nembutal

nembutal

everything will be okay in the end
Jul 14, 2022
317
it has been 6 months of trying to solve an issue i am having with my prescriber and insurance as to why i am not receiving my prescribed medication monthly and with week long pauses in between.

there are many more examples of society failing the mentally ill rather than the socially accepted vice versa. the suicidal are often seen as flawed by their own transgressions, rather than their irregularities being perpetuated by or even CAUSED by the systems put in place around them. the American government certainly isn't making it easy to NOT be suicidal.

a student with a different learning style feeling failed by the academic system.
a person prone to stress working full time due to horrible wages.
don't get me started on the fact that some systems are DESIGNED for those who aren't BORN INTO WEALTH to FAIL.

our suicides will never be seen as the result of the culmination of low wages, of corporate monotony, of greedy shareholder policies. we will always be seen as failing to have remedied some flaw in ourselves that inevitably led to our deaths.

current society places so many stressful systems into place that fail to acknowledge our innate purpose to survive the night and breed that it shocks me that suicide isn't commonplace. we have strayed so far from our natural purpose and so deep into the stressors of consumerism and meaning-seeking that it shouldn't be surprising that many are choosing to opt out.

why isn't the rising suicide rate being attributed to the fact that the population has woken up to realize how corrupt and unforgiving the world around us is?

please feel free to help me expand on this thought more broadly by contributing to its discussion and analysis. it is 2am and i cant exactly place what i am trying to say into correct wording. thank you~
 
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EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
2,497
I assume that the reason is because, at least in the West, the strong individualistic culture breeds the idea that you are supposed to take responsibility for yourself. It pushes the idea that any issues that you have in life are your fault and it is up to you to fix them, and this includes any issues with your mental health. That's why you have people who treat issues like poverty and homelessness as something that arises due to an individual's failures in life that can be easily fixed if they just started working harder, rather than as a reflection of the flaws in how our society functions. If you are suicidal then that is your fault.

It's pretty stupid.
 
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lamargue

lamargue

concupiscent soul
Jun 5, 2024
359
i think the general view of individual responsibility as an antipode to pro-choice discourse is described by Thatcher quite well

"They are casting their problems at society. And, you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours."
 
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Holu

Holu

Hypomania go brrr
Apr 5, 2023
660
Meritocracy and rugged individualism. It's the western and "American" spirit. Additionally family is also blamed, since it's seen as a failure of family. Also, it's easier to address the faults of the individual rather than the the bigger system involved in the matter.
 
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ThatGuyOverThere

ThatGuyOverThere

David Benatar Enjoyer
Apr 25, 2024
107
Why Would an abuser ever admit guilt?
 
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SocialSoil

SocialSoil

for the first and last time i guess
Aug 15, 2024
17
oh my god, i understand you a lot on some level. i feel as an error in our country system, even though it's not my fault. child protective services where i live are barely working. i should have become an orphan long while ago, yet these idiots hadn't moved their finger until i literally went to their office. they started moving only when seen me hysterical. call me lazy, but i don't have powers or psychological setup to work. i just am used to thought i am a mistake so i shouldn't even try if my existence is a problem from the start, and i'm gonna fix it anyway, so why bother?

but, you know, it could be different if cps worked. if i became an orphan, i could be able to get financial support up to my age of 25 due to college, plus payment due to 'loss of parents'. at the point, my mother was ignoring my existence for 5 months, and father too, so i was fed up. why not try to sue them by myself? but i needed to work quickly, cuz at the start of august i turn 18.

i went to cps, and first thing they tell me - 'where have you been this whole time?'. and what is hilarious - we have centre of social help to families and children. i was on regular check-ins because they knew about my family, specialists from centre had been filing reports on my family since february 1st, and these shitbags just didn't care.

in the end i managed to get a lawsuit statement that was approved at court, but the problem? judge was on vacation. they picked the date that was just 2 days after my burthday. when at court i pointed that i filed a lawsuit at the appropriate time since i wasn't 18, judge interrupted me and said it doesn't matter. and as a representative of cps at court was the woman who made me hysterical at the first place and didn't care. everyone just didn't care. i wanted to hit this woman.

