Venting Why is the UK so anti suicide. My life, my choice, what about my happiness

[TheEndIsNigh31]

So just reading through stories, of suicide in the UK and world of course. However everyone gets so defensive about suicide. I get theres people who do it rash and out of the blue. However there are so many people out there that wish to be at peace and happy. Thats what i want but everyone judges dont get me wrong i dont care about what people think just people are ignorant.

My happiness should be how i want it to be and if suicide is that so be it. I want peace

 

[TimeToBiteTheDust]

In my country the same. "Oooh how can you think of killing yourself" "Don't say that" "You are beautiful" "You are young" and a lot of excuses for not to ctb. I am not happy neither. Just live my unhappy life.

 

[ceelo]

Cynical societal conditioning and faux self righteousness hiding intention to keep gdp high and tax payers alive.

 

[TheEndIsNigh31]

yes I don't understand it. Oh look who'll miss you etc everyone will be sad. Wait what about me constantly being sad and miserable

 

[faust]

This implies that the people with whom you spoke are not free from the opinions of others. There is such a thing called a dynamic stereotype. In general, a person creates some kind of worldview in order to make it easier for him to explain what is happening around. Everything that does not fit into his worldview is alien. Using manipulative methods, the state and then society impose certain views. In countries where power holds people in check more strongly, the reaction to the stimulus is stronger since the boundaries of their dynamic stereotype are closer. Negativity towards suicide does not come alone.

 

[Georgii]

"They had their whole life ahead of them " " They should've considered talking to someone ,getting help." ",They were being selfish"

All these stereotypical lines that are heard/read all over when a suicide news pops up or even the mention of suicide are just giving me a headache .I get that some people mean well(somehow , in their own way ) But to me it's just ignorant .Why should I be called selfish for wanting to end my own misery?I agree,some have it worse and they are fighting to stay alive .I applauded them ..they have will to stay alive , they want to fight it off .
But I don't , it is my choice. I don't know when it'll happen or how ,I've been planning and thinking about it for years. ITS ALWAYS BEEN THERE , so when I'll finally do it .. it means I have finally came to terms with it ,I finally had the courage to make up my mind with this life I don't want .But still , people will be the same ..the same phrases will be heard when I'm in ground .No matter how hard I try to explain to them while I'm alive .

 

[ParasiteEOT]

It annoys me too, we should be allowed to leave this world peacefully. There is no one on this earth that can Be in a position to say that a person does not have the Right to end their life. We are all existing on our own paths and the only person who can truly decide what's best is the person walking it.
i think the reason that there is so much anti suicide is because that's actually about their (Anti suicide) own existential dilemmas

 

[TheEndIsNigh31]

Everything is a chore.

We are a plague on this planet and alot of people don't understand this. Corona for me showed me that my existence is pointless. Wildlife are free, waters clean and pollution down.

I do wish corona wiped us out save me a job doing myself.
But its always the suicides fault, why didn't they get help, why didn't they talk, selfish and everyone else has stated others.

Why is me ending my life such a burden on society. Why should we suffer, be in pain and just be fed up existing.
I wish and hope that when I CTB people at my funeral won't cry and will say he's happy now he's at peace.

 

[rebelsue]

To correct some of your reasoning -- you don't feel happy if you're dead because you'll be dead. You don't feel anything when you're dead.

All countries are against suicide. Why would they be in favor of their own citizens killing themselves? Can you imagine the alternative? "Oh yeah, totally, you should kill yourself." I just can't envision it from their perspective.

Maybe Switzerland with their assisted suicide organization allows it but they do state that they don't support the idea of young healthy people with mental illnesses using their services.

I'm not anti-suicide personally -- obviously, otherwise why would I be here? -- but I do see their side of things.

 

[TheEndIsNigh31]

To correct some of your reasoning -- you don't feel happy if you're dead because you'll be dead. You don't feel anything when you're dead.

All countries are against suicide. Why would they be in favor of their own citizens killing themselves? Can you imagine the alternative? "Oh yeah, totally, you should kill yourself." I just can't envision it from their perspective.

