CTB: differences between men & women?

[TAW122]

My take and my understanding is pretty much in line with @MeltingHeart and @Final Escape here. I do add that most men do generally choose more violent and reliable methods (firearms, hanging, jumping, etc.) while women generally go for less violent methods (OD'ing, cutting, etc.). As for impulsivity, I think both sexes are capable of being impulsive, it's hard to say whether males or females are more impulsive, it depends on their temperament and/or personality.

 

[zherhk]

Interesting stuff but with keeping in mind that 'violent or impulsive' act doesn't mean irrational choice.
I mean the choice is to end life.
The one we see jumping under a train I don't think came up to do so because started suffering 15minutes earlier.
To cut it short, the method could be impulsive, not planned etc, but the decision to exit rational and weighted and was already taken.
To me, the decision to CTB brings to the method and it's the decision that count.
Hanging or SN would eventually take to the same wanted result.

 

[epic]

I was reading through Wikipedia and found this " Studies have shown that females are 13–21% more likely than males to receive a psychiatric affective diagnosis. 72–89% of females who committed suicide had contact with a mental health professional at some point in their life and 41–58% of males who committed suicide had contact with a mental health professional."
This aligns well with the stereotype that men repress their emotions as @MeltingHeart said and wont reach out to other people while women are stereotyped as being more emotional and will reach out to healthcare professionals more often.

 

[WilliamKline]

Gender is a very important factor in suicide, such that male suicide rates are higher in all but 7 countries. Wikipedia has a page on this with per-sex per-country stats. Since death is (in almost any country) determined by a physician, we've got quite reliable stats on that. Legislation might skew the stats since suicide is illegal in some places (). As for attempts, I'm not sure if there's reliable data.

Just to clarify, for myself, as well as others, is OP hypothesizing that the number of attempts per (successful) suicide is higher with men than with women?

Edit: since gender is such an obvious variable in suicide there is a large body of scientific work on this

 

[k75]

I actually think age is more of a factor here than gender.

I have nothing against young people at all, but they do tend to be more emotionally driven, much more impulsive, more likely to fake attempts and cry out for help because that's the only way they can think of to get the attention they need for help, and they have less access to reliable methods.

The gender debate is pretty pointless.

 

[WilliamKline]

I actually think age is more of a factor here than gender.

I have nothing against young people at all, but they do tend to be more emotionally driven, much more impulsive, more likely to fake attempts and cry out for help because that's the only way they can think of to get the attention they need for help, and they have less access to reliable methods.

The gender debate is pretty pointless.

When controlling for age, gender is a very important variable in suicide. This website has some awesome stats btw - we appear to be neighbors with HIV/AIDS and Malaria in Number of deaths by cause, just a little nice to know

 

[MeltingHeart]

When controlling for age, gender is a very important variable in suicide. This website has some awesome stats btw

Not relevant but I adore joaquin phoenix, what film is that from? @WilliamKline

 

[WilliamKline]

@MeltingHeart this is from The Master where he plays Freddie Quell, excellent movie

 

[epic]

Just to clarify, for myself, as well as others, you are hypothesizing that the number of attempts per (successful) suicide is higher with men than with women?

Was that for me?

 

[WilliamKline]

Was that for me?

No sorry was referring to OP

 

[Berlin76]

sort of on the topic of asssisted suicide and euthanasia

 

[WilliamKline]

sort of on the topic of asssisted suicide and euthanasia

Yes! I love Louis

 

[Not_Quite_Dead_Yet]

me too. what a load of unsubstantiated hogwash. citations needed. otherwise, this is simply self-serving sexist drivel.

Yay! Well said.

 

[LegaliseIt!]

I also respectively disagree with that statement. But that's what makes civilized debate interesting.

Apologies to all who posted in this part of the thread. I let my illness get ahead of me. @MeltingHeart @fightingsioux , you're both very civilized people, and thank you for reining me in.

 

[MeltingHeart]

Apologies to all who posted in this part of the thread. I let my illness get ahead of me. @MeltingHeart @fightingsioux , you're both very civilized people, and thank you for reining me in.

Hey, what u apologising for....dont think u said anything bad or offensive at all...

 

[BlueWidow]

I believe more women attempt, but I think more men die by suicide because they're more likely to choose methods like using a gun or hanging, while women tend to use less "violent" methods like pills or slitting of the wrists - which are often less successful.

Yes, I've always heard exactly what you said. Women attempt suicide more, but men are usually more successful because they use methods that are much more certain to be lethal. Perhaps, men also act more impulsively which can help counteract SI?

