Venting Ctb because of loneliness or breakups

[GoodPersonEffed]

It's not about being wrong or right. And respectfully, why is my response referred to as bait?

Respectfully in return, because changing the focus in such a way is a lure. Baiting away.

Is it wrong to wish people could find strength to live instead of ctb?

It's a diversionary lure away from criticism with appeal to emotion and polarized values. An extreme example is the parent who is criticized and says, "Are you saying I'm a bad parent?" It demands to either fight with the bait instead of the real fish, or shut the whole thing down.

This is a similar all-or-none, door-shutting appeal:

"Should all goodbye threads be like Shawn's ? Emotionless good lucks?"

Does this make sense? It lures away from the topic, sets up a new one, and polarizes with all-or-none. It sets up an unwinnable fight. So I step away from that kind of fight and from the diversion, and I return to the topic.

Threads are created to ask opinions.. to agree or disagree, to debate, to advise, not to be right or wrong, but unfortunately many argue to those notions.

This thread was created to state the OP's position and make an appeal.

In love with myself, no. In love with living life, yes. I was, not now. I mostly appreciate your feedback and view it as constructive up until making accusations and analyzing someone's personal feelings which can be uncalled for and presumptuous. I'm not versed but is that a form of other defining? Are you trying to define who I am for others? That is not who I am in any way. And I know I fell for the bait, couldn't help myself.

I had no intetion to bait you, and I'm glad you responded and brought some things to light for me. I used a rhetorical device to appeal and convince, including answering my own questions, and it failed. It's not the first time I've used it and that it's had effects I didn't want, but I've never had it pointed out or questioned, so I didn't quite get how it was working against my goals. Thank you for the constructive feedback. I can see that tends toward ad hominem attack, which includes other-defining, and I don't want to do that. A better way to have presented it would have been:

What I perceive is that you each loved being your own self and loved your own life, and do not want those things to die to die. There is no negative judgment from me on that. I like myself, too, and I've worked for it. But what I read in your responses to those who wish to die for relationship reasons is that you yourself are reflected onto those who are still living. However they are not your self, or your personal and particular lost potential. Basically, it's an idea of enmeshment.



In comment 26 where you quoted and responded to me, you first said there to @Elbarado ways in which you agreed, and so my response addressed both of you, as I had been engaging with both of you about exactly the same topics, and your responses that I addressed were complementary as well asa your stances.

However, this following quote is external to that; I was not involved with that exchange. It feels like you're using it to defend yourself, but again, it's a diversion from the topics you and I have been engaging in.

I made a polite suggestion to @Elbarado on being careful to not tread to close to the prolife stance. I also noted that there are people who hate life and nothing can change it and ctb is their only option.

I'm going to sum myself up, and I'll let you have the last word, no matter what.

What I read from both of your comments in this thread, beginning with your very first comments, was this:

"OP, I hear you and I agree. Now here's all the ways I don't hear you and I disagree."

In that I sense that you want a win. You each come from a place of goodness as you perceive it, and I do not judge it as good or bad; and you each appear by your defenses against my assertions that you want to believe that you are acting in goodness.

However, the original post laid out how some well-meaning posters were not demonstrating acceptance and equality, but something else, and that it doesn't feel good to the OP. Yet how you and @Elbarado comment in such situations feels good to you. And you act from motivations of ostensible goodness.

How does one resolvle that?

Here are options I can see:

1. Start doing what the other person asked and stop doing what is the opposite. Result: Other person receives what they seek and experiences well-being. You gain awareness of another and having contributed to their well-being. Reciprocity occurs, which enhances the well-being of all who interconnect, both one-on-one, and among those in the community who read such interactions.

2. Agree that you hear and agree with the other person, justify that your own actions and goals are in alignment, and proceed as before. Result: Other person hears words but receives different actions, remains dissatisfied with new dissatisfaction added, while your sense of well-being is undiminished if not increased for having gotten to maintain what feels good to you and feeling like you gave a gift of agreement and acknowledgment.

3. Disagree with the other person's perceptions, wants and goals. Result: Actions and words are aligned, person knows what to expect, experiences the safety of predictiability, does not lose support that wasn't there nor hope for support that won't occur, and you continue on with the same beliefs and actions and feel as good as you did before, and have ehanced self-respect for having been truthful and for having held to your values and need.

4. Stop engaging with posts about wanting to ctb for relationship issues. Result: other person's well-being is not diminished and is in fact enhanced because someone held back from negating them, and you have enhanced self-resepect for not acting against your values and needs to please or help another with whom you disagree.

