Venting What’s the point in getting therapy if I don’t believe in it?

[Dr Iron Arc]

If I may ramble a bit: I'm well aware that one of if not the most common answers to most internal problems just ends up being "seek therapy lol". I can't even resist the urge to offer this useless advice myself when asked for suggestions about someone else's challenging mental health issues. It's such a ubiquitous thing to recommend yet many of us here know it isn't the miracle solution it promises to be.

Today I was supposed to try getting a new therapist for myself to stop having panic attacks at work. The therapist I was previously seeing a few months ago dropped me after two sessions because she claimed I needed a psychiatrist. Well I spent the next couple months seeing a psychiatrist only for him to not prescribe me any medication beyond an antihistamine and for him to also drop me and claim that only talk therapy could help me. I ended up wasting today away not getting anything useful done but my managers at work strongly suggested I try again to get a different therapist after my last panic attack on Friday.

I think that process was such a pain in the ass. I already got rejected from the therapy services my primary care hospital provides. I guess because they don't believe anxiety is real or something. It's just as well. Like the title says, I just don't really even BELIEVE in therapy.

From what I can tell, it does nothing to actually solve people's problems. All it does is trick people into thinking their lives are good enough without fixing anything. It's like brainwashing and gaslighting to the extreme. What makes it even more egregious is anytime you try to point out the genuine flaws in being forced to cope with an irrational system, you just get hit with "Nuh uh, maybe YOU need to stop gaslighting yourself lol". They really can't come up with anything better than a "No You!"?

Sure therapy can be useful for some people, but so far it hasn't proved helpful at all to me. Continuing to feed everyone else's delusion isn't going to solve my own. Knowing all this, is it even worth it for me to even try? I don't think a therapist really can help me get over my crush. The only thing that can would be moving on to someone else or dying. I don't have anyone else to move on to at this point and dying is also not an option yet because I still have CTB plans to prepare for.

 

[willow115]

I think deep analytical therapy can impact the psyche. The provider needs to really evaluate your mind and know human nature, our ultimate needs and motivation. I prefer the jungian style. The small, mundane chat therapy style can open up some place of being heard and shared humanity but it's greatly limited. Little chats don't work, but deep psychological mind dumps and processing can. I'm pretty treatment resistant but I still have experienced that. That would analyze why your mind has focused in on the crush or why work in particular is a place closing in on you. Our driving forces and absolute fears can become fully revealed and known. That helps gain some control. In my experience, it brings a tiny bit of peace to know my psyche more at the very least. It brought me forgiveness and less shame. A lot of people try to do a massive awakening and download of this with psychedelics.

These providers also can't meet our needs to cure us. If we're touch starved, psychologically tormented by real experiences, have a negative existential perspective, etc all they really do is open up our minds to that. From there we need to be open to potential shifts of perspective. We also still have human needs that may or may not be met. We can't pay for that anywhere.

I personally would get some benzos if the therapy journey isn't for me. There's not much a good benzo won't fix. I have extreme anxiety and it can shut my nervous system down. That can have longterm problems but benzos have saved me at my worst.

 

[alienfreak]

I feel similarly. Maybe we have to waste our time and energy on it just to make the psychiatrists realise it wont work on us so we can get better medication. I also wonder how it affects interactions with other people since they think you 'arent trying' or something if you dont go to therapy. I suppose these are reasons to do it even if it has no real effectiveness or worse.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I feel similarly. Maybe we have to waste our time and energy on it just to make the psychiatrists realise it wont work on us so we can get better medication. I also wonder how it affects interactions with other people since they think you 'arent trying' or something if you dont go to therapy. I suppose these are reasons to do it even if it has no real effectiveness or worse.

Most of the people who shove therapy in my face can't even admit it actually benefits them, and they also can't admit that they only offer it as advice because they're out of ideas.

Even people who have therapy seemingly can't absorb its full benefits because the field itself is overwhelmed with the masses.

 

[alienfreak]

I personally would get some benzos if the therapy journey isn't for me. There's not much a good benzo won't fix. I have extreme anxiety and it can shut my nervous system down. That can have longterm problems but benzos have saved me at my worst.

