Discussion Why don’t prolifers at least try to help suicidal people?

[inhabitinglots]

There's something that i've noticed, it's the mere fact that prolifers just want you alive, they don't care if you're miserable or every waking moment is pain, their own selfishness makes them pretend they care. Some genuinely do care, but mainly they just want you alive. Why is that? Why don't they even try to help in any way, shape, or form?

 

[degeneratewaste]

it's the worst. especially when they have things they COULD do to help - a perfect example is like how doctors are super prolife, they have the tools to help, but just neglect you and don't do anything. and then when you actually want to die.... they will just try to keep you alive by sectioning you. it's just pure neglect.

 

[StringPuppet]

I honestly think they really just want more people to suffer with them. I don't even mean this in an accusatory way, I think humans are just naturally afraid of suffering alone, and prolifers don't like that we've found a way to reject suffering that they don't agree with.

 

[inhabitinglots]

it's the worst. especially when they have things they COULD do to help - a perfect example is like how doctors are super prolife, they have the tools to help, but just neglect you and don't do anything. and then when you actually want to die.... they will just try to keep you alive by sectioning you. it's just pure neglect.

Exactly!!! You worded it perfectly, it feels like they just don't care until they realize you might disappear, they only have selfish reasons for wanting you to stick around, and none of it is for your own wellbeing you know?

 

[Heart Shards]

Everyone wants to be a hero without putting forth effort.

 

[inhabitinglots]

I honestly think they really just want more people to suffer with them. I don't even mean this in an accusatory way, I think humans are just naturally afraid of suffering alone, and prolifers don't like that we've found a way to reject suffering that they don't agree with.

I didnt think of it this way but you're right, they don't want to be alone in the suffering, or have more because someone who was with them in that suffering is gone. Our society has made us have such a fear of death, nothing is permanent, not even people. But prolifers think otherwise.

 

[Panna]

Exactly!!! You worded it perfectly, it feels like they just don't care until they realize you might disappear, they only have selfish reasons for wanting you to stick around, and none of it is for your own wellbeing you know?

Pretty much, who cares if the person you "saved" goes through trauma being involuntarily commited, who cares if they never can trust again because you confided in them and they stabbed you in the back. You saved them from a bad thing, give yourself a pat and report it on social media for virtual kudos.

 

[Heart Shards]

Pretty much, who cares if the person you "saved" goes through trauma being involuntarily commited, who cares if they never can trust again because you confided in them and they stabbed you in the back. You saved them from a bad thing, give yourself a pat and report it on social media for virtual kudos.

Their clout after "saving" someone is Fool's Gold as Amy said when she sang the song.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I don't think one can accurately define let alone understand a whole group of people by picking out the actions of a few and then making them all abusers and monsters. There are various reasons why one believes and acts the way they do, and they themselves may use a blanket term like pro-life and each have a different way of defining and acting on what they consider a value rather than focusing on the individual they're using "pro-life" toward or against.

Shawn Shatto's parents, for example, were frustrated that SS's influence overrode their own. They were trying to get Shawn help via treatment, and didn't want to give up on treatment as the answer for Shawn...but Shawn did.

I was pro-life for decades based on the pain and trauma I experienced when a boyfriend committed suicide without any warning signs. My response to that was to focus on my pain, and to use that to shut down any conversation about suicide. Some people just parrot the dominant social beliefs and phrases like a child parrots what their parents believe without any direct experience.

It wasn't until I got free of a lot of codependency beliefs and behaviors that I started accepting people, accepting them having their own experiences and thoughts, and just listening, not trying to interfere in their shit, not taking it on or taking it in, accepting I didn't cause it and didn't have the power to cure or control it. I could listen to someone who was suicidal and show compassion, and feel good when I walked away that they felt better for having talked to me, even if they didn't come to a decision or decide on any course of action. Realistically, most people can't do that. I'm not special, I had to do a lot of work to get to that point, and I didn't know I would end up like that. In the old days, I would have shut down such conversations, guilt-tripped, shamed, suggested/demanded psychiatrist/psychological treatment because I bought into those paradigms of power, called a family member or the cops, etc. I really thought I was doing the best thing and being helpful. I hadn't learned that interfering can cause more harm to the one who's suffering; I did it to someone, I've had it done to me, in both cases abusing and controlling people who one would think of as helpful made the situations worse. I've learned.

