Venting Why do they think it’s a choice to be depressed or suicidal?

[Stroopwafel.]

Why do people think it's a damn choise to be suicidal? Or depressed? I'm in a psychiatric hospital right now for 5 months and it's by far the best place I've been in.

But damn, why can't they just understand that it's not a choice to be suicidal, they think I sometimes use my depression as an 'excuse' to feel and act like I do. They clearly haven't been depressed and suicidal themselves for almost 6 years straight.

It just hurts me a lot. This weekend I had an extremely bad weekend. With lots op depression and lots of suicidal thoughts and making plans, things like that, I and I was not able to get out of my bed for more than a few hours. And than today I talk about it with my therapist and they are like 'do you think you can continue the treatment this way?' It's the second time since I'm here that this happens, I feel at my WORST and they are like 'you aren't committed enough' yeah well fuck, I am committed but I can't be like that literally 24/7 with a depression like this.

Some days depression wins, most of the days I win. But there are days that my depression wins it all. And that's NOT a damn choise I make. It's NOT an excuse. No one can fight a severe depression 24/7 for 6 years. Please don't expect that from me. It's not fair, it's not realistic. IT'S NOT.

Yes I have plans, I wanna have a 'plan b' for when this fails. And yes, I wanna think about it now, I wanna figure out my way now, because I won't have time for that when it comes to the point that I choose to leave. But I do not choose to go at the moment. But than they think I can't fully follow the therapy, because the last few weeks I've been 'with one leg in my grave', as my therapist described. Well, guess what, I've literally been for many years now. But that doesn't mean I don't wanna try to fix this shit, I just don't know how to do it anymore. I've tried so much for years, nothing works. I have to be realistic that maybe nothing will work, so yes I have to work on another plan. Doesn't mean I'm gonna do it next week.

Therapists just can accept the fact that this world is not made for some people and that they can't save everyone, and it's so damn frustrating at moments like this. I just want someone to understand me, instead of judge me. The longer this takes and the more I try (and fails), the harder it gets to keep fighting. I'm not ready to give up yet, I'm not. But don't expect me to win from the depression every single day, because some days depression wins. And that's it. It's not an excuse. It's not a choice. It's just how depression works.

I told them if they expect me to be able to fight this 24/7, that I can not do that and indeed maybe I should quit and leave. Also they make a huge thing out of this 1 time it went wrong. It's like they forget about the 99 other times I did actually ask them for help, that I did fight very hard. It went wrong a few months ago as well, and the exact same thing happend. It just hurts a lot... I wish they would understand what it is to feel this way for so many years. You do lose hope, every day I lose hope a tiny bit more. And that's not because I WANT to.

 

[WornOutLife]

Well, you're completely right.

Being suicidal is not a choice. It's just the way our minds work.
Some people are programmed to live no matter what, we're programmed to ctb and be depressed.

 

[Sensei]

When I developed bipolar disorder, a psychiatrist told me: "You have to realize that nobody will understand what you're going through, unless they've gone through the same thing themselves." I think this is the explanation. People can't understand what we're going through. It makes the journey through the darkness even more lonely.

 

[BandAddict]

I understand completely. It's ridiculous to expect someone to fight nonstop and never get tired. I'm sorry they're so dismissive of your efforts. It really does seem like you're giving it a good go, if I'm not too assumptive.

And yeah, it really isn't always a choice. I wish I could say it was, because I'd love to choose to just be positive and hardworking all the damn time. Wouldn't that be great? It's not always realistic, though. Sure, you can technically "choose" to stay in bed instead getting up to maybe take a shower or something because it's "refreshing" or whatnot, but that in itself does take energy, and why let my energy fall below zero for a shower when laying in bed feels "safer".

Idk what I'm saying, just rambling. Anyway, you're not alone in this, and I hope you don't let their unrealistic expectations negate all you've put into making it each and every day just to stick around for the time being.

 

[usernameforhere]

Makes them feel safe. Nothing to do with you

 

[Stroopwafel.]

When I developed bipolar disorder, a psychiatrist told me: "You have to realize that nobody will understand what you're going through, unless they've gone through the same thing themselves." I think this is the explanation. People can't understand what we're going through. It makes the journey through the darkness even more lonely.

Your psychiatrist is so right about that. And yes it does make me feel very lonely at times. And often, completely misunderstood.

The people who work in here are great, they really are. It's the first place in all those years where I can say something like this. I've gotten some serious ptsd from my previous experiences in the mental health care. And I do like this place, I really do. But there's always this thing that they can't understand.

They are like 'you need to be open about your suicidal thoughts so that we can help you' 'NO NOT THAT OPEN' and it confuses me a lot.

 

[Sensei]

Another point I forgot to include: people forget that it's a matter of well established and diagnosed illnesses. Nevertheless, they are treated totally different from physical illnesses. No one would say to a cancer patient that they "choose" to have cancer.

 

[Stroopwafel.]

I understand completely. It's ridiculous to expect someone to fight nonstop and never get tired. I'm sorry they're so dismissive of your efforts. It really does seem like you're giving it a good go, if I'm not too assumptive.

