Venting ctb now or die of old age.

[Anhaedra]

Why is suicide considered a bad thing by society when we're all going to die in the end? Does it matter if we die now or tens of years later? This same argument could be reversed into a pro-life perspective, but it really doesnt make any sense. Why live for a potentially long and painful life when you have the choice to end it right now? Maybe because everyone's view of life and pain-tolerance is different, and not everyone is mentally ill as most of the people who consider suicide.
I don't know why I'm writing this post, just felt like venting some of the thoughts that's been stuck in my head.
What do you all think?

 

[NoPointOfReturning]

The point of life is to reproduce and have your children be successful. When you CTB early on, that's not possible obviously but I feel like if you have sub par genetics you shouldn't want to have children. If i'm a 4'10 female, no way in hell a go for a guy under 6'5 because otherwise my son would be like 5'5 and his life will be a constant failure.

 

[sos]

suicide is considered to be unacceptable bc everyone wants to be a superhero

some ppl think they can help but sometimes they simply can't and that's something they can't accept

if one thing doesn't work, another thing will work

it's kind of a positive mindset from others but at times it can be way too positive

and own personal experiences are usually brought up as well in those kind of situations bc yea, someone else has gone through a shit period and has gotten out of it, so why can't we

all they think can about are solutions, except the solution we really want

so yea, it's mostly the mindset that doesn't allow others to accept the fact that we no longer wanna live

 

[davidtorez]

I think everyone has their limitations in life, even "normies". I'd wager that you could put any non depressed nonsuicidal person in a situation where they'd rather die. Just ask anyone if they would rather live if they had both limbs chopped off and eyes plucked out , or would rather be dead . I would bet the majority of people would say they'd rather be dead. It's all subjective in the end .

 

[Anhaedra]

The point of life is to reproduce and have your children be successful. When you CTB early on, that's not possible obviously but I feel like if you have sub par genetics you shouldn't want to have children. If i'm a 4'10 female, no way in hell a go for a guy under 6'5 because otherwise my son would be like 5'5 and his life will be a constant failure.

I still wouldnt even give birth even if I had perfect genetics, there is no way you or anyone can guarente a life without pain (physically or mentally) to your offspring.

 

[davidtorez]

I still wouldnt even give birth even if I had perfect genetics, there is no way you or anyone can guarente a life without pain (physically or mentally) to your offspring.

You're definitely right here . It's playing Russian roulette with someone else's life . Procreating is ultimately pointless as the human species will go extinct one day just like majority of species before us. By procreating were only prolonging the inevitable end , and creating more slaves and hamsters on the hamster wheel.

 

[Randy Savage]

In my opinion, I think most people in our society condemn suicide because they see every last suicidal person as something that needs to be fixed. Regular people and pro-lifers think that suicide displays some kind of weakness of character that they feel the need to correct, which is expressed as being against suicide and suicidal people.

This is just a societal trend, though. I'm of the opinion that the current popular attitude of suicide is a result of wanting all harm to be reduced in both secular and religious ideology. People associated suicide with a soldier who didn't want to fall into enemy hands, a widow who had nothing left to live for, an old man who could no longer muster the strength to work.. people don't want that for others. Pair that with religions saying suicide is a sin because it harms one of god's creations and you have a perfect recipe for everyone to be unnaturally afraid of suicide

 

[NoPointOfReturning]

You're definitely right here . It's playing Russian roulette with someone else's life . Procreating is ultimately pointless as the human species will go extinct one day just like majority of species before us. By procreating were only prolonging the inevitable end , and creating more slaves and hamsters on the hamster wheel.

For every successful person who was born with perfect genetics to a millionaire dad, there are thousands of orphans who never got a fair chance in life. And yet normies want to gaslight me into thinking life is all sunshine and rainbows.

 

[davidtorez]

For every successful person who was born with perfect genetics to a millionaire dad, there are thousands of orphans who never got a fair chance in life. And yet normies want to gaslight me into thinking life is all sunshine and rainbows.

