Anybody like watching Jordan Peterson talks on YouTube?

[Pulpit2018]

So you have people in positions of relative privilege, or sometimes not but trolling a line against their self interest regardless, who feel like their 'free speech' is being disallowed while not realizing the monolithic systems of control already backing up what they are saying.

What does it matter if monolithic systems of control like or dont like my speech?The point is i should be allowed to express it.

For you it may be about 'exploring darkness' which you can still do by all means let's be real but it can act as a rallying point to keep in place systems that cause others to suffer to say the least, like materially, like a rainbow of genocide and life not worth living.

Systems that cause a rainbow of genocide?Thats tough talk.But again you should have the right to say it.Thats what i am talking about.

Often times they do realize the systemic element of their free speech and just don't like the idea of having a group of people who were previously materially and socially placed under them, artificially of course, having a voice and basically saying yo hands off, and attempting to alter a system that has actually destroyed them for hundreds of years.

So you are saying proponents of "free speech" suddenly do not like the idea of marginalized people expressing themselves?
Then they are not proponents of free speech...

Free speech as a phrase is flawed within these discussions in this light because 'free speech' is a trademark, it is a market place product, a legal term belonging to a social construct.

Yes free speech is a legal term.Not a market place product (what does it even mean?Is it sellable or sth?Dont throw stuff out without explaining at least).
Like a lot of legal terms it is a social construct.Like your right to a trial.Does it mean its useless?Irrelevant?Or because it is something that can be taken away from away it means its not worth discussing,defending?
A murderer does not recognize or care about your right to life either,so what?You dont have it anymore?

it is issued to people and taken away from others.

And thats wrong.

It is not synonymous with freedom when the dominant order, social or otherwise, that creates and maintains it has always had full control.

Creates?Maintains?Controls?
You mean like the justice system?Sure somebody retains order in society,but their job is to upheld the constitution.They do not always succeed.Again the failures of the system has do not diminish but strengthen the value of free speech.

I think that's the issue people have. They're not seeing groups of people they don't like utilizing 'free speech', although that angers some, they're seeing a disintegration and casting off of the concept all together to make room for actual freedom.

So you want to cast off the concept of free speech and replace it with what exactly? "Less free speech"?
"Free speech 2.0"?
What exactly do those people want to achieve?
How on earth is removing your right to expression is going to make "room for more actual freedom"?

Seriously we should not be debating stuff that have been well solved since the 18th century.
Are we really going to go backwards here?

 

[Chinaski]

Seriously mate, what are you now forbidden from saying that you feel is really important and necessary to say? Because you can say it, here, in this thread.

 

[Final Escape]

The way you can know there is absolute moral right and wrong is that if you have a conscience you will feel discomfort about doing something. You might feel uncomfortable when you lie when you shouldn't even though sometimes it's necessary to lie if your life is in danger or for self protection, you will feel grief and remorse when u abort your babies in the womb, you will likely feel bad if you stole something from somebody unless u are not capable of empathy and recognize that this will cause pain to the other person. Most people don't argue that sexual abuse, physical, emotional abuse of children is not wrong. You only have to be the kid that goes through this to understand that u were violated morally. We are unfortunately taught through brainwashing that there is subjective morality. Like for example, you justify doing something immoral because your circumstances.

 

[Final Escape]

That's a very strong claim which requires very strong evidence. How do you know what's right and wrong? Why do you know? If you speak in absolute terms, that must imply you have access to empirical data supporting such a statement, right? Otherwise you're not different than all the religious preachers who claim they have reached moral enlightenment and say homosexuality is a sin. And that's hilarious.

I'm not sure if homosexuality is actually a sin, it's not a large percent of the population. I don't really know where it comes from but I definitely think some people are born that way or they were sexually abused at a time in their development by a member of the same sex. Which can cause a conflict in your sexual development. I think you can turn people gay through abuse in childhood. Your child might more likely become gay/bisexual if there was no father in the home and you have a son.

 

[Johnnythefox]

Your child might more likely become gay/bisexual if there was no father in the home and you have a son.

Can you back this up with some evidence?

 

[Chinaski]

Can you back this up with some evidence?

Come on Johnny, you already fucking know the answer to that.

 

[Johnnythefox]

Come on Johnny, you already fucking know the answer to that.

I'm giving you a five for that one.

 

[Final Escape]

Can you back this up with some evidence?

Well if you are a single mother with a son and there's no male role model, this feminizes men. They tend to look to women to take care of them, they might be uncomfortable being in the dominant role because they didn't see this modeled to them. Normally the man needs to be in the dominant role and the woman is submissive and this is actually how it works out best. But when there is no dad, boys don't develop the skills to take on the responsibility of being men. Also the risk of sexual abuse on female and male children goes up 3200% when they grow up with a single mother, unless she was widowed. That's different, those kids still turn out fine. So it's not like it's a definite that your kid will turn gay but you increase the risk when you don't have an intact home with both parents.

 

[Pulpit2018]

Seriously mate, what are you now forbidden from saying that you feel is really important and necessary to say? Because you can say it, here, in this thread.

Thanks Chinaski,i do not feel forbidden to saying something.
I am speaking whenever i feel necessary.

