Method angel's recipe - SN protocol w/ feeding tube i've been working on, any advice is appreciated!

[wannabeangel]

i've been trying to work on my own SN protocol that will hopefully work the best for me, with meds i can get quite easily or already have. i also plan on pushing the SN solution through the J port of my GJ tube, the J port bypasses your stomach completely, and im hoping that makes it harder if not impossible to throw up, since i had to get it in the first place to not throw up like i would running normal food into my G port with it. here is a picture that shows how it is inside if you dont understand completely


this is basically what i have, but a button not a dangler tube anymore like in the pic, but that makes no difference of how it works inside

here are the supplies i plan on using

- SN, 50g (two doses)
- clonazepam ~10mg
- tylenol 1000mg
- pregabalin 600-1000mg
- baclofen 20mg 3x that day, 40mg beforehand?
- zofran, 4mg every 8h day 1, 16-20mg day 0
- clonidine 0.4mg-0.8mg (considering)
- famotidine 20mg 2x a day, 40mg day 0
- tramadol, 150mg (considering)​

with my gastroparesis and GERD, i tend to make a lot of extra stomach acid, so i plan to start antiacids 3 days before instead of a 2 day one like i usually see. the suggested med for nausea and everything is the one that gave me bad side effects (reglan) so i will use my zofran prescription instead, but higher doses like they use pre-surgery or during chemo. im starting to take zofran the day before so hopefully it builds up and works good. i plan on using lyrica too as a sedative as it gets me high lol, 600mg made me nod out before

here are my notes for a plan timeline

DAY 2

- regular daily meds
- famotidine 20mg 2x​

DAY 1

- regular daily meds
- famotidine 20mg 3x
- zofran 4mg every 8h (x3)​

DAY 0

- regular daily meds
- famotidine 1 X 20mg with last meal
- start solid fast for at least 8h
- famotidine 1 X 20mg
- prepare bedroom and everything needed
- ~6h later pregabs 600mg, liquid fast besides sips for pills
- ~1h later tylenol 1000mg, baclofen 40mg, maybe tramadol and clonidine as well?
- 15 min later zofran 16-20mg
- 15 min later famotidine 40mg, then mix up benzo solution w/ maybe 400mg more pregab if it's not hitting hard enough
- 20 min later take benzos (through J tube as well), then mix up SN and draw into syringe
- 5-10 min later SN through J tube port of feeding tube
- relax and sleep in peace​

how does this seem? i tried to think of the best meds i have and can use for things to be more peaceful, im hoping to pass out before the SN starts really taking over, i want it peaceful not only for myself, but so my family knows my last moments were calm and not suffering

 

[spero_meliora]

I'm sorry life has brought you to this point and I'm sorry you're here

Your suspicion is correct by the way, you should absorb it more quickly with less nausea due to it going it into the jejunum. my only concern for you is that it might cause a pretty significant burning sensation, and there's a chance you might get some bad cramping because the SN will immediately start to draw water from the cells.

so in short - faster, but possibly more painful for you. I would urge you to ideally not give yourself too many more medications than "necessary" (such as adding the tramadol), as it might make you too tired to actually push the SN through.

oh, and one other thing: metoclopramide is recommended due to the effect on gastric emptying. you don't need that as all as you're bypassing the stomach. just use what works for you

 

[wannabeangel]

I'm sorry life has brought you to this point and I'm sorry you're here

thank you i wish life didnt bring me to this point, but the thoughts have been here for years, they're just getting more serious now

Your suspicion is correct by the way, you should absorb it more quickly with less nausea due to it going it into the jejunum. my only concern for you is that it might cause a pretty significant burning sensation, and there's a chance you might get some bad cramping because the SN will immediately start to draw water from the cells.

so in short - faster, but possibly more painful for you. I would urge you to ideally not give yourself too many more medications than "necessary" (such as adding the tramadol), as it might make you too tired to actually push the SN through.

oh, and one other thing: metoclopramide is recommended due to the effect on gastric emptying. you don't need that as all as you're bypassing the stomach. just use what works for you

ohh that makes sense, i have made myself cramp by flushing meds too fast thru my J port, sometimes it burned a little too when i put a shot of alcohol thru it (really dumb idea but im dumb LOL) but watered it down so it didnt burn that much. if i diluted the SN more, and maybe ran it through a gravity feeding bag instead of a syringe so there's a bit more volume vs my 60mL syringes. im not sure if that will make the SN slower, or more equal to the time it takes when drinking it orally?

i heard others describe a burning sensation when drinking it, saying it was similar to alcohol not completely intolerable, so if its like that i dont mind pushing through the sting, but would prefer it didnt sting at all, maybe if i did it slow enough it wont burn as much, going slow usually helps with cramps

i probably wont add the tramadol besides my usual morning pain med routine, i do wanna get pretty high on lyrica before the benzos and SN tho since that alone made me fall asleep before, the combo should knock me out quite quickly but i may have to be careful with timing, or doing it through the feed bag so all i need to do is attach and unclamp

 

[ilovemanhattancafe]

i have no advice in regards to your medication but i wish you peace

 

[wannabeangel]

i have no advice in regards to your medication but i wish you peace

thank you im not ready to go through with it yet, i still need to buy the SN and get my refills, and do little things off my bucket list so i feel more ready whenever its time. im more just making sure i get my method down good

 

[Dontwant2Bhere]

I wish I had a J port to do this with... I'm still considering using a feeding tube just to get the stuff into the stomach, since I'm having such a hard time drinking the stuff. And also since vomiting would make it difficult to drink a second glass.