And if people really wanted to raise kids they could always adopt these orphans ! A much more ethical choice

 

[Lookingtoflyfree]

The point of life is to reproduce and have your children be successful. When you CTB early on, that's not possible obviously but I feel like if you have sub par genetics you shouldn't want to have children. If i'm a 4'10 female, no way in hell a go for a guy under 6'5 because otherwise my son would be like 5'5 and his life will be a constant failure.

Seriously? The point of life is not just to reproduce. That is toxic. Are you saying people who are unable to have kids, for example, through biological or financial means are failures?

The point of life is to live and help others, experience joy, and leave the world a bit better - if that involves kids great, but if it doesn't also great. We don't need this kind of toxicity.

 

[trappedinthislife]

Why is suicide considered a bad thing by society when we're all going to die in the end? Does it matter if we die now or tens of years later? This same argument could be reversed into a pro-life perspective, but it really doesnt make any sense. Why live for a potentially long and painful life when you have the choice to end it right now? Maybe because everyone's view of life and pain-tolerance is different, and not everyone is mentally ill as most of the people who consider suicide.
I don't know why I'm writing this post, just felt like venting some of the thoughts that's been stuck in my head.
What do you all think?

And the thing is, stuff gets worse as you age. Like my grandparents who I just visited today is starting to develop dementia. My grandpa had a stroke which he thankfully survived with no major damage. But I can't imagine it not getting worse - they're both 2 years away from being 80 years old.

I will miss them if they die but I feel like its cruel to keep them around. I really don't want to see them in pain. And I know eventually it'll be my parents in that position.

Why not just let old people CTB? Makes no sense.

Seriously? The point of life is not just to reproduce. That is toxic. Are you saying people who are unable to have kids, for example, through biological or financial means are failures?

The point of life is to live and help others, experience joy, and leave the world a bit better - if that involves kids great, but if it doesn't also great. We don't need this kind of toxicity.

Thank you so much genuinely. Im sick of this whole bs about how you have to have kids and leave a legacy. Having kids does not make you any better nor worse as a person.

 

[FuneralCry]

I'd personally always prefer to not exist than to suffer for decades just to be tormented by old age dying slowly and painfully. Old age just sounds so immensely hellish to me, I'd never wish for such agony, rather all I wish for is nothingness, it's just so dreadful to me how I cannot access a painless death like never waking again to escape from all pointless, undesirable suffering in an existence where one is just slowly dying, waiting to die anyway.

 

[donwhitman]

The thought of enduring old age is horrifying.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

We all will die anyway. Suicide prohibition is not about saving lives because every human will die anyway.Suicide prohibition is about controlling others.

 

[divinemistress36]

People assume everybodys problems can get better and the bad times are just temporary and that those who die early will miss out on joys of life . I get told this bs everyday Ive tried every treatment out there and still miserable but people act like something randomly will make life worth living out of the middle of nowhere. If its true that we came here to learn and experience we should be able to check out early if its to painful

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

The point of life is to reproduce and have your children be successful. When you CTB early on, that's not possible obviously but I feel like if you have sub par genetics you shouldn't want to have children. If i'm a 4'10 female, no way in hell a go for a guy under 6'5 because otherwise my son would be like 5'5 and his life will be a constant failure.

I think my genetics are okay but due to abuse my maturation got delayed and I was simply not in a position to bring a child into the world in good faith that I could take care of it. In a way I feel like I was murdered. I do think a person can epigenetically transfer something of themselves into the stream of humanity whether that be as a teacher or one of the many artists that effected people but did not procreate.

 

[NoPointOfReturning]

I think my genetics are okay but due to abuse my maturation got delayed and I was simply not in a position to bring a child into the world in good faith that I could take care of it. In a way I feel like I was murdered. I do think a person can epigenetically transfer something of themselves into the stream of humanity whether that be as a teacher or one of the many artists that effected people but did not procreate.

Hey man, just know it's not your fault. Don't let anyone ever tell you it's your fault because it's not. You didn't do anything wrong, some of us just weren't meant to live the greatest life. I appreciate that you're still here and have fought a long time through all the pain and suffering. I hope it pays off for you and you get somewhere nice in life. Love you. <3

 

[Lookingtoflyfree]

Clearly a couple of you don't know what biological evolution is. If we all had the mindset that reproducing is useless, our species would go extinct. "If you're paralyzed used, just stand up and walk bro!" theory. Yes you're a failure if you don't have kids, you're ruining your bloodline.

