Why can’t we escape who we are

[prototypian]

Society seems to have one major creed above all others. You can not escape yourself. All of the biggest systems and tools and social orders are based on you remaining you forever. No past can be lost. No mistakes can be erased. The greatest crime would be for you to disappear. For whatever reason: debts, anger, love, bureaucracy or something else, society doesn't want you to disappear. But suicide is a tool they can't actually stop at some point. Somehow you can succeed at this goal if you will it. I don't encourage anyone to catch the bus. I just know that from my perspective, they reason society hates it is primarily that it is a veil they can no longer exert control through. The dead person can't be intimidated, used, controlled, abused, indebted, defined or reasoned with. Every single power is gone over that person.

 

[Z-A]

It's called greed and selfishness. Existence is truly sadistic for making this all happen and cruel living beings imo.

 

[sserafim]

It's called greed and selfishness. Existence is truly sadistic for making this all happen and cruel living beings imo.

Life is slavery. We're all brought into a system of modern day slavery. It's sadistic that we're born to be wageslaves and slaves to the system. We're born to be human capital. We're born to be workers, consumers, and taxpayers. Society wants to extract and make the maximum amount of money and profit from us. We're basically money-making machines; society milks us for money. We are also all replaceable. We are just human resources, as society only values you for your work and productivity. It only cares about and values what you produce. Society could not care less about you as a human or as an individual.

There are always costs in life and bills to pay just because you exist. Society always wants your money in some way or fashion. There are even taxes because society believes that it's entitled to a portion of your income. Literally absurd. I never saw the point of taxes. Why should I have to give my hypothetical hard-earned money to society? It doesn't deserve it. I'm a NEET, so I don't have any income but I hate how society believes that it's entitled to my theoretical paycheck. The money should be mine and mine alone.

The human condition is one of slavery, yet no one knows that they are enslaved. They work away their lives for 50 years and are just okay with it. They slave away and make their bosses richer. I guess ignorance truly is bliss. The thing that's absurd to me is that they seem to enjoy life and not want to die, or maybe it's just massive cope. It probably is cope because so many people have addictions and are running away from themselves. The chase endless pleasures and consume substances like drugs and alcohol because deep down, they aren't satisfied with their lives. They try to fulfill an empty void inside which stems from the reality of life under capitalism: one of profound emptiness and meaninglessness. The best way to keep a prisoner from escaping is to make sure he never knows that he's in prison

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Society seems to have one major creed above all others. You can not escape yourself. All of the biggest systems and tools and social orders are based on you remaining you forever. No past can be lost. No mistakes can be erased. The greatest crime would be for you to disappear. For whatever reason: debts, anger, love, bureaucracy or something else, society doesn't want you to disappear. But suicide is a tool they can't actually stop at some point. Somehow you can succeed at this goal if you will it. I don't encourage anyone to catch the bus. I just know that from my perspective, they reason society hates it is primarily that it is a veil they can no longer exert control through. The dead person can't be intimidated, used, controlled, abused, indebted, defined or reasoned with. Every single power is gone over that person.

I agree . It's the only way to escape them and to defeat them .

I feel that i'm rejecting them and their subjective morality , what they tell us we have to do get married have children "fight to live" " love life" and much more subjective garbage they say is objective fact. "be a good little slave and conform , work , do chores" . And i say for what reason for what purpose there is no objective purpose.

To me the only objective thing is for me to avoid extreme pain and extreme suffering extreme problems and then any suffering pain problems. I couldn't care less about what they say we have to do or what they say is "good"

I don't care about anything just avoiding extreme pain and killing these monstrous cells they call a human body that is just an always hungry torture chamber that i'm inprisoned in .

 

[LaughingGoat]

It's definitely a perspective and experience thing as everyone lives a different life, but I don't see it this way at all. I've changed in many ways throughout my life and while I'm obviously still literally me as the same biological organism, my self-identity, philosophies, desires, actions have without question gone through major adaptations. Whether it wanted to or not (and I would need specific examples of what this actually looks like in society), systems, tools, and social orders had little ability in creating or stopping those changes.

 

[prototypian]

My question is why does everyone have to earn a living. That sounds like you have to earn to be alive and society wants you alive.

I can take life to try the Cognitive work to see things a different way. But can you ever reset? Change your life so that your high school grades are no longer there? Erase that speeding ticket? Delete the time you were fired from your job? Reset who you actually were so that your past doesn't drag along with you? I've not been arrested but I can't imagine it following me through every bit of life forever if I had. As I grow older I see more and more that any mistakes simply end your future. And competition likes it that way. If you're perfect then there is a chance as long as you are willing to step on people to climb. That's how I see it. You can't reset the reality of your past and a major goal is that the world doesn't want you to.

 

[escape_from_hell]

"
I know where I will wear this dagger then;
Cassius from bondage will deliver Cassius:
Therein, ye gods, you make the weak most strong;
Therein, ye gods, you tyrants do defeat:
Nor stony tower, nor walls of beaten brass,
Nor airless dungeon, nor strong links of iron,
Can be retentive to the strength of spirit;
But life, being weary of these worldly bars,
Never lacks power to dismiss itself.
If I know this, know all the world besides,
That part of tyranny that I do bear
I can shake off at pleasure
"

- Cassius, in Shakespeare's Julius Caesar Act 1, Scene 3

 

[Forever Sleep]

I have a slightly different take on this. For one, sadly, we can lose who we are. Things like dementia really degrade us as we grow older. Who we are resides in our brains. If they become damaged or diminished, so do we.

