Current self & future self

[Firaga]

Hi all. First post here, I've done some light reading of the FAQs and rules and whatnot and am fairly confident this is okay to post, and I would appreciate any feedback if it isn't.

There's this idea that, our future selves are not the same people as our current selves. In a way, we have no idea if our future selves would consent to the decision of taking our life. Though, if we're successful, that person doesn't exist, so it's not relevant - except, that's my entire point.

I'm on the fence on whether or not I want to take my life, though have been taking steps to do so. This philosophical argument is one that's convincing me that, perhaps my future self would be grateful that I did not make the decision to take my life - participating on this forum in-and-of-itself is a way for me to (intentionally) wear down the barriers that are keeping me from taking my life, and I am currently juggling how much engagement I want to have here. Regardless, my own personal circumstances aren't what I'm here to discuss.

To me, it feels like kicking the can down the road. Measuring whether or not I'm psychologically capable of making this decision for myself seems to be very difficult, and I don't know where the line is, so I'm curious on your thoughts. Apologies if this has been talked about a lot.

Edit: To clarify,

I am wondering people's thoughts on what it means to be "psychologically capable of" making that decision for themselves.

A question I've posed in a philosophy discussion group for example was, how many days in a row do you have to be confident in this decision in order to make it for yourself? 30? 90? 180? Who makes that decision? What is that decision based off of? Where is the line, philosophically speaking, where society should accept somebody's decision to commit suicide rather than do everything they can to prevent it (and if you're in America, stick you with the medical bill )

 

[disabledaccount0452]

I don't think anybody on here will encourage and push you to commit suicide. That is a decision you have to make yourself.

Nobody can tell you if your future is worth keeping up the fight for or not.

We only really share information, experiences and our own opinions on the topic. What you do with these things is entirely up to you and you should never allow somebody to force you into doing anything major, especially something so quite literally life changing as suicide.

Either way, welcome to our little community <3

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Welcome to SS!

 

[Firaga]

Totally! Just to clarify, I am wondering people's thoughts on what it means to be "psychologically capable of" making that decision for themselves.

A question I've posed in a philosophy discussion group for example was, how many days in a row do you have to be confident in this decision in order to make it for yourself? 30? 90? 180? Who makes that decision? What is that decision based off of? Where is the line, philosophically speaking, where society should accept somebody's decision to commit suicide rather than do everything they can to prevent it (and if you're in America, stick you with the medical bill)

 

[joey2424]

This is an interesting thought. And of course there's no way of knowing who your future self might be and if things do get better for them and they are no longer suicidal. For most people who experience being suicidal, I think things do get better and they are glad to be alive. So most likely you are robbing that person by taking your life. If that feels unjust to you, maybe that's a reason to keep going. And maybe that's a blessing in disguise.

As for the other question, society has very low acceptance for suicide. But the way I see it, the waiting period should be at least a few years. Some situations are temporary and while emotions can be strong for a very long time, they can subside.

 

[X-sanguinate86]

Your theoretical future self might also tell you that continuing to live is a gamble that doesn't make much sense, so whatever future possibilities there might be for yourself, deciding not to continue is still rational.

 

[XiaroX]

Welcome to SS!

Sorry you're here. But if it's a space you can talk and work things out, and figure out where to go from here, I would wish for your options, as I would for everyone here.

 

[DeathSweetDeath]

I think if you can envision a future version of yourself that's happy to be alive, that it's best to take whatever steps necessary to get to that point, however small. But not everyone has a potentially happy future version of themselves to work toward or wait for. I wish you luck in figuring it all out .

 

[XiaroX]

Totally! Just to clarify, I am wondering people's thoughts on what it means to be "psychologically capable of" making that decision for themselves.