 

[Chinaski]

Well if you are a single mother with a son and there's no male role model this feminizes men. They tend to look to women to take care of them, they might be uncomfortable being in the dominant role because they didn't see this modeled to them. Normally the man needs to be in the dominant role and the woman is submissive and this is actually how it works out best. But when there is no dad, boys don't develop the skills to take on the responsibility of being men. Also the risk of sexual abuse on female and male children goes up 3200% when they grow up with a single mother, unless like she was widowed. That's different, those kids still turn out fine. So it's not like it's a definite that your kid will turn gay but u up the risk when you don't have an intact home with both parents.

Tl;dr: no, l have no evidence.

 

[Johnnythefox]

Well if you are a single mother with a son and there's no male role model, this feminizes men. They tend to look to women to take care of them, they might be uncomfortable being in the dominant role because they didn't see this modeled to them. Normally the man needs to be in the dominant role and the woman is submissive and this is actually how it works out best. But when there is no dad, boys don't develop the skills to take on the responsibility of being men. Also the risk of sexual abuse on female and male children goes up 3200% when they grow up with a single mother, unless she was widowed. That's different, those kids still turn out fine. So it's not like it's a definite that your kid will turn gay but you increase the risk when you don't have an intact home with both parents.

Interesting Hypothesis, so would you say that a female with an absent mother is more likely to be a lesbian also?

 

[ReadyasEver]

I am sorry i dont buy that.There is no way you are a complete person by 13.Hillarious.
People change A LOT since then.

I don't necessarily buy it either, but it is another discussion point of the nature of how much is determined in our minds and how much is not. They'll be going back and forth on that long after my great great great grandchildren are gone.

 

[Final Escape]

 

[Pulpit2018]

We are unfortunately taught through brainwashing that there is subjective morality. Like for example, you justify doing something immoral because your circumstances.

Subjective morality?Hmm.
Maybe you mean moral relativism?

Personally i do not want to insert "God" into morality.
The Ten commandments were written by humans.It was the code of conduct of that era.
Every civilization has certain rules.
Lets just start with the basic principle of "non-aggression" and try to uncipher and crystallize what exactly does that mean.How far does it reaches.When does it apply ,etc...

In the end we will never all agree exactly.
We will get a consensus that makes certain rules and punishments.
That will be the morality of our civilization.
Nothing grand,or absolute about it.Nothing that cant change either.

There are always going to be people who think that rules dont apply to them.
Essentially civilization is nothing more than putting away fires faster than they are created.

 

[Final Escape]

Interesting Hypothesis, so would you say that a female with an absent mother is more likely to be a lesbian also?

I'm not sure but I suspect yes because if you didn't have a dad growing up as a girl, you might have difficulties forming relationships with men, and if you add in sexual abuse as a kid, you are more likely to feel more comfortable around women. I noticed that not having a father in my case turned me more masculine in a way. I felt like I had to be masculine, maybe because I had been victimized in childhood sexually. So I became very tomboyish and competed with boyfriends lol! Or I was trying to be dominant over my boyfriends which is something Jordan Peterson covers in one of his talks. When women have a damaged relationship with their father or with a male role model in childhood it makes u look for guys you can dominate, but this strategy doesn't make women happy. I suspect this was why my relationships always failed, well one reason.

 

[Pulpit2018]

Oh and about the sexual abuse.
I read that in 80 's there was a large phenomenon of false accusations.
Therapists started a practice called sth like "Repressed memory" where they pushed their clients to remember things from their childhood.
The punchline?Those memories were false.
A similar thing happened with accusation of satanic rituals in families.Investigations came up with nothing.
Moral panic of the era?Who knows.

Just a thing you have to remember as a skeptic.
Basically my opinion is take anything in the realm of "psychology" with a grain of salt.

 

[Hopeless_soul]

That when women have a damaged relationship with their father or with a male role model in childhood it makes u look for guys you can dominate

I have a damaged relationship with my father, and I am not dominant at all: quite the contrary... Etc.

 

[Final Escape]

Subjective morality?Hmm.
Maybe you mean moral relativism?

Personally i do not want to insert "God" into morality.
The Ten commandments were written by humans.It was the code of conduct of that era.
Every civilization has certain rules.
Lets just start with the basic principle of "non-aggression" and try to uncipher and crystallize what exactly does that mean.How far does it reaches.When does it apply ,etc...

In the end we will never all agree exactly.
We will get a consensus that makes certain rules and punishments.
That will be the morality of our civilization.
Nothing grand,or absolute about it.Nothing that cant change either.

There are always going to be people who think that rules dont apply to them.
Essentially civilization is nothing more than putting away fires faster than they are created.

Yes moral relativism is bad, and it's pushed on us because it's a method of breaking down morality and confusing people as to what is right and wrong. For example: abortion is legalized but it still is murder. Just because the state legalized it doesn't mean it's cool to kill human beings in the womb, or kill strangers on a battlefield because those in power are paying u and decide it's moral in this situation.

 

[Final Escape]

I have a damaged relationship with my father, and I am not dominant at all: quite the contrary... Etc.

Yes well u might be that exception to the rule or not lol! I'm sure there's some component of genetics, disposition, personality, also if u were lucky enough to have some other mentors who stepped in to mitigate damage.

 

[Nanami]

Hey everyone.

I am closing this thread because I feel like this has gotten way out of hand.
I understand that everyone has a right to their own opinions and views, whether you may agree with them or not.
However, this is Sanctioned Suicide. Among other things, it is a place for people who are suffering in life and need a place to feel at home.
Please understand that racism, homophobia, transphobia and discrimination is a big cause of suffering for some people.

Please, be respectful to each other.
We are all hurting, for one reason or another. Lets not add more to the pile.

Thank you.