Another News article on SaSu

[Lost21]

My sister was found dead. Then I discovered her search history – and the online world that had gripped her

Adele Zeynep Walton’s sibling Aimee was a talented artist who loved music. It was only after her death that Walton realised Aimee had been lured into a dangerous community – and that others may also be victims of it

www.theguardian.com

 

[Mooncry]

"A dangerous community." Just reading the preview makes me roll my eyes. I think I'm gonna avoid reading the actual article cuz I know it's only gonna annoy the shit outta me.

 

[white_car]

Virtue signaling I guess... I'd say the world around this poor girl is what was "dangerous" to her.

 

[xhelx]

I think she just has a hard time accepting that her sister was suicidal. The way she blames the forum is almost funny. Her sister was an adult, and no one forced her to join. She knew exactly what this forum was about and she choose to make an account.
I'm not saying for sure that no one encouraged her to do it, but in over a year since I've made this account I've never seen a single person encouraging someone to kill themselves, it's usually something like "it's your life and it's up to you what you do with it". This is NOT encouraging suicide, it's just not being specifically against it.
Also, this is literally an online forum. She could have logged out whenever she wanted. I see absolutely no reason why someone would "groom" her into doing this.

 

[amomentspeace]

my sister is dead!! quick I need to write a 20 GBP book to cash out while it's still relevant !! Makes me sick every time

 

[catfriend]

I think she just has a hard time accepting that her sister was suicidal. The way she blames the forum is almost funny. Her sister was an adult, and no one forced her to join. She knew exactly what this forum was about and she choose to make an account.

mm, much easier to blame a forum than to accept the fact that your adult daughter/sister came to a decision, made a plan, and acted on it.

this dubious bit supports it:

She initially described her sister's death as "suicide" – but says that no longer feels like a faithful representation of Aimee's demise. Because if suicide is a self-directed, injurious behaviour, how far can a person be judged to be self-directed when acting under the influence of a purposeful online community?

still, i feel for the family. i just hope they are looking at the bigger picture -- the circumstances that lead one to kill oneself are seldom straightforward.

 

[Apathy79]

Nothing interesting there. Another shill trying to sell a book with a free advertising boost from the media.

 

[quietwoods]

mm, much easier to blame a forum than to accept the fact that your adult daughter/sister came to a decision, made a plan, and acted on it.

this dubious bit supports it:



still, i feel for the family. i just hope they are looking at the bigger picture -- the circumstances that lead one to kill oneself are seldom straightforward.

I think that (looking at the bigger picture) is what causes most people to look for something to blame, like this forum. They realize on some level they missed signs or could have done more to help the person, but coming to terms with those feelings is difficult, so they try to redirect blame.

Not saying the family is to blame or should feel guilty, just that this seems like another case of misdirected guilt.

 

[catfriend]

I think that (looking at the bigger picture) is what causes most people to look for something to blame, like this forum. They realize on some level they missed signs or could have done more to help the person, but coming to terms with those feelings is difficult, so they try to redirect blame.

Not saying the family is to blame or should feel guilty, just that this seems like another case of misdirected guilt.

great point. grief is hard. :(

 

[SmilingNoMore]

The outside world will simply never understand ... "a complex network of online connections" ... right.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I can already start myself feeling worked up by the brief description here... So, I don't think I can read the whole article without that increasing.

I agree with others, in that families are so torn apart and confused and likely unwilling to accept their loved one took this action thoughtfully and willingly, that they look for somewhere to place blame.

It makes me wonder whether our own families might. I won't have anyone close enough to care enough when my time comes. I just don't know how people will react though.

I wonder if it's to do with how we present to them. How well we've gotten at hiding our true feelings. I imagine this kind of response is going to be more intense if the person gave out fewer signs. But then, maybe not.

Responses absolutely baffle me sometimes. Not this is the case here. I don't know but I've read things like: 'We knew they were battling with depression and had talked about ideation but, we had no idea.'