A question I've posed in a philosophy discussion group for example was, how many days in a row do you have to be confident in this decision in order to make it for yourself? 30? 90? 180? Who makes that decision? What is that decision based off of? Where is the line, philosophically speaking, where society should accept somebody's decision to commit suicide rather than do everything they can to prevent it (and if you're in America, stick you with the medical bill)

I don't think it's a matter of days or years. It's a personal thing, when you know you've tried your best, and you've experienced and looked at the options fully, and know you can't try any harder and that no one is equipped to help in your complex circumstances, because you actually have a lot of experience with the 'help' available. But my situation is not yours, and the resources available might still work for you, and others, if you can find it in you to separate the wheat from the chaff, and vote for yourself.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Sorry you're here. But if it's a space you can talk and work things out, and figure out where to go from here, I would wish for your options, as I would for everyone here.

As I'm one of the older users here and I have already lived a good portion of my life, I don't think my future self will be much different from my current self. Nobody knows the future and what's gonna happen next.

Going back in time (about 20 years): Back then, I saw a totally different future self of me than what my current self is today. Well, that's one thing y I'm suicidal - I failed in life.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I can only speak personally. It's impossible for me to know other people's prospects or futures.

For me though- I've had ideation since I was 10. I'm 45 now. So- if it's length of time- 35 years would seem an excessive amount of time to be mulling the decision over! To clarify- I haven't been suicidal to the same intensity all that time but- I don't think the feelings and thoughts have ever entirely left either.

I suspect the normie/ pro-life view doesn't care too much about the time period though. I imagine their view is- if you have those thoughts, you're simply not thinking clearly. So- you need to do whatever it takes to 'get better'. To some extent- perhaps having the thoughts for a longer time could in fact be seen as more problematic. I personally feel like my suicidal thoughts are an ingrained part of my personality. So- are they genuine? I still think so. I still feel like I can rationalize in my own mind why I want out. To them though, I imagine they would see that as a long- term mental disorder and habitual thought pattern.

Maybe the strange part is- the suicidal feelings can stay but, the motives behind them can change. What made me suicidal as a 10 year old was different to what did as a 20 year old and now, a 45 year old.

It's kind of impossible to know whether a life will improve or not though. Plus- if the damage is done early on, chances I think are we will have been damaged in development. So- I think however our lives turn out, we'll be carrying that trauma with us.

I think ultimately though, it probably hinges on the individual. Can they still see any good possibilities in life? Are they willing to work (extremely) hard to get them?

I'm still here- not so much because I thought life would work out. More that I felt compelled to stay so as not to hurt others. I was lucky I suppose in that there were the odd lifeline here and there. I did feel very passionate about following a creative career. That kept me buoyant for a long time.

I suppose personally speaking though- if I look back at all the ages I have been suicidal. Would it really have been so bad if I'd just done it then? What would I have missed out on ultimately? In my case, I could have saved myself a bunch more pain and struggle! There were ok bits too of course but, I don't think they were worth it personally. That's my overall issue with life though- that it simply doesn't feel worth it.

Perhaps that's the question though ultimately. Can we make life feel worth the effort? What energy do we have left? What support could we perhaps ask for? How are our prospects looking? What, on the other hand will likely hold us back? Can we realistically mitigate our problems?

We can't know what's in our future but, we can look closely at ourselves and our circumstances. What do we want? How badly or well equipped are we to achieve that thing? How much work and suffering/ risk of failure are we willing to go through to get that thing? I think that will at least inform us of our potential of getting what we want.

Then of course- there's the issue of now. How bad is my life now? If it turns out I can't or won't do what I need to turn things around or, if I try and fail- can I continue living as I am now? Is there any likelihood of things getting worse?

For me- that feels reasonable to ask. I'm 45 now. My job can be challenging and unstable and I have no substantial pension. I can't see old age being fun for me!

Ultimately though- I don't think pro-lifers will ever agree. They'll continue to insist there is value in life, no matter what. Even if we are sitting in our own shit and feeding through a straw. But- that's fine for them- if they want to live like that. Personally, I'd rather not. I doubt we could get them to agree though.

With people who are more pro- choice, it's still very nuanced. It also touches on things like religion- the spiritual value of life. That influences some people's ideas. Faith in things like healthcare too. Are some illnesses actually incurable or, should people stick around and try everything?