And yeah, it really isn't always a choice. I wish I could say it was, because I'd love to choose to just be positive and hardworking all the damn time. Wouldn't that be great? It's not always realistic, though. Sure, you can technically "choose" to stay in bed instead getting up to maybe take a shower or something because it's "refreshing" or whatnot, but that in itself does take energy, and why let my energy fall below zero for a shower when laying in bed feels "safer".

Idk what I'm saying, just rambling. Anyway, you're not alone in this, and I hope you don't let their unrealistic expectations negate all you've put into making it each and every day just to stick around for the time being.

Yes I'm absolutely trying, but I'm also so damn tired after years. I can't promise I will survive this. It's like they just don't want me to die in here. What I do after this, they don't care. 'As long as you are here, we need you to fully commit and give it a chance, you can also commit suicide after that if it doesn't work and you still wanna do it' (that's not exactly how she said it, I forgot what she said exactly, but she totally meant this) like girl, that's exactly what I'm trying to plan here lol. I promised to stop the plan and all the stuff, and I probably will for a while, but I know at some point I will continue, I just won't tell them ever again. It's just so hard because she can read me so well and she knows exactly when I'm hiding something.

Yes, if it simply was a choice, no one would make the choice to feel like this. Every single person would choose to have a nice life and be positive and feel good. No one wants to feel this way.

Since I'm in here I've just gotten more realistic honestly, there's a real chance I won't survive this and I have kinda accepted that. But people who work in the mental health care simply can't accept that.

Another point I forgot to include: people forget that it's a matter of well established and diagnosed illnesses. Nevertheless, they are treated totally different from physical illnesses. No one would say to a cancer patient that they "choose" to have cancer.

Exactly! I've said stuff like this so many times before. As soon as you compare it to a serious physical illness, 95% of the things they say would be totally inappropriate. But somehow it is appropriate to say to people with mental illness.

 

[Toptock]

Its brainwashing. I can speak from experience when i say people will do what they can to convince themselves that you're not valid. They assume since a person can reflexively laugh that they arent angry.

Imagine back to when your parents tickled you when you were upset, then upon a laugh they'd dismiss your frustration as you making it up, because *see* you can still laugh. And normal people who are angry wont laugh.

Extend this into the professional world. If you're remotely capable of expressing a modicum of emotion other than frustration or sadness, they'll write you off. But don't worry, when you ctb they'll include your photo in a PowerPoint on how to "spot depression."

 

[BandAddict]

Yes I'm absolutely trying, but I'm also so damn tired after years. I can't promise I will survive this. It's like they just don't want me to die in here. What I do after this, they don't care. 'As long as you are here, we need you to fully commit and give it a chance, you can also commit suicide after that if it doesn't work and you still wanna do it' (that's not exactly how she said it, I forgot what she said exactly, but she totally meant this) like girl, that's exactly what I'm trying to plan here lol. I promised to stop the plan and all the stuff, and I probably will for a while, but I know at some point I will continue, I just won't tell them ever again. It's just so hard because she can read me so well and she knows exactly when I'm hiding something.

Yes, if it simply was a choice, no one would make the choice to feel like this. Every single person would choose to have a nice life and be positive and feel good. No one wants to feel this way.

Since I'm in here I've just gotten more realistic honestly, there's a real chance I won't survive this and I have kinda accepted that. But people who work in the mental health care simply can't accept that.

That's an interesting thing with hospitals and such. It's like a "not while you're under MY roof" type thing, haha. They know they can't control you once you leave, they can only try to protect/direct you while you're there, I guess.

I once told a doctor during one of my stays that I was tired and was sure that I'd eventually ctb once I left. He kinda nodded and said "Okay," nonchalantly and that was that. I guess for some, once your mind is made up, they feel kinda powerless and don't want to be stuck with the thought that they couldn't do enough, I don't know.

In any case, the time you spend getting through each day doesn't mean any less in death. I hope that doesn't sound too morbid, but I get where you're coming from, I'm there too. Can't promise anything to anyone.

Its brainwashing. I can speak from experience when i say people will do what they can to convince themselves that you're not valid. They assume since a person can reflexively laugh that they arent angry.

Imagine back to when your parents tickled you when you were upset, then upon a laugh they'd dismiss your frustration as you making it up, because *see* you can still laugh. And normal people who are angry wont laugh.

Extend this into the professional world. If you're remotely capable of expressing a modicum of emotion other than frustration or sadness, they'll write you off. But don't worry, when you ctb they'll include your photo in a PowerPoint on how to "spot depression."

You do have a point here. Probably why I feel guilty every time I laugh or even smile. My hope is that some select people aren't that dense...

 

[Stroopwafel.]

That's an interesting thing with hospitals and such. It's like a "not while you're under MY roof" type thing, haha. They know they can't control you once you leave, they can only try to protect/direct you while you're there, I guess.

I once told a doctor during one of my stays that I was tired and was sure that I'd eventually ctb once I left. He kinda nodded and said "Okay," nonchalantly and that was that. I guess for some, once your mind is made up, they feel kinda powerless and don't want to be stuck with the thought that they couldn't do enough, I don't know.

