deflagrat

deflagrat

¡Si hablas español mándame un mensaje privado!
Apr 9, 2018
360
I used to be like you, but think about it: The afterlife could be similar to this world, or worse. Do you really want to keep suffering just to get a few moments of bliss? Making me go through hardships is against my wishes. Are they going to give you a good position in their ranks? No. Look at the shit they gave you. It's never going to be better. You are never going to be an alien with 10k IQ living forever. And even if that happens, you will still die eventually and you will suffer in the next life or form. Pain never goes away, it's always in the corner, waiting.

Chances are you are better off dead. At least that's what I tell myself.
 
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RM5998

RM5998

Sack of Meat
Sep 3, 2018
2,202
Welp, this answer seems to cover a lot of interesting philosophical ground.

Firstly, the answer to the question - if there is a way that I can be brought into a world where I don't despise myself and have a chance at the companionship my mind desires and is denied, sign me up.

About the consciousness issue, I'd see it as an emergent property. Most artificial neural networks with hidden layers tend to show a form of structural top-down logic emerging merely from being fed data, and from what research exists on this topic, it seems that the human brain is similar. The consciousness isn't a part of me, it's the result of the cognitive structure that is me being able to contemplate itself.

About the moving of consciousness - yes, you cannot 'move' your consciousness the way you move luggage from one part of the world to another - it's more in the vein of moving files from one drive to another (the separate drive part is important because moving within the same drive will only cause the path value to change - the physical location in terms of sectors on the drive does not change). When you move files from one drive to another, the file gets copied over, and then the original gets deleted. Only the file descriptor changes.

So yes, @weedoge is right that your consciousness cannot be transferred, since the unique entity that is you is bound to remain stuck to this world. However, I don't think that there's much of a difference between an identical copy of me living in a virtual world (probably possible), and my mental structure being moved over to the virtual world (most likely impossible). The only difference between our brains and a Python program that classifies images is that we have self-awareness. In terms of the end result, it doesn't make much of a difference if it's the original program that's being used, or an identical copy on a different drive - even though they may have different data after creation, they are fundamentally the same thing. Here again, we can see the seeds of value of experience being present - if one of the copies is to be trashed, the particular instance's experience and graph is lost, but the concept of the entity is not. And destroying either is equally damaging.

And here comes the kicker - there's no value difference between the original and the copy. Destroying the original me is the same as destroying the copy (Prestige flashbacks intensify). And just like the concept of the program (minus the graph of experience it has built up) does not die with the deletion of the original program, the concept of my personhood won't die when my original body does, if there is a copy present.

However, I'd like to counter @weedoge's statement that there's nothing about the human consciousness that is extraordinary. The sheer complexity of the structure of the human brain is worth noting, as is the idea that most of the complex structures that we use to understand the world are creations of this brain. It can find order in chaos to a surprising extent, and part of that comes from the ability to contemplate the abstract. I'd say that the human brain is special, since it can find structure in what it explicitly calls chaos.

Wew, that was a long answer.
 
deflagrat

deflagrat

¡Si hablas español mándame un mensaje privado!
Apr 9, 2018
360
Welp, this answer seems to cover a lot of interesting philosophical ground.

Firstly, the answer to the question - if there is a way that I can be brought into a world where I don't despise myself and have a chance at the companionship my mind desires and is denied, sign me up.

About the consciousness issue, I'd see it as an emergent property. Most artificial neural networks with hidden layers tend to show a form of structural top-down logic emerging merely from being fed data, and from what research exists on this topic, it seems that the human brain is similar. The consciousness isn't a part of me, it's the result of the cognitive structure that is me being able to contemplate itself.

About the moving of consciousness - yes, you cannot 'move' your consciousness the way you move luggage from one part of the world to another - it's more in the vein of moving files from one drive to another (the separate drive part is important because moving within the same drive will only cause the path value to change - the physical location in terms of sectors on the drive does not change). When you move files from one drive to another, the file gets copied over, and then the original gets deleted. Only the file descriptor changes.

