T

Thatdude

Life is temporary, death is permanent
Sep 26, 2019
473
I don't want to get political, but it seems kinda off how someone who is for the most part normal but suicidal. It's odd how that can land them into a psychiatric ward. To me it seems like as long as it is thought out, and the in a clear mind wants to do it. It seems like they should be allowed to do it as long as it doesn't put anyone else in danger, and they are doing the act in the privacy of their own home.
Like isn't it my body my choice? (I'm honestly thinking about going on several social media places to push to add to allow for suicide with the my body my choice thing)

Anyone have any ideas on why this is the case?

Side note: How does someone make money while in a ward? Like if you were to be held for a long period of time. I don't understand how someone has enough to get them by until they get a job.
 
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GreenDagny

GreenDagny

Member
Oct 9, 2019
49
I think it is because death scares most people so much. Also they are imposing their belief that you may possibly regret it. And now there is this massive suicide prevention movement going on which is not going to help at all. Lastly most do not understand so all they feel is sadness which makes them blind to rationality. Those are some reasons in my opinion.

I have never met anyone who was able to make money in a hospital. I would guess it would depend on where you are and if you have access to the internet to possibly sell things or do online jobs? People in the U.S. have to file bankruptcy for hospital stays sometimes. It costs tens of thousands of dollars depending on stay time. And they leave more suicidal.
 
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Sweet emotion

Sweet emotion

Enlightened
Sep 14, 2019
1,325
Because people are supposed to love life no matter how miserable it is.
 
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A

A3re733

Member
Aug 29, 2019
65
It shows that it works and inspires others to kill themselves
It means one less slave working

Your entire purpose is to be consumed and used completely and utterly.

Why the hell would you be given a way out of this system? That's like purposely shooting yourself in the foot.

Lol wtf? You think the elite dislike money?
 
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Astral316

Astral316

Specialist
Aug 26, 2019
332
Because helping someone to ctb is against the law so following the law equates to the opposite of helping which is preventing. Basically people look out for themselves... they don't want to lose their jobs or face prison time so they "out" suicidal people asap.
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,813
Good answers by everyone on this thread so far. To add to this, I will say that religion also plays a big role in shaping the modern secular stance of anti-suicide, and suicide prevention. It sucks and I hate it, especially for all the reasons stated. As doing so on social media, I would be very, very careful as that may invite some overzealous goody two shoes who feels like playing hero and calling authorities to intervene when you weren't really in any danger. It's gotten so awful that even a rational discussion about the right to die, my body my right seems to be sidelined and dismissed by society and the psychiatry field. In fact, I do believe that people who come out of the psych ward are oftenly in worse situations especially if they had a long stay and/or lost their source of income (their job), place to stay, and/or other consequences. They do in fact, really end up CTB'ing afterwards.
 
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Edward Smith

New Member
Oct 12, 2019
3
Unless you got concrete plans to end your life in the forseeable future they won't put you in a psych-ward.

It's in our genetics to survive as a species so that's why we go to great lengths to help sucicdal people to live.
 
H

hypo666

Member
Jun 3, 2019
57
I have been in the psychiatric ward twice for short periods of time this last couple of months , one admission was 10 days the other 4 days, in the UK at least you normally don't get put into hospital for suicidal ideation, I think it's where they think there is an immediate risk or someone has researched and has plans that they start thinking about admission. The reasons I got admitted for 10 days was only partly due to suicidal ideation, in my case it's also because apparently anger is part of my 'illness' and Iam a risk to others when my moods are swinging like that and they wanted to look at my medication.

The 4 day admission was for severe anxiety caused partly because of my accomodation is uncertain which has unsettled me and also because I had a side effect from a med called haldolperidol which caused me to get agitated and I was withdrawing from it. The severe anxiety caused me to keep moving my legs and pacing .I was pacing round the back garden when the ambulance turned up and I was taken to hospital. I was given valium and another med which helps with the side effect. I was also taken off haldol and it was replaced with risperidone.
 
Neurodamaged2

Neurodamaged2

Member
Oct 28, 2019
69
In Canada they throw you in the psych ward pretty easily if you even hint you're suicidal in any way. Psych wards keep undesirables from the rest of society, feed big pharma / healthcare coffers, keep psychs and nurses employed, and make society feel like it's "healing" the mentally ill. All they really are, are prisons where they feed you drugs and at worst electroshock (lobotomy) you. At best you get discharged with an SSRI or something low-damage but god forbid you get the anti-psychotics or ECT, you're fucked. And don't get me started on how they dole out benzo's like candy without regard to withdrawal afterward.
 
