Addressing Rep. Dawn Keefer's new law and the Recent Statements made about this Forum in the Media

[M]

There has been a new wave of news stories going around regarding HB1827, also known as Shawn's Law. There have also been new statements going around that I would like to address. I would like to address these two topics today with the community and to any outsider that is reading this. It has been a rough week for myself and I'm sure it has been one for all of you too.

It seems like the local media in York and in surrounding areas still running with the same story that Shawn was encouraged and pushed over the edge by members of this forum. That claim is completely false. I have checked every thread that Shawn posted, there was no encouraging of suicide from anyone on this forum by our definition nor legal definition. The rules on encouraging suicide on this forum are very clear. We do not allow any member to encourage someone else to commit suicide or any other illegal acts. This has always been a rule, but it was updated recently to clearly designate that we don't tolerate encouraging other people to commit illegal acts either. It is saddening to see that the same false narrative is being pushed without any sort of proof. We will be going through all media coverage regarding this website and we will be asking the relevant news agencies to retract or modify their statements. If they fail to do so, we will be considering our legal options against the news agencies that fail to retract or correct their reporting.

Many of these news articles are still falsely claiming that encouragement happened and they are stating that as a FACT, not as an opinion. I and many others on this forum have seen the same posts that Shawn's mother refers to and they are not posts of encouragement. I have avoided trying to address this for many months as I want the community to move past this. The media coverage and incompetent actions of lawmakers and law enforcement have made many members of this forum paranoid and scared. I'm going to do my best to rectify this so that we can move past this.

I want to now address the lawmaker behind this law: PA State Representative Dawn Keefer. I want to know how extending sentences for aiding, encouraging, or assisting suicide is going to help anyone? We know that sending a person to a building where they have to sit behind bars for years on end for saying words that they might have not even known was a crime is harsh. It doesn't solve the underlying issue at all. This is the problem with politicians these days. No matter what your political leanings are; I think we can agree that this new law will not solve anything. The lawmaker wrote an opinion piece regarding this situation. I'm going to take this time to address the opinion piece.

Rep. Dawn Keefer, you have been presented with deceit, lies, and falsehoods. No one on this forum encouraged Shawn Shatto to kill herself. That is a fact. Forum posts and threads and the replies on those threads are proof of that. For you to continue to say that she was encouraged to do kill herself is beyond disgusting and dishonest. She makes a parallel between Michelle Carter's case and Shawn Shatto's case. Both cases are very different and are not comparable. There wasn't a soul actively coaching Shawn to kill herself. From the information that is available, evidence suggests that she decided to go through with this herself with little outside help. Users share guides on here regarding different methods, but those guides are provided by other members.

"Shawn did so and then contacted the website, saying she was terrified. At least one person on the forum gave her reassuring words that suicide was the best route"

This is incorrect. Shawn made a thread on the website saying she was terrified, but the replies on the thread were well wishes. There's nothing there resembling or even insinuating that suicide was the best route. The only thing I could see on the thread is well wishes to Shawn and discussion about the Goodbye Thread bans policy implemented shortly before this occurred.

"It is absolutely appalling people are willing to not only provide a recipe for death, but also to encourage someone to commit suicide. I cannot fathom the mindset of these people who nonchalantly dole out this kind of information and push someone already dealing with depression and anxiety toward such an irreversible outcome."

It seems like you don't fully grasp the concept of the first amendment and the purpose of it. The purpose of the first amendment gives us the right to express our opinions. A free society depends on the free exchange of ideas to push new ideas. Without freedom of speech, forums like this and many other websites including most social media websites wouldn't exist. As a representative, you should know this. You can use sophisticated words to try to mask the fact that you're against the first amendment, but that's not helping anyone at all.

"I don't believe these penalties are harsh enough. People who guide or encourage others to kill themselves are committing murder by proxy. Our justice system must be given more tools in the form of harsher sentences to combat this evil."

No one on this forum guided or encouraged Shawn to kill herself; She made that decision on her own according to the evidence that I have seen. The "murder by proxy" line is one of the most disgusting things that I have heard come out of a politicians mouth. Giving longer sentences for this crime does nothing for anyone at all. This doesn't give assistance to those that feel that the current system fails them.