I also wonder if the emphasis on individualism is all a big con. Your opinion is important, what you value matters. People want to read your latest social media update on what you had for lunch. What toaster you just bought. Really? Is any of it important? Or, does it just make us feel important? That we hold some vital place in society? Moreover, it keeps us spending money and needing to earn it. How can we express ourselves if we don't achieve things and have opinions on stuff we've bought? I don't know whether society as a system really gives a shit about the individual. I think it's simply a useful tool to keep us wrapped up in capitalism and consumerism. That's my suspicion anyhow.

 

[prototypian]

I believe that the vehicle for earning money, building security and gaining wealth has a consumer key in dopamije. It's hard to make a "sale" or get an "investment" to it from a person who carefully evaluates their needs, risks and overall value. In fact that kind of consumer is not desired by marketing because it inevitably leads to fewer sales or investments. What is desired is quick hits of joy punctuated by a need for more of that. It is actually modeled on a dopamine addiction. If you, for example crave lengthy articles in news that require concentration, evaluation of facts and an understanding of subject matter, you will find that this medium is increasingly not the format for advertising and slowly disappears. Same thing with your value if you are not providing immediate tangible benefits. Your value must be continuously quantified and measured agains what it provides. More privilege, benefits and value is placed where you provide the most substance in the shortest amount of time. The perfect company for every strong capitalist would be one that had very few employees, those employees took as small a salary as possible and received no benefits and would work only on demand so that only specific productive work was compensated. The key would be to make people want this. It's often branded employee engagement.

 

[LaughingGoat]

My question is why does everyone have to earn a living. That sounds like you have to earn to be alive and society wants you alive.

I can take life to try the Cognitive work to see things a different way. But can you ever reset? Change your life so that your high school grades are no longer there? Erase that speeding ticket? Delete the time you were fired from your job? Reset who you actually were so that your past doesn't drag along with you? I've not been arrested but I can't imagine it following me through every bit of life forever if I had. As I grow older I see more and more that any mistakes simply end your future. And competition likes it that way. If you're perfect then there is a chance as long as you are willing to step on people to climb. That's how I see it. You can't reset the reality of your past and a major goal is that the world doesn't want you to.

You can't create or erase time, it's like wishing gravity or metabolic function didn't exist. Regarding your more realistic wish that someone could move on from their mistakes, it happens constantly. Minus doing something horrific and getting caught like abuse of a child, I've seen countless people have success after felonies, addictions, firings, etc. Honestly pains me to say it, but having worked in jobs parallel to social services, I've seen plenty cases of sexual predators still having no issue doing ok. I'm sure there are an endless number of woman here who have been victims of assault and and could tell you the perpetrator is free and doing fine. Now in some instances, your actions will close certain opportunities available to you, there are going to be natural consequences for any action. If it wasn't that way, society would be pure chaos and despite what some anarchists fantasize about, the weakest and most innocent would be the ones taken advantage of the most in that reality (even more than they are now).

 

[prototypian]

You can't create or erase time, it's like wishing gravity or metabolic function didn't exist. Regarding your more realistic wish that someone could move on from their mistakes, it happens constantly. Minus doing something horrific and getting caught like abuse of a child, I've seen countless people have success after felonies, addictions, firings, etc. Honestly pains me to say it, but having worked in jobs parallel to social services, I've seen plenty cases of sexual predators still having no issue doing ok. I'm sure there are an endless number of woman here who have been victims of assault and and could tell you the perpetrator is free and doing fine. Now in some instances, your actions will close certain opportunities available to you, there are going to be natural consequences for any action. If it wasn't that way, society would be pure chaos and despite what some anarchists fantasize about, the weakest and most innocent would be the ones taken advantage of the most in that reality (even more than they are now).

That's all that I want. To erase all of me. To disappear dead not knowing anything at all. I can't escape my failures and I see myself as one no matter what, with no rational chance for success. I hate rationalizing and looking on the bright side of life or having to feel like life itself and friends are all that is important or viewing that someone else is happy even though they have it worse than me. I am financially successful, I have a family, I had an easy life and I'd give it to anyone just to disappear and never have to be a human again. I've rationalized for so long that if I'm dead I won't care that my family is sad. If I'm dead I don't have to go to meetings, if I'm dead I don't have to feel like a failure all the time. I hate my life so much and I hate all of the things about living in this world and society.

 

[Tired_birth_1967]

Death is the last stage. All the dead have reached the peak of existence. It is clear that we only follow a natural programming directed towards the end. I see no purpose in life other than to die. Everything is like this if we observe carefully. All rules and conventions were created for spurious purposes. When we follow everything we are just filling time to achieve the main objective.

 

[LaughingGoat]

That's all that I want. To erase all of me. To disappear dead not knowing anything at all. I can't escape my failures and I see myself as one no matter what, with no rational chance for success. I hate rationalizing and looking on the bright side of life or having to feel like life itself and friends are all that is important or viewing that someone else is happy even though they have it worse than me. I am financially successful, I have a family, I had an easy life and I'd give it to anyone just to disappear and never have to be a human again. I've rationalized for so long that if I'm dead I won't care that my family is sad. If I'm dead I don't have to go to meetings, if I'm dead I don't have to feel like a failure all the time. I hate my life so much and I hate all of the things about living in this world and society.

That's fair as a personal philosophy and then suicide is a rational option to that feeling. I'm in agreement with you that's a fair assessment on our individual existence, I just don't consider it a fair assessment of all of society.