Discussion Do pro-lifers fear the void or nothingness?

[TAW122]

This is more of a philosophical question that I wondered about pro-lifers, trying to understand it from their perspective. Sometimes, I pondered whether pro-lifers themselves feared the void (nothingness) and non-existence itself because of them only understanding and knowing the state of sentience (being alive) but not non-existence (the time prior to sentience and the time after death). Perhaps that may also be why religion was invented (or at least one of the reasons) as a way to cope with non-existence or death itself, though that is another topic altogether. Maybe there is another cause or reason such that they are so death-averse, due to only having known what it is to be alive, and lack the introspection or critical thinking to ponder or comprehend what non-existence is would be the reason that they fear nothingness and do everything they can to distract themselves, avoid the topic of death, nor even consider death to be an acceptable outcome in specific circumstances.

What do you guys think? Do you think it is due to their ignorance and inability to comprehend or is there something else that is at play?

 

[HoneyandGlass]

I'm not so sure it is a lack of comprehension on their part. I have known people who would be classed as prolife whi have had horrendous lives, they have felt suicidal, they have been where I am. Yet, somehow, they find a way to live with that pain. They keep going. They can still laugh and find joy in things. They dont live any kind of privileged life either. Far worse than mine. I am quite privileged and i come from a privileged background. I have often wondered whether I am just not able to manage pain as well. We are all different obviously and I think we should perhaps be able to accept everyone's differences.

I think humans are programmed to live, hence thr SI issues. It is natural to fight for life not against it. I think it is just simple human nature. From knowing the people I know, I know they know what death is, they don't fear death. They have stared death in the face and they have experienced the death of loved ones. I find it difficult to just people in a box and label them prolife. They experience life differently to us and that is okay.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I don't think all pro lifers do fear the void. My God Father once made my God Mother very upset over dinner saying he was ready to die. It wasn't that he hated life. Quite the opposite- they loved their lives. It was more that he'd done all he wanted to do, he was feeling the effects of illness and old age and he genuinely felt at peace to go. He wasn't even dieing at that point. It wasn't a depressive episode or anything- he wasn't suicidal either- as far as I'm aware. It was just a logical- I've had my fill. I'm not really sure about his religious beliefs though. Maybe he believed in an afterlife.

I couldn't really say about people who REALLY fear the state of being dead. I don't actually know that many! I know plenty who are frightened of the process... A friend of my Dad's was apparently terrified of his own mortality but (unsurprisingly,) he didn't like to talk about it.

It has always seemed weird to me- it's like- you (likely) won't even know about it- so what is there to worry about or feel like you would miss or regret about your life? Fear of an afterlife I DEFINITELY understand.

With regards to religion- definitely- I would say- partly a comfort blanket- we never really loose the ones that die before us- we'll see them again. Partly arrogance- we're FAR too important to only be mere flesh and bone mortals. Partly scare tactics- follow the rules or go to hell/ be reincarnated over and over.

 

[FuneralCry]

Yes, I believe that they very likely do fear the thought of being dead, so they place so much value on life and view it as something that must be prolonged, rather than seeing it as being a personal choice whether to continue existing or not. The fact that they fear our inevitable fate could be a reason why they try and force their beliefs onto others and could be why someone voluntarily choosing death over life scares them as it shatters their worldview that existence is always worth enduring. It does seem like to me whenever I see something pro life, it's like these people forget that we will all die anyway.

And after all, continuing to exist is only delaying the inevitable, that's all that existing could ever be, so if someone wishes to leave to prevent unnecessary suffering then there could never be anything wrong with that. In fact it makes sense to me to wish to leave.

 

[HoneyandGlass]

"Continuing to exist delays the inevitable" - sure, we all die. Some don't want to choose that some do choose that. Who are we to say what anyone is or isn't afraid of. I don't think blanket statements should be thrown over people and for them to be labelled. It's no different to discrimination in many ways or rights, beliefs and feelings of any going through gender or sexuality issues. People feel what they feel and no one can say feelings are wrong. We feel as we do. Others feel as they do. So be it. What foes it matter in the greater scheme of things really?

 

[TAW122]

I'm not so sure it is a lack of comprehension on their part. I have known people who would be classed as prolife whi have had horrendous lives, they have felt suicidal, they have been where I am. Yet, somehow, they find a way to live with that pain. They keep going. They can still laugh and find joy in things. They dont live any kind of privileged life either. Far worse than mine. I am quite privileged and i come from a privileged background. I have often wondered whether I am just not able to manage pain as well. We are all different obviously and I think we should perhaps be able to accept everyone's differences.

I think humans are programmed to live, hence thr SI issues. It is natural to fight for life not against it. I think it is just simple human nature. From knowing the people I know, I know they know what death is, they don't fear death. They have stared death in the face and they have experienced the death of loved ones. I find it difficult to just people in a box and label them prolife. They experience life differently to us and that is okay.

That's an interesting take. I think you are correct in your 2nd paragraph, especially regarding human nature and the SI. They do indeed experience 'life' differently from us which is also another reason why they don't see it the same way we do.

I don't think all pro lifers do fear the void. My God Father once made my God Mother very upset over dinner saying he was ready to die. It wasn't that he hated life. Quite the opposite- they loved their lives. It was more that he'd done all he wanted to do, he was feeling the effects of illness and old age and he genuinely felt at peace to go. He wasn't even dieing at that point. It wasn't a depressive episode or anything- he wasn't suicidal either- as far as I'm aware. It was just a logical- I've had my fill. I'm not really sure about his religious beliefs though. Maybe he believed in an afterlife.

