Can it be trained?

[sulvumnolo]

I get this is probably a bad topic for this forum. So take it down if necessary. However in my defense I am not asking how. Simply if it's psychologically possible.

Can survival instinct be trained away? For those of us who are absolutely certain but remain frozen by our biology.
I get it's a part of the brain, the amygdala, that can and has fully control over your actions when it sees a threat. So I guess the path forward would be to numb, as most try to with drugs. Or, perhaps repetition and practice of the act itself might calm that initial fear? Or if nothing else do you just gotta be really forceful and brave for a minute?

 

[nummie]

curious about this. I dont think its repetition, ive had attempts before and practised before attempts but ive could never overcome SI. I guess its like you said, taking things to numb it like alcohol or drugs

 

[jengablocks]

i agree with nummie !! the fear feels so deeply ingrained that u have to do something that directly alters the functioning of those centers of your brain somehow .. i know anxiety medication and SSRIs do that for me even on prescription doses , liek i lose my intuitive comprehension of risks & danger a bit.

 

[RiftbornVeil]

As morbid/grotesque as it sounds, I've been desensitized to death. My SI, over time, has gradually reduced as I normalize the concept of my own death more and more after witnessing others. My apprehension towards death was removed by this repetitive ordeal of observing it; however, I never really had a strict fear of death to begin with. I have attempted once and didn't feel SI, but my method was ineffective and perhaps that's what prevented any SI from building up (though the attempt itself was serious).

If I were to CTB by jumping, I don't think I would hesitate to. My concern with this method, though, is it's somewhat ineffective nature. I think it all comes down to the moment one CTBs, and possibly if they have grown used to the idea of their own death.

 

[hurb]

monks spend months without food and just drinking water ttill they die. unless u r struggling with Eating disorder, stopping to eat is almost impossible. and if monks can do that and train their body not to eat ,maybe its possible to lose ur SI. i noticed many people keep watching CTB videos and slowly their body starts to view it as a norm..

 

[_wishforwings]

curious about this. I dont think its repetition, ive had attempts before and practised before attempts but ive could never overcome SI. I guess its like you said, taking things to numb it like alcohol or drugs

Sometimes I almost wonder if practicing attempts multiple times over and over can actually make SI worse, not to say you shouldn't know what you're doing of course

 

[sulvumnolo]

Sometimes I almost wonder if practicing attempts multiple times over and over can actually make SI worse, not to say you shouldn't know what you're doing of course

That's actually super interesting never thought of it like that. It's completely possible. Certainly when I was younger I made it a lot farther in my attempts

 

[eggsausagerice]

If I were to CTB by jumping, I don't think I would hesitate to. My concern with this method, though, is it's somewhat ineffective nature. I think it all comes down to the moment one CTBs, and possibly if they have grown used to the idea of their own death.

even if your si is lowered before the suicide i think people can still be afraid in the moment it happens, when you feel yourself dying or are close to it. you can never really know until the last moment imo. i agree with nummie and think that alcohol/drugs like benzos or thc can lower si more then someone's willpower.

 

[RiftbornVeil]

even if your si is lowered before the suicide i think people can still be afraid in the moment it happens, when you feel yourself dying or are close to it. you can never really know until the last moment imo. i agree with nummie and think that alcohol/drugs like benzos or thc can lower si more then someone's willpower.

You're right, I won't know now until the last moment, it's a variable even the best planning can't really account for. That's a frightening thought.

 

[CosmicError]

SI cant be overcome you just have to make it so that your method makes it powerless and useless

 

[Justachillguy]

I'd like to think it is. In my country's military (United States), the whole reason they yell at you is to make you accustomed to stress. The more combat oriented the branch is (I.E. US Army or Marine Corps), the more stressful the training is. While that might not completely override your survival instinct, it has to override it in some capacity to allow people to transform from civilians who only knew a peaceful life to a trained warfighter ready to run into a fire fight, knowing that it could result in their death. And while that doesn't speak for every service member in every branch, it does speak for some.