So yes, @weedoge is right that your consciousness cannot be transferred, since the unique entity that is you is bound to remain stuck to this world. However, I don't think that there's much of a difference between an identical copy of me living in a virtual world (probably possible), and my mental structure being moved over to the virtual world (most likely impossible). The only difference between our brains and a Python program that classifies images is that we have self-awareness. In terms of the end result, it doesn't make much of a difference if it's the original program that's being used, or an identical copy on a different drive - even though they may have different data after creation, they are fundamentally the same thing. Here again, we can see the seeds of value of experience being present - if one of the copies is to be trashed, the particular instance's experience and graph is lost, but the concept of the entity is not. And destroying either is equally damaging.

And here comes the kicker - there's no value difference between the original and the copy. Destroying the original me is the same as destroying the copy (Prestige flashbacks intensify). And just like the concept of the program (minus the graph of experience it has built up) does not die with the deletion of the original program, the concept of my personhood won't die when my original body does, if there is a copy present.

However, I'd like to counter @weedoge's statement that there's nothing about the human consciousness that is extraordinary. The sheer complexity of the structure of the human brain is worth noting, as is the idea that most of the complex structures that we use to understand the world are creations of this brain. It can find order in chaos to a surprising extent, and part of that comes from the ability to contemplate the abstract. I'd say that the human brain is special, since it can find structure in what it explicitly calls chaos.

Wew, that was a long answer.
But you are talking about people not software. If there is a copy of you it's a clone, you are still dead. It's a different person with the same body. I would never agree with you on this. It has to be the exact same brain, not the exact same content.
 
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PatKat

PatKat

Meh
Aug 9, 2018
1,025
Am I the only one here who hopes that after ctb I'll wake up in another dimension? I want this so bad, another chance. In a world where everything is perfect and life is actually enjoyable. I mean If the universe is infinite why can't every possibility play out, why wouldn't everything that can exist, exist somewhere? Is a soul really something scientifically impossible? Can't consciousness be like a radio signal for the brain? I'm afraid of dissipating, I feel like I have a profound essence that must have some importance and must always be at all costs. This inner world of mine, I don't want it to end. The only thing that I want to see ending is the outside world.
I think that happened to me in both my attempts. It is a little worse each time it feels though...
 
RM5998

RM5998

Sack of Meat
Sep 3, 2018
2,202
But you are talking about people not software. If there is a copy of you it's a clone, you are still dead. It's a different person with the same body. I would never agree with you on this. It has to be the exact same brain, not the exact same content.

That's the crux of my point - there's no difference between people and software.
 
D

dreamofme

Member
Sep 10, 2018
70
What happens after death is like what's after the event horizon of a black hole. No one still alive can tell you. Maybe like Elon musk and others say we live in a simulation, it fades to black, you wake up in another dimension playing a oculus rift 3000, Heaven, hell. We may never ever have the brain power to comprehend what is after death. That's why weather you're an atheists or religious or anything in between you haven't been proven right. But you also have not been proven wrong. My opinion believe what ever you want. If it turns out different deal with it as it comes.
 
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deflagrat

deflagrat

¡Si hablas español mándame un mensaje privado!
Apr 9, 2018
360
That's the crux of my point - there's no difference between people and software.
You are comparing people with software, I have to disagree. As a human, I see people as special (and animals), I shouldn't need to explain you why...

Our future robotic overlords will be pleased.
 
RM5998

RM5998

Sack of Meat
Sep 3, 2018
2,202
As a human, I see people as special (and animals), I shouldn't need to explain you why...

Actually, I don't understand why. A biological system is an assemblage of materials and instructions in roughly the same fashion as a computer. They are made of different things, yes, but they have the same kind of programmatic behavior.

That was why I was referring to ANNs. They have roughly the same structure as the brain, and the same way of functioning. So why not view them in the same way, as emergent phenomena from physical assemblies? Why do we attach so much value to our physical existence?
 
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weedoge

weedoge

Banned
Jul 12, 2018
1,525
Welp, this answer seems to cover a lot of interesting philosophical ground.

Firstly, the answer to the question - if there is a way that I can be brought into a world where I don't despise myself and have a chance at the companionship my mind desires and is denied, sign me up.