 

[Living sucks]

Or

5. Acknowledge OPs appeal that you hear their appeal. And then offer your debate, argument, appeal, response, argument, support, (you choose word) and offer comparison text to exchange with OP and other responses to support or disagree with appeals. As long as it's respectful and not pushing a prolife agenda on the other. (And there are variations of the level of prolife)
Examples are dibbydoo and morticias hair. Clear obvious prolife agenda. I have a unique and less popular view on life and reasons to ctb. I own it without pushing it.
Expressing ones own desire to live and sharing experiences is not always pushing others to change, diminish, or reject their stance.
It was never to negate OP or his feelings.. I felt I needed to reply here because i had made comments on other threads that would fit his narrative and wanted to clarify my position.

tbh I have no heart left, it's been ripped from my chest, stomped on, shredded in a garbage disposal and lit on fire. It's why my replies tend to stay in the info only lane.

 

[Final Escape]

I keep reading posts from well-meaning people who say things like "you shouldn't ctb because you lost your significant other" or "there's a possibility that you won't always be lonely so you shouldn't ctb." And like... I get that these comments come from a good place. I'm not even mad at folks who say stuff like that. It's just... to me, it feels a little condescending to read those comments. For me, I've suffered through drug addictions, hospitalizations, abusive relationships with family, being ostracized in my community because of what I look like or who I'm friends with, and I gotta say that losing my last ex was the absolute last straw in my decision to ctb. Maybe it's that way for some of these other folks too. Maybe it isn't.

I guess what I'm saying is this: nobody should feel like their reason for ctb isn't good enough or that something better will come along that will change their minds.

Thanks for coming to my TedTalk.

You're funny lol! Agree.

 

[JCAPPY34]

Thank you. My parent left me aburptly last year. We were together for sixteen years, and then only day stopped calling. He ghosted me for two weeks before he admitted he met someone else. I gave up so much for him and all I got was an angry phone call. I will never get over it.

Ghosting has to be one of the cruelest methods of exiting a relationship when out together with the reasons for ending the relationship, they hurt enough on their own. From bitter experience!

 

[CarbonMonoxide]

So your reason to ctb is valid. Just yours. Just incurable physical illness.

The rest of the comment is like a pro-life script. I got a contact high from it.

I got the exact same vibe. It's like this user feels as though they own the right to ctb by virtue of their superior suffering. All the rest of us without incurable illnesses are not fighters, we're a bunch of weasels who are too chicken to 'fight'. We weren't born fighters, we were born what?! Victims? Wwe subscribers?

Nobody exclusively owns the right to commit suicide. Hell, I could kill myself to stop existing in the same universe as sponge Bob and it would be justified. It's what pro-choice means, giving people the freedom and right to do with they lives as they see fit. Loneliness, unrequited love or loss of love are as valid reasons as any.

 

[Marine]

To provide an alternate perspective, I have a hard time wrapping my head around wanting to CTB for any reason other than loneliness. Or at least without loneliness being a major factor.

Personally I find I can cope with just about anything as long as I don't feel like I have to face it alone. The trouble is these days I face everything alone. I have no family left, I only have a few friends that I'm mostly not very close with, I've never dated, and it's painfully clear at this point that women simply don't find me attractive and never will. The loneliness is killing me, and there's no escape, because if there was anyone who could help me with this, I wouldn't feel lonely in the first place. I've been so lonely for so long virtually no one can understand what I'm going through, which just isolates me more.

You gotta understand there's a difference between breathing and living. If you knew you had nothing to look forward to for the next forty years but living alone and mindlessly playing video games to numb the pain, would you really want to keep going? Spending every day alone with no one to support you in your pain or celebrate your triumphs with you isn't living. It's just existing.

That's not to judge or invalidate people who do have other reasons for wanting to die, mind you. It's not something I can understand from my perspective, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

Lovelessness is in my opinion more cruel, inhuman and miserable than any physical disease. Those who endure its agony see it as the greatest suffering and its victims never chose it, they desperately wish for their vital need (it's time we all recognize that we have both vital physical AND psychological needs) to be met so they could live just like any other terminal patient. It's not a choice, it's not immaturity, it's a torture forced upon them hollowing out their hearts that no one should have to endure. It's obviously best if people can be freed of it through life, but unfortunately not everyone is that lucky and we eventually run into our human limits, just like with dehydration. It's the saddest, most cruel thing and I wish it could be prevented for everyone on earth from now on.

 

[SNOB]

Heartbreak true heart wrenching yearning for your SO is worrse than any physical pain immaginamble. In fact yes it is also a pain in your guts and heart n that's sense so yes physical.

I've gone thru several. This will be the last . I refuse to drag myself thru another