 

[rozeske]

Yet another lies and misrepresentation of this forum. The whole thing is just sad to read really, not only the suicide of the person but also the points that are miles away from the truth. The only interesting thing i found they mentioned is the arrest of someone for assisting the suicide of another user here, who is now out on bail. It's a reminder to be careful at all times, especially if from similar areas.

 

[imtiredasf]

I'm new here. Never even considered a place like this could exist. I found it looking for the old ASH bus stop IRC, and now I'm here. I didn't know SaSu was such a hot button issue, or that so many people had such an issue with it's existence.

If I didn't find some sense of community or support or understanding in the next like, month? I would have only gotten worse and probably ctb. Having people who understand, and speak frankly, and share their experiences and empathize matters so much, and there's no way to have discussions like this on Facebook or whatever because of the big tech censorship.

But hey, at least the relatives get to cash in and write a book and go on tour and make a name for themselves. Disgusting.

 

[alwaysalone]

I agree she's trying to find someone to blame. It's normal. However she says her sister was "groomed" by people on the site. She also claims she came on here to see what it was about and claimed she saw people telling others to "kill" themselves. I have very rarely seen anything like that. I've been lurking for awhile. Unless maybe in pms I have a hard time believing that.

 

[WatchmeBurn]

The forum itself was founded by two men, according to a New York Times investigation, who run a number of websites for "incels". Wanting to retrace her sister's last steps, Walton visited the forum herself. "A lot of the posts are basically saying, 'Your family don't care about you', 'You should do it'. 'When are you going to catch the bus?' is a phrase they use."

Walton believes that what takes place on the forum "is a type of radicalisation into an extreme action that people otherwise might not even have considered." She is haunted by the possibility that the man who was with Aimee when she died was "living out a sick fantasy as an incel who wants to see a young and vulnerable woman end her life".

It's hard to believe that this is what "a lot of posts are basically saying". I go on here (unfortunately) multiple times a week and I never see comments like this, e.g., actively encouraging or pushing someone to do it. It's sad that people can just say this trite without pushback, but imagine if someone went on the news and 'defended' the website? They'd be "pro wanting young people to kill themselves" and would be socially scorned. It's pathetic.

Who is saying "when are you going to CTB"? Who is pushing people to do it sooner? I don't see these posts and if they do exist then I hope whomever saying it is quickly banned.

As for the social dynamics of the forum-it is probably true that there is a level of 'normalisation' and knowledge sharing that makes suicide more likely, but if someone takes the effort to find SaSu then they're obviously already suicidal. It's not like you can just find it on a whim when googling puppies, is it? Don't be ridiculous. It's giving people a chance to kill themselves peacefully (relatively speaking) rather than using a more painful method. If its increasing suicide (which I think it may do slightly, but not significantly) then deal with the root causes (e.g., a broken mental health system, for starters) and not the symptoms. If she hadn't killed herself with SN because of information on here then she still would've been suffering immensely or would've attempted in some other way. I feel for her above all else because I'd rather she be happy than dead, but this just seems to disregard her actual issues as so many of these articles do.

Regarding her supposedly dying with a man (through the 'partners thread'?), I don't know if there's evidence that there was anything untoward about the man. I've not read the book and I'm not paying £20 for it obviously. I do think that it's a risky thing to do if you're a young woman and I wouldn't be surprised if there are real horror stories. Did he also die? I don't know. I think it should be made super clear on the forum that it's a very dangerous activity. Maybe more so than it is now.

Finally, regarding the incel stuff, I never got the idea that this is an incel forum. I am not an incel and loathe misogynistic cultures like that. There are a lot of women on here. If the owners are incels then fuck them, but this is evidently not an incel site nor have the admins ever pushed it in an incel direction (I think many would immediately leave if they did-quite rightly).

To link SaSu to incel culture and even extreme grooming communities like that Discord one that gets girls to self-harm (cannot remember the name) is nonsensical.