 

[wannabeangel]

I wish I had a J port to do this with... I'm still considering using a feeding tube just to get the stuff into the stomach, since I'm having such a hard time drinking the stuff. And also since vomiting would make it difficult to drink a second glass.

i heard of NG tubes used to do some protocols in the PPH, so it could help and it is possible to place NG tubes in by yourself, when i had those as my first kind of feeding tube after being taught and having it done on me multiple times it was easier to do most of it myself, it *is* uncomfortable and can hurt, but that isn't the same for everyone ik for some people it's no problem, i just have nerve issues lol

you really really REALLY need to be careful when placing an NG tube especially on your own if you dont already have one or can get one from an actual doctor, it's possible to buy them online you just have to get the right size and research proper placement, when i ran out of NG tubes at one point i had to buy them online when my supplier didn't deliver them in time, they're usually just asian or overall international brands unless it's someone donating supplies, but ppl usually only donate supplies to other ppl they know with an illness who needs them, the ones online from decent shops work the same tho especially when it'll be temporary. i dont remember the ones my mom got me when i ran out, ik the packaging had chinese letters tho most of them do. i have so many NG tubes and supplies for placement left over from my actual medical supply company from insurance tho that i got no clue what to do with those XD saving them for emergencies ig you never know if a PEG tube like i got can break

i could share advice i know on feeding tubes, im unsure how allowed it is but since there are SN method threads, a safety thread for people considering NG or other feeding tubes as part of their plan, because i do not want people placing their own and accidentally going into their lung, or putting the tube in too deep or too shallow since there's a way you measure how far in you'll put it & you mark the end of it with tape so yk it's not too far. it's tricky to learn to do safely first, but once learned and you get used to it then it's not an issue. when i needed a new one in the hospital the nurses loved me because i felt more comfortable placing it mainly by myself so they had less work to do LOL but that was after getting mine placed by nurses and my mom enough and them messing up the angle since they cant feel it i felt more comfortable and was quicker placing it on my own and figured out which nostril felt most comfortable. the first week of having it in for me is usually the most sore, so i have tricks to make NGs feel a bit less irritating too, some people dont have too much of an issue but in my experience, it takes a bit for my body to get used to talking and swallowing without irritation of some sort

if you are seriously considering it and have any questions i can share whatever i know, i've been a tubie for years and went from NG tubes to PEG-J tube surgery. i didn't have an NJ, and you CANNOT do that at home by yourself, as you need an xray to check for proper placement past the stomach into the jejunum, instead of curled up inside your stomach as that can be painful iirc and cause issues. tbh all the info can be found online, but some questions may be harder to find if it's based on personal experience and not just clinical info and medical instructions like how it feels, but if you look up some youtubers with chronic illness they also share that sorta info and one girl i followed helped me out with her video on self-placement NG tubes and gave me the confidence to not need a nurse or my mom to help me lol

one thing to note tho, you can throw up with an NG tube, and it's possible to throw up the NG tube itself when placed (it looks like it still being in your nose but the end of it comes out your mouth) it happens if you vomit often and very hard, i see other people with gastroparesis like me having that issue, i am not sure if it will be an issue with SN if you vomit hard from it. it should help avoid nausea and vomiting triggered by the taste, but it's still in your stomach and your body will react as if you drank it just without tasting it, but the protocols have antiemetics and sedatives for a reason

 

[Dontwant2Bhere]

What about this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SQCKCCZ?ref_=ppx_hzod_image_mob_b_fed_asin_title_0_0

I have a feeling the tubing from that is going to be all wrong though, as I started thinking about it afterwards.

If you don't mind, can you share the sources of where and what you would get that's correct? I just don't know the terminology and correct names and all that.

Still not sure if I'm gonna do this or not with the SN. I still wanna order the right tube though, just because!

 

[wannabeangel]

What about this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SQCKCCZ?ref_=ppx_hzod_image_mob_b_fed_asin_title_0_0

I have a feeling the tubing from that is going to be all wrong though, as I started thinking about it afterwards.