Maybe Switzerland with their assisted suicide organization allows it but they do state that they don't support the idea of young healthy people with mental illnesses using their services.

I'm not anti-suicide personally -- obviously, otherwise why would I be here? -- but I do see their side of things.

I think you took it wrong, i understand the whole not letting every citizen but it should be available and not frowned on. Suicide in the UK was illegal up until the 50s and 60s i mean you were punished for trying to end your own misery. Why can't people be more understanding and less ignorant and why can't countries be more open to helping the mentally ill.
Switzerland are a strange one because you have to be terminally ill yet my mental illness is terminal why not me. I'm in my 30s and I've been like this 15 years but I have to suffer because everyone's moral compass says its wrong. Belgium Holland are another 2 countries with Switzerland style centres aswell.

 

[Deleted member 17949]

Here in the UK we have a very anti-suicide culture where people are quick to call you selfish for it yet we don't really have great systems for mental health support either. The overall message seems to be "just be normal so we don't have to think about you"

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Here in the UK we have a very anti-suicide culture where people are quick to call you selfish for it yet we don't really have great systems for mental health support either. The overall message seems to be "just be normal so we don't have to think about you"

I'm surprised the motto isn't, "Just have a cuppa. It'll all work out."

 

[TheEndIsNigh31]

Here in the UK we have a very anti-suicide culture where people are quick to call you selfish for it yet we don't really have great systems for mental health support either. The overall message seems to be "just be normal so we don't have to think about you"

Couldn't agree more. Just put on a happy face please so you don't put others down

 

[rebelsue]

I think you took it wrong, i understand the whole not letting every citizen but it should be available and not frowned on. Suicide in the UK was illegal up until the 50s and 60s i mean you were punished for trying to end your own misery. Why can't people be more understanding and less ignorant and why can't countries be more open to helping the mentally ill.
Switzerland are a strange one because you have to be terminally ill yet my mental illness is terminal why not me. I'm in my 30s and I've been like this 15 years but I have to suffer because everyone's moral compass says its wrong. Belgium Holland are another 2 countries with Switzerland style centres aswell.

I think what's very sad is that helping the mentally ill is really really hard. You can't help everyone. Governments don't have all the resources in the world to do this. The modern world has improved in their ways of helping the mentally ill -- we're on an upward trajectory but it's very slow. My therapist even told me that he sees the world as a bottomless pit of need and that you can be the most caring person in the world and that pit of need can consume you and kill you because there is never enough help and always more needy people.

Life is hard. We are on our own here, whether we want to believe it or not.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

helping the mentally ill is really really hard. You can't help everyone. Governments don't have all the resources in the world to do this.

I would argue that the UK government took on the responsibility to help everyone by having a National Health Service. If they can't help everyone, then they need to allow alternative solutions for everyone, not just those who can afford private options.

 

[Deleted member 17949]

I'm surprised the motto isn't, "Just have a cuppa. It'll all work out."

That's the motto I've been going by, and I have to be real with you, it isn't working out

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

Here in the UK we have a very anti-suicide culture where people are quick to call you selfish for it yet we don't really have great systems for mental health support either. The overall message seems to be "just be normal so we don't have to think about you"

It's like that pretty much everywhere. Their goal isn't to help people, it's to put you out of their sight as fast as possible and pretend that you don't exist.

 

[lostangel]

I think it comes down to ignorance and brain washing.

 

[SSlostallhope]

yes I don't understand it. Oh look who'll miss you etc everyone will be sad. Wait what about me constantly being sad and miserable

Even in death people make it about them.

 

[Sinai Silence]

When it comes down to it when someone ctb it is another statistic that smears the image of the country, doesn't matter what country you're in Big Brother doesn't want to admit they have a problem in their society. It's easier to create a societal stigma around a sensitive subject rather than embrace the problem and support the vulnerable people it affects. 'We make our own monsters, then fear them for what they show us about ourselves' - Mike Carey

Keep Calm and Carry On looks great on a tea towel and all but I hate the quote; it stands to show everything wrong with this country.