so... after that i just gave up. since life is going to get harder and harder and i know i just won't survive these trials. nah, fuck it. i'm tired, i worked so hard for nothing. that was breaking point.

but, as society loves to do, they'll blame something stupid like 'bad video games' or 'teen broken love' or 'he was just stupid' or 'everything was normal. why would he do so?'. no one will think what's wrong with system. eh. anyways thanks for reading my yapping and thank you for making this post:heart:. it's just cruel when people who supposed to care don't work properly.🤝
 
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nembutal

nembutal

everything will be okay in the end
Jul 14, 2022
317
bump
 
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Plentiful_Despair

Plentiful_Despair

Student
Aug 23, 2024
158
Because society doesn't give a shit about "losers", and a "loser" is anyone who can't keep up with being a good obedient participant in the capitalistic ratrace. Depressed or dead people are not productive, they are a living reminder of the failures of our cultural systems and therefore a threat to "justice and order". Thats the reason why suicide is illegal in many countries and attempts will get you in closed psycho facility.
 
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W

whydidthishappen

Member
May 6, 2024
40
The de-prescribing laws in North Carolina USA, circa 2021 did not allow me to get my controlled medication and proper mental health care circa 2022 and thereafter.

You should not deny someone on a controlled substance previously prescribed, weaned but once again forced to take it without a prescription due to lack of provider care- after 7 months I was quickly weaned off the drug And was forced to find alternatives for this problem and labeled as drug seeking. I was, in fact, seeking drugs because chemical dependency is a REAL thing.
This is thanks to the Sackler family.

I had to pay out of pocket or nil. I was on waitlists for months out just to see someone under my insurance. (My insurance was terrible and I was struggling financially) And everyone I spoke to would not help me with the issue. I greatly underestimated the consequences that it took on me biochemically. Not to mention- not one person in my immediate circle was looking out for me, and I walked into the trap of predators making my already pre existing suicidality issues much much worse than I could have ever conceived possible.

This is a massive fail on the part of the health care system, but more broadly the social circles or lack thereof that we are exposed to. And I suppose, if I was around one individual in the healthcare system who identified me as a high risk- who would have prioritized me as an individual with a large problem, rather than a mere number with legal liability, this could have been properly dealt with. I could not help that my social circle was terrible and that no one cared what happened to me while in psychosis.

I was a 33 year old woman at the time of medication withdrawal. WAY too much emphasis was put on the therapy side and personality-disordered issue. I really should have been in a hospital. I hurt myself during this period in such a way that it cannot be reversed.
And still, after my death I will be blamed with individual fault. It will be treated with indifference because I could not advocate for myself or more specifically, I brought it upon myself for being such a nuisance to society. It begs the question to how we treat people here.
Is someone truly addicted or prescribed?
And should we treat all cases as the fault of individual choice if our choice making abilities are altered significantly?
 
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Ariii

Ariii

Member
Oct 29, 2023
56
I feel like for a lot of people it's hard to confront the fact that so many people fall through the cracks in our society, so it's just easier to blame the individual. A lot of the time, it's easier to comprehend "This person was depressed" rather than the actual issues in society. Most ppl don't even want to think about it and want to live in ignorant bliss

Also I think it may be a byproduct of individualism. If in society, there's a "I take care of myself only" attitude, there will usually be the view of "They were responsible for their wellbeing and obviously they failed."
 
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B

brokeandbroken

Paragon
Apr 18, 2023
942
People don't want to feel bad especially in a hedonistic world. If they can turn outwards instead of feeling whatever it is themselves they will. Most people really only truly care about themselves. They just interact with people to see what they can get from them power, money, sex, etc.... People aren't good. When the people that they failed can't speak for themselves who cares. They aren't going to hear the voices from the graves. Even if it were possible they are just listening to themselves anyways.
 
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H

Hotsackage

Paragon
Mar 11, 2019
980
They view us as lazy or not trying hard enough, meanwhile if they had what we had clinical, aka their brain just doing random not good shit when it's not well, they would probably not be here.
 