Walton's consideration of victims of online harms in her book ranges widely – from Archie Battersbee

Yet another case where the grieving family member is unable to deal with the trauma and the feeling of responsibility/guilt so deflects it onto other things. No, there is 0 evidence of this "Tik Tok challenge", nor of the idea it's even physically possible to hold your breathe long enough to cause brain damage. He killed himself, I'm sorry, but he did.


Sad and bad article. The Channel4 coverage was even worse. I am thinking of Aimee Walton today.

 

[alwaysalone]

It's hard to believe that this is what "a lot of posts are basically saying". I go on here (unfortunately) multiple times a week and I never see comments like this, e.g., actively encouraging or pushing someone to do it. It's sad that people can just say this trite without pushback, but imagine if someone went on the news and 'defended' the website? They'd be "pro wanting young people to kill themselves" and would be socially scorned. It's pathetic.

Who is saying "when are you going to CTB"? Who is pushing people to do it sooner? I don't see these posts and if they do exist then I hope whomever saying it is quickly banned.

As for the social dynamics of the forum-it is probably true that there is a level of 'normalisation' and knowledge sharing that makes suicide more likely, but if someone takes the effort to find SaSu then they're obviously already suicidal. It's not like you can just find it on a whim when googling puppies, is it? Don't be ridiculous. It's giving people a chance to kill themselves peacefully (relatively speaking) rather than using a more painful method. If its increasing suicide (which I think it may do slightly, but not significantly) then deal with the root causes (e.g., a broken mental health system, for starters) and not the symptoms. If she hadn't killed herself with SN because of information on here then she still would've been suffering immensely or would've attempted in some other way. I feel for her above all else because I'd rather she be happy than dead, but this just seems to disregard her actual issues as so many of these articles do.

Regarding her supposedly dying with a man (through the 'partners thread'?), I don't know if there's evidence that there was anything untoward about the man. I've not read the book and I'm not paying £20 for it obviously. I do think that it's a risky thing to do if you're a young woman and I wouldn't be surprised if there are real horror stories. Did he also die? I don't know. I think it should be made super clear on the forum that it's a very dangerous activity. Maybe more so than it is now.

Yes I think the "man" may be more involved. They spent 11 day together b4 she died.

Finally, regarding the incel stuff, I never got the idea that this is an incel forum. I am not an incel and loathe misogynistic cultures like that. There are a lot of women on here. If the owners are incels then fuck them, but this is evidently not an incel site nor have the admins ever pushed it in an incel direction (I think many would immediately leave if they did-quite rightly).

To link SaSu to incel culture and even extreme grooming communities like that Discord one that gets girls to self-harm (cannot remember the name) is nonsensical.

I believe the two men who founded this site also run incel sites. But from reading old threads they turned it over to rain years ago. I did see a thread where one has come back as a consultant or some type of support.

Yet another case where the grieving family member is unable to deal with the trauma and the feeling of responsibility/guilt so deflects it onto other things. No, there is 0 evidence of this "Tik Tok challenge", nor of the idea it's even physically possible to hold your breathe long enough to cause brain damage. He killed himself, I'm sorry, but he did.


Sad and bad article. The Channel4 coverage was even worse. I am thinking of Aimee Walton today.

 

[catfriend]

It makes me wonder whether our own families might. I won't have anyone close enough to care enough when my time comes. I just don't know how people will react though.

yeah, this is the exact thing i'm wondering, in the lead-up to my ctb. if it'll be 'NUCLEAR APOCALYPSE!!1', or if they'll understand (in a way that grieving people can) why i did it.

i know i would hate for them to plaster my name on some tacky tabloid article, though. i don't want to be immortalized like that -- who does?! (all the more incentive to remove any trace of SaSu usage.)

 

[WatchmeBurn]

Yes I think the "man" may be more involved. They spent 11 day together b4 she died.

I believe the two men who founded this site also run incel sites. But from reading old threads they turned it over to rain years ago. I did see a thread where one has come back as a consultant or some type of support.