Some of us have genetic challenges from our parents who had hereditary diseases, so thanks for the 'failure ruining bloodline' comment. That's a garbage attitude to have about your fellow human. Shame on you

 

[NoPointOfReturning]

Some of us have genetic challenges from our parents who had hereditary diseases, so thanks for the 'failure ruining bloodline' comment. That's a garbage attitude to have about your fellow human. Shame on you

It's not an attitude, it's biological evolution. [deleted] The truth of the matter is that genetics rule who you are [deleted]

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

Hey man, just know it's not your fault. Don't let anyone ever tell you it's your fault because it's not. You didn't do anything wrong, some of us just weren't meant to live the greatest life. I appreciate that you're still here and have fought a long time through all the pain and suffering. I hope it pays off for you and you get somewhere nice in life. Love you. <3

I could have made some better strategic moves going into early adulthood, for that I have regret. There is no payoff for an aborted lifetime unless one want's to speculate on metaphysical or spiritual matters. But yes, I still have some nice places in mind on my way through this life. Thank you.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Most people miss and grieve for loved ones when they die. I think it simply comes down to that- they don't want to go through that pain until they have to. Parents likely hope they'll never have to go through it over their children. They likely assume that they will die first. But, a death in the family is huge to a lot of people.

I suppose I find it kind of odd when people talk about death so flippantly. I always kind of wonder- is it because they haven't lost anyone that close to them? Or, did it just really not affect them?

Mostly why I get so unhappy is because I am still grieving for my family members that have died (none of suicide.) Losing someone close to you can potentially tear your life apart. I imagine it can be so bad that it leads to more suicides in fact.

But basically- rather than maybe a few years of mourning someone, they could be facing a few decades. And, I think the pain a suicide causes is different to natural death. In fact, I suspect all types of deaths create slightly different feelings in the mourning process. A death that is expected due to old age and illness will likely still be upsetting but, perhaps the person will have been preparing themselves mentally. Someone who dies suddenly, in an accident, is murdered or, commits suicide is going to add shock and even guilt into the mix. Could they have been saved?

I think you quite often see anger after a suicide. As in- how could you have put me through this? It's got to be upsetting really that we do it deliberately, despite knowing how much it will hurt loved ones. Still, I think that's more societies fault at large. If we were more able to talk about suicide openly, people would have more of a chance to prepare themselves for it before it happens. Plus, they'd have a better grasp on why it happens. Some people may even be able to be helped in time. I think the way suicide is treated in our societies- as in absolutely forbidden to be discussed, is so counter productive.

 

[Lookingtoflyfree]

It's not an attitude, it's biological evolution. If you can't handle the truth then don't address these types of comments. The truth of the matter is that genetics rule who you are and if you have bad genetics you shouldn't have off spring.

I got a report that you've been warned. I would take it to heart before commenting to people. Genes don't rule who we are - we also have some level of free will. But I get it - you seem to be miserable and enjoy spreading your misery in your comments. I feel sorry for you.

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

Most people miss and grieve for loved ones when they die. I think it simply comes down to that- they don't want to go through that pain until they have to. Parents likely hope they'll never have to go through it over their children. They likely assume that they will die first. But, a death in the family is huge to a lot of people.

I suppose I find it kind of odd when people talk about death so flippantly. I always kind of wonder- is it because they haven't lost anyone that close to them? Or, did it just really not affect them?

Mostly why I get so unhappy is because I am still grieving for my family members that have died (none of suicide.) Losing someone close to you can potentially tear your life apart. I imagine it can be so bad that it leads to more suicides in fact.

But basically- rather than maybe a few years of mourning someone, they could be facing a few decades. And, I think the pain a suicide causes is different to natural death. In fact, I suspect all types of deaths create slightly different feelings in the mourning process. A death that is expected due to old age and illness will likely still be upsetting but, perhaps the person will have been preparing themselves mentally. Someone who dies suddenly, in an accident, is murdered or, commits suicide is going to add shock and even guilt into the mix. Could they have been saved?