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SilentSadness

SilentSadness

Sitting in the darkness.
Feb 28, 2023
1,012
I think it's mostly due to toxic positivity. If someone really likes a book and shares it with someone, but the other person doesn't like it, they are not going to see it as a failure of the book. Unfortunately, this attitude is extended to society.
 
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Endless_suffering

Endless_suffering

Experienced
Jul 12, 2024
200
Because in this world no society wants to accept responsibility for the ones they have failed. So they blame the ones they have failed by saying those people have actually failed themselves. And that was stepping up and saying we failed them. They blame us.
 
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B

badtothebone

Student
Aug 20, 2024
143
I never heard of blaming the individual! Parents and community normally blame themselves, school or mental health that they didn't see. Mental health is important as our physical and now people can see that. I didn't say society because I know not everyone cares about us. When my son passed away I only blame myself. I didn't want to blame others I can only speak about my faults. Anyway, I never heard the word " failed" about any one who died by suicide.
 
C

cursedbynature64

Member
Feb 23, 2024
58
It's easier to put the blame on the individual than it is to admit that we are living in a society that pushes people to suicide
 
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lovelesslifeless

lovelesslifeless

They say the sky, high above, is Caribbean Blue.
Aug 28, 2024
23
Censorship, sensationalism and propaganda.

Social media and news outlets love to push the rags to riches sob stories onto the masses.

Any 'negative' or honest viewpoint criticizing society is buried under a lot of self-help gurus who only profit off of gaslighting people into thinking it's all their fault.
OR they like to hyperfocus on just ONE aspect of society and not how it all ties into each other, so no one sees the full picture.

They also manipulate numbers to give a false sense of security.

We know the world we live in is FAR from a natural one, but when you're born into it - it's easy to be conditioned into believing it's all there ever was and should be. What is considered acceptable today by society is only defined by the mainstream, and the mainstream is under the thumb of the 'invisible' hand that controls and influences everything. It profits off of people's ignorance, so why would it ever admit that to their face? Under the guise of ''muh freedoms'', everyone has become blind to the fact that we're living in a prison in what is essentially modern day slavery. It's by design.
 
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nembutal

nembutal

everything will be okay in the end
Jul 14, 2022
317
Censorship, sensationalism and propaganda.

Social media and news outlets love to push the rags to riches sob stories onto the masses.

Any 'negative' or honest viewpoint criticizing society is buried under a lot of self-help gurus who only profit off of gaslighting people into thinking it's all their fault.

They also manipulate numbers to give a false sense of security.

We know the world we live in is FAR from a natural one, but when you're born into it - it's easy to be conditioned into believing it's all there ever was and should be. What is considered acceptable today by society is only defined by the mainstream, and the mainstream is under the thumb of the 'invisible' hand that controls and influences everything. It profits off of people's ignorance, so why would it ever admit that to their face? Under the guise of ''muh freedoms'', everyone has become blind to the fact that we're living in a prison in what is essentially modern day slavery.
who are you referring to and what numbers are they manipulating?
 
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lovelesslifeless

lovelesslifeless

They say the sky, high above, is Caribbean Blue.
Aug 28, 2024
23
who are you referring to and what numbers are they manipulating?

Like the devil they have many names. Also, you can buy bots, content farm and use ai to push any narrative or agenda you want on social media.

There's even a thing called controlled opposition, so even when you think you've finally escaped the controlled narratives - you're still trapped inside a bubble.

Social media has become the equivalent of stealing candy from a baby, especially in the age of the ipad-babies.

Children are learning how to work tech before they can even walk, talk or think for themselves. And whenever they're rolling in new laws to protect this new apocalypse of baby users, it's usually for their own personal gain (think what youtube did when taking away the dislike button and slapping more shady censorship laws onto creators).

Sorry for rambling and getting off topic, this shit just pisses me off.
 
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F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
8,516
I expect it would cost a lot more to 'fix' society. If we're talking about fair wages for all, support for all- where's that money coming from? The top managers would start having to take pay cuts. I think basically- people will say they care about stuff until it starts impacting their own quality of life. This way, the sociopaths at the top still get to make money profiting off the vulnerable by investing in big pharmaceutical companies.

