[Article] One’s survival instinct is not indicative nor evidence of wanting to live!

[TAW122]

This may go without saying and perhaps even preaching to the choir for many of us pro-choicers on here, SaSu, but this article details what the survival instinct is and how it is NOT indicative nor evidence of one wishing to live. First off, briefly what is the survival instinct (aka self-preservation instinct)?

I define the survival instinct as an involuntary biological instinct that is built-in all living organisms from inception and throughout the evolution of the organisms over time which serves to keep a living organism from dying, preserving sentience and avoiding danger or pain. Just because one's survival instinct kicks in (during an attempt), it doesn't mean that the person has changed their mind necessarily.

See the sentence in the MAID criterion regarding final consent and involuntary movements as it states:

"Reflexes and other of types involuntary movements, such as a response to a touch or to the insertion of a needle, do not constitute refusal or resistance ".

For example, someone who has just jumped from a tall structure or a great height (a cliff for instance), it doesn't mean that they wanted to live necessarily during the fall, it is their biological mechanism that is involuntarily reacting and causing the person to be scared and doing whatever it can (regardless of whether it is effective or not) to preserve the body from harm. When asked about whether the person regrets mid-attempt or even after failure, it's obvious that they are going to say "yes" and it is not necessarily an admission of regret of the attempt, but rather the consequences of the attempt (being incarcerated in a psych ward after failing and surviving), being a vegetable (permanently) or severely disabled and/or incapacitated, among other consequences. It's almost like asking a suspect if they are looking to commit crimes or break the law, it's obvious that people under duress and with the threat (and fear) of actual consequences from honesty, WILL LIE to avoid (further) consequences!

Therefore, to use the survival instinct as evidence or indication of the fact that one wishes to live or changed their mind is at best disingenuous and inaccurate. People who have carefully deliberated their predicament and rationally arrived at a conclusion such that they no longer wish to die have already made their decision and just because a part of their physical biological component resists should not and is not an indicator of resisting consent nor an withdrawal of consent (especially according to the definition and criterion taken from the MAID program in Canada).

 

[FuneralCry]

That is very true as it's an instinct after all, it's separate from logical thought, one can be aware that suicide is what they truly wish for yet struggle to die as they are programmed to survive. If someone believes that the SI kicking in means automatically that the person doesn't want to die then they are very ignorant.

 

[Anonymus]

Sometimes we forget that the suicidal instinct also exists and is just as powerful as the survival instinct.
I say this because the members of this website defend rationalized suicide, that is, what you can choose freely after a deep reflection on the state of your life.

Obviously mental health systems are focused only on avoiding suicidal impulses (suicidal instincts) and make no distinction between what a person cannot avoid and what a person really wants after a long time.

Often, in a desperate person, at a given moment they mix rationalized suicide with the suicidal impulse (the instinct).. sometimes the only way to carry out your intentions is to wait for a day when the 'suicidal instinct unbalances the balance in the sense of being able to successfully carry out the act itself, which otherwise you would not dare to do.

There are people who have no problems facing their own suicide in a rational way, I guess it happens because both their mind and their body are in tune (they want the same thing) and then the suicidal impulse is not necessary.

So I agree, neither the Survival Instinct nor the Suicidal Instinct have anything to do with reason, which allows us to reflect on our personal situation and make the corresponding decisions.

//

De vegades ens oblidem que l'instint del suïcidi també existeix i que és igual de potent que el de supervivéncia.
Ho dic perqué els integrants d'aquesta web defenem el suïcidi racionalitzat, és a dir, el que pots escollir lliurement després d'una reflexió profunda sobre l'estat de la teva vida.

Evidentment els sistemes de salut mental están centrats només en evitar els impulsos suïcides (els instints suïcides) i no fan cap distinció entre el que no pot evitar una persona i el que realment desitja una persona després de força temps.

Sovint, en una persona desesperada, en un moment donat es barregen el suïcidi racionalitzat amb l'impuls suïcida (l'instint).. de vegades l'única manera de portar a terme els teus propósits és esperar que arribi un día en que l'instint suïcida desequilibri la balança en el sentit de poder portar a bon terme l'acte en si, que d'una altre manera no t'atreviries pas a fer.

Hi ha persones que no tenen problemes en afrontar el seu propi suïcidi de manera racional, suposo que passa perqué tant la seva ment com el seu cos estàn en sintonía (volen el mateix) i llavors l'impuls suïcida no és pas necessari.

Així que hi estic d'acord, ni l'Instint de Supervivència ni l'Instint suïcida tenen rés a veure amb la raó, la qual ens permet reflexionar sobre la nostra situació personal i prendre les corresponents decisions.

 

[I Can't Say]

Thank you. There are several people on here who like to dismiss the sincerity of others' intent due to SI, and I hope they read this. It's just not that easy for everyone.

