Why do medics save your life after a suicide attempt if they know you’ll be a vegetable?

[Jessica5]

Do medics seriously think that a previously suicidal person will change their mind about life, and will come to appreciate life after becoming brain damaged, disfigured and/or quadriplegic?

And isn't saving the life of people who don't want to be saved "playing God?" It's not like they'd have to do anything to actively kill you-they could just wait for nature to take its course.

Are medics just greedy?

 

[IrRegularjoe]

Its a good point. Ive thought that. Like are you allowed to leave a note stating DNR. Otherwise what's the point of DNR.

 

[Jessica5]

Its a good point. Ive thought that. Like are you allowed to leave a note stating DNR. Otherwise what's the point of DNR.

DNRs often get ignored during suicide attempts. The theory is that the DNR was part of the suicide.

And actually, doctors are pretty notorious for ignoring DNRs period. They at least will claim afterword that they were unable to locate the DNR.

 

[Thirdtimesthecharm]

Cause theyre paid to

 

[Buffy5120]

Cus they're brainwashed and probably never dealt with any type of unending suffering

 

[Pale Blue Dot]

Cause that's their priority. Not because of their personal beliefs. They just have to, they'll probably get in trouble if they don't. I don't know where you're from, but there's an actual law for this in some countries. It's still a controversial subject tho, the law about this subject is keep getting changed.

 

[Aap]

Quite simply, they don't know that. They are trained to perform live saving intervention to get the patient to an er. They save people with coronary events weekly if not daily. I'm not even going to mention the lawsuits that would ensue if they just guessed at the person's intentions and directed treatment accordingly.

 

[autumnal]

Do medics seriously think that a previously suicidal person will change their mind about life, and will come to appreciate life after becoming brain damaged, disfigured and/or quadriplegic?

And isn't saving the life of people who don't want to be saved "playing God?" It's not like they'd have to do anything to actively kill you-they could just wait for nature to take its course.

Are medics just greedy?

Medics (whether you mean paramedics or doctors) first priority is saving lives. Even if it were beneficial (which it isn't), they simply wouldn't have the time to stop and think during every emergency about whether the person had suicided, whether they would change their life if saved or what injuries they may be left with if they survived. And as @Aap stated, even if they were permitted to make such impossible considerations, what if they were mistaken?

The suggestion that medics save lives because they are 'just greedy' is quite frankly a ridiculous one, and is insulting to an entire profession. Medics are paid an hourly rate. They don't receive an additional financial reward based on the number of people they save, and emergencies are so constant that they don't risk going out of business were they to stop saving lives based upon your suggested criteria.

Something that many people on the forum don't seem to understand, is that if you have an issue with people not being allowed to suicide, you need to blame and raise it with Governments and lawmakers. There is zero benefit in directing your frustration at paramedics, doctors, police and therapists, who all work on the front line of suicide and mental health, are bound by laws and societal norms, have no power to change societal views on suicide, and who generally do their very best in extremely difficult situations.

 

[maru.]

Do medics seriously think that a previously suicidal person will change their mind about life, and will come to appreciate life after becoming brain damaged, disfigured and/or quadriplegic?

And isn't saving the life of people who don't want to be saved "playing God?" It's not like they'd have to do anything to actively kill you-they could just wait for nature to take its course.

Are medics just greedy?

As someone that goes to med school, i think i'm somewhat qualified to answer this.
I think it's mostly a matter of, that's just what we do, we save lives, we aren't there to judge if we should or shouldn't save a person.
Like @autumnal said, we don't even have time to think about stuff like that in many situations, we just act on what we know how to do.
Not to mention, a lot of times, if the person is guaranteed to be a vegetable for the rest of their lives, there is euthanasia in a few countries, you can turn the machines off, etc.
So it makes sense to try to save someone and only later, if everything goes wrong, pull the plug.
However, i can see how it can be really scary and frustrating in cases where these options aren't there.

Another big problem is, again speaking from the perspective of a med student, if we can save a life, but don't, there could be lawsuits up the ass if anyone finds out.
I had an entire subject for one whole year of "Ethics", but it was really "How not to get sued, or win if you do".
I don't know the situation in other countries, but in Brazil suing doctors for literally anything is common practice, since it is one of the best careers salary wise.
So people think "that son of a bitch has money, let's get some", so even in cases where the person wants you to let their family member die, for example, it's possible you'd still get sued if they somehow found out you didn't do everything you could to save them, just so they can make those extra bucks.
So yeah, that's another reason medics do it, so they don't have to deal with things like this, as in saying "I did what was demanded of me, now leave me alone".
It's awful, but it's the way things are unfortunately.