Plus, it isn't always faceless. Who do we look to to blame? Parents, teachers, therapists, friends? Would it help if they had noticed and done more? What could they do individually? Yes, we're a society but, we're made up of individuals. Individuals who probably don't want to feel that kind of guilt and likely don't have the power to make big changes.

Plus, do we actually want them to intervene? A lot of people here haven't told loved ones about their ideation because they don't want them to intervene. Yes, it would be better if they hadn't gotten to the point they were suicidal to begin with but, once they are, the responsibility shifts to those closest to them to notice.

I think sometimes, we do blame failings in society though. I've read news articles where journalists have said they were struggling with unemployment, lack of benefits, lack of healthcare. But yes, I suppose underneath all that is the undertone that the person was unhinged.
 
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L0nely

L0nely

Deeming that I were better dead
Oct 28, 2023
196
It's easier to blame one person rather than whole group who failed them. It's easier to blame someone who can't stand up for themself anymore rather than having to deal with arguments of those who still live. It's easier to say "r.i.p" rather than put effort into helping sufferers to avoid the situation. It's easier to be the victim of "selfish coward" rather to take the blame for not trying to help them while they could.


Society just hates the idea of taking any blame for their actions or lack of them. They feed off of the attention that revolves around it instead.
 
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BobSmoked

BobSmoked

Member
Aug 27, 2024
44
It's strange I've struggled with this very issue for sometime my mum's oldest brother hanged himself I still blame myself and I feel like it was my fault for not be able to detect how bad things were for him less than a year later my mum's youngest brother CTB via the same method and now no-one will say it but I feel like it's my fault I'll happily hold my hand up and admit fault but I'm also not a mind reader and I know we as individuals can be impossible to second guess especially with the way society is designed to beat us down and keep us down.

Does cultural and religious beliefs have a place when answering the OPs question the answer is yes although depending on where you are the degree can vary an interesting thread and an interesting question it poses, I personally think people have been trained into living inside little boxes so if you don't abide by the societal constraints then you are the issue and no-one is prepared to to apply critical thinking and consider that maybe the system we've built is the problem not the individual suffering sorry for the ramble it actually helps to write it down even if it makes little sense.
 
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M

martinso67

All human rights are important
Feb 5, 2021
226
I assume that the reason is because, at least in the West, the strong individualistic culture breeds the idea that you are supposed to take responsibility for yourself. It pushes the idea that any issues that you have in life are your fault and it is up to you to fix them, and this includes any issues with your mental health. That's why you have people who treat issues like poverty and homelessness as something that arises due to an individual's failures in life that can be easily fixed if they just started working harder, rather than as a reflection of the flaws in how our society functions. If you are suicidal then that is your fault.

It's pretty stupid.
I wish that was the case, then my life would be worth to fight of. But as a human and especially in modern life one is much more dependent on other people (society). Sick: Need a doctor. Food/Water: need grocery stores, farmers, food producers. And so on. You need them to survive and not die slowly/painfully. But they do not need you personally. It would not affect them really if thousand of you died. But the opposite, in that society is shunning you, would mean a slow/painful death for you.

Most Animals are really free. A bird or a dog do not depend asymmetrically on other dogs to survive. Like the can work together. But the ones they work with, will not be the same harming/killing them. An animal that did turn mature(adult) leaves any dependence (which was it's parents) and starts to discover the world and live freely.
 