My old beliefs and actions weren't because I was a monster. I was doing what I thought was ethical, and sometimes ethics and self-protection seem to one to justify harmful behavior, to hide that it's harmful. At the extreme, ethics can justify isolating and beating a wife or a child, being a terrorist, genocide, manifest destiny, etc.

Being "right" and righteous is dangerous and harmful. If we think we are "right" about pro-lifers, we head down the same path they're on. We want to be understood, but because we're not, we tend to not seek to understand, either. I say from experience, and not on a high horse, that identifying as a victim can lead to some really shitty, abusive, harmful behavior. If we see pro-lifers as monsters and not equally fallible and limited humans, we risk becoming monsters. We risk going to extremes out of our self-identification and frustration, such as trying to do maximum psychological damage with our suicides. We head toward becoming emotionally violent and potentially even more unsafe than those who act unsafely toward us. It is, to me, far worse to harm than to be harmed (Seneca); saying the harm is justified is, to me, doubling down and reinforcing helplessness and giving more power to the power that harms us. I know it's not any easy struggle, I know we're in shit positions, I swear I'm not judging or shaming anyone here, I'm just concerned about what the self-righteous mantle of victim can create underneath it.

 

[262653]

As with abortion, real help to the mother and her child takes resources. Individual resources are limited, and we have priorities. Things like food and shelter, job, family, are usually recieving high priority. The well-being of a bunch of strangers (random mother with her child, random suicidal people) who have no meaningful impact on the well-being of a certain individual would usually recieve low priority for that individual. Low priority tasks recieve low effort -- overly simplistic, thoughtless, and of questionable effectiveness.

 

[ts0hill]

They don't want you to kill urself because they don't want to feel responsible and they don't really see ur pain as a big deal since most pro lifers have never delt with The real pain that makes someone want to end their life, so because of ignorance they can't understand where a suicidal person is coming from. I'm sure if they went through something very painful like a suicidal person has they would not be a "pro lifer" anymore.
.. it's funny how some pro lifers talk about stress.. like that test at school was the most stressful thing I've ever done in my whole life... to myself I'm like that doesn't even compare to the pain or stress a suicidal person feels no wonder people don't understand

 

[GoneGoneGone]

They're too busy with their normie lives, mani/pedi appointments, soccer matches, real world stuff

 

[LonelyDude15]

It is not that prolifers even want you alive, per se, it is just that they see you as unforgivable, subhuman filth. My sister-in-law is a doctor (but still she is not really an adult because mentally defective) and she has been actively aiding my husband to kill me.

She is extremely ugly, stupid, annoying, juvenile and has no libido or life skills. She is insane with fury that going through medical school was not enough to make her present as an adult. She is a sjw for the points and has no real empathy whatsoever.

I hope investigations lead to her losing her undeserved license. And do you know what would happen if you didn't have money, little roach? That muslim black guy would leave you immediately. He thinks you are absolute, pure filth. He cannot even hold your hand EVER. Even your parents know that that musli can barely stand you, but cannot say anythig because you cry racist.

I have less respect for you than even the Abomination, or your dead grandpa who raped your mama.

Ps: Happy birthday fat tomboy, happy birthday fat tomboy murderer with the crooked fangs.

Omg why do you hate Muslim black guys so much?

 

[Samsara]

I wonder whether it's because they can't fathom the idea of experiencing so much pain that you want to end your life, let alone knowing how to help

 

[TattiQueen]

There's something that i've noticed, it's the mere fact that prolifers just want you alive, they don't care if you're miserable or every waking moment is pain, their own selfishness makes them pretend they care. Some genuinely do care, but mainly they just want you alive. Why is that? Why don't they even try to help in any way, shape, or form?