The only reason im dealing with the medical system is to try to get a continuing prescription to take on the worst days and/or important events

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I think deep analytical therapy can impact the psyche. The provider needs to really evaluate your mind and know human nature, our ultimate needs and motivation. I prefer the jungian style. The small, mundane chat therapy style can open up some place of being heard and shared humanity but it's greatly limited. Little chats don't work, but deep psychological mind dumps and processing can. I'm pretty treatment resistant but I still have experienced that. That would analyze why your mind has focused in on the crush or why work in particular is a place closing in on you. Our driving forces and absolute fears can become fully revealed and known. That helps gain some control. In my experience, it brings a tiny bit of peace to know my psyche more at the very least. It brought me forgiveness and less shame. A lot of people try to do a massive awakening and download of this with psychedelics.

These providers also can't meet our needs to cure us. If we're touch starved, psychologically tormented by real experiences, have a negative existential perspective, etc all they really do is open up our minds to that. From there we need to be open to potential shifts of perspective. We also still have human needs that may or may not be met. We can't pay for that anywhere.

I personally would get some benzos if the therapy journey isn't for me. There's not much a good benzo won't fix. I have extreme anxiety and it can shut my nervous system down. That can have longterm problems but benzos have saved me at my worst.

I feel like being able to go deeper with a therapist is also a dead end since most roads tend to lead to suicide anyway for me and if I say that most of them are just gonna have me hospitalized.

Benzodiazepines was something the psychiatrist specifically said he didn't want to prescribe me. I can't remember the reason why but maybe it was because I mentioned I'm awful at remembering to actually take medicine most of the time until it's already too late. He did suggest SSRIs but I've seen enough horror stories on this website to know I will never let those horrible things anywhere near my body.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I think deep analytical therapy can impact the psyche. The provider needs to really evaluate your mind and know human nature, our ultimate needs and motivation. I prefer the jungian style.

Psychoanalysis is literally bullshit. It isn't practiced that much anymore because there isn't much evidence to back a lot of it up. A lot of the stuff by Carl Jung isn't used by most professionals for a reason.

 

[Unspoken7612]

I do think CBT is useful for helping to challenge unrealistic thoughts and cognitive distortions, as well as allowing yourself to let go of passing thoughts. I'm not saying that is what you are experiencing, but it is common for people with anxiety.

Behavioural activation can also be really useful for some people. Mindfulness can be a game changer. I even learned some stuff from ACT, where I had a really confrontational therapist.

Therapy isn't going to solve all your problems, unless your problems all stem from cognitive distortions or something like that. What it might do is make it easier for you to solve your problems, or take steps towards solving them, yourself.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I do think CBT is useful for helping to challenge unrealistic thoughts and cognitive distortions, as well as allowing yourself to let go of passing thoughts. I'm not saying that is what you are experiencing, but it is common for people with anxiety.

Behavioural activation can also be really useful for some people. Mindfulness can be a game changer. I even learned some stuff from ACT, where I had a really confrontational therapist.

Therapy isn't going to solve all your problems, unless your problems all stem from cognitive distortions or something like that. What it might do is make it easier for you to solve your problems, or take steps towards solving them, yourself.

I hate mindfulness stuff. Tried it once and it just gave me a headache. I don't have the patience for it.

CBT might as well be equivalent to C and B Torture with how useless and painful it is. My thoughts and feelings may be unrealistic, but changing them isn't going to solve anything because the circumstances that create these thoughts will continue to exist. I don't know about other people but to say I have control over my thoughts is wishful thinking because I don't. Nothing I do actually controls them and whenever I am presented with alternate theories, they're usually even more idiotic than what I came up with.

Even if there is some magical obscure therapy technique that would work for me I'm sure the average therapist themself is ill-equipped to deal with me. The fact I've already been dropped by two professionals in quick succession just goes to show how I can't be helped.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I hate mindfulness stuff. Tried it once and it just gave me a headache. I don't have the patience for it.

CBT might as well be equivalent to C and B Torture with how useless and painful it is. My thoughts and feelings may be unrealistic, but changing them isn't going to solve anything because the circumstances that create these thoughts will continue to exist. I don't know about other people but to say I have control over my thoughts is wishful thinking because I don't. Nothing I do actually controls them and whenever I am presented with alternate theories, they're usually even more idiotic than what I came up with.