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metalchic_74

metalchic_74

Gone Girl
Oct 26, 2019
260
In Canada they throw you in the psych ward pretty easily if you even hint you're suicidal in any way. Psych wards keep undesirables from the rest of society, feed big pharma / healthcare coffers, keep psychs and nurses employed, and make society feel like it's "healing" the mentally ill. All they really are, are prisons where they feed you drugs and at worst electroshock (lobotomy) you. At best you get discharged with an SSRI or something low-damage but god forbid you get the anti-psychotics or ECT, you're fucked. And don't get me started on how they dole out benzo's like candy without regard to withdrawal afterward.
Story of my life! I'm 45 been in mental hospital over 10x in the past 15 years. I've been on every drug cocktail there is. I'm addicted to Benzo's and Seroquel. I completely lost the ability to sleep naturally on my own completely dependent on them! I was diagnosed with bipolar after I had a manic psychosis episode. I absolutely hate my life. I wish I never took any of these damn pills! I've been suicidal for the past 2 years with 4 attempts. I just can't take it anymore. Mental illness sucks!!
 
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T

Thatdude

Life is temporary, death is permanent
Sep 26, 2019
473
In Canada they throw you in the psych ward pretty easily if you even hint you're suicidal in any way. Psych wards keep undesirables from the rest of society, feed big pharma / healthcare coffers, keep psychs and nurses employed, and make society feel like it's "healing" the mentally ill. All they really are, are prisons where they feed you drugs and at worst electroshock (lobotomy) you. At best you get discharged with an SSRI or something low-damage but god forbid you get the anti-psychotics or ECT, you're fucked. And don't get me started on how they dole out benzo's like candy without regard to withdrawal afterward.


I think it is interesting how much of what goes on is directly against some of the Geneva Convention. Part of the rules is that the country won't experiment on its own citizens. Like my point is, POW get treated better in places that follow the rules. Thank god we don't have the snake pits like we use to. But I have no doubt that would start back up in a split second, and I have no doubt many of the doctors don't think twice on the ethics on what they do.

I wish I never took any of these damn pills!

Wouldn't they force it into you?

I never been in a mental hospital, and I've done everything to avoid it. With their history, mental hospitals scare the shit out of me.
Like I know they haven't gotten much better because my aunt sent her daughter to 1 when the kid was in HS. After seeing how she was and how they treated her. My aunt pulled her out immediately. She said they had her on drugs that made her into a drooling stump. And all her problem was being autistic.
 
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metalchic_74

metalchic_74

Gone Girl
Oct 26, 2019
260
I think it is interesting how much of what goes on is directly against some of the Geneva Convention. Part of the rules is that the country won't experiment on its own citizens. Like my point is, POW get treated better in places that follow the rules. Thank god we don't have the snake pits like we use to. But I have no doubt that would start back up in a split second, and I have no doubt many of the doctors don't think twice on the ethics on what they do.



Wouldn't they force it into you?

I never been in a mental hospital, and I've done everything to avoid it. With their history, mental hospitals scare the shit out of me.
Like I know they haven't gotten much better because my aunt sent her daughter to 1 when the kid was in HS. After seeing how she was and how they treated her. My aunt pulled her out immediately. She said they had her on drugs that made her into a drooling stump. And all her problem was being autistic.
It's like jail. They take away your cell phone. Force every one to stay in one room doing these stupid groups. I think the only enjoyment I got was smoke breaks. It's boring as hell! And the doctors are complete ignorant assholes
 
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BlueWidow

BlueWidow

Visionary
Oct 6, 2019
2,179
I definitely agree with Neurodamged2. A big part of the reason they do it is to keep the "crazies" away from the rest of society. We wouldn't want any "normals" having to deal with the "crazies". And it's automatically assumed that you're mentally ill or something just because you want to end your life. These people can't deal with the idea that there may be some perfectly valid and logical reasons why a person might choose to end their own life. I feel like I've spent so much time thinking about this and working on it that what I'm doing is extremely rational.
I think it is interesting how much of what goes on is directly against some of the Geneva Convention. Part of the rules is that the country won't experiment on its own citizens. Like my point is, POW get treated better in places that follow the rules. Thank god we don't have the snake pits like we use to. But I have no doubt that would start back up in a split second, and I have no doubt many of the doctors don't think twice on the ethics on what they do.



Wouldn't they force it into you?