Plus, maybe the most important one of all- our right to choose. Shouldn't we have that right? By insisting people stay for however long- six months, 2 years, 10 years- what is that actually doing? It's surely ignoring that person's insistence they want to leave.

What should they be doing in that time? Seeking treatment? What if they don't believe in it? I think mental healthcare especially is different to physical and, even physical ailments don't always have a cure. But, I think things like therapy hinge heavily on the patient making efforts to change their thinking and behaviour- which can be incredibly difficult to change. Especially for someone who is low on energy and will power to begin with so there- just how likely is it they will get better? Maybe drugs will kick start things but- not always.

I do actually agree with waiting periods for assisted suicide- maybe 6 months, to discourage impulsive attempts. But then, to put a time schedule to make sure a person is sure I think is pretty complicated. I don't know who could do it either. Asides from the person themselves ultimately. Obviously in consultation with others- doctors etc. What treatments are available, how successful are they? Ultimately though- they will be the ones going through all that. Who else but them can decide whether they want to?

 

[Ironweed]

There's this idea that, our future selves are not the same people as our current selves. In a way, we have no idea if our future selves would consent to the decision of taking our life. Though, if we're successful, that person doesn't exist, so it's not relevant - except, that's my entire point.

This whole argument strikes me as false. And quite frustrating in a way. As in, name one decision a human being can make with perfect knowledge of the future. Of course, there isn't any. You might be in love at one point in time, commit to a relationship and get royally fucked over down the road. You might take what you think is a dream job and it turns into a nightmare, and on and on. In other words, it is impossible to make any kind of major decision applying the logic at work here if your concern is the well-being of an entirely hypothetical "future self."

The counterargument would be to note that you can recover from a failed relationship, you can move on from a terrible job, etc., while with a suicide that is the end of the line. Game over, etc. But that still doesn't get past the fundamental flaw at play here: namely, the decision made in the present is made from incomplete knowledge, whether that decision is suicide, buying a new car or deciding what to eat for lunch. Argument dismissed, as it lacks universal applicability.

As an aside, the reason why I find this "future self" business frustrating is (a) you ONLY ever seem to hear it applied to an action when that action happens to be consideration of suicide and (b) I do think suicide is an action that should only be taken after due consideration, and after a period of contemplation. What precisely constitutes "due consideration" and how long a "period of contemplation?" Eh, still working on that bit. But I will say you should never attempt suicide under the influence of drugs or alcohol and never attempt suicide in a spur of the moment in a state of high emotion, as a baseline position.

 

[Firaga]

This whole argument strikes me as false. And quite frustrating in a way. As in, name one decision a human being can make with perfect knowledge of the future. Of course, there isn't any. You might be in love at one point in time, commit to a relationship and get royally fucked over down the road. You might take what you think is a dream job and it turns into a nightmare, and on and on. In other words, it is impossible to make any kind of major decision applying the logic at work here if your concern is the well-being of an entirely hypothetical "future self."

The counterargument would be to note that you can recover from a failed relationship, you can move on from a terrible job, etc., while with a suicide that is the end of the line. Game over, etc. But that still doesn't get past the fundamental flaw at play here: namely, the decision made in the present is made from incomplete knowledge, whether that decision is suicide, buying a new car or deciding what to eat for lunch. Argument dismissed, as it lacks universal applicability.

As an aside, the reason why I find this "future self" business frustrating is (a) you ONLY ever seem to hear it applied to an action when that action happens to be consideration of suicide and (b) I do think suicide is an action that should only be taken after due consideration, and after a period of contemplation. What precisely constitutes "due consideration" and how long a "period of contemplation?" Eh, still working on that bit. But I will say you should never attempt suicide under the influence of drugs or alcohol and never attempt suicide in a spur of the moment in a state of high emotion, as a baseline position.

What are your thoughts on people suggesting using alcohol in order to further an attempt?