I like the issue here is your mindset. I don't have any real experience with therapy (I've only had a bit of counselling before (and that was back when I was in elementary) along with some surprisingly extensive experience with child social workers) so excuse my ignorance, but for these things to even have a chance at working you probably would have to come at them with an open mind and an actual willingness to change. Not bothering to try just because of a lack of patience and a lack of open-mindedness is obviously going to lead to nothing happening. Therapy is something that probably requires that you put in the work and give it an actual chance. This sort of stagnant mindset ("I have no control over my thoughts", "nothing will change", "I only tried it once and now I'm going to give up") is unproductive. You can't potentially be helped if you don't want to even try in the first place. And I'm saying all of this as someone who never wants to even go near a therapist (yuck!).

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I like the issue here is your mindset. I don't have any real experience with therapy (I've only had a bit of counselling before (and that was back when I was in elementary) along with some surprisingly extensive experience with child social workers) so excuse my ignorance, but for these things to even have a chance at working you probably would have to come at them with an open mind and an actual willingness to change. Not bothering to try just because of a lack of patience and a lack of open-mindedness is obviously going to lead to nothing happening. Therapy is something that probably requires that you put in the work and give it an actual chance. This sort of stagnant mindset ("I have no control over my thoughts", "nothing will change", "I only tried it once and now I'm going to give up") is unproductive. You can't potentially be helped if you don't want to even try in the first place. And I'm saying all of this as someone who never wants to even go near a therapist (yuck!).

You're right, and I guess it's the problem I originally had in mind when making this thread is that how am I even supposed to have therapy work for me if I just don't believe in it? It's the same problem I had with church which is that it seems like God only cares to help people who actually believe in him. Therapy is even worse though because it's also asking me to believe in myself and I just don't see that ever happening. I am at least aware I have a mindset issue but I just can't see a world where I ever actually change mine willingly.

 

[-Link-]

From what I can tell, it does nothing to actually solve people's problems. All it does is trick people into thinking their lives are good enough without fixing anything.

Therapy isn't meant to solve anyone's problems. It's meant to teach the tools a patient can use to solve their problems on their own. In some cases, the therapy itself can be a tool (eg. regular sessions of talk therapy), but this doesn't apply to everyone.

For unsolvable problems, it goes towards learning how to better cope with the status quo -- making peace with a situation rather than deluding oneself.

I don't think a therapist really can help me get over my crush.

A therapist cannot help anyone get over a crush, but the techniques and insights learned in therapy can be applied to many situations in life, including an unwanted crush.

An example of one possible approach to this: Do you actually want to get over your crush? In some cases, a crush can be used as a subconscious avoidance technique -- spending time fixating on a person as a means of avoiding some other aspect of life. Doubly so if it's to a point of limerence involving full-on dissociative episodes, making it outright addictive in addition to its usage as an avoidance technique.

So, if that hypothetical was actually an insight you learned through therapy, that would be one way you could defeat the thoughts about a crush: You'd ask yourself, "What am I avoiding by focusing on this person?" You'd acknowledge it as an avoidance technique and then redirect your thoughts accordingly.

What techniques would be fitting for you in this situation? That depends on the inner workings of your own mind. This is where the therapist comes in -- not to solve your problems for you, but to help you with introspection and gaining insights into what makes you think, feel, and behave as you do. This, towards making you better equipped to handle problems in life.

Benzodiazepines was something the psychiatrist specifically said he didn't want to prescribe me. I can't remember the reason why but maybe it was because I mentioned I'm awful at remembering to actually take medicine most of the time until it's already too late. He did suggest SSRIs but I've seen enough horror stories on this website to know I will never let those horrible things anywhere near my body.

Benzos are extremely addictive and, if taken daily, develop tolerance before much time on them at all, followed quickly by a physical dependence with godawful withdrawals to come off them. These are better taken on an as-needed basis at a rate no more than 2-3 times per month.

When looking at medication options, it's always a risks-to-benefits ratio. The hesitancy with SSRIs: Is this a concern for post-SSRI sexual dysfunction (PSSD)? The odds of this happening are extremely low. But even if that's a dealbreaker for you, you could look at alternative options like bupropion, mirtazapine, or vilazodone which are not known for these side effects.

Knowing all this, is it even worth it for me to even try?