I never been in a mental hospital, and I've done everything to avoid it. With their history, mental hospitals scare the shit out of me.
Like I know they haven't gotten much better because my aunt sent her daughter to 1 when the kid was in HS. After seeing how she was and how they treated her. My aunt pulled her out immediately. She said they had her on drugs that made her into a drooling stump. And all her problem was being autistic.
At the age of 14, I was in a psych ward as well. I was also pumped full of drugs until I was nothing more than a walking zombie. I didn't want to do anything but sleep because they had me on so many different drugs. I have no proof of it, but I'm 100% positive that some of the physical and mental problems that I have at this point had to have been caused by being forced to be on all of those drugs even though they weren't helping my depression, my suicidal tendencies, or my psychotic episodes at all.
 
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Neurodamaged2

Neurodamaged2

Member
Oct 28, 2019
69
I think it is interesting how much of what goes on is directly against some of the Geneva Convention. Part of the rules is that the country won't experiment on its own citizens. Like my point is, POW get treated better in places that follow the rules. Thank god we don't have the snake pits like we use to. But I have no doubt that would start back up in a split second, and I have no doubt many of the doctors don't think twice on the ethics on what they do.



Wouldn't they force it into you?

I never been in a mental hospital, and I've done everything to avoid it. With their history, mental hospitals scare the shit out of me.
Like I know they haven't gotten much better because my aunt sent her daughter to 1 when the kid was in HS. After seeing how she was and how they treated her. My aunt pulled her out immediately. She said they had her on drugs that made her into a drooling stump. And all her problem was being autistic.

They use social pressure to get you to take the pills. They talk to you and your family, extolling how this is the treatment, and denying it is very difficult socially for an average person. You don't want to upset the doc and you don't want them telling your family you're 'not cooperating with treatment'. Additionally, they can take away your ability to make treatment decisions with a simple form, which is difficult to fight when you're not well. ECT is getting back in vogue in Canadian hospitals (specifically Toronto) and it's being used like its a cure-all when really it's a small electric lobotomy. Psychs have zero concern for consequences of drugs or ECT, their only concern is if you commit suicide because then they could lose their licence. Other than that it's a free reign for these people.

Youtube Dr Breggin MD for excellent videos on ECT and other 'psychiatric treatments'.
 
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Partial-Elf

Partial-Elf

Eternal Oblivion
Dec 26, 2018
461
All the answers above are accurate but I have a few more.

Why are people involuntarily committed to psych wards for social plans?
  • Liability. As someone who's worked in a job tangential to mental health providers: docs, therapists, teachers, and so on could have a PITA on their hands if they don't report you and you off yourself or make a scene
  • Self Righteous moms. Hinted at previously in this thread, there's an anti suicide effort largely fueled by blubbering self righteous moms. They think because their depressed child offed themself it's the fault of the system and they demand change (in the form of more overbearing mental health laws, mind you–not the kind of structural changes that would actually make people's lives better). So they run to the news stations and the politicians and give 'em one of these: ;-;
  • In our landscape, it's much harder for politicians to make a nuanced argument in favor of reasonable treatment for us. Instead, most voters operate on the level of simplistic gut reaction which is easier to satisfy with the whole "life is a magical gift that must be protected at all costs" rhetoric. It would be so easy for political opponents to misrepresent a supportive politician's arguments by saying something like, "my opponent hates life and wants your son or daughter to commit suicide."
And to emphasize one of the points from a different poster above, the politicians and CEOs really do want you to be alive (and have BABIEEES). That way you and your dutiful offspring can work and buy things and prop up entitlement programs like Medicare and social security. If you stick around and buy some more stuff off of amazon, the economy will continue to grow and the capitalists will continue to gain money and power, but they can't profit off of you much if you're dead after the funeral and related expenses.

I was originally skeptical of this line of thinking when I encountered it on here because of the use of radical sounding terms like "wage slave." But then I happened to go to some economic development organization meetings for my city and the wage slave thing is 100% right. The people in charge talk a lot about average age of the community, fertility rates, taxes collected, etc.

Reading about suicide, you'll quickly come across a line like, "the economic impact of suicide in the US is estimated to be $x billion per year."

And as for how to pay for it, don't worry about that! We'll just go into debt like we do for everything else in this country.
 
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T

Thatdude

Life is temporary, death is permanent
Sep 26, 2019
473
Additionally, they can take away your ability to make treatment decisions with a simple form..... Psychs have zero concern for consequences of drugs or ECT, their only concern is if you commit suicide because then they could lose their licence. Other than that it's a free reign for these people.

