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Do you believe in God

  • Yes

    Votes: 19 27.9%
  • No

    Votes: 49 72.1%

  • Total voters
    68
Mirelight

Mirelight

Just going through life's motions
May 21, 2024
226
I'm not trying to convince you that god exists, I'm just trying to convince you that these traditions are not outlandish by any means, but expressions of profound metaphysical ideas. Wether you think theyre true or not is another question.

Its mot about faith. Spirituality at its core is pure intellectual intuition. You know something because youve tsharpened your faculties to the point where you can clearly dissern the true from the untrue. Modern svience makes use of this intuition while simultaniously denying ots existenfe, or its ability to make any authoritative claims about reality.

Profane science doesnt really lay a claim on truth. Its ability to generate factual information and convert them into practically applicable solutions that have proven to be incredibly useful to humanity is undisputed; my point, or the point the video makesy, is that you cannot confidently say god doesnt exist if you havent explored all aspects of reality and are restricting truth to the realm of mere sensory experience.

Sorry if I havent resoondend to everything you said, I find these debates quite exhausting. The gap between what you and I believe is so great that its almost impossible to find common ground to build our arguments on.

The sources is James Cutsinger, former professor and religious scholar. Himself an orthodox christian. Link to the full talk is in the description.

Sorry if I havent resoondend to everything you said, I find these debates quite exhausting.
Well we do have something in common I guess, let's just have a discussion then, we don't have to debate really, it's not really a place for this I suppose.

Profane science doesnt really lay a claim on truth. Its ability to generate factual information and convert them into practically applicable solutions that have proven to be incredibly useful to humanity is undisputed; my point, or the point the video makesy, is that you cannot confidently say god doesnt exist if you havent explored all aspects of reality and are restricting truth to the realm of mere sensory experience.
Curious, what other aspect of reality are we talking about here?

Its mot about faith. Spirituality at its core is pure intellectual intuition. You know something because youve tsharpened your faculties to the point where you can clearly dissern the true from the untrue. Modern svience makes use of this intuition while simultaniously denying ots existenfe, or its ability to make any authoritative claims about reality.
Would you consider a physicist's intuition, which often gives them a higher than average chance of discovering physical truths about the natural world compared to a layperson, to count as 'spirituality' under this definition? If so, would it follow that a religiously devout person might have a higher chance of receiving God's revelation than a naysayer like me?
 
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sinfonia

sinfonia

Mage
Jun 2, 2024
525
Would you consider a physicist's intuition, which often gives them a higher than average chance of discovering physical truths about the natural world compared to a layperson, to count as 'spirituality' under this definition?
No, because a physicist is still studyimg the corporeal world. He's not searching for the eternal. But he's making use of the same faculties as a spiritual desciple (a Buddhist monk for example) would, that was my point.
Curious, what other aspect of reality are we talking about here?
What Plato called the world of ideas. The unchanging reality that underlies the world of forms.
If so, would it follow that a religiously devout person might have a higher chance of receiving God's revelation than a naysayer like me?
Most religious people are faith followers. They don't receive God's revelation directly, they simply believe in the teaching or revelation that was laid down by a sage or a prophet and aquire a connection with the divine by that means.
 
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star.trip

star.trip

Experienced
Oct 6, 2024
217
I do believe in the existence of some being (which is normally defined as God, although it could be another word used to refer to him).
I don't believe in religions because they try to make you believe in an idea of God similar to the one they want.
I never liked anyone telling me what to believe and how to believe.
 
Mirelight

Mirelight

Just going through life's motions
May 21, 2024
226
No, because a physicist is still studyimg the corporeal world. He's not searching for the eternal. But he's making use of the same faculties as a spiritual desciple (a Buddhist monk for example) would, that was my point.

What Plato called the world of ideas. The unchanging reality that underlies the world of forms.

Most religious people are faith followers. They don't receive God's revelation directly, they simply believe in the teaching or revelation that was laid down by a sage or a prophet and aquire a connection with the divine by that means.
What Plato called the world of ideas. The unchanging reality that underlies the world of forms.
I did look into plato's world of ideas, I couldn't really agree with it but I think I got a gist of what you wanted to say. I've never really looked into the metaphysical description of reality before this. My question is what is the reason you trust this as your lens of viewing reality?
Most religious people are faith followers. They don't receive God's revelation directly, they simply believe in the teaching or revelation that was laid down by a sage or a prophet and aquire a connection with the divine by that means.
And what validates the claims of these prophet and sages? You seem to be a christian, do you consider Muhammad a prophet of god? What about Joseph Smith? What about Donald Trump? What makes them a prophet? Their self proclamation? Others proclaiming them as such? Or is there some other category?