This is why people come to our forum. We offer a support community for those that feel that the system has completely failed them and the system has failed them and many others too. Mental health is something that needs more focus and care in our country. Hauling people off to mental facilities and forcing medicine down people's throats isn't solving this issue.

This lawmaker feels like she doing a moral good without seeing the whole issue at hand. This is an extremely shortsighted law that will not do anything to help those that actually are suffering. This is just more proof that our lawmakers don't care about the underlying issues that would cause someone to commit suicide. They only care about advancing their political image and making money.

They especially don't care about the right-to-die either. Giving people that choice and a way out of this world is something that would benefit everyone and it puts the individual in total control of their own life. We didn't decide to come into this world. I think we should let people have a choice whether they want to live or not.

That is all that I wanted to address in her article. If you wish to read it for full context, I posted a link to it above.

I want to end this thread on one point. This community was made as a place where people can freely speak about their issues without having to worry about being "saved" or giving empty platitudes. It can be argued that this community have saved lots of lives. Many that come here decide not to kill themselves and they become apart of our community. They will ignore this fact because they don't want this place to exist at all. If people have issues, they want people to go through the broken medical system that we have in place and take happy pills and shut up. We will keep this place running for years to come and we will do everything in our power to make sure that this website continues to stay up for our members' sake.

I do encourage you all to contact Rep. Dawn Keefer to voice your opinion about the new law she's proposing especially if you live in her district or in the state of Pennsylvania. You can click here to do so.

Sincerely,
Marquis

 

[SinisterKid]

Am I crazy or delusional? Not according to my local mental health team and their psychiatrists, I am stable. Yet here I am, a part of this community because it is all about choice. Not living, not dying, but CHOICE. In my time here and I am here most days at some point, I have not seen one member actively encourage another member to take their own life.

Long may this forum continue to be a place where we can meet without fear and openly discuss the issues we face in our daily lives and some of the possible solutions to those issues, whatever they may or may not be.

Thanks guys for the great job you do here and for giving us a place to feel safe that the real world so frequently denies us.

 

[2211264]

What was her username?, if You dont mind posting?
If you dont want to thats ok.
Or Pm me if thats ok?
I just wanted to read it

 

[M]

What was her username?, if You dont mind posting?
If you dont want to thats ok.
Or Pm me if thats ok?
I just wanted to read it

Her username is Kakabushi but most posts were deleted.

 

[Shamana]

I think the view of outsiders/pro-lifers is that if someone is actively sharing how they are planning to end their life not trying to dissaude them is same as encouragment or passive encouragement if you understand what I mean.

 

[sanction]

This forum/ community is doing more positive than negative in the end, however also not surprised those who don't "understand" will always find a way to be against it. We all came to this forum by personal choice, and weren't forced to. In the end, none of us ever asked to come to this world at the end of the day. So after many years and decades of trying, daily struggles and reasonable suffering... one finally has a genuine desire to end one's own existence should be a reasonable option, especially when we are already of legal age. I'm pretty sure Shawn who originally posted on here, was not mentioning things like she was struggling, but still really wants to live and has absolutely no desire to end her life, yet everyone was suggesting she was wrong and should just give up and instead was encouraged to end her life. She probably made it clear she doesn't want to live anymore, so the community instead offered her an alternative type of support and suggestions, since we are all on the same boat and feeling the same, so we understand her pain, so instead tried to give her the best tips we can offer, so that her final moments will at least be as safe and peaceful as possible. After-all, ending one's own existence, under our own terms, is simply the very last personal right and choice that one should be entitled to, but governments are still even wanting to control this and take this very last personal right away, which is why surviving in this society is so stressful, thus is one of the reasons we are also wanting to end it. Society has made it so difficult and awkward to be able to deal with this type of stuff more normally and openly, so most of the time we have little options left but to instead turn to a more organized forum and community like this to rant, find support, and connect with like-minded individuals. This forum is similar to some cities providing "safe injecting sites" to drug addicts, where they supply proper and clean equipment for addicts to safely inject, under proper supervision, to decrease unnecessary overdosing and disease spreading versus when done in unsupervised locations like streets and alleys. Just like how this forum is providing a place for like-minded people to connect and share their experiences. I can only imagine without a community like this, most people will end up using the wrong methods and instead harm themselves the wrong way, and overall increase the chances of people becoming permanently disabled or in vegetable state, which will make matters even worst. At the end of the day, there is no perfect solution, as this is not a perfect world or society, but there needs to at least be a forum/ community like this, to act as an outlet, for us to express ourselves and support each other, during our worst times, when other alternatives have already been exhausted. Most of us here have already tried psychiatrists, medications, suicide hotlines, etc. multiple times but its simply not truly helping us in the end, so we have finally decided to put matters in our own hands with dignity as the final resort. I believe we should be entitled to a community like this as final resort, otherwise one will simply go insane, and instead go on to cause harm or trouble back into the society we live in as a release, and end up affecting others. As long as we use this forum responsibly and in a mature open-minded way, I definitely see this site serving a reasonable purpose

