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daveyc

Member
Jan 9, 2021
33
Every time I contact a helpline it's the old same stuff. I've completely given up on psychiatric services owing to a very traumatising experience, but I sometimes still try to engage with helplines. I've just finished a webchat conversation with a volunteer and it was such a frustrating experience. :( No doubt their intentions were good, but the training these charities provide must teach them to converse like robots.

After they ask why I'm suffering from suicidal thoughts, I usually write a paragraph or two explaining how the essence of what it is to be human is completely missing from my life. I won't put you guys through that, so I'll condense it into a list for context: no family, no friends, no relationships, no hobbies, never had a job, can't even watch TV without smoking weed or taking street amphetamines (I wouldn't be able to write this without amphetamines), I'm terrified of people seeing my face, I only go out to go to the shop and even that is too much. After this I usually get a semi-scripted response feigning concern, something like "that sounds very hard; you're really brave for contacting us".

The rest of the script is as follows: they ask if I have even saught help from a doctor, patronise me by suggesting a trivial coping mechanism, signpost me to a couple of other charities, and then bring the conversation to an abrupt end. They will intermittently remind me how wonderful, brave and smart I am for contacting them, of course.

These services seem to be catered towards people with very modest difficulties. I can understand how they would be useful if, say, sombody had very recently begun to suffer from suicidal thoughts due to money troubles and wasn't sure where to get help, and therefore potentially has a lot to gain from being referred to a charity that supports people who are going through financial difficulties. For those of us with myriad long-term problems they have nothing to offer other than a very disingenuous-seeming "There, there. Life will get better soon". People have been saying that to me for years, so they're either chatting bullcrap or have a very flexible definition of "soon".

I would find it so much more comforting if they would admit they can't do anything to help other than chat to me, and that it does sound as though I'm pretty screwed. Most of the time I don't contact them because I believe they have any answers or am going to end my life there and then: I just don't want to suffer alone, or want to share how I'm feeling with someone. The scripted responses and the rules they're made to follow mean they can't even do that, and reinforces the belief that nobody actually cares. It's really starting to seem that way.
 
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WornOutLife

マット
Mar 22, 2020
7,164
I would actually find it so much more comforting if they would admit they can't do anything to help other than chat to me, and that it does sound as though I'm pretty screwed.

Same here. I would find that so comforting.
When I called, I really needed help and I only ended up more depressed and frustrated because of "the useless system" we have.

We need more communities like SS.
 
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Last chance

Specialist
Feb 6, 2021
346
I havent even bothered calling after reading some of the reports on here. I could call the crisis team but if I decide to stay alive Ill hopefully be starting a new job in May,they will check my medical records and I cant have any mental health issues on there for the last 6 months.
 
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daveyc

Member
Jan 9, 2021
33
Same here. I would find that so comforting.
When I called, I really needed help and I only ended up more depressed and frustrated because of "the useless system" we have.

We need more communities like SS.

I completely agree. I wonder if SS has prevented more suicides than it has facilitated? Though that doesn't matter anyway: we have ownership over our lives, not the state. Whether they like it or not suicide is an option and we should be able to discuss it openly.

I havent even bothered calling after reading some of the reports on here. I could call the crisis team but if I decide to stay alive Ill hopefully be starting a new job in May,they will check my medical records and I cant have any mental health issues on there for the last 6 months.

Please don't let your new job come before your recovery! You should at least try calling the crisis team once to see whether or not it is helpful, and then take it from there. Some things are much more important things than work. I've never had a real job and to be honest getting one isn't that much of a priority: I would take a life where I can read books, stick at hobbies, make friendships and start a family over a good job any day.
 
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Last chance

Specialist
Feb 6, 2021
346
I completely agree. I wonder if SS has prevented more suicides than it has facilitated? Though that doesn't matter anyway: we have ownership over our lives, not the state. Whether they like it or not suicide is an option and we should be able to discuss it openly.



Please don't let your new job come before your recovery! You should at least try calling the crisis team once to see whether or not it is helpful.

The problem I have is that if I call it will mess up the job and make me feel even more hopeless. If I can make it through without calling then at least I might have more of a future to look forward to. Catch 22
 
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daveyc

Member
Jan 9, 2021
33
The problem I have is that if I call it will mess up the job and make me feel even more hopeless. If I can make it through without calling then at least I might have more of a future to look forward to. Catch 22

I've edited my original reply a little, so please read it. :) You will be able to get another job someday! If you're not well enough to work effectively, starting the job could be counterproductive.
 
