (and still do some like this) who think that anyone who enjoys partying or doing leisurely things is a loser and your life should be spent focusing on work above all else. I have a friend that regularly shames me for wanting to drink and party and sees it as immature behaviour.

When I was still in my teenage years, about 18 or 19 it was seen as okay for me to express myself how I wanted with fashion or to have certain hobbies like watching anime or playing games, dressing up, writing fanfictions, and things of that nature, but now that I'm in my mid 20s I face a lot of judgement for my interests and was clearly expected to grow out of this and only have hobbies like exercise classes and going to the gym. I follow some people who are fashion designers for "cutesy" Japanese fashion brands and they regularly get harassed and called hags for enjoying cute styles as they approach 30 and told by westerners that even having this fashion style is gross and they need to grow the fuck up and be more mature, whatever that means. I wrote about this here before, but it's as if once you hit a certain age your entire identity is expected to become your career, being a husband/wife, and eventually a parent, with no room for much of anything else.

While I think there is some level of professionalism and decorum one needs to follow in a workplace environment, I don't think an individual's interests or sense of authenticity should be sacrificed to become a corporate drone. Seeing a person working at the till with a Pikachu pin or dyed hair or a tattoo isn't going to ruin your customer service, but it seems like adult life is one huge elaborate game of made up social norms and expectations that no one really likes, but there's no collective feeling that it's worth fussing or fighting over.

Often times as a kid I was told how life wasn't fair, and if you think it's bad now, just wait till adulthood. Quite a self fulfilling prophecy. In childhood we have a well defined sense of structure and progress with school, are socialized with people in our own age group in huge numbers, and generally have a sense of community. In adulthood, after university, this all vanishes and ultimately created a large sense of disappointment for me as an autistic person, because I really thrive in the academic environment, and not really in a workplace where the social dynamics are much more rigid and there is no longer any sense of curiosity and meeting new people all the time. I enjoy being productive, and need it to some degree to stay sane, so I think the biggest issue with employment as an adult is the faux social crap, artificial shift patterns that prevent anyone from having a life, and treating each other like customers rather than actual colleagues or friends.

If I had infinite finances and was at full health, I think I'd just study different subjects forever and go traveling, though many people find this a pretty ludicrous and childish line of thinking. I just genuinely enjoy learning and do not get the same type of enrichment from doing repetitive mundane tasks in an office with no variety because your designated HR department says you must do one thing only. Making work dull and unmeaningful gets treated like a necessary evil, when it's artificially constructed imo.

Which brings me to my next thought.. a lot of things we are expected to do as adults aren't requirements, they're just heavily encouraged socially to the point where you feel like a failure if you dont do them and follow the script. The most glaring example I can think of is marriage, children, and buying a home. This was something imposed on me at an early age, despite reluctance. I decided long ago that I wouldn't be having any biological children for the sake of their health, but honestly I am not capable of raising another human as much as I like and enjoy babysitting little ones. I've gotten many nasty comments from men online before saying I'll die alone and I'll regret being child-free when I'm old and feeble, but I don't see this as a personal failing but rather a societal one.

The idea of having a nuclear family rather than existing in a tribe is completely unappealing to me and absurdly stressful. One of the few moments in my life that I can pin point as being truly happy and amazing is when I spent time with a close friend's family, staying in their home in a less financially developed Asian country. The entire family and all the neighbors were very tight knit, and being in that environment did wonders for my mood. Returning back to the UK and being alone all of the time reversed that, I have some friendships but the vast majority are surface level even after years of trying to deepen them. My partner and his entire family think my way of thinking is crazy and abnormal, and that it's only a parents sole responsibility to look after their kids rather than the extended family or community being involved.

I think I fundamentally hate the notion that once you become an adult you can't have fun anymore and if you're a woman you need to sacrifice your life to marriage and children, because that's just how it is. It's disappointing that my worth as a person is determined by those metrics, particularly if I will have sex and undergo childbirth or not. Perhaps it is because I'm autistic, or on account of my traumatic childhood where I missed out on many formative experiences, but I truly hate the social norms of what adulthood is like. I want to enjoy life, explore new things, and have adventures, not feel burdened by financial obligations or childrearing with 0 time to do anything other than take care of the home and the children.