 

[Rachel74]

In the time I've been here I'm been amazed at the empathy shown to others. I came on here to find out where to buy N, I found that out but supporting others as in a way stopped me from wanting to die and I bet a a lot on here will say the same.
She joined this site because she wanted to and she died because she planned it. I can understand as a parent they want someone to blame but her mother needs to look at herself.

 

[Dawn0071111]

I think the view of outsiders/pro-lifers is that if someone is actively sharing how they are planning to end their life not trying to dissaude them is same as encouragment or passive encouragement if you understand what I mean.

I agree and I think this should be one of the main talking points on the issue. Basically the only acceptable response for a suicidal person from the legal point of view is STOP THEM. CALL 911. INTERVENE. They equate anything that is not intervention as assisted & "encouragement." The assumption is, that ANYONE who has a mental illness is not in the frame of mind to think clearly & when they choose or consider suicide, its not treated the same as a rational person making a decision. This argument is not without merit. Would Shawn still be alive if SS was not available to her? Probably not. Sounds like she had her mind, regardless of its state, made up. I can see how this can be a difficult debate from all sides, a parent who lost a child, an online community that prizes autonomy & free speech, politicians who think they are being moral....
If the legal system really cared, though, they would focus on the shitty mental health system rather than some Website Banning Law.... It will never work. Just like ban on alcohol back in the dIay, people who are determined will find a way. We will be demonized for PROVIDING information. Not PROMOTING. Its clear that media lie & spin everything. Its thier job to do so. I would say this community does not encourage or dissuade...
People are upset that there is a place people can go & share about what they are planning on doing with THIER own lives, and we don't attempt to stop them. Hurting people are sick of living under the constant threat of being thrown into a horrible place, force fed poision drugs (all of which carry suicide as a potential side effect) against ones will.
I will say her last post is a bit chilling. For someones last words to be "Im fucking terrfied.." before they CTB, I'm sure did not help this situation, and I imagine this will be a long fight. But yeah, this case and the one of the girl who COAXED the boy who died by C0 by text message is not the same. But they will jyst dump it under one label that says: If you don't report, stop or intervene in ANY mention of suicide- you are an accessory to the crime. Where do we draw the line between illness and choice? Can the wishes of a person with depression be respected?

 

[sanction]

I agree and I think this should be one of the main talking points on the issue. Basically the only acceptable response for a suicidal person from the legal point of view is STOP THEM. CALL 911. INTERVENE. They equate anything that is not intervention as assisted & "encouragement." The assumption is, that ANYONE who has a mental illness is not in the frame of mind to think clearly & when they choose or consider suicide, its not treated the same as a rational person making a decision. This argument is not without merit. Would Shawn still be alive if SS was not available to her? Probably not. Sounds like she had her mind, regardless of its state, made up. I can see how this can be a difficult debate from all sides, a parent who lost a child, an online community that prizes autonomy & free speech, politicians who think they are being moral....
If the legal system really cared, though, they would focus on the shitty mental health system rather than some Website Banning Law.... It will never work. Just like ban on alcohol back in the dIay, people who are determined will find a way. We will be demonized for PROVIDING information. Not PROMOTING. Its clear that media lie & spin everything. Its thier job to do so. I would say this community does not encourage or dissuade...
People are upset that there is a place people can go & share about what they are planning on doing with THIER own lives, and we don't attempt to stop them. Hurting people are sick of living under the constant threat of being thrown into a horrible place, force fed poision drugs (all of which carry suicide as a potential side effect) against ones will.
I will say her last post is a bit chilling. For someones last words to be "Im fucking terrfied.." before they CTB, I'm sure did not help this situation, and I imagine this will be a long fight. But yeah, this case and the one of the girl who COAXED the boy who died by C0 by text message is not the same. But they will jyst dump it under one label that says: If you don't report, stop or intervene in ANY mention of suicide- you are an accessory to the crime. Where do we draw the line between illness and choice? Can the wishes of a person with depression be respected?