I just read a couple of articles that give some food for thought:

Several themes describe misconceptions about mental illness and corresponding stigmatizing attitudes. Media analyses of film and print have identified three: people with mental illness are homicidal maniacs who need to be feared; they have childlike perceptions of the world that should be marveled; or they are responsible for their illness because they have weak character . Results of two independent factor analyses of the survey responses of more than 2000 English and American citizens parallel these findings:

1. fear and exclusion: persons with severe mental illness should be feared and, therefore, be kept out of most communities;
2. authoritarianism: persons with severe mental illness are irresponsible, so life decisions should be made by others;
3. benevolence: persons with severe mental illness are childlike and need to be cared for.

Although stigmatizing attitudes are not limited to mental illness, the public seems to disapprove persons with psychiatric disabilities significantly more than persons with related conditions such as physical illness. Severe mental illness has been likened to drug addiction, prostitution, and criminality. Unlike physical disabilities, persons with mental illness are perceived by the public to be in control of their disabilities and responsible for causing them. Furthermore, research respondents are less likely to pity persons with mental illness, instead reacting to psychiatric disability with anger and believing that help is not deserved.

The behavioral impact (or discrimination) that results from public stigma may take four forms: withholding help, avoidance, coercive treatment, and segregated institutions. Previous studies have shown that the public will withhold help to some minority groups because of corresponding stigma.

There's the link if anyone's interested in reading further :)

 

[unwell lady]

So just reading through stories, of suicide in the UK and world of course. However everyone gets so defensive about suicide. I get theres people who do it rash and out of the blue. However there are so many people out there that wish to be at peace and happy. Thats what i want but everyone judges dont get me wrong i dont care about what people think just people are ignorant.

My happiness should be how i want it to be and if suicide is that so be it. I want peace

Seems to be no one gives a fuck how we feel! As long as you take your anti depressants and """"don't upset anyone"""""
Even though we go through absolute HELL daily
Our death might inconvenience someone,at least that's how I feel about the U.K.

 

[Green Destiny]

I agree. People have the right to live, yet people don't have the right to die when they so choose? It's ridiculous.

 

[not-2-b-the-answer]

So just reading through stories, of suicide in the UK and world of course. However everyone gets so defensive about suicide. I get theres people who do it rash and out of the blue. However there are so many people out there that wish to be at peace and happy. Thats what i want but everyone judges dont get me wrong i dont care about what people think just people are ignorant.

My happiness should be how i want it to be and if suicide is that so be it. I want peace

It's the same if not worse in the U.S. We have so may Pro-Life Jesus FREAKS here ... legal suicide will never be an option.
I just want this misery to end. I don't want to hurt anyone but it's not fair to be expected to stay for that reason. Especially since I was not given any choice be brought into this shitty existance.

 

[Moonomyth]

OP, I think you'll be harder pressed to find countries that are pro-choice with regard to suicides that aren't the result of terminal illnesses.

The fact of the matter is that you being unexpectedly dead when you aren't old in societies that expect most people to die of old age turns you into a resource problem. Dying of old age is accounted for in most medical systems and is anticipated. The costs of processing you are already built in or are offloaded onto the families, who see this coming.

Just finding you swinging from a ceiling in your thirties, or taking one last nap after a dose of SN? That costs police resources as the area is investigated, medical resources during any additional autopsies, psychological resources as the bereaved try to rely on the NHS for their own healthcare needs. It's time, paperwork, and bureaucracy, and that is all taxpayer money.

Granted, the same is true of any unexpected death, but deciding to CTB is particularly obnoxious because you chose to do it, whether you considered it for a long time or in a period of emotional crisis. The victims of a tragic car accident or a mass shooting didn't plan for anything, but you made the conscious effort to waste local government resources. Victims of accidents would have otherwise gone on to the normal, anticipated state of dying of old age, and the system would have functioned as normal.

And just think of all the time and resources wasted on the assumption that you would go on to be productive! Education costs, healthcare costs, money spent maintaining roads you've driven on, etc., etc., and you've gone and made all of that effort moot. By deciding to CTB you've taken more out of the system than you've put in by default. You become a net drain, and in the end the costs of trying to prevent you from doing so are cheaper than the costs of cleaning up after you're done.

