Help Anti-psychotic => anti-emetic

[Kfoe!12]

I have prescribed promethazine; a relatively weak anti-psychotic. I'm wondering if anti-psychotic per definition inhibits D2 receptors with antagonist ligands if that would result in the same effect as a dopamine-blocker like metoclopramide which blocks a reflex that causes you to throw up. This study mentions that it had about the same anti-emetic effects during pain relief, however, nausea you feel while downing your favourite substance is not related to pain but rather a reflex. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3921142. Here is another study suggesting the same thing: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20022195.

Any psychopharmacological dudes out there?

 

[Kfoe!12]

UPDATE: I analyzed a couple of more well-researched studies and it seems like antipsychotics and anti-emetical have identical properties on many planes, however, the case with Reglan, it also has 5-HT3 and 5-HT4 agonists making it have a peristalsis inducing effects on some gut parts (the duodenum and the jejunum) hence making it slightly different from antipsychotics. (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128012383649218)

Besides gastroprokinetic impacts, the biggest find I found was this study: http://apm.amegroups.com/article/view/1039/1266

Just reading the introduction section it mentions the antipsychotic nostrum Clozapine has an area of effect in the CTZ (Chemoreceptor Trigger Zone) making it active with the exact same DRA (Dopamine Receptor Antagonist) properties. Here is a nomogram of the area of effect and the different receptor sites:

My conclusion would be that, yes, you can indeed use antipsychotics for antiemetic purposes. It might not be as effective but in practice, it should work, at least for second-generation antipsychotics (Atypical).

If anyone found my interpretation of the data faulty please tell me, wouldn't want false information regarding something as important as suicide.

 

[Duqu]

I know promethazine is definitely an antiemetic as I was prescribed it for that reason a while back. A tiny dose though, 25mg IIRC. I was taken off it because I also take a hefty dose of Thorazine (400mg) for my insomnia and too many "zine" meds can give you permanent side effect of tardive dyskinesia which is...unpleasant...and like I said, doesn't go away. Thorazine is also an antiemetic which is another reason why I like it for sleeping because my gastro problems mean I'm nauseated 24/7 so it's nice to get a little break when I take my night meds.

 

[overkill]

how much promethazine would you need to take (as substitute of Metoclopramide) before taking N?

 

[Duqu]

I have no clue. :/

 

[Kfoe!12]

I know promethazine is definitely an antiemetic as I was prescribed it for that reason a while back. A tiny dose though, 25mg IIRC. I was taken off it because I also take a hefty dose of Thorazine (400mg) for my insomnia and too many "zine" meds can give you permanent side effect of tardive dyskinesia which is...unpleasant...and like I said, doesn't go away. Thorazine is also an antiemetic which is another reason why I like it for sleeping because my gastro problems mean I'm nauseated 24/7 so it's nice to get a little break when I take my night meds.

Thorazine if I remember correctly is also an antipsychotic, it's pretty bad to mix the same type of drugs unless it's an augmented drug (https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/...trategies-for-treatment-resistant-depression/).

how much promethazine would you need to take (as substitute of Metoclopramide) before taking N?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3921142

This study mentions 25mg being effective enough to see results. This article about the drug states the following:
"Usual Adult Dose for Motion Sickness
Treatment:
-Oral and Rectal: 25 mg orally, or rectally once, then 12.5 to 25 mg every 4 to 6 hours as needed"

I would also want to chime in and say that promethazine is not very effective as a dopamine blocker and is more useful through its H1 antagonists.

 

[Duqu]

Yes, I know Thorazine is an antipsychotic...I used to take it and promethazine together (I have bad nausea from several of my conditions) and take 400mg Thorazine and used to take 25mg Promethazine 2x a day. I was taken off Promethazine as I said because of the worry of side effects.

I didn't find 25mg to be at ALL helpful for my nausea honestly...and that was mixing it with 8mg Zofran.

 

[Nonexistence]

Slight change of subject but along the same lines...

Does anybody know anything about what it says in The Peaceful Pill Handbook about the possibility of use of antipyschotics making Nembutal not work properly and possible cause coma state?