I think you quite often see anger after a suicide. As in- how could you have put me through this? It's got to be upsetting really that we do it deliberately, despite knowing how much it will hurt loved ones. Still, I think that's more societies fault at large. If we were more able to talk about suicide openly, people would have more of a chance to prepare themselves for it before it happens. Plus, they'd have a better grasp on why it happens. Some people may even be able to be helped in time. I think the way suicide is treated in our societies- as in absolutely forbidden to be discussed, is so counter productive.

I think that society lumps all self-determined endings as the same and just rubber stamps it with "suicide" *gasp* adds to the stigma. In Orthodoxy suicides can't be buried in consecrated ground which adds to the spectacle of an entire family's public shaming within the congregation. This creates a powerful incentive in smaller communities to shame people that are struggling and discourage people from asking for help.

Also, there are people that use suicide to hurt others by doing it in front of them or leaving loved ones to find the body intentionally knowing they will blame themselves. To me this is completely different than someone that's been pushed to the brink by abuse, dealing with terminal illness or even a genuinely broken heart.

 

[nihilism__]

The point of life is to reproduce and have your children be successful. When you CTB early on, that's not possible obviously but I feel like if you have sub par genetics you shouldn't want to have children. If i'm a 4'10 female, no way in hell a go for a guy under 6'5 because otherwise my son would be like 5'5 and his life will be a constant failure.

Bro stop with the blackpill

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

It's not an attitude, it's biological evolution. If you can't handle the truth then don't address these types of comments. The truth of the matter is that genetics rule who you are and if you have bad genetics you shouldn't have off spring.

What's funny about our world is that some of the most wealthy and influential families have terrible genetics. Western royalty had haemophilia and Habsburg jaw from interbreeding. Even the godfather of evolution Darwin's family suffer hereditary migraines due to their multigenerational interbreeding with the Wedgwood family.

And modern war certainly levels out the genetic playing field. Society sends it's most fit and high performing males to die while those that happen to be born rich but are otherwise weak, dull and incompetent ascend the ranks.

In the prior centuries the only way to gat educated was through the church but this required celibacy as a monk so the acquired knowledge and learning ability was genetically dead ended.

Just about all 20th century revolutions entailed inciting the rabble into killing off of the opposing intelligencia of either real or perceived.

Our world is governed more under the law of the the devious and dark triad personality than actual fitness in the sense of intelligence, discipline, honor, strength and morals.

That said, I generally agree that people with obvious genetic concerns should be careful about procreating.

 

[davidtorez]

Seriously? The point of life is not just to reproduce. That is toxic. Are you saying people who are unable to have kids, for example, through biological or financial means are failures?

The point of life is to live and help others, experience joy, and leave the world a bit better - if that involves kids great, but if it doesn't also great. We don't need this kind of toxicity.

Maybe they meant the point of evolution , not the point of life itself? The point is evolution is clear . To pass on its genetics to the next generation by procreating and we as a human species aren't exempt from this. Which is why most people have the "biological clock" ticking . This doesn't mean procreating is a good thing or a necessary thing. I think the meaning of life is the meaning we give it. I don't believe there is any cosmic meaning to our existence or life, but we can find temporary terrestrial/local meaning however fleeting it may be.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Also, there are people that use suicide to hurt others by doing it in front of them or leaving loved ones to find the body intentionally knowing they will blame themselves. To me this is completely different than someone that's been pushed to the brink by abuse, dealing with terminal illness or even a genuinely broken heart.

I'm not so convinced it's different for the closest loved ones. Perhaps if the person is obviously suffering and that has been verified by doctors- in the case of terminal or chronic illness. I'd imagine, even more pro-life people can sympathise with someone in obvious constant physical pain wanting out.

But, you only have to look at the most fervent protesters of this forum to see that many other motives aren't accepted by families- eg. mental illness and broken hearts. They seem to assume that most things in life could and should be gotten over. I ran a poll a while back and, very few people here felt like their loved ones would support their decision.

No matter how easy we try and make it on them- regarding finding a body, leaving notes to try to explain, getting our affairs in order as much as we can, suicide still upsets people. I agree- there's certainly different levels of trauma we can (and should try) to spare them from but ultimately- most loved ones won't want their family and friends to die early.

