Debated an extreme pro lifer today

[noname223]

He is a self-called disability activist. I explained him if he really wants to be pro people with disabilities he has to be pro assisted suicide. Whereas his position is: no suicide is rational, and he agreed to a fundamental-christian approach to suicide. He was very opposed to euthanasia and compared it to Nazi-Germany.
I explained that people like him are responsible that innocent people are forced to commit suicide very brutally like throwing themselves in front of a train. He replied that a patient degree would be enough for those people. I explained that not everyone who wants to die is terminally ill.
He did not answer till now. If he does not answer i will shame him on social media. How hypocritical he is, how much damage people like him produce and that he should not have the right to speak in our name.
However he has some good points that people with disabilities should be better treated more inclusively in our society.

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

He sounds very ignorant and likely believes that all disabilities are manageable which isn't true. Only the person experiencing their own situation knows if it's worth living and our society doesn't really offer any practical help for people who are disabled. Nobody should be obligated to stay alive for anyone else's sake, least of all for a society that mostly pretends that it helps the disabled.

Subjecting people to torture and cruelty in psychiatric prisons against their will is like Nazi-Germany; euthanasia and suicide are voluntary choices, is this person a moron? I'd recommend sending him these quotes but I'm inclined to believe that people who are anti-choice have the IQ of a banana and the moral compass of Hitler so I very much doubt he'll learn anything.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/insightful-quotes-by-the-suicidal.60615/post-1137900

 

[WornOutLife]

You shouldn't have wasted your precious time with such an ignorant and negligent individual.

I used to argue with those kinds of people lots but I realized t wasn't worth.

I'm so glad to have found a community like SS! Love u all

 

[noname223]

It is kind of funny. But i do not do this very often. In my homecountry assisted suicide might be soon available for many people. I support politicians who want to make it possible. This time is very crucial,

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

They have not experienced enough pain... yet.

 

[notreallynow]

I understand how frustrating it is, but I don't think shaming is the answer. I do understand where disability activists come from. Fact is, a lot of disabled people kill themselves because of how they are treated - the external things they are denied, the help they can't receive, the costs of medical care in (in certain countries..!) It's not difficult to see how suicide as a socially accepted pathway would become embraced by greedy fucks if it could save them money. And there would be even less incentive to help people who are capable of and who WANT to live.

At the end of the day, government and power aren't in the hands of pro-lifers. Society isn't run by bleeding hearts. Of all the problems in the world, 'too much value placed on human life' isn't really one of them. These activists ultimately believe some people finding it harder to end their lives is worth avoiding the potential repercussions of the state 'validating' death as a solution to problems they are supposed to fix. A lot of them are genuinely afraid their lives will get worse. They want to live as much as others want to die. Both sides are being a little selfish; that's human nature. But they both want to reduce suffering. It's a complex debate, because there is a big difference between a personal decision, and what happens when you incorporate that decision into the state..

The part where I ( and I think a lot of people) really disagree is when it comes to people have conditions like locked-in syndrome. Activists say allowing assisted suicide for these conditions is devaluing their lives, is suggesting certain conditions are incompatible with life, ect. Whether people admit it or not, there is something different about these conditions: they don't have the choice. No matter how much suicide is stigmatised, no matter the difficulty, whether people admit it or no: death for people with even most severe disabilities is achievable with a piece of clothing and an hour so alone. Or, as Seneca said, you need only turn over your wrists. Pleasant, easy? No, but it's there, and everyone knows it, deep down. Only in places like death row will they take this away from you. Death row, and people who physically cannot move any of their limbs. It's the one thing that's especially cruel, to deny this thing that almost everyone has, to people who are suffering because they lack the most basic autonomy people take for granted.

 

[noname223]

I think greedy people are now trying people to scam people way more with fake N or SN than if assisted suicide was legal. Just look at the scam thread.
The highest court in my homecountry has ruled that autonomy is a higher value than the protection of life that might be safed.
I think this was a very brave decision and right to do so. It ruled that almost everyone, even healthy people can seek assisted suicide.
HOwever the law is likely not to be implemented this way.
I think greedy people are now trying people to scam people way more with fake N or SN than if assisted suicide was legal. Just look at the scam thread.
The highest court in my homecountry has ruled that autonomy is a higher value than the protection of life that might be safed.
I think this was a very brave decision and right to do so. It ruled that almost everyone, even healthy people can seek assisted suicide.
HOwever the law is likely not to be implemented this way.

 

[Buffy5120]

He is a self-called disability activist. I explained him if he really wants to be pro people with disabilities he has to be pro assisted suicide. Whereas his position is: no suicide is rational, and he agreed to a fundamental-christian approach to suicide. He was very opposed to euthanasia and compared it to Nazi-Germany.
I explained that people like him are responsible that innocent people are forced to commit suicide very brutally like throwing themselves in front of a train. He replied that a patient degree would be enough for those people. I explained that not everyone who wants to die is terminally ill.
He did not answer till now. If he does not answer i will shame him on social media. How hypocritical he is, how much damage people like him produce and that he should not have the right to speak in our name.
However he has some good points that people with disabilities should be better treated more inclusively in our society.