If you don't mind, can you share the sources of where and what you would get that's correct?

nope do not do that those are for pets! i def do not recommend using that sorta animal gear for this

what you would have to search is either Corflo Ultra-Lite Enfit Nasogastric Feeding Tube as thats a brand i recognize, but anything that is an adult human nasogastric feeding tube should work, searching it shows a lot of medical supply stores which i am not sure on this, but i don't know if you need an Rx to buy from medical supply stores online, tho a quick google search about that just says it depends. i remember seeing decent ones on amazon before, but it seems like there's a lot less

 

[Dontwant2Bhere]

nope do not do that those are for pets! i def do not recommend using that sorta animal gear for this

what you would have to search is either Corflo Ultra-Lite Enfit Nasogastric Feeding Tube as thats a brand i recognize, but anything that is an adult human nasogastric feeding tube should work, searching it shows a lot of medical supply stores which i am not sure on this, but i don't know if you need an Rx to buy from medical supply stores online, tho a quick google search about that just says it depends. i remember seeing decent ones on amazon before, but it seems like there's a lot less

I think they're all prescription only. I even looked on eBay (before I knew the correct terminology) and didn't see much.

That's why I was looking for pet/farming related stuff, because that isn't regulated as strongly

 

[wannabeangel]

I think they're all prescription only. I even looked on eBay (before I knew the correct terminology) and didn't see much.

That's why I was looking for pet/farming related stuff, because that isn't regulated as strongly

i understand that, in the past i remember seeing listings on amazon + facebook groups that give supplies to those in need, maybe they changed it or it's different in different places (i am in the US). i would really avoid anything made for animals since it will most likely not be the right size or length, i would have to personally look into it more to give more of an opinion (as in theory if it's the right size and shape, it technically could work but still more risky) i feel like there's gotta be some sorta way still, it has been a few years since i needed to buy my own medical supplies tho

i have another example of the NG tubes i have saved for just in case moments, since it feels wrong to get rid of them, this has more info on the bag. they're past their use date but like unless it's physically degrading im pretty sure it's safe, most things are. like my feeding tube bags they're supposed to be one use/changed in 24h but it's a well known trick for many tubies to just boil them and wash them out, GI systems aren't exactly made to be sterile, and most supplies can be resensitized

Spoiler: pics of the tubes

EDIT: looked them up on ebay by just googling "ebay nasogastric feeding tube" and found a listing for the brand i have, idk if it depends on location but def search more, iirc linking things is against the rules (unsure if it only applies to resources of specific CTB supplies and not just general things) but you're free to message me if you have any more questions or anything!

 

[Dontwant2Bhere]

i understand that, in the past i remember seeing listings on amazon + facebook groups that give supplies to those in need, maybe they changed it or it's different in different places (i am in the US). i would really avoid anything made for animals since it will most likely not be the right size or length, i would have to personally look into it more to give more of an opinion (as in theory if it's the right size and shape, it technically could work but still more risky) i feel like there's gotta be some sorta way still, it has been a few years since i needed to buy my own medical supplies tho

i have another example of the NG tubes i have saved for just in case moments, since it feels wrong to get rid of them, this has more info on the bag. they're past their use date but like unless it's physically degrading im pretty sure it's safe, most things are. like my feeding tube bags they're supposed to be one use/changed in 24h but it's a well known trick for many tubies to just boil them and wash them out, GI systems aren't exactly made to be sterile, and most supplies can be resensitized

Spoiler: pics of the tubes

View attachment 200454View attachment 200455

See, those are so much smaller and probably much softer and more flexible than the listing I found. I have my doubts what I found would work at all.

 

[wannabeangel]

See, those are so much smaller and probably much softer and more flexible than the listing I found. I have my doubts what I found would work at all.

yes they're very flexy and the Fr (french gauge, basically the diameter of the tube) of mine are on the smaller end iirc (i use 10FR NG tubes in the past as they were the most comfortable but large enough for pushing meds and thicker things) and even tho the pics might make it look short curled up they're pretty long, cuz they gotta go into your stomach and enough hanging out out of your nose to tape to your face. im not sure if there are animal ones with the same sizes as human ones since their anatomy is different, and a lot of feeding tubes for animals tend to be ones made to put in and take out right after, especially for small/baby animals. humans kinda do the same but that's mainly done in eating disorder treatment hospitals or to pump someone's stomach for an OD. i would really try to get a human one

 

[Dontwant2Bhere]

yes they're very flexy and the Fr (french gauge, basically the diameter of the tube) of mine are on the smaller end iirc (i use 10FR NG tubes in the past as they were the most comfortable but large enough for pushing meds and thicker things) and even tho the pics might make it look short curled up they're pretty long, cuz they gotta go into your stomach and enough hanging out out of your nose to tape to your face. im not sure if there are animal ones with the same sizes as human ones since their anatomy is different, and a lot of feeding tubes for animals tend to be ones made to put in and take out right after, especially for small/baby animals. humans kinda do the same but that's mainly done in eating disorder treatment hospitals or to pump someone's stomach for an OD. i would really try to get a human one

See, I don't think the one I listed is meant to go in their nose or anything. The one I linked would be 16 french I believe, and it's a stiffer material.

 

[wannabeangel]

See, I don't think the one I listed is meant to go in their nose or anything. The one I linked would be 16 french I believe, and it's a stiffer material.

yeah it looked like more of one that goes directly into an animal's mouth, and 16FR is quite large usually used for drainage and decompression, not very comfortable to keep in long term. is it oki if i message u directly?