Now, here is the other thing I think that blows about adulthood, which is not under the control of free will and social influence like the former gripe I mentioned. It's inevitable that the health and vitality from youth will decline with age, and as time passes we lose a lot of things we took for granted as adolescents. My grandparents, once being extremely tough and almost immortal individuals in my young eyes, eventually became febrile as we all do, and the realisation that the strongest people you know will eventually start to wither away is something that's brought me to tears countless times. One of the hardest things about getting older for me was having so many people around me die, especially one I hit my 20s it was like one after another. Also seeing those younger than you who were once sweet, curious, children full of life, also becoming embittered adults and losing that youthful zest towards the world hits fairly hard.

Health is perhaps one of the worst things to lose, though. When you have health and energy, the world can be your oyster, but once any sort of chronic illness befalls you, whether that be physical or mental, and you've had to accept that this is how things likely will be forever save for some scientific miracle, it really shakes you to the core. I think many people expect ill health to only really start cropping up in the elderly years, not realising that many diseases especially autoimmune conditions and things that can cause chronic pain actually tend to start manifesting in your 20s and 30s.

It's hard when you realize that even if you became incapable of caring for yourself tomorrow due to poor health, no one will intervent when you're an adult unless you hit the point of no return and require around the clock nursing care. You can be barely scraping by, teetering on the edge of losing financial security and stability due to bad health impacting your ability to work consistently, and the most likely outcome is other people don't even believe you unless it's blinking obvious. It's hard not to feel like a burden as a disabled adult when the expectation is that you work 40 hours a week like everyone else with no help required. Of course, everyone will have their own opinions too, that you're just not going to the gym enough, you're not eating this or that, taking the right supplements, etc etc, and you'll have to deal with this constantly, because you're an adult now and people think you can control every single part of your life once youre legally mature. Even biology!

As usual I wrote way too much and more than I intended to, but I am curious if others feel the same way in regards to being sorely disappointed by adulthood and the expectations surrounding it. I would say becoming older and more embittered with the world definitely contributes to why I want to leave it in some way, my views make me feel pretty alien.
What's most soul crushing is the idea that if I feel like this right from the start of adulthood, what will the next 60 years of my life look like?
 
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sick.faery

sick.faery

Mar 18, 2021
283
this is one of the reasons i want to die, and want to def do it before i turn 25. life is only potentially worth living when you're young
 
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MEAT.01

MEAT.01

Confused and tired
Jul 19, 2024
3
Honestly I feel like you do not really start feeling like a "full blown adult" until about age 23 or so, depending on what experiences you have in the next few years. At 18, I still felt very much like a child, and it took several years for my emotions and decision making skills to smooth out. These next few years are for learning, so don't be too hard on yourself, it takes time to feel like you know what you're doing when it comes to adulting. And even then, there's many things myself and many others still don't have a handle on in our mid 20s and beyond.

That sounds so extremely stressful, I hope you are getting a break now. I had a very similar life from ages 16-19. Had to wake up at 6 am every day to go to school, would finish school at half past 3 and then would immediately go to work in a restaurant job doing hard labor until 10 pm most days. It's not surprising that the body and mind crashes and burns after such extreme exertion.

Commuting time really should count towards the number of hours spent at work, especially when you think about how in the past when the initial conceptions of labor laws in most countries were beginning to be developed, populations were much smaller and most people lived in close proximity to where they would labor (on a farm, near a factory, etc) so regulations were not designed to take into account and extremely cramped and spread out world where people need to rely on driving long distances in cars busses and trains. Plus it used to be far more common to have someone at home cooking for you, or having food stalls on the street where one could quickly and conveniently access food- having to be fully responsible for cooking and meals everyday by ones lonesome self is a huge burden.



I can relate, the rot at home life is definitely not for me. As much as over working is bad, the opposite can also slowly kill you. We need some level of stimulation, socialization, and productivity to stay sane, we weren't designed to be indoors in the same environment, not occupied with something for weeks or months at a time.
A I'm glad I'm not the only one and I'm aware that maybe I'm pushing myself too hard. But you know, it's like everyone around me becomes a mature person overnight and lives their life. as if nothing was happening and without thinking too much as if they had no worries.They make me feel like I'm always going to be the same, ike I'm going to be the useless kid in the group forever ...and that's very unpleasant.
 
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Imagined_Euphoria

Imagined_Euphoria

Student
Aug 5, 2024
161
Existence dissapoints me. Everything suffers, not just humans, the supposedly peaceful nature is also just a daily massacre of the strong praying upon the weak.
 
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GuessWhosBack

GuessWhosBack

The sun rises to insult me.
Jul 15, 2024
466
I don't think it disappointed me per se, I already knew what I was eventually heading into from looking at how other adults were faring.
 
