Converting benzodiazepine tolerance to pentobarbital tolerance

[Arak]

Any ideas ?

httpx://fpnotebook.com/psych/CD/BnzdzpnEqvlnts.htm

For example, IV barbiturate equivalents.

pentobarbital valium=dosex0.1 which means ?? 100 mg pentobarbital equals 10 mg diazepam ??

I'm not sure what to make of that. Does anyone have any sources, clues, anything that can correlate a certain tolerance to benzodiazepines to a certain level of tolerance to pentobarbital ? Even experiences.

 

[voool]

Dont worry about it. Although related they work differently.

 

[Tokyojoe]

Dont worry about it. Although related they work differently.

They do work differently but they act on the same Gaba receptors and there is definitely cross tolerance. It's been talked about in the PPeH. i am also benzo tolerant and from what I read, N will still work but it would take longer.

 

[Schopenhauer]

@Tokyojoe: are you sure? I've checked the PPH, and there's no mention of cross-tolerance between N and benzos. I'm using the may 2018 edition.

I did find this 1994 paper, with a study on the interactions between benzos and barbiturates in rats:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00169294

Allow me to highlight some of the findings:

Rats pretreated with Diazepam (D) developed tolerance to D, but no to Secobarbital (S). It even sensitized the subjects to some of motor coordination effects of S. The authors conclude:

The results support the hypothesis that in spite of a partially common mechanism of acute action, chronic adaptation at the GABAA-receptor is differently mediated by barbiturates and benzodiazepines according to regionally and functionally distinct patterns.

I have a personal interest in this subject, since I intend do use a low dose of midazolam before ingesting the N, to take the edge off.

 

[Tokyojoe]

@Tokyojoe: are you sure? I've checked the PPH, and there's no mention of cross-tolerance between N and benzos. I'm using the may 2018 edition.

I did find this 1994 paper, with a study on the interactions between benzos and barbiturates in rats:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00169294

Allow me to highlight some of the findings:

Rats pretreated with Diazepam (D) developed tolerance to D, but no to Secobarbital (S). It even sensitized the subjects to some of motor coordination effects of S. The authors conclude:

The results support the hypothesis that in spite of a partially common mechanism of acute action, chronic adaptation at the GABAA-receptor is differently mediated by barbiturates and benzodiazepines according to regionally and functionally distinct patterns.

I have a personal interest in this subject, since I intend do use a low dose of midazolam before ingesting the N, to take the edge off.

Thanks for pointing that out. I really can't remember which version of the PPeH I got that from but since I am benzo dependent I distinctly remember it suggesting that use of benzos and anti-psychotics should be stopped preferably one month before taking the N.

 

[Schopenhauer]

Thanks for pointing that out. I really can't remember which version of the PPeH I got that from but since I am benzo dependent I distinctly remember it suggesting that use of benzos and anti-psychotics should be stopped preferably one month before taking the N.

Chapter 19 of the PPH explicitly mentions prolonged use of antipsychotics and chronic alcohol use as increasing the degradation of N. No mention of benzos, though. I still have to do a more thorough literature search, but I think moderate benzo use should be fine.

 

[Arak]

They do work differently but they act on the same Gaba receptors and there is definitely cross tolerance. It's been talked about in the PPeH. i am also benzo tolerant and from what I read, N will still work but it would take longer.

Would take longer ? Can you be more specific/how did you learn this ?

@Schopenhauer , check my post history for the relevant post(s). Cross tolerance with benzodiazepines and alcohol.

I'd be concerned about strong cross tolerance. Obviously, not all benzodiazepines are the same. I'd expect more serious cross tolerance with the high potency benzodiazepine lorazepam, clonazepam, alprazolam.