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EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
2,497
Most Animals are free. A bird or a dog does not depend asymmetrically on other dogs to survive. Like they can work together. But the ones they work with, will not be the same harming/killing them. An animal that did turn mature(adult) leaves any dependence (which was its parents) and starts to discover the world and live freely.
Dogs and birds of the same species who rely on each other do hurt each other. Hell, some species of birds get rid of their weakest young and focus more of their attention on ensuring the survival of the stronger kin, especially when resources are low. Shoebills have their babies fight each other, with whoever survives gaining all of their attention and care. Some dogs will eat their puppies if they feel they aren't fit for survival. Some species of animals also depend on each other asymmetrically for survival, sometimes more so than humans. Hell, the example you used, with dogs, actually highlights this point. A lot of dogs rely heavily on their human companion for survival and would end up or even die if we weren't around. If you go to countries where they have a lot of strays, especially ones where people aren't going around and giving strays things like food, they are usually a lot weaker and skinnier in comparison to dogs with owners. Other animals aren't free as they are constantly being held down by the constraints of nature, being forced to fight for their survival and hopefully reproduce. You don't look at a bunch of worker ants and think to yourself, "Man, they must be so free".

Humans are not special beings, we are animals. A lot of the things people hate about us, from our cruelty to our greed, aren't reflections of an organism that has been created by some sort of demonic entity but rather are just reflections of our animalistic nature. Looking down on humans and propping other animals up on a pedestal is just dumb. Humans are no better than any other animal species out there and vice versa. This type of rhetoric is unproductive. All you end up accomplishing is overly romanticizing the lives of other animal species.
 
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KuriGohan&Kamehameha

KuriGohan&Kamehameha

想死不能 - 想活不能
Nov 23, 2020
1,680
The de-prescribing laws in North Carolina USA, circa 2021 did not allow me to get my controlled medication and proper mental health care circa 2022 and thereafter.

You should not deny someone on a controlled substance previously prescribed, weaned but once again forced to take it without a prescription due to lack of provider care- after 7 months I was quickly weaned off the drug And was forced to find alternatives for this problem and labeled as drug seeking. I was, in fact, seeking drugs because chemical dependency is a REAL thing.
This is thanks to the Sackler family.

I had to pay out of pocket or nil. I was on waitlists for months out just to see someone under my insurance. (My insurance was terrible and I was struggling financially) And everyone I spoke to would not help me with the issue. I greatly underestimated the consequences that it took on me biochemically. Not to mention- not one person in my immediate circle was looking out for me, and I walked into the trap of predators making my already pre existing suicidality issues much much worse than I could have ever conceived possible.

This is a massive fail on the part of the health care system, but more broadly the social circles or lack thereof that we are exposed to. And I suppose, if I was around one individual in the healthcare system who identified me as a high risk- who would have prioritized me as an individual with a large problem, rather than a mere number with legal liability, this could have been properly dealt with. I could not help that my social circle was terrible and that no one cared what happened to me while in psychosis.

I was a 33 year old woman at the time of medication withdrawal. WAY too much emphasis was put on the therapy side and personality-disordered issue. I really should have been in a hospital. I hurt myself during this period in such a way that it cannot be reversed.
And still, after my death I will be blamed with individual fault. It will be treated with indifference because I could not advocate for myself or more specifically, I brought it upon myself for being such a nuisance to society. It begs the question to how we treat people here.
Is someone truly addicted or prescribed?
And should we treat all cases as the fault of individual choice if our choice making abilities are altered significantly?

This should've never happened to you, this 'opioid crisis' hysteria is out of control and preventing people who are in pain from accessing anything that could help if there is even an inkling of a chance that it may be addictive, or helping people wean off medications or get to a level where a smaller dose is required. Healthcare system policies in most countries are founded on rationing resources and mitigating liability above all else, and do not take into account the individual patient's needs. Only the individual doctor's career is what's prized.

I grew up in a very rough area and spent most of my childhood surrounded by drug users and deaths everywhere. None of those people had been prescribed opioids or any controlled drugs in a clinical setting before they turned to hard drugs, so I honestly think the opiate hysteria in the US is a massive hoax the media has ran with to cover up the damage dealt by the unmanageable influence of street dealers and cartels that has penetrated north American countries.

This article ( https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/08/what-america-got-wrong-about-opioid-crisis/595090/) straight up says only 22-35% of what they consider drug mis-users had been prescribed any substances by a doctor. It's so glaringly obvious this entire fabricated narrative is concealing the real issue underlying fatality is street slinging, but innocent people like you are the ones being punished instead. Doctors suddenly cutting patients off medication that has built a physical, chemical dependence and willingly causing suffering to save the image of their own pathetic ass is pure evil.

