Discussion Afterlife (and related) general discussion

[Are you lost too?]

I do but I have no evidence for it. I want there to be something more because I feel like I wasn't meant for this world and hope I can find my place elsewhere. I am so scared of nothingness or a hell or just being trapped somewhere. Trying to comprehend not experiencing anything scares me a lot too.

I understood :)

Wouldn't not experiencing anything be just like sleeping?

 

[Asta]

bpdme & Are you lost too - A lot of interesting information here: https://www.newtoninstitute.org/

 

[ManWithNoName]

wow people really cant accept the fact there is nothing after death huh?

What's it to you what anyone believes in after death?

 

[Essence]

Way I see it - a) we are 99% made up of atoms. Everything that exists is made up of atoms. Atoms are essentially energy. Energy can not be created nor destroyed. b) There is scientific evidence showing energy activity in the human brain after being clinically dead for minutes. However, this study revealed not 'all' patients displayed this activity after death. We are the only living thing ( that we know of ) that has a consciousness. No other species on this planet has one. This means we are self aware. Science has proven that atoms move in perfect unison with each other, even if they are miles apart. " Strange as it may sound, interference can only occur when no one is watching. Once an observer begins to watch the particles going through the openings, the picture changes dramatically: if a particle can be seen going through one opening, then it's clear it didn't go through another. In other words, when under observation, electrons are being "forced" to behave like particles and not like waves. Thus the mere act of observation affects the experimental findings". The ol' 'Cat in the Box' experiment. Basically explained - A cat is placed in a box with poison. The box is closed. Does the cat eat the poison and die? No one knows UNLESS they 'observe' it. Observing atoms changes their behavior. Fascinating. I find Quantum Physics/Mechanics to be extremely interesting.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Way I see it - a) we are 99% made up of atoms. Everything that exists is made up of atoms. Atoms are essentially energy. Energy can not be created nor destroyed. b) There is scientific evidence showing energy activity in the human brain after being clinically dead for minutes. However, this study revealed not 'all' patients displayed this activity after death. We are the only living thing ( that we know of ) that has a consciousness. No other species on this planet has one. This means we are self aware. Science has proven that atoms move in perfect unison with each other, even if they are miles apart. " Strange as it may sound, interference can only occur when no one is watching. Once an observer begins to watch the particles going through the openings, the picture changes dramatically: if a particle can be seen going through one opening, then it's clear it didn't go through another. In other words, when under observation, electrons are being "forced" to behave like particles and not like waves. Thus the mere act of observation affects the experimental findings". The ol' 'Cat in the Box' experiment. Basically explained - A cat is placed in a box with poison. The box is closed. Does the cat eat the poison and die? No one knows UNLESS they 'observe' it. Observing atoms changes their behavior. Fascinating. I find Quantum Physics/Mechanics to be extremely interesting.

What is the 1% other part? I agree that energy cannot be destroyed, but I would assume there has to be some kind of 'order' for consciousness to exist.

That said though, I think the strongest anecdotal argument of the possibility of life after death lies in the paranormal phenomeno—i.e. ghosts—but one has to personally have experienced ghost like phenomena (a genuine experience) to be convinced.

 

[JoeFailure]

The facts are the facts don't hate me for them.

How do you "know" that to be a fact?

 

[Ambie]

wow people really cant accept the fact there is nothing after death huh? So sad but in all honesty it doesn't really matter eventually since you are all so curious your answers will come soon or enough.

Um that's not a fact, that's your personal belief. Nobody knows what happens after death

 

[toomuchgrief]

What do I think of the afterlife, here this article below sum it up. This man died twice, and this is what he says, I agreed 100%

What is it like to be dead? Patient who ‘died’ says there is NOTHING

“Just black emptiness. No thoughts, no consciousness, nothing.” That is the view of the afterlife from a man who has ‘died’ in hospital TWICE.

www.express.co.uk

And regarding energy, this, and I believe in these people answer.

[[ You're displaying a lack of understanding of energy at even a basic level. When we die the energy in our body is preserved. It can be transferred to the environment through decomposition and heat, or to animals that may eat our flesh, etc. No magic is necessary.