 

[nummie]

Sometimes I almost wonder if practicing attempts multiple times over and over can actually make SI worse, not to say you shouldn't know what you're doing of course

Haha i definitely agree with this theory. Instead of numbing SI, youre probably training it through practice

 

[grizzlycamel]

no real qualifications in what I'm gonna say but let me start with this little bit. There's this thing called blind sight, depending on how a person is blinded they'd have something like it too possibly. It's when a person who's sight part of their brain is damaged so they themselves can't see anything but they can still detect and localize and react to things they'd "see" if they could see it. In other words you could say there's another hidden pathway for important things for survival.

If you ingest something bad, you can't control your organs to not throw it up, you'd just be fighting with yourself. The only thing you could really train is your brain. I've seen some people talk about how they've tried to desensitize themselves which i think is pretty possible. But I don't think repeated suicide attempts does much than lessen your conscious fear. Because I think your body would be getting positive reinforcement from you either failing or saving yourself from death. Perhaps I can see an argument where you lessen your response and the time it takes for your SI to kick in but no matter how many times you rehearse it or lessen your fear. There will always be that secret pathway that comes up and tries to stop you before it's too late. Your body has a 6th sense about things (at least for me) it feels when something isn't right, when it might die. Perhaps if you were under a heavy influence you might be able to muddy the water which is why I think a lot of people do something for that when they attempt to help themselves not think about things much. But even then I've felt myself "sober up" when something actually bad happens. But idk that's just my theory and thoughts

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Yes I think it can

But it's very difficult a lot of work every day

And you have to figure out how the brain works and how to reprogram it. If u don't work the correct techniques in the correct way then it won't work

 

[burninghill]

Sometimes I almost wonder if practicing attempts multiple times over and over can actually make SI worse, not to say you shouldn't know what you're doing of course

I found that when I was attempting multipe times very frequently that the adrenaline sort of wore off. I started to have more doubts and each time I attempted I'd come up with a new thing to be anxious about, so I personally would support the idea that continued attempts can worsen SI. I had to stop trying for a bit because I'd be a little less successful every attempt and I needed to give myself a break.

The only thing that I found lessened my SI was consuming images of people who had successfully carried out the method I was going to use. I'd look at that stuff every single night for the month leading up to my attempt. It didn't work entirely, obviously, but I was pretty damn close and I felt the difference psychologically.

 

[nummie]

I found that when I was attempting multipe times very frequently that the adrenaline sort of wore off. I started to have more doubts and each time I attempted I'd come up with a new thing to be anxious about, so I personally would support the idea that continued attempts can worsen SI. I had to stop trying for a bit because I'd be a little less successful every attempt and I needed to give myself a break.

The only thing that I found lessened my SI was consuming images of people who had successfully carried out the method I was going to use. I'd look at that stuff every single night for the month leading up to my attempt. It didn't work entirely, obviously, but I was pretty damn close and I felt the difference psychologically.

This is completely irrelevant,,,,, but you have 67 MESSAGE

 

[yotaka]

monks spend months without food and just drinking water ttill they die. unless u r struggling with Eating disorder, stopping to eat is almost impossible. and if monks can do that and train their body not to eat ,maybe its possible to lose ur SI. i noticed many people keep watching CTB videos and slowly their body starts to view it as a norm..

I'd like to think it is. In my country's military (United States), the whole reason they yell at you is to make you accustomed to stress. The more combat oriented the branch is (I.E. US Army or Marine Corps), the more stressful the training is. While that might not completely override your survival instinct, it has to override it in some capacity to allow people to transform from civilians who only knew a peaceful life to a trained warfighter ready to run into a fire fight, knowing that it could result in their death. And while that doesn't speak for every service member in every branch, it does speak for some.

I don't have direct experience, just what I've read, so take it for what it's worth, but I think hurb and Justachillguy are on to the actual effective methods.

Certain monks spend their entire lives training their minds to accept death, and apparently it can be effective. I'm sure we've all at least heard of the monk who self immolated to protest persection of Buddhists in Vietnam.

I can't speak to the effectivenes of military training methods specifically in reducing self-preservation instincts. However, a quick search informed me that the rate of suicide among US veterans is more than double the rate for the civilian population, so there may be something to it.