 

[C_F]

Yes, I've always heard exactly what you said. Women attempt suicide more, but men are usually more successful because they use methods that are much more certain to be lethal. Perhaps, men also act more impulsively which can help counteract SI?

Could be... but mostly I wanted to reply letting you know I'm your 1,000th like. You're welcome and congratulations

 

[BlueWidow]

Could be... but mostly I wanted to reply letting you know I'm your 1,000th like. You're welcome and congratulations

Does that come with a cake or a check or a medal or anything, I wonder?

 

[c824767]

The typical trope is the suicidal mad woman: http://blog.blo.org/the-romantic-trope-of-madwoman. The average male likes to see themselves as eternal optimists so they are less inclined to be open about their depressive phases. The more suicidal a woman gets, the more attractive she becomes to alpha males because they see her as a challenge: how long can I keep her alive by being lovingly attentive to her. It is super codependent and disgusting but this is how male brains evolve into adulthood. Male's suicides typically are preceded by a multitude of failures in business and in love, (farmer suicide..) or legal problems, often when their corrupt abusive illegal shinnanigans become obvious. (Epstein) These are all stereotypes but maybe there is truth in this. Women are suicidal because there is really no dignified space for us on this planet. We are superfluous. Men are running everything and have all the wealth. Women are ridiculous (like Florence Foster Jenkins) and do not measure up. The tendency to live with a female robot or buy a fake vagina on Amazon (Jeff Bezos is the wealthiest man on earth) http://jamaica-star.com/article/new...lling-hot-bread-sex-toys-come-handy-loyal-men. There are 500 rapes every day, violence against women has never abated, appreciation for pregnancy, child birth, child rearing, availability for sexual partnership is PATHETIC. Women live in existences where we obtain Pink Collar Jobs where we NEVER get promoted. (A pink-collar worker refers to someone working in the care-oriented career field or in jobs historically considered to be women's work. This may include jobs in the beauty industry, nursing, teaching, secretarial work, or child care.) We are F U C K E D, this planet is NOT made for us. Biology is totally against us and society doubles down on us. Our hormones that constantly change flood our brains in a way that we rarely have joyful sex lives, but we are CONSTANTLY badgered by oversexed males to put out. (aside from the rapes) https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...nt-i-male-intercourse-explained-a7562296.html. Women are the ones who feel they need to use fair means or foul to get beyond their "Pink Collar" jobs and enter into a lifestyle based on survival sex (and fake orgasms) to pay off the mortgage, put a roof over their heads, feed their kids as single moms. What is there to like about women on this earth, and about being a woman on this earth? We are all pathetic/ Victorian women were right. Become the mad woman and be a fake erotomaniac (survival sex). You will be irresistible to those alpha males who will look after you for the rest of your life...(or kill yourself because who wants to survive that way?)

 

[Not_Quite_Dead_Yet]

sort of on the topic of asssisted suicide and euthanasia

Thank you for posting this,

 

[MeltingHeart]

The typical trope is the suicidal mad woman: http://blog.blo.org/the-romantic-trope-of-madwoman. The average male likes to see themselves as eternal optimists so they are less inclined to be open about their depressive phases. The more suicidal a woman gets, the more attractive she becomes to alpha males because they see her as a challenge: how long can I keep her alive by being lovingly attentive to her. It is super codependent and disgusting but this is how male brains evolve into adulthood. Male's suicides typically are preceded by a multitude of failures in business and in love, (farmer suicide..) or legal problems, often when their corrupt abusive illegal shinnanigans become obvious. (Epstein) These are all stereotypes but maybe there is truth in this. Women are suicidal because there is really no dignified space for us on this planet. We are superfluous. Men are running everything and have all the wealth. Women are ridiculous (like Florence Foster Jenkins) and do not measure up. The tendency to live with a female robot or buy a fake vagina on Amazon (Jeff Bezos is the wealthiest man on earth) http://jamaica-star.com/article/new...lling-hot-bread-sex-toys-come-handy-loyal-men. There are 500 rapes every day, violence against women has never abated, appreciation for pregnancy, child birth, child rearing, availability for sexual partnership is PATHETIC. Women live in existences where we obtain Pink Collar Jobs where we NEVER get promoted. (A pink-collar worker refers to someone working in the care-oriented career field or in jobs historically considered to be women's work. This may include jobs in the beauty industry, nursing, teaching, secretarial work, or child care.) We are F U C K E D, this planet is NOT made for us. Biology is totally against us and society doubles down on us. Our hormones that constantly change flood our brains in a way that we rarely have joyful sex lives, but we are CONSTANTLY badgered by oversexed males to put out. (aside from the rapes) https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...nt-i-male-intercourse-explained-a7562296.html. Women are the ones who feel they need to use fair means or foul to get beyond their "Pink Collar" jobs and enter into a lifestyle based on survival sex (and fake orgasms) to pay off the mortgage, put a roof over their heads, feed their kids as single moms. What is there to like about women on this earth, and about being a woman on this earth? We are all pathetic/ Victorian women were right. Become the mad woman and be a fake erotomaniac (survival sex). You will be irresistible to those alpha males who will look after you for the rest of your life...(or kill yourself because who wants to survive that way?)