Does your argument mean that there is an afterlife for all animals that need to transfer their energy after death, or that energy was magically created when a new person is born? Those are rhetorical.

When you die, that's the end of the road. You are either tossed in a whole and will eventually be eaten by worms, or you are cremated. Dead = dead, no fantasy world after that.

One thing you will notice about life and existence through out the universe is that EVERYTHING get's recycled. We will have no knowledge of this existence or others as our atoms are redistributed about the ecology, the environment, the solar system, etc.. We are truly just children of the Sun and not The Son. ]]

 

[Essence]

What is the 1% other part? I agree that energy cannot be destroyed, but I would assume there has to be some kind of 'order' for consciousness to exist.

That said though, I think the strongest anecdotal argument of the possibility of life after death lies in the paranormal phenomeno—i.e. ghosts—but one has to personally have experienced ghost like phenomena (a genuine experience) to be convinced.

Well in a nutshell we are actually 99.99999% empty space. But that's a very basic way of describing it. This means that if you were to enlarge an atom to the size of a watermelon or football, the atom's electrons and nucleus would be too small to detect with the naked human eye. Atoms never actually touch, yet when you touch a desk or a human or an animal or a ball, they feel solid, yet what they are made of, atoms ...that never actually touch. If we are empty space, we should be able to walk through a wall right? Yeah naa. ......" This means that if you were to walk through a wall, two electrons (yours and the wall's) would have to co-exist in the same space, albeit for a very, very short space of time. But, as per the Pauli Exclusion Principle, this is just not possible. Therefore, despite the fact that we are almost entirely empty space (a mind-boggling fact in itself), we cannot walk through walls – or any other solid material for that matter". I am not sure anyone knows why consciousness exists only to the human. Certainly one ponders, why us? Why not all living things? What's the point of it? I hate it. It allows emotions, it allows us to dwell, or regret, or remember and be happy or sad. It prevents us from living in the moment. It has created a world of so many atrocities, towards humans and animals. I struggle to see the point in the human existing? due to the corruption that seems to keep growing on this planet. Re the paranormal, agreed. I feel it needs to be seen to be believed with my own eyeballs. So much can be faked out there now, with technology etc.

What do I think of the afterlife, here this article below sum it up. This man died twice, and this is what he says, I agreed 100%

What is it like to be dead? Patient who ‘died’ says there is NOTHING

“Just black emptiness. No thoughts, no consciousness, nothing.” That is the view of the afterlife from a man who has ‘died’ in hospital TWICE.

www.express.co.uk

And regarding energy, this, and I believe in these people answer.

[[ You're displaying a lack of understanding of energy at even a basic level. When we die the energy in our body is preserved. It can be transferred to the environment through decomposition and heat, or to animals that may eat our flesh, etc. No magic is necessary.

Does your argument mean that there is an afterlife for all animals that need to transfer their energy after death, or that energy was magically created when a new person is born? Those are rhetorical.

When you die, that's the end of the road. You are either tossed in a whole and will eventually be eaten by worms, or you are cremated. Dead = dead, no fantasy world after that.

One thing you will notice about life and existence through out the universe is that EVERYTHING get's recycled. We will have no knowledge of this existence or others as our atoms are redistributed about the ecology, the environment, the solar system, etc.. We are truly just children of the Sun and not The Son. ]]

Perhaps, but I feel the sticking point is the consciousness part. What is it at it's fundamental level? Why us? Why not all species? On a scientific level yes, energy is transformed and moved around. But what of our conscious mind?

 

[ManWithNoName]

The facts are the facts don't hate me for them.

I didn't question anything about facts, I simply asked you what's it to you what people believe in?