Well said. This is the cruel and messed up world we live in. One could be suffering for decades, have no true loved ones or support circle left, dealing with never ending financial stress, dealing with endless mental issues, physical pain, abuse, etc. and etc... and honestly, the end result is the same anyways. We will all become old, sick and die either way, but yet society will simply tell you to still CONTINUE LIVING regardless, and just die the so-called "natural" way instead. Anything other than that is considered wrong. What if I don't want to wait till I have full blown cancer, heart attack, sick and helpless to the point where my regular routine consists of mainly just taking endless medications, therapy, surgeries, hospital visits, and overall a shitty & pointless existence, just to ultimately die in the end anyways?? Especially since I've already been through a ton of other shit as well?? What if I rather take matters in my own hands, so I can at least die under my own terms with dignity?? The answer is always........ NOPE!!! YOU CAN'T!!!! Even if its more comfortable for you to take your own life instead while you are still under control, versus less comfortable if you wait till you are finally old, sick, helpless and instead die in a shittier way.... it is STILL better to die in the less preferred way, against one's own personal choice. Otherwise you are labelled as "crazy". That is the shit we are brainwashed with. We already had no choice being born into this world, yet we have no choice if we want to leave this world. Isn't this a form of torture?? No wonder we want to CTB lol

 

[MAIO]

Well said. This is the cruel and messed up world we live in. One could be suffering for decades, have no true loved ones or support circle left, dealing with never ending financial stress, dealing with endless mental issues, physical pain, abuse, etc. and etc... and honestly, the end result is the same anyways. We will all become old, sick and die either way, but yet society will simply tell you to still CONTINUE LIVING regardless, and just die the so-called "natural" way instead. Anything other than that is considered wrong. What if I don't want to wait till I have full blown cancer, heart attack, sick and helpless to the point where my regular routine consists of mainly just taking endless medications, therapy, surgeries, hospital visits, and overall a shitty & pointless existence, just to ultimately die in the end anyways?? Especially since I've already been through a ton of other shit as well?? What if I rather take matters in my own hands, so I can at least die under my own terms with dignity?? The answer is always........ NOPE!!! YOU CAN'T!!!! Even if its more comfortable for you to take your own life instead while you are still under control, versus less comfortable if you wait till you are finally old, sick, helpless and instead die in a shittier way.... it is STILL better to die in the less preferred way, against one's own personal choice. Otherwise you are labelled as "crazy". That is the shit we are brainwashed with. We already had no choice being born into this world, yet we have no choice if we want to leave this world. Isn't this a form of torture?? No wonder we want to CTB lol

Well said. Suicide is not a crime and authorities need to recognize not everyone who commits suicide is in need to psychiatric intervention. We do not what consciousness, life or death are. Yet these people insist somehow wanting to die to means something is wrong with your brain, something that will happen far longer than life. It's like saying we know Blau is superior to red, to the point it's tragic if you think blau is superior to red. You ask what Blau is, they all vastly disagree on what Blau looks like but generally insist its superior to red. It's insane, there are so many errors in judgment in this thinking. You can also tell they have no idea what they are talking about and their judgment is utterly compromised by emotion. These people can not cope with the concept of death so much that they push their notions of life and death onto you. They make up fanatical fantasies about death, ie their is an all loving God that will bring me into eternal bliss forever and punish whoever doesn't believe in this forevermore Etc.