If you really want to make society turn around on suicide prevention, you therefore need to focus on making it more expensive and time-consuming to keep you alive than it is to let you shove off.

 

[Hoid]

I used to think that suicide prevention was just another case of good intentions gone too far. That people really did care about those that wanted to die. That they did in fact want what was best for us and simply didn't understand that in some cases, they were doing nothing but prolonging a miserable existence.

And yeah, people are sympathetic, to an extent, to those who are suicidal. Nobody likes seeing someone in so much pain that they would rather die than keep living, but what are they actually willing to do to care for the people in such misery? Not much.

That's why suicide prohibitions and the current paradigm of mental healthcare in general are so convenient for everyone else. Despite claiming to follow the biopsychosocial model of mental health, clinical psychiatry/psychology pretty much leaves the -social part unaddressed and almost unacknowledged. Everyone is perfectly content to pretend that all issues of mental health are a matter of pathology. "Oh it's no problem that you can barely afford to pay your bills. That you've been isolated and ostracized, if not outright abused, for most of your life. There's just a problem with your brain chemistry, here's some pills. Go to some therapy because you clearly need to learn better coping skills."

The nice thing about painting our problems as individual defects or deficiencies, is that the onus is now completely on us to make our lives more livable. If they accepted that people are often driven to suicide by external pressures, that some people actually can't make it on their own, then they would have to make more tangible efforts to support those who are in need. Or they would have to admit that their honest attitude is, "Yeah we'd love for you to be living a satisfying life, but if enabling you to do so requires anything from us, well then fuck off."

Refusing to allow people to freely kill themselves allows the rest of society to feel like they're supporting suicidal people without having to assume any of the burden of those lives. And they know it isn't going to be enough for everyone. That is made abundantly clear by the thousands of people who kill themselves every year despite how difficult they've made it to commit suicide. But when those people inevitably fall through the cracks, everyone will just pat themselves on the back and tell themselves, "We did everything we could to keep them from dying." Yeah, but you did fuck all to give any of us a life worth living.

 

[cytokinestorm]

What I absolutely hate about the UK is that there are no mental health services, but they don't allow you to kill yourself either. You're just left in limbo. Forced to carry on. For what? People should always have a choice.

 

[ebt88]

What do you mean saying that suicide is not available or you don't have the right? There was another post discussing this recently.

For those in a coma/paralyzed/etc it's true there is no legal euthanasia. Then for those with normal motor abilities there are ways to ctb you can freely execute like hanging/exit bag/sn. I would say exit bag is particulary available an easy.

Selling a suicide pill otc or allowing doctors to kill people upon a form signature is not that easy.

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

I used to think that suicide prevention was just another case of good intentions gone too far. That people really did care about those that wanted to die. That they did in fact want what was best for us and simply didn't understand that in some cases, they were doing nothing but prolonging a miserable existence.

And yeah, people are sympathetic, to an extent, to those who are suicidal. Nobody likes seeing someone in so much pain that they would rather die than keep living, but what are they actually willing to do to care for the people in such misery? Not much.

That's why suicide prohibitions and the current paradigm of mental healthcare in general are so convenient for everyone else. Despite claiming to follow the biopsychosocial model of mental health, clinical psychiatry/psychology pretty much leaves the -social part unaddressed and almost unacknowledged. Everyone is perfectly content to pretend that all issues of mental health are a matter of pathology. "Oh it's no problem that you can barely afford to pay your bills. That you've been isolated and ostracized, if not outright abused, for most of your life. There's just a problem with your brain chemistry, here's some pills. Go to some therapy because you clearly need to learn better coping skills."

The nice thing about painting our problems as individual defects or deficiencies, is that the onus is now completely on us to make our lives more livable. If they accepted that people are often driven to suicide by external pressures, that some people actually can't make it on their own, then they would have to make more tangible efforts to support those who are in need. Or they would have to admit that their honest attitude is, "Yeah we'd love for you to be living a satisfying life, but if enabling you to do so requires anything from us, well then fuck off."

