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Darkover

Darkover

Archangel
Jul 29, 2021
5,448
The idea that we might be living in a computer simulation has gained popularity in recent years, especially following arguments like those proposed by philosopher Nick Bostrom. According to this simulation hypothesis, it's possible that a highly advanced civilization could run simulations of conscious beings (like us), and that we could be those simulated beings without knowing it. However, there are several significant reasons to be skeptical of this idea.




1. Mathematics Does Not Equal Physical Reality


One key misunderstanding in many pro-simulation arguments is the assumption that because the universe is describable by mathematics, it must be a simulation. But this confuses description with substance.


No, math itself does not create energy.
Math is a tool for understanding and quantifying energy, but it doesn't create it in the same way that a physical process, like burning fuel or converting sunlight to electricity, does.

In other words, just because we can describe gravitational attraction with equations doesn't mean gravity is those equations. Mathematics is a language we use to interpret the universe — not its underlying substance. The laws of physics may appear computational, but that doesn't prove they are being computed by something external.




2. Information ≠ Conscious Experience


Some proponents argue that because a brain can be described in terms of information processing, consciousness can be simulated. But there's no evidence that simulating a brain creates a conscious mind in the same way that simulating a fire doesn't produce heat. Simulation is not the same as instantiation. A perfect simulation of a storm in a computer doesn't get you wet.


So the question becomes: if we're in a simulation, where and how does conscious experience arise? This question remains unanswered and points to the limits of assuming that everything reducible to data can automatically produce subjective awareness.




3. Computational Limits


Running a full-scale simulation of a universe as complex as ours would require enormous computational resources — possibly more than the simulated universe itself contains. The idea that a posthuman civilization could do this relies on assumptions about future technology that may not be physically possible. Even in a simplified simulation, maintaining the illusion of quantum uncertainty, relativity, consciousness, and physical interaction at all scales seems implausibly resource-intensive.




4. Lack of Empirical Evidence


Despite various speculative claims, there's no empirical evidence that supports the simulation hypothesis. We have no observed "glitches" in the matrix that indicate artificiality. Quantum physics is often misunderstood as being evidence for simulation (e.g., wavefunction collapse or quantum randomness), but these are properties of physical systems, not signs of digital computation.




5. The Base-Reality Problem


The simulation argument often assumes that simulating realities is something future civilizations will want to do — and do at scale. But that's a philosophical assumption, not a necessity. Even if they could simulate us, it doesn't mean they have. And even if we were in a simulation, the simulators would themselves need a base reality — leading to an infinite regress.




Conclusion


While it's an intriguing and philosophically rich concept, the idea that we live in a computer simulation is not supported by empirical science. It confuses description with creation, oversimplifies consciousness, assumes future technological capabilities without evidence, and lacks testable predictions. Math may describe our reality beautifully — but it doesn't generate it.
 
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LittleMagician

LittleMagician

Student
Apr 17, 2025
182
The idea that we might be living in a computer simulation has gained popularity in recent years, especially following arguments like those proposed by philosopher Nick Bostrom. According to this simulation hypothesis, it's possible that a highly advanced civilization could run simulations of conscious beings (like us), and that we could be those simulated beings without knowing it. However, there are several significant reasons to be skeptical of this idea.




1. Mathematics Does Not Equal Physical Reality


One key misunderstanding in many pro-simulation arguments is the assumption that because the universe is describable by mathematics, it must be a simulation. But this confuses description with substance.




In other words, just because we can describe gravitational attraction with equations doesn't mean gravity is those equations. Mathematics is a language we use to interpret the universe — not its underlying substance. The laws of physics may appear computational, but that doesn't prove they are being computed by something external.




2. Information ≠ Conscious Experience


Some proponents argue that because a brain can be described in terms of information processing, consciousness can be simulated. But there's no evidence that simulating a brain creates a conscious mind in the same way that simulating a fire doesn't produce heat. Simulation is not the same as instantiation. A perfect simulation of a storm in a computer doesn't get you wet.


So the question becomes: if we're in a simulation, where and how does conscious experience arise? This question remains unanswered and points to the limits of assuming that everything reducible to data can automatically produce subjective awareness.