 

[GoBack]

It's their job to save lives no matter what. It's the law. It's not up to them to decide whether a person actually wants to live or not. They're underpaid overworked angels of the night. I've had too many pain meds today but yeah.

 

[SpottedPanda]

I wouldn't mind being a vegetable. I imagine it's just like sleeping. Sounds stupid, but it's true

 

[Morphosis]

I wouldn't mind being a vegetable. I imagine it's just like sleeping. Sounds stupid, but it's true

Its definitely not like sleeping. You would likely be aware of everything around you, can hear every word but are unable to respond or interact in any way. You are trapped in a living hell inside your own body.
You're possibly thinking of being unconscious and in a coma, which is different from being a "vegetable" with brain damage etc.

 

[Aonewayticketplease]

if everything goes wrong, pull the plug.

This is probably a bit of a thread hijack but my eyes are brimming over with morbid curiosity at this sentence.

What does pulling the plug look like? I have only ever seen it in the movies and am aware that you can't believe anything you see in Hollywood?

Does the person die quickly after you turn the equipment off?

 

[SpottedPanda]

Its definitely not like sleeping. You would likely be aware of everything around you, can hear every word but are unable to respond or interact in any way. You are trapped in a living hell inside your own body.
You're possibly thinking of being unconscious and in a coma, which is different from being a "vegetable" with brain damage etc.

I've always had a strange fascination for being incapacitated in various ways, but I don't understand the specifics

 

[Jean Améry]

Probably because the law and medical ethics put that obligation on them. Professional pride probably has something to do with it.

I doubt it's because of greed: as far as I know doctors and medical personnel aren't paid based on the number of lives they save.

 

[Winston]

In USA the commercial medical industry makes the most money keeping humans alive as long as possible, including and especially CTB failures. One CTB failure could potentially generate tens of thousands of dollars through first responders, ER, hospitalization, meds, ventilators, tests, doctors, various therapists and years of outpatient and follow-up. More years alive means more taxes paid, also. Pro-life translates to pro money. If you live in a euthanasia country, then they will make money off of that, too, while acting like they are doing you a favor.
Like @maru. stated, there are fear-based statutes to compel the industry to draw out an individuals life. The establishment can not tolerate individuals making their own CTB decisions. It is expensive to them!
I agree with @autumnal that it is not neccessrily the greed/ malice of individual therapist, medics and therapists etc simply doing their jobs. But they are after all gears in the commercial medical machine.

 

[Morphosis]

I've always had a strange fascination for being incapacitated in various ways, but I don't understand the specifics

I worked in a hospice for years so had experience of a lot of patients dying slowly. I remember one guy who took a year to die after being brain damaged, the only way he could communicate was by blinking and also could move his big toe. Other than that he was completely paralysed. He had a DNR made out after his initial accident, arrested while in hospital and it was ignored and he was resuscitated. He was well pissed off. Just deteriorated slowly after that. Heartbreaking case.

 

[SpottedPanda]

I worked in a hospice for years so had experience of a lot of patients dying slowly. I remember one guy who took a year to die after being brain damaged, the only way he could communicate was by blinking and also could move his big toe. Other than that he was completely paralysed. He had a DNR made out after his initial accident, arrested while in hospital and it was ignored and he was resuscitated. He was well pissed off. Just deteriorated slowly after that. Heartbreaking case.

Just as this notification popped up, I was visualising myself only being able to blink. If it happens to me, they better have Prime Instant Video. No joke. That'd be the only enjoyment, as I imagine not being able to enjoy food

 

[maru.]

This is probably a bit of a thread hijack but my eyes are brimming over with morbid curiosity at this sentence.

What does pulling the plug look like? I have only ever seen it in the movies and am aware that you can't believe anything you see in Hollywood?

Does the person die quickly after you turn the equipment off?