I have noticed this as well, and am not a fan of it. In a lot of cases they are just going with the flow or the crowd, want to support this but are unwilling to actually help those in the position in order to get them in a positive place in which they feel better and also want to live. It's pathetic and sickening, and it's a lot of the problem with society today. I've also seen it in several scenarios which didn't include specifically the prolife argument. They just want to be able to say " Why YES, I'm one of those bright shiny prolifers! I care about others and I mean something!" , when In all actuality they don't, otherwise they'd be putting forth more effort to make a difference for us, rather than just telling us what we should and shouldn't be able to do with our own lives! I am only pro life when it comes to specific abortions, but it's strictly due to the fact that those children didn't ask to be created and preventive measures could have been taken to avoid a pregnancy. Being ignorant, immature, and selfish among other things, I don't see as an excuse.

 

[woxihuanni]

Omg why do you hate Muslim black guys so much?

Since he never interacted with the family beyond sullen looks and watching sports on his phone at us, I have zero reasons to like him.

 

[LonelyDude15]

Since he never interacted with the family beyond sullen looks and watching sports on his phone at us, I have zero reasons to like him.

I'm sorry you have to go through that he seems quite rude and cold. I would just be a bit more careful with how things are phrased that statement can be read in a very negative way and their are alot of diverse people who use this forum. Sending peace.

 

[checkouttime]

They can't even help friends or relatives, the certainly aren't going to be help total strangers. If they made as much effort towards their when there friends/relatives were alive as they did to making fake profiles up. maybe there friends/relatives would still be alive. Although they didn't give much of a fuck about them when they were here to be fair, so i wouldn't count on them for help

Its useless trying to make an effort after someone CTB, surely the aim is to make it so it does;t happen in the 1st place. not very good at there 'job' are they

 

[LastFlowers]

Pretty much, who cares if the person you "saved" goes through trauma being involuntarily commited, who cares if they never can trust again because you confided in them and they stabbed you in the back. You saved them from a bad thing, give yourself a pat and report it on social media for virtual kudos.

Exactly. People disgust me.

They can't even help friends or relatives, the certainly aren't going to be help total strangers. If they made as much effort towards their when there friends/relatives were alive as they did to making fake profiles up. maybe there friends/relatives would still be alive. Although they didn't give much of a fuck about them when they were here to be fair, so i wouldn't count on them for help

Its useless trying to make an effort after someone CTB, surely the aim is to make it so it does;t happen in the 1st place. not very good at there 'job' are they

If my family joins the suicide prevention brigade after my passing, I may define logic and reason to swirl my own ashes into a tornado to obliterate their disingenuous, pointless, too little-too late, virtue-signaling, arrogant, straight up mockery of my death and everything I was about.
Honestly, I wish I could have the majority of them not even be informed of my suicide when the time comes.
I am already requesting no announcement, no funeral, no obituary (I cringe just imagining the shit they would say or portray, none or them even know who I am), and sure as HELL no gathering or viewing (JFC)..I just want to be cremated and thrown far away from them all.

 

[innocent21]

Because all they think about is how much they love the person or at least the affinity they have to humanity and the human condiiton, so they have a one track mind to only focus on how much they'll miss them after they're gone. If it's a stranger, they place someone they know into that stranger's scenario.

 

[FuneralCry]

I feel like many pro lifers often do not help as they do not understand. They are not suicidal themselves so they cannot comprehend what it is like. Mental illnesses for example are invisible suffering, only those who have it themselves know how debilitating it is. However they do not want you to die out of selfishness, and as humans we have an instinct to try and save others.

 

[JustLosingMyself]

Not particularly helpful, or accurate for that matter.
Holding the belief that there's always another way does not inherently mean they want people "to suffer in their miserable lives just because life is Chtulhu's sacred gift". Most genuinely wish to help, however poorly they go about it.
Each being in an echo chamber where we reinforce each other's convictions drives everyone further apart in mutual incomprehension. The language used (hyperbole and absolutes) by some isn't helping either.
Whatever happened to "Let's agree to disagree but work together"?