3. Computational Limits


Running a full-scale simulation of a universe as complex as ours would require enormous computational resources — possibly more than the simulated universe itself contains. The idea that a posthuman civilization could do this relies on assumptions about future technology that may not be physically possible. Even in a simplified simulation, maintaining the illusion of quantum uncertainty, relativity, consciousness, and physical interaction at all scales seems implausibly resource-intensive.




4. Lack of Empirical Evidence


Despite various speculative claims, there's no empirical evidence that supports the simulation hypothesis. We have no observed "glitches" in the matrix that indicate artificiality. Quantum physics is often misunderstood as being evidence for simulation (e.g., wavefunction collapse or quantum randomness), but these are properties of physical systems, not signs of digital computation.




5. The Base-Reality Problem


The simulation argument often assumes that simulating realities is something future civilizations will want to do — and do at scale. But that's a philosophical assumption, not a necessity. Even if they could simulate us, it doesn't mean they have. And even if we were in a simulation, the simulators would themselves need a base reality — leading to an infinite regress.




Conclusion


While it's an intriguing and philosophically rich concept, the idea that we live in a computer simulation is not supported by empirical science. It confuses description with creation, oversimplifies consciousness, assumes future technological capabilities without evidence, and lacks testable predictions. Math may describe our reality beautifully — but it doesn't generate it.
If this was a computer simulation then I'd probably feel better considering the realm of reality in a computer simulation is way better than in this reality
 
Darkover

Darkover

Archangel
Jul 29, 2021
5,448
If this was a computer simulation then I'd probably feel better considering the realm of reality in a computer simulation is way better than in this reality
math itself doesn't produce emotions or consciousness — it's a tool, a language we use to describe patterns, relationships, and structures. It's abstract and logical, not emotional or sentient.
 
LittleMagician

LittleMagician

Student
Apr 17, 2025
182
math itself doesn't produce emotions or consciousness — it's a tool, a language we use to describe patterns, relationships, and structures. It's abstract and logical, not emotional or sentient.
Does Ai have the potential to become sentient?
 
Darkover

Darkover

Archangel
Jul 29, 2021
5,448
Does Ai have the potential to become sentient?
no amount of math can ever become sentient
mathematics is descriptive, not generative in the sense of creating subjective experience.
consciousness involves something non-computable like chemicals and electricity
 
LittleMagician

LittleMagician

Student
Apr 17, 2025
182
no amount of math can ever become sentient
mathematics is descriptive, not generative in the sense of creating subjective experience.
consciousness involves something non-computable like chemicals and electricity
So the future robotic apocalypse is just a myth then?
 
flightless bird

flightless bird

somewhere over the rainbow
Aug 18, 2022
225
it's possible that a highly advanced civilization could run simulations of conscious beings (like us)
if that's true, then an even more advanced civilization could be simulating the ones simulating us, and then another one above that, and so on.

basically, it's just another kitsch scenario of infinite regress, hiding behind the avoidance of an ontological answer.
 
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LittleMagician

LittleMagician

Student
Apr 17, 2025
182
they can combine with biology to become sentient or you could have a run away process of self improvement that can still impact the world on a grand scale
Would that runaway process create sentience?
 
F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
11,464
The bigger problem as I see it is- even if it is a simulation- which I also find doubtful, it feels like we're stuck with it. There seems no totally efficient way to cheat out pain or bankruptcy or starvation or animals killing one another all over the place. So- even if it isn't 'real', it's the reality we seem stuck with.

I suppose there are philosophical/ existential issues. It's not comfortable to think we are being 'intensively farmed' by some alien species. There's also the general complaint of- What's the point in all this suffering?

I just question whether it wouldn't be more efficient if it was a simulation. What is it they're using us for exactly? Why allow us to be mortal? Surely, if there's some resource they need from us, why not make us live longer? Why permit any deaths in infancy?

I suppose it depends on whether we were created as a slave race or, whether aliens happened upon us and then enslaved us- in which case, maybe they could only work with what they had. Why has our population risen gradually though? If they are intensively 'farming' us, then why not cram as many people in from the start? Or, do they need the animals too? In which case- why let us dominate so much? What are they planning to do long-term when the sun dies? Or, is that a lie? It just seems too weird to me. Who knows though?
 

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