Are there.. good methods?

[Intoxicated]

I've read through that page many times, and honestly it just makes the situation even more gloomy lol.

That chart looks like it was made by a depressive schoolboy. It doesn't mention general methods with proven high efficiency like gas asphyxiation and H2S poisoning, it doesn't mention protocols for general methods (of course, CTB by drowning in a puddle in front of bystanders is as reliable as CTB by drowning being alone somewhere in an ocean, right? ))), and it doesn't provide a decently looking estimation of duration and intensity of discomfort (someone seriously believes that there is some agony with instant death by headshot, lol?)

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

There are discomfort-free methods. For example, gas asphyxiation (with noble gases, nitrogen, nitrous oxide, HFCs, etc) and carbon monoxide poisoning with high concentrations of CO produced using some of the lab methods (e.g., sodium formate + orthophosphoric acid). Drowning with prior gas asphyxiation (which renders unconsciousness) belongs to the category of potentially discomfort-free methods.

how would you execute sodium formate + orthophosphoric acid method ?

for example i would have a container A half filled with sodium formate and then pump orthophosphoric acid into it .
the output tube would be carbon monoxide ?
would the co output need to be washed with a water bath ?

 

[kvorumese]

The most difficult part is finding other substances recommended in popular SN protocols.

Is it really that hard though? I thought you'd just have to get your hands on a non-otc antiemetic and some sort of benzodiazepine - I know nothing about the latter, so feel free to educate me

 

[Intoxicated]

how would you execute sodium formate + orthophosphoric acid method ?

Similarly to sodium formate + sulfuric acid, except that heating is probably would be required for a decent reaction rate (for decomposition of HCOOH, heating to 80 C is recommended).

CO is formed in two stages:

HCOONa + H3PO4 = HCOOH + NaH2PO4
HCOOH = H2O + CO

Concentrated phosphoric acid works as a dehydrating agent here (similarly to H2SO4). The decomposition of HCOOH by phosphoric acid is described here (see page 645).

for example i would have a container A half filled with sodium formate and then pump orthophosphoric acid into it .
the output tube would be carbon monoxide ?

Yes, but you may need more effort than with sulfuric acid here, since the decomposition may go too slowly without heating. The reason why I mentioned H3PO4 instead of H2SO4 is because concentrated H2SO4 cannot be legally purchased in the OP's country, while concentrated H3PO4 can be purchased at an online marketplace.

would the co output need to be washed with a water bath ?

Probably yes, because HCOOH is produced as an intermediate product.

Is it really that hard though? I thought you'd just have to get your hands on a non-otc antiemetic and some sort of benzodiazepine

If you feel confident with that, go ahead.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Similarly to sodium formate + sulfuric acid, except that heating is probably would be required for a decent reaction rate (for decomposition of HCOOH, heating to 80 C is recommended).

CO is formed in two stages:

HCOONa + H3PO4 = HCOOH + NaH2PO4
HCOOH = H2O + CO

Concentrated phosphoric acid works as a dehydrating agent here (similarly to H2SO4). The decomposition of HCOOH by phosphoric acid is described here (see page 645).


Yes, but you may need more effort than with sulfuric acid here, since the decomposition may go too slowly without heating. The reason why I mentioned H3PO4 instead of H2SO4 is because concentrated H2SO4 cannot be legally purchased in the OP's country, while concentrated H3PO4 can be purchased at an online marketplace.

Probably yes, because HCOOH is produced as an intermediate product.


If you feel confident with that, go ahead.

thanks so i guess formic acid + sulfuric acid would not need heating ? would most of the formic acid decompose fast to carbon monoxide at room temperature ? it seemed to be that way in the GuLps video.

 

[kvorumese]

If you feel confident with that, go ahead

No I'm asking because I'm genuinely unaware

 

[NegevChina]

That chart looks like it was made by a depressive schoolboy. It doesn't mention general methods with proven high efficiency like gas asphyxiation and H2S poisoning, it doesn't mention protocols for general methods (of course, CTB by drowning in a puddle in front of bystanders is as reliable as CTB by drowning being alone somewhere in an ocean, right? ))), and it doesn't provide a decently looking estimation of duration and intensity of discomfort (someone seriously believes that there is some agony with instant death by headshot, lol?)

I agree, probably the reason is Its a study from 1995 and covers statistics from 1988 to 1991. "A much published study from 1995, where 291 lay persons and 10 forensic pathologists rated the lethality, time, and agony for 28 methods of suicide for 4,117 cases of completed suicide in Los Angeles County in the period 1988-1991."
It does mention CO though but may be back then you could easily obtain it from car exhaust if catalytic converters were not yet a standard.
Regarding gunshot to the head it does mention the duration to death is 2.5 minutes so might be agony involved in it.
Any way in our times we have the PPH and the Internet so we know of much more peaceful methods, not that it seems it is easier to die.