That's the thing that scares me about these places. If you get a good doctor, then everything is OK. But the checks and balance isn't there for if the doctor has questionable morals and ethics.
The other thing that causes me to not like these places is in the wrong hand it could cause major problems. Say you have a serious government revolution going on, or maybe it is known you're for a given person (lets say Trump). You aren't violent, and if it is a revolution it isn't violent. In my area, you can be locked up for 72 hours. If you have a questionable doctor, within the 72 hours. They can say you are a harm to others and yourself. From there, I think they can hold you for 3 years. You can fight it, but as you mentioned it is a nightmare. And because they can screw with your brain/body with drugs and other treatments. It can permanently change you. Look up ethogenics in American wards and how they sterilized the "unwanted". And how many of the people this happened to are still alive, and the gov told them to get over it a few years back.

In short, it honestly wouldn't be hard to corrupt if the wrong people were in the right places. And it is doubtful much would be questioned based on the history of these places.

With all that being said, I wonder what these places would be like if AI was running them. This would take the potential corruption out, this could tell the doctors what treatment is best, and it might help people from going in there in the first place. Because I think this side discussion is interesting, I'm starting a new thread on it here.
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/what-do-you-think-about-ai-running-a-psychiatric-ward.24910/
 
WhiteDespair

WhiteDespair

The Temporary Problem is Life
Oct 24, 2019
837
People who don't want to CtB, and/or never had CtB ideation, lack the frame of reference to understand why. So, they project their mentality that life is wonderful and should be cherished onto those who want to CtB. It's like trying do describe a color to a blind person.

I don't want to get political, but it seems kinda off how someone who is for the most part normal but suicidal. It's odd how that can land them into a psychiatric ward. To me it seems like as long as it is thought out, and the in a clear mind wants to do it. It seems like they should be allowed to do it as long as it doesn't put anyone else in danger, and they are doing the act in the privacy of their own home.
Like isn't it my body my choice? (I'm honestly thinking about going on several social media places to push to add to allow for suicide with the my body my choice thing)

Anyone have any ideas on why this is the case?

Side note: How does someone make money while in a ward? Like if you were to be held for a long period of time. I don't understand how someone has enough to get them by until they get a job.

My body, my choice is a lie. The US has selective service. This means your choice is to register and get drafted into the military or go to jail and/or pay a fine. There is no option otherwise. There is no choice. If the government wants to arrest you they can do it and, if you resist, they can force you to comply via methods and punishments up to and including death. This can happen even if you are innocent and/or mistakenly identified or suspected. You can be involuntarily forced into a psych ward and forced to stay until someone decides you can leave. You're at the mercy and discretion of the government.
 
bigj75

bigj75

“From Knowledge springs power."
Sep 1, 2018
2,540
it's all cultural based. how you were raised. suicide was looked up as a ritual and honorable if you fail in life or get captured by the enemy (Japanese/Chinese). Spartans/Vikings used to mock those who didn't die on the battlefield. death and suicide is all how you were raised. most people in the US today look down upon it.
 
I

itsallover

Arcanist
Jun 29, 2018
478
Christian founders of the U.S.= non-suicidal country.
 
FTL.Wanderer

FTL.Wanderer

Enlightened
May 31, 2018
1,782
Anyone have any ideas on why this is the case?

I get the feeling you're asking rhetorically. I read a paper last year about the history of psychiatry and how it has been increasingly used to shape society. In the US, there are strong government and industry pushes to have ALL school children through high school tested every few years to assess their mental states. What such a policy might lead to, given the powers psychiatrists and the mental health community have and psychiatry's track record, is mind-boggling.
 
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Thatdude

Life is temporary, death is permanent
Sep 26, 2019
473
I get the feeling you're asking rhetorically. I read a paper last year about the history of psychiatry and how it has been increasingly used to shape society. In the US, there are strong government and industry pushes to have ALL school children through high school tested every few years to assess their mental states. What such a policy might lead to, given the powers psychiatrists and the mental health community have and psychiatry's track record, is mind-boggling.

It wasn't a rhetorical question. At the time I was studying a lot of Greek philosophy, and I seen where suicide was OK. Like there is statements saying something like if you can't find rivers of happiness, then turn over your wrist. I looked into it, and while it wasn't really looked in a favorable light. More than less, you could get help if you have a legit reason.
But in the world today, no reason is looked as a legit reason. But at the same time killing an unborn (or in some areas born) kid is. It doesn't add up.

Anyways, what you pointed out is something that worries me. Not so much if they are just looking for things like depression, learning disabilities, etc. But with this Trump thing going on and how anti-Trump many in professional fields are. If a kid says they like Trump (or any person that is the target). What happens if you have a nut job doing the evaluation?
Like with this socialist revolution going on right now. I've seen people exile for finding flaws in socialism, and asking legit normal questions.
This is why I'm a huge fan of a good AI finding out what is wrong with someone.
 