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Last chance

Specialist
Feb 6, 2021
346
I've edited my original reply a little, so please read it. You will be able to get another job someday! If you're not well enough to work effectively, starting the job could be counterproductive.
Unfortunately I have bills to pay and the industry I currently work in has been shut down for a year because of covid and will be one of the last ones to open up. I put a lot of work into possibly getting this new job,I have been going through the application stages since last October so it seems like a waste to mess it all up so close to the finish line.

At the same time as thinking all that I am also thinking that this new job wont change how I feel and judging by my life so far I probably wont get it anyway so I should just CTB. URGH
 
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daveyc

Member
Jan 9, 2021
33
Unfortunately I have bills to pay and the industry I currently work in has been shut down for a year because of covid and will be one of the last ones to open up. I put a lot of work into possibly getting this new job,I have been going through the application stages since last October so it seems like a waste to mess it all up so close to the finish line.

At the same time as thinking all that I am also thinking that this new job wont change how I feel and judging by my life so far I probably wont get it anyway so I should just CTB. URGH

Is there not a strong welfare state where you live, or do you have responsibilities that mean you absolutely have to maintain your income (e.g. kids)? Again, giving recovery a decent go is the most important thing! :) If that means you need to move, that's a worthwhile sacrifice if it is at all an option. I have been living on state benefits in social housing for a year and a half. It's definitely not a comfortable way to live, but it is doable.

Don't think about CTB unless you have tried every possible avenue to recovery! I feel like I exhausted them all years back, but I still haven't completely given up. :) I am still here after all haha.
 
wordsonscreen

wordsonscreen

Peanuts aren't nuts! They're seeds!
Jan 21, 2021
728
Liability. They'd lose money, control, power. Gotta keep up the lies :) Slowly killing our spirits helps maintain status quo :) good stuff.
 
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daveyc

Member
Jan 9, 2021
33
Liability. They'd lose money, control, power. Gotta keep up the lies :) Slowly killing our spirits helps maintain status quo :) good stuff.

Preach it! It is actually sickening haha.
 
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wordsonscreen

wordsonscreen

Peanuts aren't nuts! They're seeds!
Jan 21, 2021
728
Preach it! It is actually sickening haha.
I'm sorry to hear of your experience, especially because it is so close to my own. I feel like these services exist for "normal" "healthy" people- to make the living feel better. Not for us. What can you see to someone who wants to fucking leave the system???? You cant. You need to set up a whole industry to get them to stay so they want to buy the anti ageing creams :) The system works for what it is meant for- it works for itself, not for the people. So, it is a success. Good job guys :)
 
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daveyc

Member
Jan 9, 2021
33
I'm sorry to hear of your experience, especially because it is so close to my own. I feel like these services exist for "normal" "healthy" people- to make the living feel better. Not for us. What can you see to someone who wants to fucking leave the system???? You cant. You need to set up a whole industry to get them to stay so they want to buy the anti ageing creams :) The system works for what it is meant for- it works for itself, not for the people. So, it is a success. Good job guys :)

Yeah, I agree. Either help us all live fulfilling lives or let us die on our own terms. Don't lead us on by pretending there is help out when there isn't: people will catch on.
 
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wordsonscreen

Peanuts aren't nuts! They're seeds!
Jan 21, 2021
728
Yeah, I agree. Either help us all live fulfilling lives or let us die on our own terms. Don't lead us on by pretending there is help out there when there isn't: people will catch on.
people will catch on
They fucked up​
 
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daveyc

Member
Jan 9, 2021
33
people will catch on
They fucked up​

I imagine we will eventually get to a place where euthanasia and assisted suicide laws are much more lax, in developed countries at least. Pro-life views are predicated on the Christian belief that life is somehow sacred and should be preserved at all costs, even if doing so causes a great deal of human suffering. As we progress towards a more secular and civilised society we will move on from the status quo like we have with abortion.
 
wordsonscreen

wordsonscreen

Peanuts aren't nuts! They're seeds!
Jan 21, 2021
728
I imagine we will eventually get to a place where euthanasia and assisted suicide laws are much more lax, in developed countries at least. Pro-life views are predicated on the Christian belief that life is somehow sacred and should be preserved at all costs, even if doing so causes a great deal of human suffering. As we progress towards a more secular and civilised society we will move on from the status quo like we have with abortion.
I was literally thinking that!!! I really really fucking hope so. And I really wish I had the patience to stick around to see that unfold.
 
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daveyc

Member
Jan 9, 2021
33
I was literally thinking that!!! I really really fucking hope so. And I really wish I had the patience to stick around to see that unfold.