 

[Kfoe!12]

Yes, I know Thorazine is an antipsychotic...I used to take it and promethazine together (I have bad nausea from several of my conditions) and take 400mg Thorazine and used to take 25mg Promethazine 2x a day. I was taken off Promethazine as I said because of the worry of side effects.

I didn't find 25mg to be at ALL helpful for my nausea honestly...and that was mixing it with 8mg Zofran.

Yes, promethazine does not carry any heavy antipsychotic properties. H1 antagonists (anti-histamines) make you more sleepy and sedated than anything else.

Slight change of subject but along the same lines...

Does anybody know anything about what it says in The Peaceful Pill Handbook about the possibility of use of antipyschotics making Nembutal not work properly and possible cause coma state?

Do you have a copy? From what I've read of the book it doesn't mention it, I could draw my own conclusions but it would be very irresponsible to answer with a speculation.

 

[Duqu]

Yes, promethazine does not carry any heavy antipsychotic properties. H1 antagonists (anti-histamines) make you more sleepy and sedated than anything else.



Do you have a copy? From what I've read of the book it doesn't mention it, I could draw my own conclusions but it would be very irresponsible to answer with a speculation.

yeah I didn't see anything in the book either.

 

[Nonexistence]

Yes, promethazine does not carry any heavy antipsychotic properties. H1 antagonists (anti-histamines) make you more sleepy and sedated than anything else.

It definately said it I will find the exact wording and post later this evening.

Not wanting to worry anyone, but it is something I've been wanting to get to the bottom of myself for my own possible N use and have stoped taking my low dose antipsychotic (for sleep) because of it.


Do you have a copy? From what I've read of the book it doesn't mention it, I could draw my own conclusions but it would be very irresponsible to answer with a speculation.

Yes, promethazine does not carry any heavy antipsychotic properties. H1 antagonists (anti-histamines) make you more sleepy and sedated than anything else.



Do you have a copy? From what I've read of the book it doesn't mention it, I could draw my own conclusions but it would be very irresponsible to answer with a speculation.

 

[Nonexistence]

Yes, promethazine does not carry any heavy antipsychotic properties. H1 antagonists (anti-histamines) make you more sleepy and sedated than anything else.



Do you have a copy? From what I've read of the book it doesn't mention it, I could draw my own conclusions but it would be very irresponsible to answer with a speculation.

It definately said it I will find the exact wording and post later this evening.

Not wanting to worry anyone, but it is something I've been wanting to get to the bottom of myself for my own possible N use and have stoped taking my low dose antipsychotic (for sleep) because of it.

 

[Nonexistence]

This is what is says in the May 2018 Peaceful Pill eHandbook, available in the resourcessection of this site, in the sectionAdministering Nembutal - A Lethal Dose OfNembutal:

'However there is a small group (estimatedat <1%) who may exhibit a prolongedcomatose phase before death (sometimesup to 24 hours).

In some of the analysed cases, the longcomatose phase was associated with the prolonged use of antipsychotic medicationor chronic heavy alcohol abuse prior to taking the barbiturate.

It is presumed the induction of liver enzymesby these drugs causes increased degradationof the Nembutal, lowering the concentrationin the brain.

In these situations increasing the quantity of the drug taken e.g. 2 bottles 12g may not necessarily hasten the death.

EXIT has examined the use of severalpotentiating drugs which may be dissolved into the liquid Nembutal, removing anypossibility of extended coma. The mostuseful, Dilantin (phenytoin sodium) isdiscussed in this chapter.'

 

[Nonexistence]

really need to get to the bottom of this and I think others do to. Whilst it seems that the Dilantin would 'solve' the problem (providing you can acquire it) and boost the N to 'remove any possibility of extended coma', it's still really vague and extremely worrying, a big grey area. I mean what constitutes'prolonged use'? A month? Six months? 10 years? It's not specific. And like people are asking, would it be okay to stop the antipsychotic, get it out your system, thetake N & have no problem? If so, what is the time frame? A week before taking N, amonth, six months etc? Does it changedepending what dose you're on?

I only take a small dose antipsychotic forsleep last few months, but a lot of people are being prescribed them for this kind of use.

