Any point trying to reason with a narcissist?

[heylightiforgot]

I've written a note to my parents clearly outlining my reasons for suicide in a calm/rational manner, omitting (obviously) the years of psychological abuse etc. Basically it just describes how I believe my health deteriorated because I struggled with living at home due to other factors (noise etc) and I believe this all contributed to a health decline I won't recover from.

However my parents have been trying to get me 'help' that is far too little too late, given all the damage that's been done.

I feel good explaining myself, I suppose, but also wonder if I'm wasting my breath since my mom is a deranged almost sociopathic narcissist who won't care. If I leave no note she'll say I'm selfish and ungrateful for the help now being offered (that I needed years ago); and if I do explain myself, she won't care. lt's lose/lose.

 

[jgm63]

Ultimately, it's up to you.
I would keep it simple and short.
One option would be to just write in general terms.....
eg "I don't feel at peace, and I'm not at ease in my mind or body, so I want to go somewhere where I will be able to find that peace and rest".
You could also say something like : "I have a yearning, that I cannot fully explain, to be free and at peace"

I'm not sure there is really anything to gain by explaining too much background regarding what caused things.
Personally, I would avoid anything that suggests "blame", etc, because I don't think any good can really come from it.

However, that is just my view.....

 

[Suilven]

Honestly, some people will never change their view. They don't have the capacity for empathy and as such are not able to take a step back and evaluate things, no matter how much hard evidence is put in front of them.

In my experience the best strategy is not to engage, even if they are family. Some things cannot be changed so why waste energy. With some people I can maintain limited contact, although it saps all my energy just keeping a defence. With others I have to cut them out of my life and thoughts altogether.

Amongst them are some of my family members but I've long learned that regardless of my intentions to CTB I'm better off without them.

I suspect some of the help is being offered from a need to feel 'something was done' and to assuage guilt / blame later.

 

[Mr2005]

Honest narcissist here

 

[CrushedHopes]

Hi, I can offer you some insight as an ex-narcissist. Narcissists are stubborn people that *always* think they're in the right, no matter how you try to reason with them. Just focus on your CTB without any regard for how your mom would think.

 

[noctiva]

hei @heylightiforgot, I'm in the same dilemma. My mother loves... herself, her image and how people admire her for how strong she is despite being stricken with a useless husband and two equally inadequate children.
I have written many notes, including to her, for myself where I document my own journey for no one but myself. And I have decided my mother will not get a note at all. I have no reason to explain myself to her, I've been asking for her help since I was a child, and the only help I ever got was 'Don't embarrass me in public, for as long as you can pretend you're fine, you're fine'. She made me write a diary when I was a teenager to 'help me', and I actually wrote how I feel and what is going on, because I was so happy that my mother wanted to finally help me and support me! She checked it for spelling and grammar, she had no interest in what it said.
Basically, what I'm trying to say: write your notes for yourself, for your own journey, for making peace yourself. Parts that you like, write up for your loved ones.
My notes do not blame anyone, even though some people do have played a part in my death. The point of my notes is not to blame the ones left behind, but I'm trying to make their healing process as easy as possible, not to add to it by giving them blame.
The real notes, the ones that do assign blame and anguish and fear, those are mine, no one gets those. But they helped me to gain self-awareness and through that, peace with my death.

If you decide to write a note to your mother, that's great. I am still thinking if I should write one to her as well, but I'm leaning towards no. Whatever I would write would not be heard for what it is, but only serve to make her feel better about herself and her view of me. She would probably hand it around to get attention, pity and admiration for her strength again, and I have no interest in feeding that behaviour.

 

[heylightiforgot]

Well I live with them so am forced to engage. And yeah, I wish I'd ctb'd before they stepped in and 'tried to help' by forcing me to do things I can't and which are actually becoming more detrimental to my health.

So as I say it's lose-lose. CTB and it's "god he's selfish and ungrateful". Leave a clear note (void of blame) describing where I think things worsened and why the help offered now won't be much use, and they won't care.

 

[Suilven]

She would probably hand it around to get attention, pity and admiration for her strength again, and I have no interest in feeding that behaviour.

Agree. With a narccist it doesn't matter that a situation is entirely about someone else, because they will spend every breath turning it to make it about them.

 

[heylightiforgot]

Hi, I can offer you some insight as an ex-narcissist. Narcissists are stubborn people that *always* think they're in the right, no matter how you try to reason with them. Just focus on your CTB without any regard for how your mom would think.

I think the note is less about her feelings and more about clearing me of blame .. Because my parents have formed the view I have no interest in getting better. So I was just trying to calmy explain why I believe that is not possible and point towards factors that led me here without blaming them.
Maybe I could post what I wrote here and get feedback? It's kinda long though.

 

[jgm63]

I don't believe you can realistically have an expectation of achieving a certain outcome from your note......
I would say stop thinking about the note in terms of either a "win", or a "lose".
I think just say what feels right to you.....

I personally don't see the point in going into too much detail, but that is just my view....

 

[CrushedHopes]

I think the note is less about her feelings and more about clearing me of blame .. Because my parents have formed the view I have no interest in getting better. So I was just trying to calmy explain why I believe that is not possible and point towards factors that led me here without blaming them.
Maybe I could post what I wrote here and get feedback? It's kinda long though.