The world is a cruel place for sure, but on balance it is kinder than it has ever been. And it will become kinder still! I was just born a little bit too early. :)
 
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user667

user667

Student
May 11, 2020
255
srsly. so done with this world. hope i hang myself soon :(
 
user667

user667

Student
May 11, 2020
255
Have you had a fairly similar experience to me? I'm really sorry you're suffering.
srry i'm so drunk right now i couldn't focuse on ur whole psyt. but ya they're always so fucking annoying like even if u call for help they tell u stupid shit. and like eventually they just admitted my situation was impossible and they couldn't help. told me to go to fucking therapist and shit like i'm not already in therapy. and i'm on meds. like their version of "help" doesn't help. if anything it makes it worse. so yeah it's ducking a nnouing. they try to placate you with lies about how "it will get better" but it clearly fucking doesn't.
 
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daveyc

Member
Jan 9, 2021
33
srry i'm so drunk right now i couldn't focuse on ur whole psyt. but ya they're always so fucking annoying like even if u call for help they tell u stupid shit. and like eventually they just admitted my situation was impossible and they couldn't help. told me to go to fucking therapist and shit like i'm not already in therapy. and i'm on meds. like their version of "help" doesn't help. if anything it makes it worse. so yeah it's ducking a nnouing. they try to placate you with lies about how "it will get better" but it clearly fucking doesn't.

That's okay, you don't need to apoogise for being drunk. :P I've had them give up on me and end the conversation before too, so I can definitely relate to you.

How long have you been trying therapy and meds for?
 
user667

user667

Student
May 11, 2020
255
That's okay, you don't need to apoogise for being drunk. :P I've had them give up on me and end the conversation before too, so I can definitely relate to you.

How long have you been trying therapy and meds for?
been depressed for abt 2 yrs now (in this episode, had episodes in the past) but i've been fucked up my whole life rlly. i've been in therapy since oct. 2019 and meds since nov. 2019. maybe not as long as some other people but long enough to know this shit doesn't work man. and even if it did i don't even want it. human existence itself is fucked. my brain isn't the problem. i hate everything in my brain but i also hate everything outside of it. so it's not fair for them to act like i just need more meds to numb my brain.
 
wordsonscreen

wordsonscreen

Peanuts aren't nuts! They're seeds!
Jan 21, 2021
728
The world is a cruel place for sure, but on balance it is kinder than it has ever been. And it will become kinder still! I was just born a little bit too early. :)
Am with you there. There is a depth of love as deep as the pain I have felt. The highs are as high as the lows are low. There is a balance to this.
 
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Natty

Student
Jul 27, 2020
138
We know why they can't say that, but it doesn't make any less difficult to hear.

I respect you for trying it, though. I'm usually scared of anything that might even potentially give me temporary hope because the little blips on the radar the resemble happiness just cause me to bottom out even further. The harder I seem to try, the further I fall, so to speak.
 
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wordsonscreen

Peanuts aren't nuts! They're seeds!
Jan 21, 2021
728
We know why they can't say that, but it doesn't make any less difficult to hear.

I respect you for trying it, though. I'm usually scared of anything that might even potentially give me temporary hope because the little blips on the radar the resemble happiness just cause me to bottom out even further. The harder I seem to try, the further I fall, so to speak.
Natty, this feels the same for me. I was JUST thinking about this. I've found a nice community on here and am low key annoyed because the blips of joy are making me drop further down and the fluctuation is fucking with me. Say more?
The harder I try, I fall deeper also.
Like, a few moments of connection (blips) resemble happiness and I can feel good but then the fall is fucking excruciating. Like I physically cannot leave my bed for days.
 
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KuriGohan&Kamehameha

KuriGohan&Kamehameha

想死不能 - 想活不能
Nov 23, 2020
1,682
You know, I've thought similar things about hotlines and such, that they're just a bandaid for the impulsively suicidal who still have something to live for. Not at all representative of the demographics on the site.

I get what you mean about not being heard. Once you've heard the script multiple times and realize they can't offer any pragmatic solutions or true empathy- in fear of losing their jobs- it all feels artificial and fake.

Dont get me wrong, it is a good thing that these services can help some people. I imagine for those who live in cultures where asking for any sort of help is stigmatised, this is a lifeline for them, because they can discreetly get future access to medication and therapy if they've never tried it before.

However, if you've been suicidal for many years and have already went down the conventional path of "help" there is nothing for you. They will just repeat the same trite advice that you've heard many times before. Would it kill others to show some empathy instead? Once you've been on almost 20 meds, and doctors are a main cause of your misery, it is like a slap in the face to be told to try more drugs when there's nothing else to try!