Well in a nutshell we are actually 99.99999% empty space. But that's a very basic way of describing it. This means that if you were to enlarge an atom to the size of a watermelon or football, the atom's electrons and nucleus would be too small to detect with the naked human eye. Atoms never actually touch, yet when you touch a desk or a human or an animal or a ball, they feel solid, yet what they are made of, atoms ...that never actually touch. If we are empty space, we should be able to walk through a wall right? Yeah naa. ......" This means that if you were to walk through a wall, two electrons (yours and the wall's) would have to co-exist in the same space, albeit for a very, very short space of time. But, as per the Pauli Exclusion Principle, this is just not possible. Therefore, despite the fact that we are almost entirely empty space (a mind-boggling fact in itself), we cannot walk through walls – or any other solid material for that matter". I am not sure anyone knows why consciousness exists only to the human. Certainly one ponders, why us? Why not all living things? What's the point of it? I hate it. It allows emotions, it allows us to dwell, or regret, or remember and be happy or sad. It prevents us from living in the moment. It has created a world of so many atrocities, towards humans and animals. I struggle to see the point in the human existing? due to the corruption that seems to keep growing on this planet. Re the paranormal, agreed. I feel it needs to be seen to be believed with my own eyeballs. So much can be faked out there now, with technology etc.

Perhaps, but I feel the sticking point is the consciousness part. What is it at it's fundamental level? Why us? Why not all species? On a scientific level yes, energy is transformed and moved around. But what of our conscious mind?

Good points raised - for each assertion made by every physicist, more questions get raised, thus proving that we know very little about the universe, life, and reality as we know it as also indicated by the presence of the paranormal—i.e. 'ghosts'.

 

[Essence]

I didn't question anything about facts, I simply asked you what's it to you what people believe in?

Good points raised - for each assertion made by every physicist, more questions get raised, thus proving that we know very little about the universe, life, and reality as we know it as also indicated by the presence of the paranormal—i.e. 'ghosts'.

`Yeah, and then there is the simulation theory. The Matrix. That perhaps everything we see, we are viewing with blinkers on, so to speak. Tunnel vision. We only see what our 5 senses allow us to see here on this planet. Drawn to music, as possibly everything we see and do, is energy waves. Vibrations. Then there is the moon......

 

[Lisa]

What is the 1% other part? I agree that energy cannot be destroyed, but I would assume there has to be some kind of 'order' for consciousness to exist.

That said though, I think the strongest anecdotal argument of the possibility of life after death lies in the paranormal phenomeno—i.e. ghosts—but one has to personally have experienced ghost like phenomena (a genuine experience) to be convinced.

Totally agree. I've had a couple of experiences myself. If you have too and would like to share just message me i would like to hear it

 

[ManWithNoName]

Totally agree. I've had a couple of experiences myself. If you have too and would like to share just message me i would like to hear it

Ok—sounds good.

There are a lot of hoax videos and photos of the paranormal out there, but when one experiences something personally it is indeed more profound.

Would be interesting if there was a pinned thread here at SS for paranormal.

 

[wuumb]

For the proof-fetishists there is itc. Maggy and Jules Harsch-Fischbach received phenomenal material.
But here Courtney Brown has something to say about this:
(Senkowski said (not his exact words), that a proof is someone showing something to somebody.
But somebody can only see something when this someone wants to see.)

 

[KiraLittleOwl]

I think that there's a possibility that we (more like our copy) can experience consciousness again (think of theory of many worlds, looped time, etc.) BUT we won't be aware that we lived before.
So essentially it doesn't matter.
There's no way that we die and aware of that... That would be too complicated and human centric. I just don't buy it.

 

[ManWithNoName]

I think that there's a possibility that we (more like our copy) can experience consciousness again (think of theory of many worlds, looped time, etc.) BUT we won't be aware that we lived before.
So essentially it doesn't matter.
There's no way that we die and aware of that... That would be too complicated and human centric. I just don't buy it.

That theory has been proposed too, but it begs the question of how we as 'souls' (for lack of a better description) are supposed to grow without some kind of reference to our past mistakes and behaviors.

 

[CuriousAboutThis]

Out of personal preference the only afterlife system I appreciate the most without bias, prejudices, and phobias from myself is the Heavens and the Earth or Annihilation and Reincarnation.