 

[Darkhaven]

Suicide has always been here and will always be for as long as there is no such thing as perfection both of society and of humans beings, individually speaking.
There will always be a few people, a small drop in the ocean that is humankind, that just can't find meaning and happiness in this life. There isn't much to be done to help these people. A human mind can't be shaped and bent like a piece of steel or a jewel. Not to the point of completely changing the way these people think or experience life, at least.
From personal experience and hearing the cases of other fellow depressed persons, i have no doubt that when someone is affected by a depressive crisis, the chances of it returning at some point later in life are more than high.
Sure, theraphists and psychiatrists can help on the short term but an afflicted person will more than likely suffer from depression sooner or later.
So, this is more of a debate of whether or not let people like us commune together in order to find ways to pass out as peacefully as possible or just live a life full of grief and sadness untill we can't take it anymore and just do the deed using a violent method rather than a debate of how to make us stop thinking about suicide. If this body or my life has nothing more to offer me, why the hell should i keep living it? Do i owe it to someone? I don't think so.
These people will never understand our problems.
They think that saving lives is always the best answer and normally it is, but when someone really wants to die, saving them is not being courageous, it's just sticking your nose on someone else's life, which you are not entitled to.
We should continue to defend this place always following the rules and respecting the laws, and never ever let these people tell us how to live our lives, or what do with them.

 

[marcusuk63]

The three biggest pushers of disinformation that have huge effects on everyone's lives , politics , press and lawyers it is fine for then to KILL people by policy , lies or war .... The Uk government gets £1.26 and hour in taxes off every working person and everything here is dearer than most places in the world yet for 20 years we have had austerity , no money for anything apart from 11% MP`s pay rise and 10`s of millions spent on how they can cut benefits and spending on the poorest , illest and most vulnerable in society yet they are totally unaccountable while we cant say boo to a goose ... George Orwell wasnt an author he was a psychic !

Austerity to blame for 130,000 ‘preventable’ UK deaths – report

Two decades of public health improvements have stalled, says IPPR thinktank

www.theguardian.com

 

[Bathsheba]

Bravo. You just voiced everything I've been thinking for a while. I fully support this site.. it doesn't encourage suicide and never has done. There is space in this world for different opinions and being pro choice is a valid one.

 

[JimFord99]

We always knew that the press releases and statements were either wrong or extremely sexed up. Always someone else to blame. I recall this has been discussed before in another thread, so I am probably repeating what I already said.

 

[Wayfaerer]

Politicians are worthless and are paid far too much for what very little they do.

 

[Thorn]

And this is all it takes for them to shift the blame and avoid responsibility? Persecuting people with mental disabilities for talking to other people with mental disabilities, effectively eliminating them all at once. How nice. Just they could have a problem pointing the finger at that "evil" in question. All it would take is bending a wrist a bit, but instead, you will get this...

 

[Blackjack]

Thank you Marquis & the others for the amazing work you do with this forum. Along those lines, I wanted to encourage all members to consider donating to SS so that they may continue to do this important work here, particularly now that it is under attack.

 

[c824767]

Most people contemplating suicide are too afraid of the methods society cannot shut down easily. (drowning, jumping)
If more people who are not terminally ill were permitted to commit gentle suicide, the world would be a very different place, a place that "they" feel threatened by.
In my opinion the discontent of suicidal individuals is most often a rational reflection on the unbearable conditions which individuals have to endure on this planet day after day. Denying them an exit strategy is cynical. Authors starting in the 19th century, often describing lives of the lower classes (Thomas Hardy etc.) frequently use the suicide of a character to portray defiance, despair, love, or honour. Why can society not accept suicide as a response to an internal condition of intolerable discomfort, a "normal" response ?
Suicidal individuals, instead of being given some credibility about the fact that they consider their living conditions unbearable, are automatically declared mentally ill/depressed often before and definitely after their first failed attempt. Often the medications they are given makes their outlook even more dysmal: to be on debilitating medications for the rest of their lives.
Society stands by cynically while homeless people die, most often from alcohol and street drug related deaths in the streets. The homeless, people who are living in poverty, in slums, people who cannot live a dignified life for whatever reason, how come we cannot extend an option of dignified death to them if they wish for one.
When suicidal individuals feel irreparable discomfort, this can last for decades. Others snap out of it eventually and opt for recovery as documented on this forum. This seems "normal" to me. It is irrational to expect every suicidal person regardless of the situation to strive for recovery. Since about 800.000 people die by suicide every year, and counting 25 attempts for every success, that means there are approximately 200 million attempts every year.
Society is cynical enough to want to exploit individuals, whether they are comfortable or not, as long as possible so they can be "patients" so the doctors get to work on them and get them to buy medication regularly, so they can be "householders" however limited their budgets may be, they still contribute as "consumers"? For some reason, homeless people buy a lot of cigarettes. Suicidal individuals are "taxpayers" and "voters", which society measures as a valuable contribution, where "we" cannot allow taxpayers, voters to simply go away. Malevolent and cynical.