The only person I've ever seen "addicted" to opiods, and I would say the dependency is warranted in this case, was my 70 something year old great uncle who was completely bedridden with severe chronic pain and no quality of life. It makes perfect sense why he would need heavy pain relief to get through another day.

If opioids are so fatal and dangerous in a prescribed setting according to Americans, then I wonder why in the UK we can quite literally buy codeine pills over the counter. Why was I prescribed over a month of them before and after a surgery, and never developed an addiction or urge for recreational use following the regimen? Millions of people take low dose opioids for pain relief when they need it and nothing else has worked, and aren't keeling over in the streets. It's the same with benzos. Benzos can be used responsibility and without danger with proper precautions and planning, to ensure a physical tolerance does not build, but instead of taking that into account those in charge would rather blanket ban everything when there is no good alternative available.

The fatal flaw with many institutions in this day and age is that they are intertwined with an amalgamation of regulations that do not often benefit the users of such organisations (students in education, patients in healthcare, etc) and are designed to protect those in power from legal liability. Having everything regulated to a tee leaves little room for freedom of thought and action in situations that do not fit a perfect mold, and this strict conformity to rules ends up hurting those who fall through the cracks.

While healthcare is the biggest example I can think of (good luck being a person who doesn't respond to a list of approved treatments on a ticked box list in a country with socialized healthcare because they just refuse to help after that point) the institution of education is immensely corrupt as well by infinite rules and regulations.

This doesn't just occur in our individualised western world either, but also in collectivist societies where cultural is heavily influenced by Buddhist doctrines of stoicism, etc. You will see pets and animals suffering greatly towards the end of their lives who desperately require a merciful end, but then individuals following cultural norms influenced by Buddhism will refuse to put the animals down and drag out their suffering because, "that's the rules" if you subscribe to Buddhist teachings. There's no flexibility of thought when stringent rules are involved, and there's even less compassion for a suffering human because you're taught to be stoic.

The most infuriating thing to me during my university education was that my institution had absurdly strict policies and basically had no humanity or leeway for exceptions. A girl got extremely ill during an exam at my campus and had to go to hospital, only to be told she failed the exam and wouldn't be allowed to take it again because she didn't submit a form within the same day and "that's the policy" no exceptions. Who are these insane policies actually benefitting?

Forcing people to behave like robots and follow soulless policies and procedures all the time is probably what's killing a good chunk of humanity's soul in a sense. In many jobs, you can have a drive to help people and sincerely want to, but such regulations prevent you from being personable or taking any productive action. I had a friend who worked for a hotline and got immensely frustrated because they were only allowed to speak from a script and couldn't share any details of their own personal life either that might help them connect with a suicidal person on the other end of the line.

I've also worked in an organisation that regularly dealt with suicidal people, and while my role was more behind the scenes and not dealing with such situations myself, the lack of actual help available to anyone was infuriating. You could tell so many people just really needed pragmatic help, they needed a friend and a supportive person to be their friend and instead just get referred to a billion different defunct MH organisations where a person is keeping a professional distance and doing a job, so they won't actually ever "care" about a person's plight.

TLDR: Everything has become corporate and robotic which means it lacks in actual humanity. It doesn't feel like we have a cohesive society with any sense of cooperation.
 
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Sunset Limited

Sunset Limited

I believe in Sunset Limited
Jul 29, 2019
1,239
We are all wage slaves. If you are not working to sustain the welfare of a few billionaires you have never met or even seen, you are worth less than a plastic bottle. Nobody cares about us.
 
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nembutal

nembutal

everything will be okay in the end
Jul 14, 2022
317
god i wish it was easier to turn a blind fucking eye. im starting to think that suicide is intentionally allowed in order to weed out those who cannot work as efficiently as the healthy.
 
-nobodyknows-

-nobodyknows-

Student
Jun 16, 2024
161
I don't know if I'd go so far as to blame society, but I wouldn't blame the person either. It's just… complicated.

I, for one, simply don't belong.