About the consciousness issue, I'd see it as an emergent property. Most artificial neural networks with hidden layers tend to show a form of structural top-down logic emerging merely from being fed data, and from what research exists on this topic, it seems that the human brain is similar. The consciousness isn't a part of me, it's the result of the cognitive structure that is me being able to contemplate itself.

About the moving of consciousness - yes, you cannot 'move' your consciousness the way you move luggage from one part of the world to another - it's more in the vein of moving files from one drive to another (the separate drive part is important because moving within the same drive will only cause the path value to change - the physical location in terms of sectors on the drive does not change). When you move files from one drive to another, the file gets copied over, and then the original gets deleted. Only the file descriptor changes.

So yes, @weedoge is right that your consciousness cannot be transferred, since the unique entity that is you is bound to remain stuck to this world. However, I don't think that there's much of a difference between an identical copy of me living in a virtual world (probably possible), and my mental structure being moved over to the virtual world (most likely impossible). The only difference between our brains and a Python program that classifies images is that we have self-awareness. In terms of the end result, it doesn't make much of a difference if it's the original program that's being used, or an identical copy on a different drive - even though they may have different data after creation, they are fundamentally the same thing. Here again, we can see the seeds of value of experience being present - if one of the copies is to be trashed, the particular instance's experience and graph is lost, but the concept of the entity is not. And destroying either is equally damaging.

And here comes the kicker - there's no value difference between the original and the copy. Destroying the original me is the same as destroying the copy (Prestige flashbacks intensify). And just like the concept of the program (minus the graph of experience it has built up) does not die with the deletion of the original program, the concept of my personhood won't die when my original body does, if there is a copy present.

However, I'd like to counter @weedoge's statement that there's nothing about the human consciousness that is extraordinary. The sheer complexity of the structure of the human brain is worth noting, as is the idea that most of the complex structures that we use to understand the world are creations of this brain. It can find order in chaos to a surprising extent, and part of that comes from the ability to contemplate the abstract. I'd say that the human brain is special, since it can find structure in what it explicitly calls chaos.

Wew, that was a long answer.
I suppose I was a bit harsh, but I wonder more at the universe around us than humans I think. I don't like us very much lol :(

but it was a good response, I pretty much agree with you
 
RM5998

RM5998

Sack of Meat
Sep 3, 2018
2,202
I suppose I was a bit harsh, but I wonder more at the universe around us than humans I think. I don't like us very much lol :(

Yeah, I can totally understand the sentiment. My interest in people is totally from the perspective of their similarities to ANNs, and the scope for improvement in human and artificial cognitive structures. But I do find the surrounding universe to be a grander mystery on a wholly different scale, and possessing an almost mystical quality. It's strangely mysterious and beautiful.
 
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R

Rebirth

Member
Jun 20, 2018
68
I wish for this so badly, assuming that I wouldn't have to endure the same fate with only a minor difference, hence my name. The subreddit glitch in the matrix has been much of a fantastical getaway for me.
 
G

GeorgeEastman

Arcanist
Sep 3, 2018
470
No. You can make life anything you want to make it.

All I seem to want now is to just make it go away.
 
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RM5998

RM5998

Sack of Meat
Sep 3, 2018
2,202
You can make life anything you want to make it.

All I seem to want now is to just make it go away.

This needs to be put on a t-shirt. With your permission, I'm using this when with the people I know.
 
nzdarkshark

nzdarkshark

The Loved Mistake
Sep 4, 2018
400
Am I the only one here who hopes that after ctb I'll wake up in another dimension? I want this so bad, another chance. In a world where everything is perfect and life is actually enjoyable. I mean If the universe is infinite why can't every possibility play out, why wouldn't everything that can exist, exist somewhere? Is a soul really something scientifically impossible? Can't consciousness be like a radio signal for the brain? I'm afraid of dissipating, I feel like I have a profound essence that must have some importance and must always be at all costs. This inner world of mine, I don't want it to end. The only thing that I want to see ending is the outside world.
Part of me hopes I'll become one with the universe.
Weird I know - but I'm a spiritual person.
 
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