 

[Dantec]

If we are honest with ourselves we can not deny that we sometimes judge someone or place at first glance and stick to a label. We all do it.

In this case it is very different, the prejudices of the mother of Shawn come from the sadness without any doubt, let us grant it that, but what annoys me most at the moment is the intellectual dishonesty which she shows, I quote this one:

"These website members are evil," and "They are murderers who gain joy and satisfaction from the death of others.The people on the website took Shawn's hopes away. But we need to show people who need help that there is hope."

Keefer, family of suicide victim push for bill upping penalties on aiding suicide

A member of an online "pro choice" suicide forum messaged Jackie Bieber asking if he daughter's suicide went smoothly. Now she's advocating for legislation that would ramp up penalties for such individuals.

eu.yorkdispatch.com

1) The prejudice on the forum and SS members, which she demonstrates, based solely on Shawn's messages, and her beliefs, is equivalent to judging a book about her appearance, and her few lines from her back cover.

2) I challenge anyone, to find on this forum a person, only one, whose testimony expresses joy and satisfaction in the death of others on SS, without naming, of course, it is a forum that has been the hot topic of the local press lately, is not it ?

Unlike this low-level press, SS does not make money on the death of its members.

3) I would like to come back to the notion of hope that Shawn's mother claims to defend and incarnate, perhaps we can start with what each of us thinks about this forum, and the well-being of everyone to have discovered a place without judgment on our sufferings, for that, we can only thank SS to exist, so much by the hope that it gives us to be able CTB peacefully, but also by the wealth of the people and testimonys which compose it, thank you to you.

I imagined destiny as cards given to us at birth and our freedom is the way we will play with, if I want to play with the death card it's my choice, and I fuck those who think otherwise.

 

[RedAlert]

I haven't seen any posts urging another user on SS to commit suicide and if there is such a post, i'm sure the mods would be quick to take it down quick time.

Aren't these the same politicians that vote pro-abortion? Surely the child in the mothers womb must have a say if this is the case.

 

[Stan]

Historically the world has always had strong views where a government or governments, popular thinking or education has purported one thing and that was the law. Hundreds of years ago, men of science where executed for heresy because their scientific statements didn't fit that the earth was the centre of the solar system. Someone's ancestor thought slavery was a good thing. Why do women need to vote and have equal status? History is dotted with things that now, in this present we look at in hindsight and say "they didn't think really that?" I truly believe that in time to come, this subject will fall under that category with "they really let people suffer!?"

Regarding this subject, when people take the restrictive blinkers off regarding the 'value of the soul' to the 'value of existence', then a dialogue can start. For me being an atheist I have no soul, so we are already talking about different values. Without agreeing the common ground, and concessions and agreements on definitions being made, the dialogue can't start.

Whilst we have tools and methods to measure the pain the human body has, even knowing that unless you place someone into a chemical driven deep coma, the brain will still interpret pain and as such, so does the individual. However you have made their capability of screaming nul and void which looks like a victory to everyone else bar the victim. Likewise mental health which is infinitely harder to diagnose and treat. How can dosing someone up so much that they become a couch potato be a victory for anyone?