You're already demonstrating a degree of interest (on some level) just by posting this thread.

I'd think about the pros and cons of trying to change, as well as the pros and cons of staying the same. I'd also think about any goals you might have in mind -- small goals, medium goals, big goals -- and how different therapy options might be able to help with those.

Also, I'd say it partly depends on how much therapy you've actually done. And which types of treatment programs you've tried. If what you've said in this thread is the extent of your experience in therapy, then yes, I'd suggest it's worth a try, at least to give them a chance to tell you about what different treatment options actually look like.

But I'd probably hold off on that until if/when you can go into it with an open mind.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

In my own experience, while therapy doesn't "cure" me by any means, it's drastically better for me than without. My therapist recently left and I've been slowly losing it even on meds, so I know having therapy was also important to keeping me stable. What also proves to me it was keeping me stable is before I went to therapy I would cry every week, I don't even cry once a month now.
It also took a number of therapists before I went to her too though, so I get how much of a struggle it is to find a good therapist, too.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Therapy isn't meant to solve anyone's problems. It's meant to teach the tools a patient can use to solve their problems on their own. In some cases, the therapy itself can be a tool (eg. regular sessions of talk therapy), but this doesn't apply to everyone.

If this is the case then why does everyone who keeps recommending it to me treat it as if it's going to completely solve all my problems? Why even bother giving me tools if I'm too stupid and incompetent to use them anyway?

For unsolvable problems, it goes towards learning how to better cope with the status quo -- making peace with a situation rather than deluding oneself.

I don't really see these tools working anyway because like I said, I must be too idiotic for them to even work for me. Making peace with objectively bad situations still sounds like delusion to me but I guess that's where I'm stuck too.

A therapist cannot help anyone get over a crush, but the techniques and insights learned in therapy can be applied to many situations in life, including an unwanted crush.

An example of one possible approach to this: Do you actually want to get over your crush? In some cases, a crush can be used as a subconscious avoidance technique -- spending time fixating on a person as a means of avoiding some other aspect of life. Doubly so if it's to a point of limerence involving full-on dissociative episodes, making it outright addictive in addition to its usage as an avoidance technique.

I feel like what I want is irrelevant because I don't actually even fully know what I want in this regard. If you asked me my answer would be "of course I do" but if you ask why then the only reason I can come up with is for her sake because I know I'm genuinely being a nuisance at best to her and a nightmare at worst. Of course I also do want to get over her just so I can actually move forward with CTB plans or at least maybe on to a different person to inevitably torment. But then if all that's the case, why is it still so hard for me? A therapist isn't going to know because they're just going to keep asking me until I give them some bullshit answer like a long "Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh". Clearly some parts of me do want to stay in limerence with her or else it would be so much easier to just stop. Or maybe it's my subconscious since these anxiety symptoms are manifesting into physical dangers. I don't know. I don't have a good answer so why the hell would a therapist be able to have one?

So, if that hypothetical was actually an insight you learned through therapy, that would be one way you could defeat the thoughts about a crush: You'd ask yourself, "What am I avoiding by focusing on this person?" You'd acknowledge it as an avoidance technique and then redirect your thoughts accordingly.

As I said before I'm really dumb. I don't really understand either what I am avoiding by staying into her. If anything, I'd much rather just avoid her entirely by killing myself or at least moving to another job but I'm just too inept to commit to those at the moment. Maybe one could argue I only got into her in the first place to avoid having to kill myself earlier this year. Even if that's true though it's something I still can't tell a therapist though because of their seedy willingness to throw all trust aside in favor of forcing people to stay alive and save their own hides from scrutiny.

What techniques would be fitting for you in this situation? That depends on the inner workings of your own mind. This is where the therapist comes in -- not to solve your problems for you, but to help you with introspection and gaining insights into what makes you think, feel, and behave as you do. This, towards making you better equipped to handle problems in life.

I do introspection all the time though as seen through my many thousands of posts on this forum and no matter how long I do it, I always happen upon the same answer: which is that I am evil and that my life isn't worth living. No amount of therapy can undo the damage I've done or make me into a better person and even if it could, the result just wouldn't be worth the effort it may take. This is another thing I can't tell a therapist unless I want a trip to the psych ward which many people say they completely regret.