Gangrel

Gangrel

Specialist
Jul 25, 2024
377
Adulthood is super disappointment island, work til you're tired, barely afford shit, worry about everything, have 10% of fun and 90% miserable, like okay thanks life lol while some rich fuck out there does nothing just because.
 
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sserafim

sserafim

brighter than the sun, that’s just me
Sep 13, 2023
9,013
Adulthood is super disappointment island, work til you're tired, barely afford shit, worry about everything, have 10% of fun and 90% miserable, like okay thanks life lol while some rich fuck out there does nothing just because.
Adulthood is slavery because work is modern day slavery
 
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EternalShore

EternalShore

Hardworking Lass who Dreams of Love~ 💕✨
Jun 9, 2023
957
It's hard to say it disappointed you when you feared it and knew it would be terrible from the start~ I remember crying about growing up when I was a kid~ :(
 
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R

rebelnow111

Member
Jul 12, 2024
48
I'm less disappointed in adulthood itself, though it is pretty soul-crushing. I'm way more disappointed in myself as an adult. I thought for sure that by now at 30 years old I should have already had most of the pieces of adulthood together like having my own place, a girlfriend if not a fiancée/wife, and a stable career. Instead I still live with my mom because she depends on me to take care of my sister, I have still never even had anything close to a romantic experience, and I work in a pretty minuscule part time job that would never even be enough to rent half of an apartment where I live.

The reason I'm more disappointed in myself as an adult than the very concept of adulthood itself is because I always knew that adulthood was going to be difficult but still I was so sure that at least at some point I should just have been able to get over any mental barriers in my mind. I'm still waiting for that day to come and now it seems I've missed the window on all of those things. Even though I know I could probably have all these things I want if I just got over it right now for some reason I just don't want to. It might be my anxiousness is clinging to doubts and regrets but knowing this doesn't make it any less crippling. I just end up hating myself more knowing that other people with my circumstances could easily make a better life than I have and that just depresses me more too.

People say your cognitive development is supposed to be fully formed at 25 but I only felt anything close to that when I was around 26 except that was the year the pandemic started which either set my development back after all this time and delayed it or worse, my cognitive development actually did finish at that point and now I'm locked into an immature evil doomer state with no hope of improving. The more I'm confronted with how much I'm unable to grow into adulthood the more I think the latter must be the case.
the brains cognative development is fully formed much younger then that. theres mature 17 year olds and immature 60 year olds. the obsession with prolonging childhood in this country only encourages abusive authority figures and makes life much worse by limiting choices till your so old your problems wont go away because you age more and it wont make u suddenly mature either. the ability 2 integrate new ideas reduces around 25 wich isint really the brain still developing at all. it doesnt make u more of an adult but can make u less of a younger more idealistic adult.
 
disjectamembra

disjectamembra

the universe is going to catch you
Oct 1, 2024
64
yes. i havent been an adult for very long, but with new responsibilities ive never never felt more lonelier than now. i also dont feel a sense of belonging with my family anymore. everything sucks even more now and i dont get treated neither as an adult nor a child. my depression got even worse
 
Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
21,012
the brains cognative development is fully formed much younger then that. theres mature 17 year olds and immature 60 year olds. the obsession with prolonging childhood in this country only encourages abusive authority figures and makes life much worse by limiting choices till your so old your problems wont go away because you age more and it wont make u suddenly mature either. the ability 2 integrate new ideas reduces around 25 wich isint really the brain still developing at all. it doesnt make u more of an adult but can make u less of a younger more idealistic adult.
Cognitive development =/= maturity level. It just means your brain stops growing and starts degenerating and there's proof that goes on until around the mid 20s. If someone happens to be completely immature whenever this decides to happen, then their mind is only going downhill from there. I didn't actually mean that I became more mature, it just felt like my brain stopped being able to do new things.
 
Csmith8827

Csmith8827

Don't you listen to your heart? (Listen to it...)
Oct 26, 2019
895
Adulthood is slavery because work is modern day slavery
You are right and I'm learning that now @ 35 years old. It's shitty. Unless I was making great pay maybe it wouldn't be but it's basically wage slavery and being forced to be somewhere locked down for a certain amount of hours. It's basically slavery.
 
-nobodyknows-

-nobodyknows-

Arcanist
Jun 16, 2024
435
I don't know if "disappointing" is the right way to describe it, but I had hoped things would have changed for the better somehow by the time I was an adult. Unfortunately, they did not.
 
LunarLight

LunarLight

i'm a loser, a failure
Apr 3, 2024
1,368
Yeah, a lot. I can't take the stress of adulthood. That's why I'm so isolated.
 

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