We (pro-choice) have to have dialogue, being talked at is not dialogue, if there is no empathy there is no debate and if there is no solution there will always be conflict in how to address a global problem that is blind to race, gender, age and religion.

 

[RainAndSadness]

Thanks for the post. I'm following this case since May, since Shawn took her own life and I'm aware of the plans of this politician, Dawn Keefer. There have been efforts to make this website illegal for quite some time and this simply can't happen. And it needs to stop. It would be a huge backlash for the right to die community but also for all the people, who received support and help in this forum. This forum is such an important place for so many struggling people and taking this away is the most anti-life, pro-suicide measure I could ever think of. Taking away the support net that this forum is providing to many people would probably end up in more suicides and result in more struggles for people who seek a community, that understand and accepts their suffering, without the empty platitudes that don't help anybody. This forum helps so many struggling people, people who are on the brink of committing suicide and people who have serious struggles in life, that makes them consider it. This website helps people to recover and in some cases, even give life another chance, regardless of the information that is provided about suicide methods - which proves that people make their own autonomous decisions, even when they have access to that information. Which is the whole point of this forum: making your own consensual and informed decision, it's very simple. It doesn't take away from the fact that this forum provides a very important and helpful community for all of us. The intentions of Shawn mother and that politician to take away this place are cruel and selfish. Shawn mother wants to punish this community because of her tragic experience. By doing so, she wants to harm all of us. She ignores the support that this forum has given to thousands of members all over the globe and keeps insulting and smearing us as murders, psychopaths and people who are vile. This couldn't be further from the truth. I've been a member of this forum since 2018. And I know this community. Nobody here encourages suicide. I've never seen a post with such content and I've never talked to a person directly that had the intention of doing that. We respect each other and the decisions we make. Pretty much every person I've talked to so far was very supportive and understanding and more emphatic to my situation than Shawns mother and Dawn Keefer ever could be. This forum has accepted me more than any other community I've ever reached out to.

I know that Shawns mother is gonna read this. She keeps reading our posts because she is consumed by hate and anger towards innocent people who had nothing to do with the passing of her daughter. And I want you to read this very carefully: if you take down this forum, you will push more suffering people into suicide than you could ever imagine. I wonder if you could look into the mirror, after doing all that damage, just to revenge your daughter, for something we didn't do. I know your arguments and they're wrong, as carefully explained by Marquis in the opening post. Nobody here is responsible for the suicide of your daughter. I know this hurts but you need to look for a bogey man elsewhere. That's all I'm gonna say for now.

And we have to keep in mind, Dawn Keefer is a republican and pro-life, she supported anti-abortion measures in the past. This is simply an ideological issue and I don't think we could ever change her mind, no matter how many messages we send her. She has very biased beliefs. She seems to thinks that life is good per default and therefore ending your own life is bad, no matter the circumstances, the reasons and the intentions. This is purely ideological. It's a pro-life stance. There is no amount of arguments and reasons that could change her mind, ever. We have to get our voice out in a different way. We need to tell our story to regular people. We have to tell our story to the media and combat the narrative against places like this, which are currently spreading like wildfire. And we have to fight for our rights in a political way, that means, making sure that people like Dawn Keefer, who apparently want to criminalize suicide and information regarding suicide, don't hold powerful political positions anymore. We have to change society from the inside. And that means we need to spread the message. Our stories, our backgrounds, our struggles. It needs to get out. We can convince people that this place is important because normal people could relate to our situation very easily. People can relate to serious struggles that make life difficult. And they can relate to people who want to escape a life that is nothing but pain and misery for them. This is a case that can be understood with rational and logical arguments. We just have to make them understand, why we need this place. I'm optimistic about that.

For example, I gave Buzzfeed an interview a few months ago, when all of this happened. I messaged the reporter who wrote the article about Shawn and she interviewed me for 50 minutes. I explained my struggles with life to that reporter, why I think that the current psychiatric and mental health care system is failing and why some people, in critical conditions, need a way out, an exit. It was never released because I'm Swiss and there weren't enough people that talked to her, therefore the story wouldn't have been representative enough of this community. It would be great if our voices, the voices of suicidal and struggling people, could be heard, if we had a platform where we could share our stories to the public. But that's what I tried to do back in June and I think we can make this happen, together. This isn't hopeless. There are people who are ready to listen. We just need to show a little bit more activism. I don't want Shawns mother and Dawn Keefer to win this battle and ruin this wonderful community for all of us.