 

[MeltingBrain]

True
Also to add, reflexes where action is immediately required come from the spinal cord and NOT the brain . In these cases conscious thinking is skipped . eg. When a hand is put on a hot stove , we quickly pull it off , it's because the stimulus is registered by the spinal cord and the decision to pull off also comes from the spinal cord . There is no conscious thinking . The urge to grab onto something while falling must be coming from here too .

Physiology, Withdrawal Response - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The withdrawal response (reflex), also known as the nociceptive flexion reflex, is an automatic response of the spinal cord that is critical in protecting the body from harmful stimuli.

The withdrawal reflex protects humans against tissue necrosis from contact with noxious stimuli such as pain or heat and is evolutionary important in avoiding significant dangers.

it's obvious that they are going to say "yes" and it is not necessarily an admission of regret of the attempt, but rather the consequences of the attempt (being incarcerated in a psych ward after failing and surviving), being a vegetable (permanently) or severely disabled and/or incapacitated, among other consequences.

You make a good point , the trauma of the process must be making a contribution to the regret and not only a pure change in circumstances/perspective .

 

[TAW122]

That is very true as it's an instinct after all, it's separate from logical thought, one can be aware that suicide is what they truly wish for yet struggle to die as they are programmed to survive. If someone believes that the SI kicking in means automatically that the person doesn't want to die then they are very ignorant.

Well said, and yes MOST pro-lifers are indeed "ignorant" and worst yet, they even refuse to acknowledge the truth or see the other perspective and are stuck in their delusional mindset of "life is good/sacred" or some unfalsifiable claim.

Sometimes we forget that the suicidal instinct also exists and is just as powerful as the survival instinct.
I say this because the members of this website defend rationalized suicide, that is, what you can choose freely after a deep reflection on the state of your life.

Obviously mental health systems are focused only on avoiding suicidal impulses (suicidal instincts) and make no distinction between what a person cannot avoid and what a person really wants after a long time.

Often, in a desperate person, at a given moment they mix rationalized suicide with the suicidal impulse (the instinct).. sometimes the only way to carry out your intentions is to wait for a day when the 'suicidal instinct unbalances the balance in the sense of being able to successfully carry out the act itself, which otherwise you would not dare to do.

There are people who have no problems facing their own suicide in a rational way, I guess it happens because both their mind and their body are in tune (they want the same thing) and then the suicidal impulse is not necessary.

So I agree, neither the Survival Instinct nor the Suicidal Instinct have anything to do with reason, which allows us to reflect on our personal situation and make the corresponding decisions.

//

De vegades ens oblidem que l'instint del suïcidi també existeix i que és igual de potent que el de supervivéncia.
Ho dic perqué els integrants d'aquesta web defenem el suïcidi racionalitzat, és a dir, el que pots escollir lliurement després d'una reflexió profunda sobre l'estat de la teva vida.

Evidentment els sistemes de salut mental están centrats només en evitar els impulsos suïcides (els instints suïcides) i no fan cap distinció entre el que no pot evitar una persona i el que realment desitja una persona després de força temps.

Sovint, en una persona desesperada, en un moment donat es barregen el suïcidi racionalitzat amb l'impuls suïcida (l'instint).. de vegades l'única manera de portar a terme els teus propósits és esperar que arribi un día en que l'instint suïcida desequilibri la balança en el sentit de poder portar a bon terme l'acte en si, que d'una altre manera no t'atreviries pas a fer.

Hi ha persones que no tenen problemes en afrontar el seu propi suïcidi de manera racional, suposo que passa perqué tant la seva ment com el seu cos estàn en sintonía (volen el mateix) i llavors l'impuls suïcida no és pas necessari.

Així que hi estic d'acord, ni l'Instint de Supervivència ni l'Instint suïcida tenen rés a veure amb la raó, la qual ens permet reflexionar sobre la nostra situació personal i prendre les corresponents decisions.

Yes, well said and true. It's sad that the current healthcare system and society often lumps all suicidality into the same boat when it is very clear there are different ones. You are right in the sense that society and normies only care about preventing the act, but not understanding why, the background, or root causes for one to consider CTB to begin with!

Thank you. There are several people on here who like to dismiss the sincerity of others' intent due to SI, and I hope they read this. It's just not that easy for everyone.

Thank you for your support on my threads and articles.

True
Also to add, reflexes where action is immediately required come from the spinal cord and NOT the brain . In these cases conscious thinking is skipped . eg. When a hand is put on a hot stove , we quickly pull it off , it's because the stimulus is registered by the spinal cord and the decision to pull off also comes from the spinal cord . There is no conscious thinking . The urge to grab onto something while falling must be coming from here too .

Physiology, Withdrawal Response - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You make a good point , the trauma of the process must be making a contribution to the regret and not only a pure change in circumstances/perspective .

Good examples and yes, our SI is not really an active conscious biological mechanism, but rather subconsious, involuntary response to danger and things that the organism perceives as "danger". It takes a lot of conditioning and training to overcome the SI (even temporarily and/or partially), which most normies and pro-lifers fail to grasp.