 

[SlackJim]

@ManWithNoName About 'how we are supposed to grow as souls' I think (not quite believe) perhaps we experience many lives, some human, possibly some as other beings, and although we may not remember each life, at some point we will have memory of the culmination of life times, and will have learnt an awful lot. every experience is valuable, weather it is suffering, happiness, everything between. Maybe some lifetimes we only exist for a month before dying in pain, and in some way this is a valuable perspective. I went down a rabbit hole of documentaries about reincarnation, specifically kids who remember past lifetimes, if you're interested theres a good one called 'the boy who lived before' about a kid from Scotland who vividly remembered life on a small island. Him and his family go and visit the island and find the house where he lived, supposedly. Its quite interesting, of course you can make your own mind up about what you make of it.

Personally I believe we are souls experiencing many different lives, some on earth, some in other dimensions. I had an experience a few years ago after smoking DMT that instilled this belief (many people will shrug it off because it was drug induced, first hand experience is another thing however). I returned to the place that my soul existed before coming into this human body, and to the place I know I will return to after I die. It felt like waking up from a dream, in every way it was more real than this reality that I am currently in. Imagine knowing this more than you know the sky is blue, that is why I have no doubt. Of course I understand most people would be skeptical without firsthand experience. There is no conceivable reason for the human body to have evolved to be able to experience this, if we are just apes that have come from a purely earth-bound existence, in my opinion.

The experience was equally terrifying and ecstatic. It has made me not afraid of death, though hesitant to end my own life, I think I will regret it afterwards.

Way I see it - a) we are 99% made up of atoms. Everything that exists is made up of atoms. Atoms are essentially energy. Energy can not be created nor destroyed. b) There is scientific evidence showing energy activity in the human brain after being clinically dead for minutes. However, this study revealed not 'all' patients displayed this activity after death. We are the only living thing ( that we know of ) that has a consciousness. No other species on this planet has one. This means we are self aware. Science has proven that atoms move in perfect unison with each other, even if they are miles apart. " Strange as it may sound, interference can only occur when no one is watching. Once an observer begins to watch the particles going through the openings, the picture changes dramatically: if a particle can be seen going through one opening, then it's clear it didn't go through another. In other words, when under observation, electrons are being "forced" to behave like particles and not like waves. Thus the mere act of observation affects the experimental findings". The ol' 'Cat in the Box' experiment. Basically explained - A cat is placed in a box with poison. The box is closed. Does the cat eat the poison and die? No one knows UNLESS they 'observe' it. Observing atoms changes their behavior. Fascinating. I find Quantum Physics/Mechanics to be extremely interesting.

How are you defining consciousness? by being self aware? I saw a video recently of chimps recognising themselves in a mirror, the video said it meant they were self aware, a behaviour that happens in humans by the age of about 2.

 

[Whitewash11235814]

Raymond Moody is probably my fav proponent of reincarnation and the afterlife.

 

[ManWithNoName]

@ManWithNoName About 'how we are supposed to grow as souls' I think (not quite believe) perhaps we experience many lives, some human, possibly some as other beings, and although we may not remember each life, at some point we will have memory of the culmination of life times

I seem to recall when studying psychology for the first time in high school we were focusing on things such as influences that shape personality. It was either one group or one famous psychiatrist that speculated on the notion of archetypes that were innate in each person. The concept of past lives was not mentioned (after all, psychology is a science) but certainly this innate archetypes theory is congruent with living in other dimensions, and adding said experiences cumulatively.

 

[Whitewash11235814]

I seem to recall when studying psychology for the first time in high school we were focusing on things such as influences that shape personality. It was either one group or one famous psychiatrist that speculated on the notion of archetypes that were innate in each person. The concept of past lives was not mentioned (after all, psychology is a science) but certainly this innate archetypes theory is congruent with living in other dimensions, and adding said experiences cumulatively.

Carl Jung? 12 Jungian archetypes?

It's an interesting proposal but one of his weaker ones as far as science is concerned.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Carl Jung? 12 Jungian archetypes?

It's an interesting proposal but one of his weaker ones as far as science is concerned.

It could very well have been Jung - I do remember it was one of the original front runners of early psychology.