I've thought about emailing EXIT to try to findout more information if there is any, but I'm not a member etc being only 33...

 

[Nonexistence]

This issue is also now being discussed on the new thread 'Nembutal and antipsychotic drugs' if anyone wants to head over there.

 

[Swisher]

I have no clue. :/

Duqu
I just got on here...don't know if this will even post, but my situation is just like yours. I have all kinds of stuff... no N but fresh, 60M.. now how do I not fail? I CANNOT FAIL. I currently Have the luxury of time. Anyway, how are you doing? Or what are you thinking?
Btw, there is no info on me yet, so no response is cool.

 

[Smilla]

I'm an alcoholic, and now a Benzo user....

The PPH and one of the other assisted dying guides said (in italics for emphasis) to cease use of alcohol, benzos, and anti psychotic drugs for at least 3-4 weeks before death with N.

This advice made me pause (abruptly, I was sorely disappointed), and quickly abandon N (had already emailed A), leaving me in pursuit of another method which actually suits me better for above and other reasons.

N is great if it works. If it doesn't you are risking prolonged coma and heavens knows what else.

If you can't stop these medications safely, I'd strongly suggest looking into another method.

I am NOT going to argue with MDs and biochemists...I mean it when I said I paused abruptly when I learned N would not be suitable for me...my stomach dropped. N is the rolls Royce of self deliverance but it's not suitable for everyone. And even if I could or was willing to stop drinking—where is the evidence that GABA repairs itself in weeks? Or liver enzymes?

Would rather blow my brains out than risk a prolonged coma.

Listen to the assisted dying folks.

 

[Smilla]

UPDATE: I analyzed a couple of more well-researched studies and it seems like antipsychotics and anti-emetical have identical properties on many planes, however, the case with Reglan, it also has 5-HT3 and 5-HT4 agonists making it have a peristalsis inducing effects on some gut parts (the duodenum and the jejunum) hence making it slightly different from antipsychotics. (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128012383649218)

Besides gastroprokinetic impacts, the biggest find I found was this study: http://apm.amegroups.com/article/view/1039/1266

Just reading the introduction section it mentions the antipsychotic nostrum Clozapine has an area of effect in the CTZ (Chemoreceptor Trigger Zone) making it active with the exact same DRA (Dopamine Receptor Antagonist) properties. Here is a nomogram of the area of effect and the different receptor sites:

My conclusion would be that, yes, you can indeed use antipsychotics for antiemetic purposes. It might not be as effective but in practice, it should work, at least for second-generation antipsychotics (Atypical).

If anyone found my interpretation of the data faulty please tell me, wouldn't want false information regarding something as important as suicide.

We need a resident
MD here. And even if we did have one , this level of detail is irrelevant and no one here will be able to answer you intelligently, even if they were an MD.

Find another method.

 

[Nonexistence]

I'm an alcoholic, and now a Benzo user....

The PPH and one of the other assisted dying guides said (in italics for emphasis) to cease use of alcohol, benzos, and anti psychotic drugs for at least 3-4 weeks before death with N.

This advice made me pause (abruptly, I was sorely disappointed), and quickly abandon N (had already emailed A), leaving me in pursuit of another method which actually suits me better for above and other reasons.

N is great if it works. If it doesn't you are risking prolonged coma and heavens knows what else.

If you can't stop these medications safely, I'd strongly suggest looking into another method.

I am NOT going to argue with MDs and biochemists...I mean it when I said I paused abruptly when I learned N would not be suitable for me...my stomach dropped. N is the rolls Royce of self deliverance but it's not suitable for everyone. And even if I could or was willing to stop drinking—where is the evidence that GABA repairs itself in weeks? Or liver enzymes?

Would rather blow my brains out than risk a prolonged coma.

Listen to the assisted dying folks.

This is the kind of detail I think of.

And what if you did survive N & came out of coma, would it severe brain damage like hanging? It isn't something I see discussed, even though I know it's said to be rare.

I want to go with N, but I'm obsessed with certainty, I need that over comfort.

A bullet or a 500ft drop seem most certain to me?