I couldn't really say about people who REALLY fear the state of being dead. I don't actually know that many! I know plenty who are frightened of the process... A friend of my Dad's was apparently terrified of his own mortality but (unsurprisingly,) he didn't like to talk about it.

It has always seemed weird to me- it's like- you (likely) won't even know about it- so what is there to worry about or feel like you would miss or regret about your life? Fear of an afterlife I DEFINITELY understand.

With regards to religion- definitely- I would say- partly a comfort blanket- we never really loose the ones that die before us- we'll see them again. Partly arrogance- we're FAR too important to only be mere flesh and bone mortals. Partly scare tactics- follow the rules or go to hell/ be reincarnated over and over.

Your God Father is quite rational based on how you described what he said, and I think the God Mother just didn't see that death was really an acceptable outcome and/or perhaps even that talking about it was unpleasant due to the fact that most people (even if death was inevitable, eventually as all living things, humans included, expire/die at some future point in time) just want to avoid the topic of death. As for religion, yes that is true that it was an invention used for social control as well as humanity's imperfect solution to address death, thus by many religions the idea of an afterlife was some way to cope with death and to presume that there is some part of existence and sentience that carries over. As an atheist, I don't buy into the religious arguments and thus is irrelevant towards me, contrary to some religious pro-lifers who like to use (like you said) scare tactics to try to intimidate, proselytize, and/or change another person's mind.

Yes, I believe that they very likely do fear the thought of being dead, so they place so much value on life and view it as something that must be prolonged, rather than seeing it as being a personal choice whether to continue existing or not. The fact that they fear our inevitable fate could be a reason why they try and force their beliefs onto others and could be why someone voluntarily choosing death over life scares them as it shatters their worldview that existence is always worth enduring. It does seem like to me whenever I see something pro life, it's like these people forget that we will all die anyway.

And after all, continuing to exist is only delaying the inevitable, that's all that existing could ever be, so if someone wishes to leave to prevent unnecessary suffering then there could never be anything wrong with that. In fact it makes sense to me to wish to leave.

Yes, all life that is created is set on an inevitable path towards oblivion, the only differences is the means, the time, and location, and circumstances for said individual(s). Some people end up dying peacefully at an old age, some die young, some die undignified, some lead horrific lives all the way to the end (and oftenly die uncomfortably, undignified), and the possibilities of suffering is endless. Non-existence and non-sentience itself is really the true winner as they never entered sentience or life itself.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Your God Father is quite rational based on how you described what he said, and I think the God Mother just didn't see that death was really an acceptable outcome

Definitely and I don't believe all pro lifers are irrational to either see worth in life (even though I personally don't) but also, not fear death. I personally believe our perceptions on life and death come about because of our experiences and I suppose the way we have been genetically made up to perceive them.

Some people are willing to accept and enjoy the nature of our existence without fighting it at every turn. (How I envy them .)

Yes, my God Mum was a beautiful and highly sensitive person. Just the talk of his passing enabled her to envisage the pain of grief she was going to feel when it finally happened. I imagine that's common to many of us who have lost loved ones or fear to do so.

 

[gimzero]

For sure they want to suffer us.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

This is more of a philosophical question that I wondered about pro-lifers, trying to understand it from their perspective. Sometimes, I pondered whether pro-lifers themselves feared the void (nothingness) and non-existence itself because of them only understanding and knowing the state of sentience (being alive) but not non-existence (the time prior to sentience and the time after death). Perhaps that may also be why religion was invented (or at least one of the reasons) as a way to cope with non-existence or death itself, though that is another topic altogether. Maybe there is another cause or reason such that they are so death-averse, due to only having known what it is to be alive, and lack the introspection or critical thinking to ponder or comprehend what non-existence is would be the reason that they fear nothingness and do everything they can to distract themselves, avoid the topic of death, nor even consider death to be an acceptable outcome in specific circumstances.

What do you guys think? Do you think it is due to their ignorance and inability to comprehend or is there something else that is at play?

I think prolifers and most humans have no concept of how brief and insignificant a human / monkey / primate / animal life is.
In 130 years nothing any human / primate did now will matter because then 130 years from today every human alive now will be dead and nonexistent forever.

Even less in 200 years , 1000 years and so on. What will matter in 500 years? Nothing. 10,000 years? In 1000 years Every human alive now will be long non-existent and long forgotten .
If you zoom out and see the big bang to the heat death of the universe, the 10 billion year life of the earth and Sun is a blip and the lifetime of a human less than an insignificant blip.
Most older people will agree how the decades did fly by like a blink of an eye . And even younger people might see that the year 2022 flew by and now we are about to see 2023 and it will be here like that snap.
I and imo science don't see a difference between me and a rat dead on the side of the road. A human has 92% the same genes as a mouse.

 

[MG_39]

I used to have a life I really enjoyed, before I got sick. But never feared death or nothingness.

There are a couple of ways to get rid of this fear. 1. What I did, from an early age I understood that life have no meaning in a bigger perspective, we live for a short time and then it's either nothingness or maybe some afterlife, but since i would never know until I die, it didn't really matter, I just enjoyed the life I had. 2. People resort to religious beliefs and find comfort in thoughts like "This is just the beginning, and after this life there will be an awesome eternity without any suffering" even if not all religious people feel certain about this, they try to stick to this thought. 3. People try to avoid thinking about what happens after death, but this will catch up as they get older and start to think more about how time is running out.