Benzos are extremely addictive and, if taken daily, develop tolerance before much time on them at all, followed quickly by a physical dependence with godawful withdrawals to come off them. These are better taken on an as-needed basis at a rate no more than 2-3 times per month.

When looking at medication options, it's always a risks-to-benefits ratio. The hesitancy with SSRIs: Is this a concern for post-SSRI sexual dysfunction (PSSD)? The odds of this happening are extremely low. But even if that's a dealbreaker for you, you could look at alternative options like bupropion, mirtazapine, or vilazodone which are not known for these side effects.

That description of Benzos does sound familiar and I guess that's why my psychiatrist denied it to me. He never mentioned those other things though even when I asked if there was anything else more obscure he could offer me. He said nope so either he's an idiot and had no idea about these alternatives or maybe they have other hidden side effects I wouldn't want.

In reference to SSRIs, yes there's the sexual dysfunction side effects (low odds always become high odds for me when they're bad) that really bother me but even more than that is from what I hear: even for the people it works for and have no side effects it just leaves them emotionally dead and unable to truly feel happiness anymore. I still cling on to my favorite interests and for me to lose those would probably just make me even worse off so no thanks. I told the psychiatrist this much and that's when he said that only talk therapy could help me instead.

You're already demonstrating a degree of interest (on some level) just by posting this thread.

I'd think about the pros and cons of trying to change, as well as the pros and cons of staying the same. I'd also think about any goals you might have in mind -- small goals, medium goals, big goals -- and how different therapy options might be able to help with those.

My only two goals are 1) to stay alive for just a few more months in order to experience the things I'm waiting for only to eventually CTB and 2) to get a girlfriend. Therapy can't seem to help with either it seems because I'll never change anyway, except for the worse.

Also, I'd say it partly depends on how much therapy you've actually done. And which types of treatment programs you've tried. If what you've said in this thread is the extent of your experience in therapy, then yes, I'd suggest it's worth a try, at least to give them a chance to tell you about what different treatment options actually look like.

But I'd probably hold off on that until if/when you can go into it with an open mind.

Well I've had other therapists before, at least three other ones and the first was even court-appointed when I was 16 years old after I was removed from my father's custody. Clearly none of it has stuck with me. My first therapist must have tried everything and knew none of it worked because eventually we were just passing through the court-mandated sessions by playing Chess and Checkers. The other two therapists I've had were from the two different universities I attended. The first one was probably the most helpful because she was able to pull some strings and prevent my GPA from falling when I was having a crisis about failing as an animation major. Unfortunately I dropped out of that school entirely and later when I picked up with the new therapist from the new university, I only got to see her like maybe once every three months. The focus of these sessions was on how I see myself as evil and hateful and all she had to offer against that was a flat "nuh-uh" everytime. It was frustrating because she also insisted I could totally get a girlfriend through dating apps and even after signing up for so many of them I had an absolute 0% success rate. This recent talk therapist I had also resorted to similar tactics of constantly trying to claim I'm actually quite handsome and charming but come on, anyone who looks at my posts, my interests, or even my face should know how much of a bold-faced lie that is. I wasn't buying it.

But as much as I've been so confrontational towards your reply, you're absolutely right that I would actually need an open mind with the next therapist. It's too bad that that probably isn't going to happen, because I already know from decades of introspection that the only force on earth that could possibly open my mind in any way is getting a girlfriend. I know because it almost happened before and it's the only trick that's ever worked. You'll just have to take my word for it that I've tried or at least considered everything else with due diligence. I'm sorry for not being able to be helped by your post.

In my own experience, while therapy doesn't "cure" me by any means, it's drastically better for me than without. My therapist recently left and I've been slowly losing it even on meds, so I know having therapy was also important to keeping me stable. What also proves to me it was keeping me stable is before I went to therapy I would cry every week, I don't even cry once a month now.
It also took a number of therapists before I went to her too though, so I get how much of a struggle it is to find a good therapist, too.

That's another thing to worry about I guess is becoming dependent on it even if it does work. I hate having to add more things to be dependent because I just get so much more anxious if or when they are no longer viable…

 

[EmptyEater]

I hate mindfulness stuff. Tried it once and it just gave me a headache. I don't have the patience for it.

Once...
The whole point of it is to learn to develop patience. Medicine is often bitter.