That's strange. I wonder if there is any more information about this guy.

Worst case scenario is very bad, in that case.

I think it is sadly inevitable that this sort of site will attract predatory people. admins just have to be on top of banning anyone who gives a hint of misogyny, encouragement (including in PMs, which should probably be monitored at least for keywords tbqh), advocating violence against innocent people, aggressively trying to meet-up particularly if in a sexual manner, etc.

I don't know how much this happens behind the closed doors of PMs and such because I've not been on the partner thread.

 

[ClamChowder]

This article is wrong about so much. I want to see receipts.

https://archive.is/ZMgTZ - article

This is about the same person so read this for more information:

Another example of BBC lying about users.

Many will know about the recent article released by the dynamic duo at the BBC. They focused their energy on the partner thread and covered descriptions of how they believed the thread had caused harm. But that wasn't the primary topic of this thread. Within that article, they created a...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[quietwoods]

great point. grief is hard. :(

Why I am an advocate for leaving a note. I plan on leaving a general one explaining why I CTB'd and an individual note to most of the people in my life. I want them to have closure and not blame themselves.

Or go looking for something to blame.

 

[Apathy79]

This article is rubbish. I want to see receipts.

https://archive.is/ZMgTZ - article

This is about the same person so read this for more information:

Another example of BBC lying about users.

Many will know about the recent article released by the dynamic duo at the BBC. They focused their energy on the partner thread and covered descriptions of how they believed the thread had caused harm. But that wasn't the primary topic of this thread. Within that article, they created a...

sanctioned-suicide.net

That clears up that part. And the writers of the article knew about it. So the whole thing is just deliberate lies to sell an article (and now a book). Case solved.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Yup. Just more sensationalized tripe. They couldn't "save" her themselves, so they need a scapegoat.

 

[Unbearable Mr. Bear]

Grief and loss is not easy to deal with, but directing the pain and fallout towards an entire community is what makes people feel more suicidal you know?

 

[StupidCat]

They somehow managed to make incels and Trump to blame, incredible.

 

[2muchpain2]

My sister was found dead. Then I discovered her search history – and the online world that had gripped her

Adele Zeynep Walton’s sibling Aimee was a talented artist who loved music. It was only after her death that Walton realised Aimee had been lured into a dangerous community – and that others may also be victims of it

www.theguardian.com

"lured in" please. people who do not deal with this have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[VoidButterfly]

This article is rubbish. I want to see receipts.

https://archive.is/ZMgTZ - article

This is about the same person so read this for more information:

Another example of BBC lying about users.

Many will know about the recent article released by the dynamic duo at the BBC. They focused their energy on the partner thread and covered descriptions of how they believed the thread had caused harm. But that wasn't the primary topic of this thread. Within that article, they created a...

sanctioned-suicide.net

This proves there was no good faith at all in this article or book. Hope the cash was worth it.

 

[SchizoGymnast]

I feel like this is a "seek and ye shall find" situation. There is sooooooo much counter evidence available on this site and yet I feel like they went out of their way to dig for the most egregious comments they could find.

 

[quietwoods]

This proves there was no good faith at all in this article or book. Hope the cash was worth it.

My favorite part is they put the book on sale (2 GBP off) at the time the article was published.

 

[goodlifesurfaceskim]

Who is to say, these same people do not influence in a warped and distorted way? Our truth is no less than theirs. Have empathy for the reasons, Your horror is half of what hers could have been without this community. The world is fucked. That's why this place exists. Where death has no definition and religion uses it to control. With realization, this becomes the real horror. They need to channel their grief away from those grieving life. Or else they further constrict us, the ones they want to "help"

 

[onmywaytothebusstop]

It seems like she's trying to gather some internet clout and is using her dead sister to achieve it.

No one is being lured or enticed and people from outside sasu are completely delusional. I have yet to meet the first person that is forced to be here.

What a great human being. Your sister would be proud.