Are you Christian? If yes do you believe this universe has an ultimate and uncontested creator?
 
pthnrdnojvsc

pthnrdnojvsc

Extreme Pain is much worse than people know
Aug 12, 2019
3,765
Maybe the most recent version, which is partially based on the previous version, all the way down the chain.

True, there isn't solid, scientific proof for or against the existence of a higher power. Only a variety of beliefs in the existence, non existence, and potential existence of a higher power.
what religion are you ?

I will always be sure there is no afterlife, reincarnation, god and all the other things i named. i will never surrender. i know only my reason and my brain to figure and do things with first principles and logic
 
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sinfonia

sinfonia

Mage
Jun 2, 2024
525
My question is what is the reason you trust this as your lens of viewing reality?
Because I looked at all other fields of knowledge and found that none of them could answer the most fundemantal questions of life (such as the existence of suffering, or the arising ans fading away of phenomena). That's what made me turn to metaphysics.

And what validates the claims of these prophet and sages?
You can infer certain things about a person's wisdom by their manner of speaking and their way of conducting themselves.

There are also instituions like the church or the sangha that can guide you to an authentic teacher. However most of them have become defunct in modern times; only the eastern orthodox church is still reliable in this respect.

The ultimate validation comes from realizimg these truths within yourself. There is a great Sutta about this in the Pali Canon called 'the shorter discourse on the simili of the elephant's footprint'.

do you consider Muhammad a prophet of god?
Yes.
What about Joseph Smith?
No.
What about Donald Trump?
No.
 
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EmptyBottle

EmptyBottle

🔑 Friends with Aera23
Apr 10, 2025
1,239
>none of them could answer the most fundemantal questions of life (such as the existence of suffering...)
for me, the book of Job seems to suggest that suffering may (unfortunately) be because the devil can test ppl (but not directly harm them)... tho God keeps him in check (usually).

I think the afterlife (at least heaven) has hardly any suffering.

I can't wait for the day when the devil is overthrown, too much suffering exists in this world because of him.
 
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Mirelight

Mirelight

Just going through life's motions
May 21, 2024
226
Because I looked at all other fields of knowledge and found that none of them could answer the most fundemantal questions of life (such as the existence of suffering, or the arising ans fading away of phenomena). That's what made me turn to metaphysics.


You can infer certain things about a person's wisdom by their manner of speaking and their way of conducting themselves.

There are also instituions like the church or the sangha that can guide you to an authentic teacher. However most of them have become defunct in modern times; only the eastern orthodox church is still reliable in this respect.

The ultimate validation comes from realizimg these truths within yourself. There is a great Sutta about this in the Pali Canon called 'the shorter discourse on the simili of the elephant's footprint'.


Yes.

No.

No.

Because I looked at all other fields of knowledge and found that none of them could answer the most fundemantal questions of life (such as the existence of suffering, or the arising ans fading away of phenomena). That's what made me turn to metaphysics.
Evolution has quite good of an answer for suffering imo. physical pain signals harm or potential dangar, prompting organisms to avoid threats, emotional suffering, can motivate behaviors that can enhance survival, such as avoiding predators or maintaining social bonds. Evolution favors traits that increase survival and reproduction, so it's outcome doesn't necessarily focus on yourhappiness. It's a byproduct of systems prioritizing survival not a good life.

I couldn't understand what you mean by arising and fading away of phenomena tho. Are you asking why time exists? Why things seem to fleeting and temporary maybe? I don't think everything needs a reason to happen. Because for every question if you continuously keep asking why, you quickly realize the meaninglessness of everything. Theism has a good defense against this, every question eventually points towards 'because god intended so', and asking why about god's machinations is considered blasphemy... but sill let us consider why would god create us? For his amusement? Why does he needs to be amused? Because he is lonely maybe? Why does he feel lonely? Because he as no one other than himself? Why is he the only one out there? Because....? even the most kindest of the priest would stop after this and asks us to not ask any more stupid questions. That is why I believe there is no such thing as ultimate omni creator as even the existence of such a being is ultimately meaningless, at the cosmic scale everything is meaningless. Everything that has some meaning to us is at a small rock, at some corner of the universe.

You can infer certain things about a person's wisdom by their manner of speaking and their way of conducting themselves.
Things like? I would personally infer only one thing, they are really good with thier words and would make a good sales person or con artist. Personally I would never give and individual such a reverence that I follow every word he says (as religious people tend to do for their prophet). I understand giving limited power over oneself to someone, like a team leader during some kind of project, but never your absolute being upon someone's word. Power corrputs people and absolute power corrupts absolutly. I would rather have my life guided around by loosely by an ideology, a set of self impose rules you never break. That's why people perfer constitutions over dictators.

Why no for Joseph Smith but yes for Muhammad?
 
Z

Zerengin96

Student
Jun 14, 2022
134
Not in any human made god like in the bible or the koran, but i believe there is something unexplainable in essence "above our universe" so to say
 

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