 

[zerocontrol]

Since you're from Russia, there's one method that was brought to my attention in the Russian Chat on this forum, which is getting phenobarbital out of Corvalol. It's as simple as evaporating the liquid inside till you're only left with the powder i.e. phenobarbital, which you can then use in combination with a plastic bag wrapped around your head. That's currently the method I'm looking into. The lethal dose is 2-10g, but the plastic bag is still a good insurance. Here's a thread that goes more into detail.
Do be careful though as the liquid inside is flammable. I already managed to accidentally start a fire on my stove because I was being a dumbass.

 

[Valhala]

There are bad and less bad methods. There are no good ones - death is neither easy nor simple.

But a possible vomiting from nitrite poisoning doesn't sound excruciating? ))

It's available on marketplaces. In Moscow, 100g of 98%+ NaNO2 can be purchased for 253 or 258 rubles right now and delivered by January 27. With delivery to other cities, the price and the delivery times may differ. The most difficult part is finding other substances recommended in popular SN protocols. Without those auxiliary medications, nitrite poisoning becomes worse in terms of reliability and discomfort than the reference SN methods, so even an experience of drowning may be better, assuming you don't use any sedatives for it as well.

The reliability of the SN method is not questionable even without any of the auxiliary drugs, the problem of discomfort remains, the auxiliary drugs serve only to reduce discomfort, pain and symptoms.

 

[Eudaimonic]

The reliability of the SN method is not questionable even without any of the auxiliary drugs, the problem of discomfort remains, the auxiliary drugs serve only to reduce discomfort, pain and symptoms.

Not so for prokinetic (d2 antagonist) anti-emetics (e.g., meto, domp) - increasing the speed of gastric emptying expedites rate of absorption not to mention that they reduce nausea and hence risk of vomiting. It's also possible--though not established--that cimetidine may help.

Come to think of it, I wonder how much optimization could be done with respect to increasing absorption.

 

[Intoxicated]

thanks so i guess formic acid + sulfuric acid would not need heating ? would most of the formic acid decompose fast to carbon monoxide at room temperature ? it seemed to be that way in the GuLps video.

From the videos I've seen, it looks like room temperature should suffice. I have never carried out this reaction myself.

It does mention CO though but may be back then you could easily obtain it from car exhaust if catalytic converters were not yet a standard.

Inhaling car exhaust is rather unpleasant. In general, CO methods can be divided by the method of obtaining CO (incomplete combustion of charcoal, incomplete combustion of hydrocarbons, numerous lab methods) and by the method of administering it (gas chamber made out of a car or a small room, cannula, face mask, sealed prefilled plastic bag, semi-open plastic bag with a constant CO flow). There is probably a big difference between reliability and discomfort associated with different protocols and their different implementations, so any average data about CTB by CO poisoning in general would most likely say too little about what you can expect from a particular setup.

Regarding gunshot to the head it does mention the duration to death is 2.5 minutes so might be agony involved in it.

Spoiler: NSFW

https://watchpeopledie.tv/post/904/video-1444-suicide

Does it look like the brain of this guy was alive for 2.5 minutes?

 

[ladylazarus4]

N can be replaced with helium (baloon party sets), Argon (welding supplies), propane (stinks worse than shit but it worked in the past aka putting head into the oven) or CO (different mechanism but still obtainable via old engines and stoves)
SN is easily available in Poland. Maybe finding someone from there could help?

btw N is nembutal (pentobarbital) and N2 is nitrogen

 

[Intoxicated]

The reliability of the SN method is not questionable even without any of the auxiliary drugs

Does it cause guaranteed death if vomiting happens shortly (maybe in 1 - 2 minutes) after ingestion? If the answer is no, then antiemetics likely increase the chances of successful CTB, because they either potentially delay vomiting, should it occur despite using medications (thus, giving more time for absorption of the poison), or reduce the odds that such complications happen at all.

the problem of discomfort remains, the auxiliary drugs serve only to reduce discomfort, pain and symptoms.

This factor may be unrelated to reliability if you make your CTB attempt in a place where a potentially effective medical help is out of reach. Otherwise the level of distress may determine the probability of giving up and calling for help with further resuscitation.

 

[human909]

The problem is there are no actual peaceful way to ctb, but when you take the bus you will find everlasting peace.

 

[Eudaimonic]

This factor may be unrelated to reliability if you make your CTB attempt in a place where a potentially effective medical help is out of reach. Otherwise the level of distress may determine the probability of giving up and calling for help with further resuscitation.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Valhala]

Does it cause guaranteed death if vomiting happens shortly (maybe in 1 - 2 minutes) after ingestion? If the answer is no, then antiemetics likely increase the chances of successful CTB, because they either potentially delay vomiting, should it occur despite using medications (thus, giving more time for absorption of the poison), or reduce the odds that such complications happen at all.