 

[Essence]

@ManWithNoName About 'how we are supposed to grow as souls' I think (not quite believe) perhaps we experience many lives, some human, possibly some as other beings, and although we may not remember each life, at some point we will have memory of the culmination of life times, and will have learnt an awful lot. every experience is valuable, weather it is suffering, happiness, everything between. Maybe some lifetimes we only exist for a month before dying in pain, and in some way this is a valuable perspective. I went down a rabbit hole of documentaries about reincarnation, specifically kids who remember past lifetimes, if you're interested theres a good one called 'the boy who lived before' about a kid from Scotland who vividly remembered life on a small island. Him and his family go and visit the island and find the house where he lived, supposedly. Its quite interesting, of course you can make your own mind up about what you make of it.

Personally I believe we are souls experiencing many different lives, some on earth, some in other dimensions. I had an experience a few years ago after smoking DMT that instilled this belief (many people will shrug it off because it was drug induced, first hand experience is another thing however). I returned to the place that my soul existed before coming into this human body, and to the place I know I will return to after I die. It felt like waking up from a dream, in every way it was more real than this reality that I am currently in. Imagine knowing this more than you know the sky is blue, that is why I have no doubt. Of course I understand most people would be skeptical without firsthand experience. There is no conceivable reason for the human body to have evolved to be able to experience this, if we are just apes that have come from a purely earth-bound existence, in my opinion.

The experience was equally terrifying and ecstatic. It has made me not afraid of death, though hesitant to end my own life, I think I will regret it afterwards.


How are you defining consciousness? by being self aware? I saw a video recently of chimps recognising themselves in a mirror, the video said it meant they were self aware, a behaviour that happens in humans by the age of about 2.

Loved that you had this experience and shared it with us @SlackJim! Re consciousness, self aware meaning, we make decisions, we have the ability to think back and forward, we miss things, we pine, we can hold grudges, and regret. Other species live literally in the moment. This is often why people refer to dogs and say ' wow dogs are so happy all of the time, they are so lucky'. They do not have a consciousness, therefore no ability to look forward or back, so they simply literally live in every second. If it's a good moment for them, they behave accordingly, likewise if it were a bad experience. They and every other species, do not hold grudges, or have regret, or sit around pondering all of the mistakes they have made in their life. No, because lack of consciousness prevents this process. They simply behave according to their genetics and how time has shaped their behavior through evolution. We on the other hand, have evolved more and more into this consciousness I feel, more aware than ever, more acceptance of certain things, more questions we chase for the answers. I don't know what it all means, I sure wish I did. I often say it hurts to be a human. It hurts to feel these emotions - but it's because we have a consciousness, that we feel them at all.

 

[ish]

Way I see it - a) we are 99% made up of atoms. Everything that exists is made up of atoms. Atoms are essentially energy. Energy can not be created nor destroyed. b) There is scientific evidence showing energy activity in the human brain after being clinically dead for minutes. However, this study revealed not 'all' patients displayed this activity after death. We are the only living thing ( that we know of ) that has a consciousness. No other species on this planet has one. This means we are self aware. Science has proven that atoms move in perfect unison with each other, even if they are miles apart. " Strange as it may sound, interference can only occur when no one is watching. Once an observer begins to watch the particles going through the openings, the picture changes dramatically: if a particle can be seen going through one opening, then it's clear it didn't go through another. In other words, when under observation, electrons are being "forced" to behave like particles and not like waves. Thus the mere act of observation affects the experimental findings". The ol' 'Cat in the Box' experiment. Basically explained - A cat is placed in a box with poison. The box is closed. Does the cat eat the poison and die? No one knows UNLESS they 'observe' it. Observing atoms changes their behavior. Fascinating. I find Quantum Physics/Mechanics to be extremely interesting.

There is a fundamental difference between a photon and an electron.
A photon has the characteristics of a particle and an electromagnetic wave.
In quantum physics is the quantum of the electromagnetic field.

Electron, a permanent elementary particle (lepton), one of the elements of an atom.
The electron has an electric charge equal to e = −1.602 176 6208 (98) × 10−19 C (negative elementary electric charge - hence the name negaton) and the resting mass me ≈ 9,109 382 91 × 10−31 kg.

 

[Lisa]

Ok—sounds good.

There are a lot of hoax videos and photos of the paranormal out there, but when one experiences something personally it is indeed more profound.