The societal narrative that suicide is a one off event and that ideation isn't brewing in the background is so wrong. I am glad these hotline can prevent impulsive ctb, but where are the resources for those of us who just want to talk to someone earnestly and not be fed a script that has grown trite and unoriginal?

These hotline get treated like a panacea and slapped on everything, as if that helps every single suicidal person.
 
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EmbraceOfTheVoid

EmbraceOfTheVoid

Part Time NEET - Full Time Suicidal
Mar 29, 2020
689
Admitting that they can't help with words for people whose suicidal thoughts aren't a one off would require them to actually offer practical forms of help. Our governments are corrupt and human beings are inherently greedy; they don't want to invest any of their precious time and money to suicidal people that they view as worthless garbage. After all, it's easier for them to delude themselves and pretend they are helping by offering generic advice and pointless platitudes.

My point was that society as a whole can help but they don't want to help.

I used to think that suicide prevention was just another case of good intentions gone too far. That people really did care about those that wanted to die. That they did in fact want what was best for us and simply didn't understand that in some cases, they were doing nothing but prolonging a miserable existence.

And yeah, people are sympathetic, to an extent, to those who are suicidal. Nobody likes seeing someone in so much pain that they would rather die than keep living, but what are they actually willing to do to care for the people in such misery? Not much.

That's why suicide prohibitions and the current paradigm of mental healthcare in general are so convenient for everyone else. Despite claiming to follow the biopsychosocial model of mental health, clinical psychiatry/psychology pretty much leaves the -social part unaddressed and almost unacknowledged. Everyone is perfectly content to pretend that all issues of mental health are a matter of pathology. "Oh it's no problem that you can barely afford to pay your bills. That you've been isolated and ostracized, if not outright abused, for most of your life. There's just a problem with your brain chemistry, here's some pills. Go to some therapy because you clearly need to learn better coping skills."

The nice thing about painting our problems as individual defects or deficiencies, is that the onus is now completely on us to make our lives more livable. If they accepted that people are often driven to suicide by external pressures, that some people actually can't make it on their own, then they would have to make more tangible efforts to support those who are in need. Or they would have to admit that their honest attitude is, "Yeah we'd love for you to be living a satisfying life, but if enabling you to do so requires anything from us, well then fuck off."

Refusing to allow people to freely kill themselves allows the rest of society to feel like they're supporting suicidal people without having to assume any of the burden of those lives. And they know it isn't going to be enough for everyone. That is made abundantly clear by the thousands of people who kill themselves every year despite how difficult they've made it to commit suicide. But when those people inevitably fall through the cracks, everyone will just pat themselves on the back and tell themselves, "We did everything we could to keep them from dying." Yeah, but you did fuck all to give any of us a life worth living. -Suicidal stranger from the internet
 
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wordsonscreen

wordsonscreen

Peanuts aren't nuts! They're seeds!
Jan 21, 2021
728
Admitting that they can't help with words for people whose suicidal thoughts aren't a one off would require them to actually offer practical forms of help. Our governments are corrupt and human beings are inherently greedy; they don't want to invest any of their precious time and money to suicidal people that they view as worthless garbage. After all, it's easier for them to delude themselves and pretend they are helping by offering generic advice and pointless platitudes.

My point was that society as a whole can help but they don't want to help.
Yes, it is a choice. We have chosen systems and power over people.
You know, I've thought similar things about hotlines and such, that they're just a bandaid for the impulsively suicidal who still have something to live for. Not at all representative of the demographics on the site.

I get what you mean about not being heard. Once you've heard the script multiple times and realize they can't offer any pragmatic solutions or true empathy- in fear of losing their jobs- it all feels artificial and fake.

Dont get me wrong, it is a good thing that these services can help some people. I imagine for those who live in cultures where asking for any sort of help is stigmatised, this is a lifeline for them, because they can discreetly get future access to medication and therapy if they've never tried it before.

However, if you've been suicidal for many years and have already went down the conventional path of "help" there is nothing for you. They will just repeat the same trite advice that you've heard many times before. Would it kill others to show some empathy instead? Once you've been on almost 20 meds, and doctors are a main cause of your misery, it is like a slap in the face to be told to try more drugs when there's nothing else to try!

The societal narrative that suicide is a one off event and that ideation isn't brewing in the background is so wrong. I am glad these hotline can prevent impulsive ctb, but where are the resources for those of us who just want to talk to someone earnestly and not be fed a script that has grown trite and unoriginal?

These hotline get treated like a panacea and slapped on everything, as if that helps every single suicidal person.
:( I feel you. This hurts to read but there is nothing but truth here </3
 

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