 

[LastFlowers]

Not particularly helpful, or accurate for that matter.
Holding the belief that there's always another way does not inherently mean they want people "to suffer in their miserable lives just because life is Chtulhu's sacred gift". Most genuinely wish to help, however poorly they go about it.
Each being in an echo chamber where we reinforce each other's convictions drives everyone further apart in mutual incomprehension. The language used (hyperbole and absolutes) by some isn't helping either.
Whatever happened to "Let's agree to disagree but work together"?

You must live in a different universe,
OP's post absolutely is accurate.
Hyperbole? Seriously..have you read some of the things those against suicide have written?
Hyperbole is nothing in the face of their bullshit, and the sad part is, most people here are not exaggerating this issue.
I do not Agree to disagree on the matter of life and death and keeping a suffering person alive, just to suffer even more intensely.
That is much too serious and detrimental to simply "agree to disagree", I will disagree with those who want to prevent my natural right to end my life-and anyone else invested in having their rights acknowledged by their family, the general public, and the law, should do the same.
You can't work together on this subject if you agree to disagree, all causes that encounter actual progress require a relatively singular mindset, at least on the whole of what they're fighting for.
They would have to agree with us, and us with them, to ever work together on the actual issue of the 'right to die.'
(We're not baking pies here, this is not trite.)

Most genuinely wish to help?
You know these people personally?
Define "help"..
The belief that there's always another way is a false belief and needs to be called out as such.
"Another way" by prolifer's definition, usually means "Their way or the highway".

 

[JustLosingMyself]

You must live in a different universe,
OP's post absolutely is accurate.
Hyperbole? Seriously..have you read some of the things those against suicide have written?
Hyperbole is nothing in the face of their bullshit, and the sad part is, most people here are not exaggerating this issue.
I do not Agree to disagree on the matter of life and death and keeping a suffering person alive, just to suffer even more intensely.
That is much too serious and detrimental to simply "agree to disagree", I will disagree with those who want to prevent my natural right to end my life-and anyone else invested in having their rights acknowledged by their family, the general public, and the law, should do the same.
You can't work together on this subject if you agree to disagree, all causes that encounter actual progress require a relatively singular mindset, at least on the whole of what they're fighting for.
They would have to agree with us, and us with them, to ever work together on the actual issue of the 'right to die.'
(We're not baking pies here, this is not trite.)

Most genuinely wish to help?
You know these people personally?
Define "help"..
The belief that there's always another way is a false belief and needs to be called out as such.
"Another way" by prolifer's definition, usually means "Their way or the highway".

Thank you for making my point for me

 

[checkouttime]

Because all they think about is how much they love the person or at least the affinity they have to humanity and the human condiiton, so they have a one track mind to only focus on how much they'll miss them after they're gone. If it's a stranger, they place someone they know into that stranger's scenario.

exactly how much they miss them after there gone, wasn't so bothered when they were here though were they. Then a random stranger is meant to trust someone who can't even make an effort for their own family/ friend. not exactly a glowing report of their credentials is it!

Not particularly helpful, or accurate for that matter.
Holding the belief that there's always another way does not inherently mean they want people "to suffer in their miserable lives just because life is Chtulhu's sacred gift". Most genuinely wish to help, however poorly they go about it.
Each being in an echo chamber where we reinforce each other's convictions drives everyone further apart in mutual incomprehension. The language used (hyperbole and absolutes) by some isn't helping either.
Whatever happened to "Let's agree to disagree but work together"?

And what make they think they are in a position to help? because there relative or friend has CTB, that not exactly a good way of showing people you want to 'help' them.

they think they know peoples situation and they don't. as i have posted before people can relate to others but they can never TRLY know how another human being feels, as everyone is UNIQUE. I wish i could make everything in the world perfect, i'm not naive to think i can though.

they think their sum sort of saviour or god, and want there five minutes of fame on social media.

And making fake profiles on suicde websites is also not a glowing report of someones character who wants tosave people. It shows they are already a deceitful, manipulative person in the 1st place. coupled with the fact they didn't save' there friend/ relative and fuck me what a CV they have.

They'll be recommending jimmy saville as a child minder, or jefrey Dahmer being your chef. about as much use as a chocolate fire guard, with a CV to prove it!