Out of interest- do your family and loved ones know you want to CTB? Are they understanding? If you haven't told them though (which I imagine a lot of people here haven't,) surely that's because you're worried about the response. Because suicide isn't accepted by loved ones a lot of the time. People likely will try to put up resistance- even if you tell them you'll make sure it's done in a way to not directly involve them. How is it not going to involve them? They love us.

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

I'm not so convinced it's different for the closest loved ones. Perhaps if the person is obviously suffering and that has been verified by doctors- in the case of terminal or chronic illness. I'd imagine, even more pro-life people can sympathise with someone in obvious constant physical pain wanting out.

But, you only have to look at the most fervent protesters of this forum to see that many other motives aren't accepted by families- eg. mental illness and broken hearts. They seem to assume that most things in life could and should be gotten over. I ran a poll a while back and, very few people here felt like their loved ones would support their decision.

No matter how easy we try and make it on them- regarding finding a body, leaving notes to try to explain, getting our affairs in order as much as we can, suicide still upsets people. I agree- there's certainly different levels of trauma we can (and should try) to spare them from but ultimately- most loved ones won't want their family and friends to die early.

Out of interest- do your family and loved ones know you want to CTB? Are they understanding? If you haven't told them though (which I imagine a lot of people here haven't,) surely that's because you're worried about the response. Because suicide isn't accepted by loved ones a lot of the time. People likely will try to put up resistance- even if you tell them you'll make sure it's done in a way to not directly involve them. How is it not going to involve them? They love us.

You make a lot of good points and I'm probably thinking too abstract or theoretically about it. I've read a lot of posts on reddits suicide bereavement sub and it's common to see messages from over 10 years where a person still suffers from a loved one's suicide. This is a huge deterrent to me. And now that I think of it, oftentimes family finds the body but the context of the suicide doesn't appear to be out of malice.

Re my family situation - It's very complex. I have a sibling that's openly expressed wanting to die since early childhood. It's been an exhausting drain on the family. I always thought if it ever came to needing to ctb myself, I would just do it rather burden others to such an extent. I did a lot of self work over the years and enjoyed friends, career success, hobbies etc. For various reasons during the covid years, it's all unraveled and thrown me into a DPDR state like being thrown into a persistent nightmare. My mom is older now and I will not leave her in the lurch by ctb for the last years of her life. My sister's lifetime of resignation has caught up with her and now she has real health problems. and wants me to get her F to ctb. Honestly, out of mercy I would but unfortunately my position in this scenario would leave me legally culpable in a way I can't risk. Basically I have caregiver fatigue and see nothing but sad chapters in life from here on out. Once my immediate family is gone, I'll have little to live for. In the mean time, I'm doing what I can to stay afloat but it's hard as I feel cornered by fate.

 

[Forever Sleep]

You make a lot of good points and I'm probably thinking too abstract or theoretically about it. I've read a lot of posts on reddits suicide bereavement sub and it's common to see messages from over 10 years where a person still suffers from a loved one's suicide. This is a huge deterrent to me. And now that I think of it, oftentimes family finds the body but the context of the suicide doesn't appear to be out of malice.

Re my family situation - It's very complex. I have a sibling that's openly expressed wanting to die since early childhood. It's been an exhausting drain on the family. I always thought if it ever came to needing to ctb myself, I would just do it rather burden others to such an extent. I did a lot of self work over the years and enjoyed friends, career success, hobbies etc. For various reasons during the covid years, it's all unraveled and thrown me into a DPDR state like being thrown into a persistent nightmare. My mom is older now and I will not leave her in the lurch by ctb for the last years of her life. My sister's lifetime of resignation has caught up with her and now she has real health problems. and wants me to get her F to ctb. Honestly, out of mercy I would but unfortunately my position in this scenario would leave me legally culpable in a way I can't risk. Basically I have caregiver fatigue and see nothing but sad chapters in life from here on out. Once my immediate family is gone, I'll have little to live for. In the mean time, I'm doing what I can to stay afloat but it's hard as I feel cornered by fate.

It sounds like you have an enormous amount on your plate. I'm sorry so much has fallen on you. It's no wonder it's all feeling overwhelming. Sounds like you are having to be strong for multiple people.