In any case, the time you spend getting through each day doesn't mean any less in death. I hope that doesn't sound too morbid, but I get where you're coming from, I'm there too. Can't promise anything to anyone.

You do have a point here. Probably why I feel guilty every time I laugh or even smile. My hope is that some select people aren't that dense...

Yeah that's absolutely true. I while back I did a suicide attempt in here and I just feel like they don't wanna be that hospital 'where a girl killed herself'

 

[Stroopwafel.]

Its brainwashing. I can speak from experience when i say people will do what they can to convince themselves that you're not valid. They assume since a person can reflexively laugh that they arent angry.

Imagine back to when your parents tickled you when you were upset, then upon a laugh they'd dismiss your frustration as you making it up, because *see* you can still laugh. And normal people who are angry wont laugh.

Extend this into the professional world. If you're remotely capable of expressing a modicum of emotion other than frustration or sadness, they'll write you off. But don't worry, when you ctb they'll include your photo in a PowerPoint on how to "spot depression."

I'm sorry you feel like that, it's sad how people just think you are okay 'because you can laugh' I feel so bad, but yeah, there's still things that I find funny and makes me laugh. Doesn't mean I love life.

 

[Mentalmick]

Even after all these years they still don't have the first clue how to deal with depression and anxiety, so they cover up their lack of knowledge with this crap.

 

[Toptock]

Even after all these years they still don't have the first clue how to deal with depression and anxiety, so they cover up their lack of knowledge with this crap.

Its not that they don't have a clue. I think its more malevolent than that. I believe the psychopaths in healthcare know what we need, know how to give it, and choose to operate off of a concensus of baseline psychology to force us into instead. This is a far more managable and trackable system than developing a treatment for a case-by-case basis.

The system couldn't care less. I compare it to that Chaplain film "Modern Times." In which his body is conditioned to move in only one way, the way the system operates. We are put together (notice i didnt say "put back together") in a way that lets us simply fill a role. They NEED us to function in their world, they NEED us sedated and medicated. I hate it. There is no medicine, no doctor, only manipulation and chemistry

 

[LunarPyotr]

Yeah, it's like saying that crime is illegal and expecting the crime rate immediately drop to 0.
It's not a joke, it's a serious thing and it really makes me speechless, when I read stuff like these. It's like those people are just trying to manipulate you and are not taking things seriously.

Society then wonders why people with depressive/suicidal thoughts/tendencies are not seeking help from experts. Bitch please, if they wouldn't just do things for the stats and would actually help, then the situation would be far different than it is now.

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

The system couldn't care less. I compare it to that Chaplain film "Modern Times." In which his body is conditioned to move in only one way, the way the system operates. We are put together (notice i didnt say "put back together") in a way that lets us simply fill a role. They NEED us to function in their world, they NEED us sedated and medicated. I hate it. There is no medicine, no doctor, only manipulation and chemistry

I agree, their goal is to make you functional within the confines of society. Addressing your concerns, helping you heal and become whole is not on their agenda. You are expected to accept things as they are, put up with it, and deal with your own shit even if you are incapable of doing so.

Take an issue like climate change and this scope fails almost entirely - its sufficiently large-scale enough that the therapist's individualizing lens has no real answer to it. One who is trained in end-of-life therapy may have some more substantial answers that verge into decidedly philosophical territory, but most "by the book" therapists will preach willful ignorance; their role is not to create independent-thinking individuals, community leaders, politically-minded citizens or would-be revolutionaries, because they don't operate in this paradigm; an office vending machine is more communalistic than a therapist's office could ever claim to be. No, their role is to keep people complicit and complacent in the consume/work false dichotomy lifestyle for they are part of the very same paradigm, this being their work as much as preaching is a priests'. The "mental health" industry is obliged to meet the absurdity of the world it exists in and profits off of, and so existential terror becomes "eco-anxiety", another cutesy label which can be "treated" with the right combination of benzodiazepines and willful ignorance, just as a village witch doctor may have once treated "spiritual possession" with a concoction of ayahuasca and a ceremony. Now this ceremony only takes 45 minutes and $200 a week and a monthly trip to the pharmacy. Who ever said capitalism wasn't efficient?!" --Stranger from the internet

 

[GarageKarate07]

When I developed bipolar disorder, a psychiatrist told me: "You have to realize that nobody will understand what you're going through, unless they've gone through the same thing themselves." I think this is the explanation. People can't understand what we're going through. It makes the journey through the darkness even more lonely.

Right. They can't understand why being molested or beaten or abused as a child can make you sad. They can't understand why the therapy and healthcare are dysfunctional on purpose to feed the monster. Its not that they dont understand its that they dont want to face the mirror like anyone else including some of us here. Its natural but not when it's a chosen profession and they still are not allowed to help people. Some doctors (very few) actually help and bend the rules. Those people are heroes. Sonetimes family and coworkers do it to. Those people are also heroes. But the ones who dont want to see the damaged people in the mirror those people are basically criminals. The system should have been shut down and changed by the people long who but here we are still not helping or caring about each other. It seems that way at least. IMO