This factor may be unrelated to reliability if you make your CTB attempt in a place where a potentially effective medical help is out of reach. Otherwise the level of distress may determine the probability of giving up and calling for help with further resuscitation.

Fatal outcomes have been recorded after consuming only 1 g of SN. Vomiting from SN will not occur immediately, and even if it occurs after 1-2 minutes (which is extremely rare - I do not remember such a case), it is excluded that all 25 g ingested will be thrown out by vomiting SN (according to the protocol). In addition, in case of vomiting, you should have another cup of SN ready. In addition to all this, consuming antiemetics is really desirable because avoiding vomiting (or by reducing its content) speeds up the whole process. So, antiemetics yes and all other medications from the protocol yes, but only SN itself is necessary (I am quoting Stan's guide literally).

Does it cause guaranteed death if vomiting happens shortly (maybe in 1 - 2 minutes) after ingestion? If the answer is no, then antiemetics likely increase the chances of successful CTB, because they either potentially delay vomiting, should it occur despite using medications (thus, giving more time for absorption of the poison), or reduce the odds that such complications happen at all.

This factor may be unrelated to reliability if you make your CTB attempt in a place where a potentially effective medical help is out of reach. Otherwise the level of distress may determine the probability of giving up and calling for help with further resuscitation.

I completely agree with you on this.

 

[Eudaimonic]

In addition, in case of vomiting, you should have another cup of SN ready.

Is there any point to making a third cup? I've heard that most people can't even get the second down.

 

[Young]

I'm probably wasting my time and being stupid, but I'm "testing" a new method. I put a rolled towel on my chest and hit my chest very hard with a heavy object (especially a dumbbell), hoping to cause commotio cordis. This stops the heart and you lose consciousness in a few seconds. If no one rescues you in 3 minutes, you are 97% garanteed to die.

The problem is, it is extremely hard to replicate. I must be one of the few people to consider this as a method. And if I succeed, I'm convinced I'll be the very first person in history to ctb this way.

I'll give up in a couple days if I don't make it work. Simple.

 

[kvorumese]

I'm probably wasting my time and being stupid, but I'm "testing" a new method. I put a rolled towel on my chest and hit my chest very hard with a heavy object (especially a dumbbell), hoping to cause commotio cordis. This stops the heart and you lose consciousness in a few seconds. If no one rescues you in 3 minutes, you are 97% garanteed to die.

The problem is, it is extremely hard to replicate. I must be one of the few people to consider this as a method. And if I succeed, I'm convinced I'll be the very first person in history to ctb this way.

I'll give up in a couple days if I don't make it work. Simple.

May I ask what motivated you to choose this as your method? It seems that it requires high precision to be executed

 

[Valhala]

Is there any point to making a third cup? I've heard that most people can't even get the second down.

I have not come across a single documented case of someone drinking a third cup, a second yes, but I also consider the third completely unnecessary. One cup of 25 g is certainly enough (despite the possible vomiting), so two are quite enough.

 

[atre]

it seemed to be that way in the GuLps video.

May I ask the source for that video? I only can get access to a very low resolution picture in PPH pdf, that's why I cannot grasp how the washing chamber works. Are you 50+ and maybe just subscribed to Exit international? If that is the case, do you know somewhere I can at least see a high resolution version of that GULPS instruction picture so that I can read what is written all over it.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

May I ask the source for that video? I only can get access to a very low resolution picture in PPH pdf, that's why I cannot grasp how the washing chamber works. Are you 50+ and maybe just subscribed to Exit international? If that is the case, do you know somewhere I can at least see a high resolution version of that GULPS instruction picture so that I can read what is written all over it.

In the washing chamber the tube outputing the co must go in low near the bottom. This is so the tube will be under water. What exists out of the reaction chamber is co and acid fumes: this going through water washes the gasses of acid fumes leaving only pure co.


The reaction chamber is where the mixing of formic acid and sulfuric acid is done.

 

[atre]

@pthnrdnojvsc That's much better thank you. But do you know if the tube that enters the gas washing chamber go over the water, OR go through the water. I really have no idea how the gas is "washed". I don't have any chemistry experience, so no idea what route that tube goes in the washing chamber.

Also I've seen some people commenting that filling the chamber with NaOH solution instead of plain water works better?

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

@pthnrdnojvsc That's much better thank you. But do you know if the tube that enters the gas washing chamber go over the water, OR go through the water. I really have no idea how the gas is "washed". I don't have any chemistry experience, so no idea what route that tube goes in the washing chamber.

Also I've seen some people commenting that filling the chamber with NaOH solution instead of plain water works better?

Through the water . Hole/ mouth of output tube must be under water in washing chamber