Its definitely not worth it. You have to realize these people are brainwashed. They will never change until they experience the same. Please do not waste your time on ignorant pea brained idiots. It will stress you out even more.

He sounds very ignorant and likely believes that all disabilities are manageable which isn't true. Only the person experiencing their own situation knows if it's worth living and our society doesn't really offer any practical help for people who are disabled. Nobody should be obligated to stay alive for anyone else's sake, least of all for a society that mostly pretends that it helps the disabled.

Subjecting people to torture and cruelty in psychiatric prisons against their will is like Nazi-Germany; euthanasia and suicide are voluntary choices, is this person a moron? I'd recommend sending him these quotes but I'm inclined to believe that people who are anti-choice have the IQ of a banana and the moral compass of Hitler so I very much doubt he'll learn anything.

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/insightful-quotes-by-the-suicidal.60615/post-1137900

Nobody should be obligated to stay alive for anyone else's sake, least of all for a society that mostly pretends that it helps the disabled. Yes omfg thank you this quote right here we have to stay alive bc of these manipulative assholes.

They have not experienced enough pain... yet.

Exactly

 

[Mentalmick]

The best way to debate these imbeciles is with an angry rottweiler in the middle of a nam flashback.

 

[Buffy5120]

Pro-lifers are not aware of reality. Today I was in the walmart parking lot and i saw some seagulls scavening the parking lot. And i was just watching them and thinking look at them they are just dumb machines just feeding but they don't have any idea the torture that awaits them when they get old or get an injury and can't feed or defend itself against predators. but then i thought really what is the difference between that seagul and a human not much both have eyes , mouth, head, brain , heart , 2 legs etc and the same ignorance not seeing what is heading for them the extreme torture of old age. Well most humans imo don't see this are are just like animals just acting out their programs feeding , cleaning , having children etc. not for a moment stopping to think to see the real hell that reality is . of course pro-lifers are the most insane : but they have most people obliviuos to reality as they have most peopl thinking that old age is something to look forward to , that torturous pain and even the ultimate certaintity Death is for someone else not them . oh no they think they are forever young and healthy and that they have time to waste on ridiculous acitivities like watching youtube videos or TV ...

Yup and in a way I feel like us trying to help legalize peaceful ways out will even help them when they finally get a chronic illness they just aren't aware of it yet. And when they then finally do get sick, thats when they will realize we were right all along. Whats crazy I read an article about a pro lifer who was just like the person op was talking about then got into a accident and couldnt take it and ctb. What you said is just that "they are oblivious to reality"

 

[noname223]

I understand how frustrating it is, but I don't think shaming is the answer. I do understand where disability activists come from. Fact is, a lot of disabled people kill themselves because of how they are treated - the external things they are denied, the help they can't receive, the costs of medical care in (in certain countries..!) It's not difficult to see how suicide as a socially accepted pathway would become embraced by greedy fucks if it could save them money. And there would be even less incentive to help people who are capable of and who WANT to live.

At the end of the day, government and power aren't in the hands of pro-lifers. Society isn't run by bleeding hearts. Of all the problems in the world, 'too much value placed on human life' isn't really one of them. These activists ultimately believe some people finding it harder to end their lives is worth avoiding the potential repercussions of the state 'validating' death as a solution to problems they are supposed to fix. A lot of them are genuinely afraid their lives will get worse. They want to live as much as others want to die. Both sides are being a little selfish; that's human nature. But they both want to reduce suffering. It's a complex debate, because there is a big difference between a personal decision, and what happens when you incorporate that decision into the state..

The part where I ( and I think a lot of people) really disagree is when it comes to people have conditions like locked-in syndrome. Activists say allowing assisted suicide for these conditions is devaluing their lives, is suggesting certain conditions are incompatible with life, ect. Whether people admit it or not, there is something different about these conditions: they don't have the choice. No matter how much suicide is stigmatised, no matter the difficulty, whether people admit it or no: death for people with even most severe disabilities is achievable with a piece of clothing and an hour so alone. Or, as Seneca said, you need only turn over your wrists. Pleasant, easy? No, but it's there, and everyone knows it, deep down. Only in places like death row will they take this away from you. Death row, and people who physically cannot move any of their limbs. It's the one thing that's especially cruel, to deny this thing that almost everyone has, to people who are suffering because they lack the most basic autonomy people take for granted.

I think if assisted suicide is illegal it is way easier to scam people who want to die. Just look at the scam thread. Greedy fucks already try to get money by scamming suicidal people. I think if an instituition in a functioning democracy would legalize it just like in Netherlands, Switzerland and Belgium this would hinder greedy people to gain money through us. Moreover the society would not stigmatize suicide in such a tremendous way.