So yeah, all of this certainly is frustrating but it's not the end of the world.

 

[f82dyhfajs5fg7]

"Bill to Combat Encouraging Suicide"
"Keefer's bill would increase criminal penalties on those who encourage another person to commit suicide."
That's fine because nothing of that sort is occurring here.

 

[omoidarui]

"Shawn's" Law is making me cringe, not just the bill itself but how they're handling her 'legacy'

I'm writing a reflective piano piece and am tempted to name it Shawn's Prélude or something, then at least she'll have something actually nice to her memory however small, and not just the toutings of one ignorant politician

 

[paul29]

I would be happy to speak in support of this site, in whatever setting, if doing so would help with your legal or advocacy causes.

 

[Tom9999]

Many times speaking openly with others about something intimate you're struggling with and getting acceptance and understanding in return can sigficantly heal. Meaningless suffering can lose some of its meaninglessness when shared among a community, making it more bearable. Discussing your mental knots with others who have similar ones helps you to untangle them. Offering support and love to others through words makes you feel less alone in your own struggles and reduces your own feelings of powerlessness.

These are the main things I have experienced and seen in this forum. Advice on how to commit suicide is a very minor presence here.

This place is waaaaay more about sharing, support, and acceptance than it is about the specific act of suicide.

This is in practice NOT a "suicide forum"

It is a much needed and much appreciated autonomous group therapy forum focused on dealing with unbearable meaningless suffering.

Ignorant people like Dawn Keefer not only fail to understand this, but lack the moral courage to examine the issue of unbearable suffering in an intelligent, honest, and empathic manner.

The only evil is her pandering sensationalistic lies and sloppy disregard of the right to free speech.

 

[TowerUpright]

"Shawn's" Law is making me cringe, not just the bill itself but how they're handling her 'legacy'

I'm writing a reflective piano piece and am tempted to name it Shawn's Prélude or something, then at least she'll have something actually nice to her memory however small, and not just the toutings of one ignorant politician

This may sound cynical, but never, for once, believe a politician is thinking about someone other than themselves. If Shawn was actually DeShawn and from an impoverished neighborhood, and her mother was just as outraged, we wouldn't be having this bill.

Politicians only care about getting elected or reelected. I mean, if your job relied on people liking you and you risk being unemployed every few years if your name wasn't in the spotlight, wouldn't you do everything you could to stay employed?? So it is here.

It's so sad that only a shadow of truth is what the media is reporting. Perhaps a distraught mother might say wishing some one peace is encouraging suicide, but it isn't. No more than seeing your tipsy friend start to drive away in their car and wishing them safe travels.

Thanks for listening to me on my soapbox.

Peace to all: Suicidal, non-suicidal, police, and distraught parents.

 

[color_me_gone]

See my Avatar.
Its caption is "The sun is rising"
Do you know why that is?
It is because this forum has given me me hope.
I am currently not actively seeking out my method of suicide.
I am one of the many people who this forum has helped.

 

[Antinous]

A competent adult has the right to choose the time, place, and manner of their death. Most people would choose a peaceful death.

Suicide is legal.

Heinous societies have passed savage laws to criminalize a person who assists another person to do something that is lawful.

By withholding the means to die a peaceful death, society forces people to act out of desperation; to use methods that might result in a horrific and painful death.

By withholding the means to die a peaceful death, society forces people to act in ignorance; to misuse methods, resulting in a horrific and painful death.

Why do so-called religious people deny their sisters and brothers a peaceful end?

Why do so-called moral people force their brothers and sisters into a terrifying end?

Where is the compassion?

 

[Dawn0071111]

You know with all the hype in the media... Im worried there may be all kinds of spies on this site now watching all our posts..... Ijust tried a link to a gas site and it went stright to the suicide hotline....... I'm worried soon all our options will be raided and banned..... Not sure how this could be rectified. Oh well.. :(