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notjustyetagain

notjustyetagain

Oct 28, 2019
169
"my body my choice" isn't the way it works though, because of how death is viewed in most cultures.

by and large, people fear death, and suicide is viewed either as taboo or obligatory (taboo in western culture). the old chestnut of "can a sane person commit suicide?" has imo been cracked millennia ago, but in many systems the short, incorrect answer is "no, because there's something wrong with death". what is termed wellbeing is, by default, given over to life alone because of this delusion, with the suffering inherent to life being viewed as a pathology to cure, rather than life being viewed as pathological in its own right. it's understandable, if disagreeable, to me.

i've had at least forty psych ward admissions. they were everything from a bed and meal after a stint of homelessness to forced antipsychotics, some of which are very unpleasant. i believe will-to-life is a biological imperative and its resultant hierarchies aren't as conspiratorial or inexplicable as i've seen them viewed here, and don't have as bleak a view of others' intentions when it comes to telling authorities about suicidal ideation. i've evidently been force-fed a lot of kool-aid.

i believe a lot of the staff i've met in my stays at psych wards were genuinely compassionate people who wished an end to my suffering, but the blunt-force trauma of "but death!" and the biological will-to-life was stamped indelibly on their views of how to acquire it. i've had many discussions with nurses about my views that life's inherent pathologies were a clue as to how to end them, and was usually met with a warm stare of incomprehension and the offer of antipsychotics and a cup of fetid tea.

the laziest nurses would routinely tell me that "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" -- as if a permanent solution WASN'T BLINDINGLY THE BEST CHOICE IN THE MORASS OF EVERY OTHER _TEMPORARY_ SOLUTION! it's easy to be blindsided by the sheer force of life; i do admire it on biochemical grounds, but consciousness is imo the greatest tragedy to strike the universe. still, it's difficult to begrudge others their enjoyment of life when expecting them not to begrudge me my dissatisfaction with it.

treatment schedules depends on one's status regarding suicidality. when actively suicidal, i was placed on mental-health act "forms" -- involuntary detentions limiting various freedoms and forcing various "degrees" of treatment, necessitating either a change of mind or lying to the doctor regarding one's view of suicide. by and large wards are broken up into voluntary and involuntary sections; involuntary sections have been very secure/restrictive in terms of movement (though i'll never forget seeing a professional acrobat crawl his way over a ~4m fence by boost-jumping off a garden lamp) and belongings (no belts/shoelaces/cigarette lighters, plastic cutlery, etc.).

involuntary sections were occasionally dangerous, with violent patients in various stages of psychopathy harming others, twice severely. with the rise of methamphemaine use i've seen involuntary wards become increasingly full of addicts. it was sad to see people who had deep-fried their brains more than ect ever could, and occasionally there was no "coming back" for such cases -- patients who'd been in for years and were still deep-fried.

i've had six courses of 12 ect treatments and don't understand its view as a "lobotomy". it's my understanding that it's not done without adequate anaesthesia or muscle relaxants these days. in voluntary wards, patients routinely come in for "top-up" ect treatments that they've had for weeks to decades with no impairment to their mental capacity, at least in my conversations with them. many say ect has given them their quality of life back. i LOVED my ect treatments and wouldn't mind having more -- the feeling of the methohexital taking over, for the brief couple of seconds it lasts, felt better than heroin.

regarding money in psychiatric wards, in my country there are social workers who can help you with acquiring some government assistance, but until then patients remain penniless. i would routinely come in without adequate clothing and this was provided (basic trackpants, shirt, socks) and without money for a few weeks. when i was homeless i would routinely come in and leave without a cent to go back to homelessness -- "i'll stay with a friend" is easy to say. patients in countries without government assistance to their patients are dependent on friends/relatives, to my understanding.
 
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itsallover

Arcanist
Jun 29, 2018
478
I get the feeling you're asking rhetorically. I read a paper last year about the history of psychiatry and how it has been increasingly used to shape society. In the US, there are strong government and industry pushes to have ALL school children through high school tested every few years to assess their mental states. What such a policy might lead to, given the powers psychiatrists and the mental health community have and psychiatry's track record, is mind-boggling.
I wish they assesssed my mental state back then. They just constantly sent me to the counselor and once to the school therapist who also didn't give a shit. Fuck the school system. Keep the shootings coming because it all starts from teachers who don't give a damn. We've all had plenty of those. They have a big g responsibility and all they do is complain about their pay so go ahead and allow the bullying and more school shooters to continue.
 
R

Reyki6667

Student
Oct 11, 2019
177
"Because it's insane tO wish foR your Own DeATH"
 

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