Rarely have joyful sex lives?! And badgered by their men? Not the women I know! Sex is a source of fun & pleasure - endorphins for free! & if anything the complaint is that there fella isn't up for it enough. - this is just my life experience and people I know.

 

[LegaliseIt!]

Thank you for posting this,

I had to stop watching at 23:02(ish) "Nobody Cares if old people die, except their family "

I am old.
My behaviour has alienated my family.
I choose to die.
I choose to die alone.
I choose to die soon.
Archaic laws criminalize this.
Archaic laws are wrong.
Archaic laws will change.
If you don't believe this, spend 24 hours with me!

 

[notjustyetagain]

Does [one's 1000th like] come with a cake or a check or a medal or anything, I wonder?

depends. for women, a 25gm of SN in a swarovski crystal vial. for men, a silver bullet. edit: the rest of us get both. :)

 

[sueoffside]

I think this whole argument is very interesting and I wanna thank you all for your different inputs (made for good stoned reading Lmao)

 

[MeltingHeart]

Nice to see a heated debate with wildly different view points that didnt descend into personal attacks, vitriol and the like...hear hear...everyone!

 

[LegaliseIt!]

Nice to see a heated debate with wildly different view points that didnt descend into personal attacks, vitriol and the like...hear hear...everyone!

@MeltingHeart, you helped me to stay civilized early on. Thank you!

 

[verminoid]

Women are less likely to engineer false alarms, the old "cry-for-help" thing. Men do that more often because many still feel that to really commit suicide is unmanly, they should just tough-it-out and endure. Women, on the other hand, are deeper thinkers, more in touch with themselves, and better planners: when they do it they do it!

Any thoughts on this?

a 2011 study in medsci monitor states that women typically opt for exsanguination and prescription pill overdoses over more certain methods. idk why we'd be characterized as sensible suicide committers (idk on the phrasing here lmao) when our most commonly used method only has a 6% success rate.

that being said, i think the reason women often choose the "least gross" methods when committing is bc we're socialized to take up the least space possible and be the most accommodating to everyone's needs. the body of someone who died via drug overdose is far easier to clean up than the body of someone who shot their jaw off.

 

[BlueWidow]

I think the psychiatric community inflates and over emphasizes so called "cry for help" attempts. I think they want to believe that most people don't really want to die, but are just trying to get noticed or something. They can't and/or won't believe that people may actually want to die.

Many attempts that are serious are probably mislabeled.

Of course, I'm not saying that "cry for help" attempts never happen.

 

[Death.]

The suicide rate for men is often at times as much as four times higher than that for women (depending on the analysed country). It's not even debatable which gender is mostly affected by suicide, so much so that it is almost exclusively a problem only experienced by men.

Unfortunately it is almost impossible to survive without money in this materialistic world (food, housing, health care etc obviously require money). A nominal amount of money is tantamount to the enablement of life in this respect. Women are far more likely to not resort to suicide as their financial security (and survival) is more likely to be provided by one or various men in her life. The basic necessities which money buys may be provided to her by a man who seeks to proclaim and demonstrate the "love" he has for her. The vast majority of women today are NOT willing and do NOT need to provide financial security and the comfort it provides for a man as as her dependent. Societal norms and expectations clearly influence these dynamics somewhat and may change in the long run however the reality we face today cannot be denied or escaped.

Fortunately substantial strides are made to promote equality among the genders and an increasing number of women are becoming independent by pursuing higher education mainly through college. I commend this.

Fundementally, if a man cannot financial provide for himself (due to disability, unforseen circumstances etc) he his doomed and destined to suffer. Women do not face such a fate as they can opt to depend on a willing martial partner OR opt to becoming independent through the pursuit of education and the career it enables.

 

[MaybeMaybeKnot]

When we covered suicide in clinical training, we were taught that men tend to CTB successfully because they tend to use more violent means. Women tend to be more concerned with comfort and appearance post mortem, resulting in techniques being used that have a higher rate of failure. I'm not stating my opinion, just what we were told, right or wrong.