Refusing to allow people to freely kill themselves allows the rest of society to feel like they're supporting suicidal people without having to assume any of the burden of those lives. And they know it isn't going to be enough for everyone. That is made abundantly clear by the thousands of people who kill themselves every year despite how difficult they've made it to commit suicide. But when those people inevitably fall through the cracks, everyone will just pat themselves on the back and tell themselves, "We did everything we could to keep them from dying." Yeah, but you did fuck all to give any of us a life worth living.

Good post, to add to it I'm going to include a few quotes from other people. I have more that apply to what you're saying but they're a bit too long.

When and why do we attribute a person's behavior to brain disease, and when and why do we not do so? Briefly, the answer is that we often attribute bad behavior to disease (to excuse the agent);never attribute good behavior to disease (lest we deprive the agent of credit); and typically attribute good behavior to free will and insist bad behavior called mental illness is a "no fault" act of nature. ― Thomas Stephen Szasz, Cruel Compassion: Psychiatric Control of Society's Unwanted

I'm so sick of this narrative from mainstream media and society. Suicide is a product of mental illness...which can all be resolved if you get help. Call this support line. Where you'll hear the same mindless platitudes and if you do admit you're thinking of killing yourself, get thrown in hospital in an involuntary mental health hold. Stripped of your dignity, your belongings searched, your appearance and belongings analysed, medicated, watched, having to pretend you're okay to be let out.

Tell me how this is supposed to help? And when you are let out, you're given a prescription and a number to call.

Whatever happened in your life to make you want to end it...abuse, trauma, poverty, homelessness, homophobia, racism, disability, parental expectations, broken relationships....whatever, none of that matters. If you just talk it out, access the "support", you'll be fine. No one ever talks about addressing the issues that put you there in the first place.

No one who wasn't already thinking about suicide - as an issue at least, if not an option for them personally - seeks out sites like this. And it's the only place where people like us can talk openly. (I'm new here but was on ASH back in the early 00s, I just wish I'd paid more attention to methods).

It's natural for those who've lost a loved one to look for answers and lash out at those they believe are to blame. It's lazy and irresponsible for the media to join in. Look at a society with appalling mental health support, few resources for the disadvantaged, and a societal discourse that forces open conversation about suicide into trite notions of support and people who can't even be honest for fear they'll wind up in a mental health unit, not allowed to leave. -Suicidal stranger from the internet

 

[Hoid]

Selling a suicide pill otc or allowing doctors to kill people upon a form signature is not that easy

Regarding active euthanasia or doctor assisted suicide, it's true that implementing such a system would be complicated and there would be valid ethical concerns that would need to be addressed.

Then for those with normal motor abilities there are ways to ctb you can freely execute like hanging/exit bag/sn.

I think "freely execute" is a bit generous to describe what we have now. Leaving aside the lack of a right to medical assistance in dying, which I think is the humane thing to have, we're not even free to do it ourselves without interference from others. You're not really free to commit suicide when everyone else can and will do everything in their power to stop you from doing so, including the use of force. And they will do so without any regard for what condition you will be in afterwards. Yes there are limits as to what can be done to prevent a truly determined and capable person from suicide. Not everyone is in an ideal situation though even for a lot of the methods listed on this site. People can have limited financial independence, physical limitations, restrictions on privacy, etc. There's a whole added level of difficulty and often times extreme risk to committing suicide that should not be there.

Anyway, not to speak for anyone else but that's what I gather people refer to when they say suicide is not available or they don't have the right. Not just lack of access to medical assistance in dying, but also the lack of freedom to make their own choice and act free from the interference of others.

 

[Intheo]

Damn right. Society gives you hallow feel-good rhetoric but offers no real solution. "Don't do it." "You got so much to live for."
When they prevent a suicide for that moment, they pat themselves on the back and go back to ignoring the person in pain. but none of them offer real solutions.

But where do you get help that actually helps? Therapy costs too much and is not very effective. Medication carries a risk of serious side-effects and may not even work. Promising compounds are illegal.

They just tell you to get a "real job," pay your taxes, and buy shit you don't need until you die.