I don't think it would matter if you're just going to die, anyway.

 

[heylightiforgot]

I don't think it would matter if you're just going to die, anyway.

Well there is no guarantee I will ...

 

[CrushedHopes]

Well there is no guarantee I will ...

What's your method?

 

[heylightiforgot]

What's your method?

SN
If anyone wants to read the note anyway I can email it. Would be helpful to get feedback.

 

[WhiteDespair]

1. There's a very low chance they'll change. My mother refused to do simple things because she didn't want to even though they'd help.

2. I would totally leave a note that read "I'm better now." Then again, I am an asshole.

 

[CrushedHopes]

SN
If anyone wants to read the note anyway I can email it. Would be helpful to get feedback.

Would it be possible for you to just book a hotel room and get away from your parents temporarily and get it over with SN CTB?

 

[heylightiforgot]

Would it be possible for you to just book a hotel room and get away from your parents temporarily and get it over with SN CTB?

No, too sick/disabled and no money, plus under watch at home.

 

[CrushedHopes]

No, too sick/disabled and no money, plus under watch at home.

So how do you expect to CTB with so many restrictions?

 

[heylightiforgot]

So how do you expect to CTB with so many restrictions?

Well my mom works from home too lol which makes it even worse. There's an abandoned car I can go to across the road but I'd have to fast until night which is becoming difficult with my health. Friday is her day off and she's likely to be out. Since I fast during sleep a morning attempt is easiest.

My situation is getting dire (losing functioning and parents are happy to dump me in a ward, where I'd likely die due to my physical frailty). So was planning to hopefully just try Friday. I play white noise loudly when I sleep which can mask noise so she's used to that.

I don't know if it's a dumb plan but I'm out of options. My other hope is SN will kill me even if saved because my health is so profoundly poor.

 

[CrushedHopes]

Honestly, it sounds like it'd work.

 

[heylightiforgot]

Honestly, it sounds like it'd work.

I can't even use toothpaste or be around aerosol sprays because my body reacts negatively, which gives you an indication of where I'm at health wise. Hence as I say, wondering if even if I vomit or am found the SN will be such an assault on my system that nothing can be done.

 

[CrushedHopes]

I can't even use toothpaste or be around aerosol sprays because my body reacts negatively, which gives you an indication of where I'm at health wise. Hence as I say, wondering if even if I vomit or am found the SN will be such an assault on my system that nothing can be done.

That sounds like living hell. How can ANYONE force someone with such deteriorating health to keep on living? It's inhumane. Am I to understand that there is no hope of your physical condition getting better? I am going to assume no.

 

[heylightiforgot]

That sounds like living hell. How can ANYONE force someone with such deteriorating health to keep on living? It's inhumane. Am I to understand that there is no hope of your physical condition getting better? I am going to assume no.

Unfortunately not. Only measure would have been preventative like avoiding stress which was impossible with constant abuse at home.

 

[CrushedHopes]

Unfortunately not. Only measure would have been preventative like avoiding stress which was impossible with constant abuse at home.

With so much suffering, I hope you find salvation through death.

 

[heylightiforgot]

With so much suffering, I hope you find salvation through death.

Thank you but I love life. It breaks my heart realizing what my family did to me. I don't see death as much consolation.

 

[CrushedHopes]

Thank you but I love life. It breaks my heart realizing what my family did to me. I don't see death as much consolation.

I am afraid I don't comprehend. If you're suffering so much from constant family abuse and crappy health, why wouldn't death be much consolation?

 

[heylightiforgot]

I am afraid I don't comprehend. If you're suffering so much from constant family abuse and crappy health, why wouldn't death be much consolation?

Because you don't experience death. And while hindsight is 20/20 I'm painfully aware now how I could have potentially avoided reaching this point, even though it's too late. I've been sick and trapped/abused for a long time but enjoyed life prior to that so I guess some part of me always hoped -- however illogically -- that I'd get back to it.

 

[CrushedHopes]

Because you don't experience death. And while hindsight is 20/20 I'm painfully aware now how I could have potentially avoided reaching this point, even though it's too late. I've been sick and trapped/abused for a long time but enjoyed life prior to that so I guess some part of me always hoped -- however illogically -- that I'd get back to it.

Right. Near death experiences are the closest thing to actual death. For me, death *is* going to be my true salvation, without a doubt.

 

[Shakespear's Brother]

If I leave no note she'll say I'm selfish and ungrateful for the help now being offered (that I needed years ago); and if I do explain myself, she won't care. lt's lose/lose.

My mom is like this also and I've come to the conclusion that nothing I could say would make any difference.

The only thing that will concern her about my death is how it affects her and what an imposition it is on her.

Although she is a histrionic also so she will exploit the sympathy angle and play the role of grieving parent publicly to garner attention.

 

[heylightiforgot]

My mom is like this also and I've come to the conclusion that nothing I could say would make any difference.

The only thing that will concern her about my death is how it affects her and what an imposition it is on her.

Although she is a histrionic also so she will exploit the sympathy angle and play the role of grieving parent publicly to garner attention.

So you won't leave one?