I've just started the 3rd year, so i don't know much.
It really depends, like, of what is causing the patient to be in the state he is, and his situation.
Like, the only examples i've seen of this in practice was with a teacher who specialized in palliative care.
Like, there was this patient that had a condition, every liquid she swallowed went to the lungs, so she would die with a lot of suffering inevitably.
She was already very old, and my teacher came to the conclusion that extending her life only for the sake of it, without regard for quality or dignity, was not right.
He had a talk to the family, which agreed with him, so they stopped giving her the treatment to survive, and constantly put her to sleep with sedatives so she wouldn't feel any pain, so yeah, they just stopped treating her and left her to die, but kept her unconscious through out so she wouldn't feel pain or desperation over the idea of death.
That's the only kind of example i know, i can't think of any others that i've seen besides palliative care ones.

 

[autumnal]

In USA the commercial medical industry makes the most money keeping humans alive as long as possible, including and especially CTB failures. One CTB failure could potentially generate tens of thousands of dollars through first responders, ER, hospitalization, meds, ventilators, tests, doctors, various therapists and years of outpatient and follow-up. More years alive means more taxes paid, also. Pro-life translates to pro money. If you live in a euthanasia country, then they will make money off of that, too, while acting like they are doing you a favor.
Like @maru. stated, there are fear-based statutes to compel the industry to draw out an individuals life. The establishment can not tolerate individuals making their own CTB decisions. It is expensive to them!
I agree with @autumnal that it is not neccessrily the greed/ malice of individual therapist, medics and therapists etc simply doing their jobs. But they are after all gears in the commercial medical machine.

I think that is a rather cynical and conspiracy-laden explanation. Medicine defaults to keeping people alive because that is the collective approach favoured by society. While there are aspects of the medical system which can be overused or rorted for profit, I don't think the fundamentally pro-life stance of medicine is itself motivated by greed in any way.

 

[whitelacedress]

I think its because most of the times they dont know for sure youll be a vegetable, anything can happen in the hospital

 

[autumnal]

This is probably a bit of a thread hijack but my eyes are brimming over with morbid curiosity at this sentence.

What does pulling the plug look like? I have only ever seen it in the movies and am aware that you can't believe anything you see in Hollywood?

Does the person die quickly after you turn the equipment off?

This has some good information:

 

[Jessica5]

I wouldn't mind being a vegetable. I imagine it's just like sleeping. Sounds stupid, but it's true

By vegetable, I mean a conscious and aware vegetable. I think that's what most people on this board mean by "being a vegetable."

I agree that being an unconscious vegetable wouldn't be that bad. Not really that much different than death.

 

[SpottedPanda]

By vegetable, I mean a conscious and aware vegetable. I think that's what most people on this board mean by "being a vegetable."

I agree that being an unconscious vegetable wouldn't be that bad. Not really that much different than death.

Yeah that's what I was originally picturing, an unconscious vegetable, or someone so far gone their capacity to think had been nullified

 

[GoBack]

Yeah that's what I was originally picturing, an unconscious vegetable, or someone so far gone their capacity to think had been nullified

I get it, but you'd still feel feelings , that couldn't be good

 

[SpottedPanda]

I get it, but you'd still feel feelings , that couldn't be good

For a long while I felt rage at lobotomies being perfectly legal back in the day, and it's horrific. But I do stop to wonder with things like this, how much could you actually suffer? Most of my suffering, in fact all, stems from the ability to think

 

[GoBack]

For a long while I felt rage at lobotomies being perfectly legal back in the day, and it's horrific. But I do stop to wonder with things like this, how much could you actually suffer? Most of my suffering, in fact all, stems from the ability to think

I think it's a soul suffering , being trapped in a body.
Then there's physical pain of not moving.
What, can you not think at all with frontal lobotomy? What bout if people hear voices, where does that come from

 

[SpottedPanda]

I think it's a soul suffering , being trapped in a body.
Then there's physical pain of not moving.
What, can you not think at all with frontal lobotomy? What bout if people hear voices, where does that come from

Well it mashes up your prefrontal cortex, as far as I'm aware, the part of the brain responsible for processing language and basic motor functions. If my memory serves me, which it might well not.

I don't believe in a soul, but it'd suck to have toothache and nobody know.

 

[GoBack]

Well it mashes up your prefrontal cortex, as far as I'm aware, the part of the brain responsible for processing language and basic motor functions. If my memory serves me, which it might well not.

I don't believe in a soul, but it'd suck to have toothache and nobody know.

Yeah. That wud suck balls

 

[SpottedPanda]

What bout if people hear voices, where does that come from

Mine tend to come from the room next door. I wish I knew where in the brain. I might have asked for ECT a fast minute ago.