Would be interesting if there was a pinned thread here at SS for paranormal.

That's a good idea let's do it

Ps. I didn't get a private message from you I don't think maybe you changed your mind ?

@ManWithNoName About 'how we are supposed to grow as souls' I think (not quite believe) perhaps we experience many lives, some human, possibly some as other beings, and although we may not remember each life, at some point we will have memory of the culmination of life times, and will have learnt an awful lot. every experience is valuable, weather it is suffering, happiness, everything between. Maybe some lifetimes we only exist for a month before dying in pain, and in some way this is a valuable perspective. I went down a rabbit hole of documentaries about reincarnation, specifically kids who remember past lifetimes, if you're interested theres a good one called 'the boy who lived before' about a kid from Scotland who vividly remembered life on a small island. Him and his family go and visit the island and find the house where he lived, supposedly. Its quite interesting, of course you can make your own mind up about what you make of it.

Personally I believe we are souls experiencing many different lives, some on earth, some in other dimensions. I had an experience a few years ago after smoking DMT that instilled this belief (many people will shrug it off because it was drug induced, first hand experience is another thing however). I returned to the place that my soul existed before coming into this human body, and to the place I know I will return to after I die. It felt like waking up from a dream, in every way it was more real than this reality that I am currently in. Imagine knowing this more than you know the sky is blue, that is why I have no doubt. Of course I understand most people would be skeptical without firsthand experience. There is no conceivable reason for the human body to have evolved to be able to experience this, if we are just apes that have come from a purely earth-bound existence, in my opinion.

The experience was equally terrifying and ecstatic. It has made me not afraid of death, though hesitant to end my own life, I think I will regret it afterwards.


How are you defining consciousness? by being self aware? I saw a video recently of chimps recognising themselves in a mirror, the video said it meant they were self aware, a behaviour that happens in humans by the age of about 2.

Can you share what it was like? Do you know if we will have bodies when we go? When I was young I would go out of body so I know it's more real. But I don't know about the body part after death

 

[Meretlein]

I wish there was something more but I don't think there is. It's only human to long for meaning and to want to live on.

I went under anesthesia a few times. There was no sense of time, no awareness, and no sense of self. One million years could have passed and I would have never known. The benzodiazepine midazolam has been known to restore consciousness to people in a minimally conscious state. Brain damage will really change who a person is. It just seems like consciousness is wholly dependent on the brain. The scariest thing about this is I will never know if my suicide succeeded or not.

 

[Qdv]

This might be far fetched...but I wonder...if anyone here has asked those theyve become close with on the forum to attempt to contact them in some form or fashion...to confirm if theres an afterlife. As funny or silly as it sounds I had that thought today at work and am as genuinely curious as we all seem to be. This seems like the perfect resource to experiment with that no? Like give someone very specific instructions to indicate the ability to communicate or make contact. Just an interesting thought :)

 

[Essence]

I wish there was something more but I don't think there is. It's only human to long for meaning and to want to live on.

I went under anesthesia a few times. There was no sense of time, no awareness, and no sense of self. One million years could have passed and I would have never known. The benzodiazepine midazolam has been known to restore consciousness to people in a minimally conscious state. Brain damage will really change who a person is. It just seems like consciousness is wholly dependent on the brain. The scariest thing about this is I will never know if my suicide succeeded or not.

Perhaps however, being under anesthesia is not the same as not being alive.

 

[JoeFailure]

This might be far fetched...but I wonder...if anyone here has asked those theyve become close with on the forum to attempt to contact them in some form or fashion...to confirm if theres an afterlife. As funny or silly as it sounds I had that thought today at work and am as genuinely curious as we all seem to be. This seems like the perfect resource to experiment with that no? Like give someone very specific instructions to indicate the ability to communicate or make contact. Just an interesting thought :)

I have. I've even asked people to haunt me even if it scares the shit out of me. Nothing yet unfortunately.

But even if there is an afterlife, who knows if that kind of thing is even possible.

 

[toomuchgrief]

My favorite debate video on afterlife. And Dr. Moody is in this debate too. It a great watch.
Watch it and you will see the audience poll vote, which side will win the debate.