Discussion what is an "acceptable" risk of traumatizing someone when ctb-ing

[senti-mental]

I understand this is highly subjective so I'm curious what other people feel about this, as I've ruled out certain methods in the past because they could traumatize more people than others. I feel any method has the potential to traumatize someone, because someone will find me dead. other methods will traumatize more people because some have to be done in public like jumping. And some put someone in the position of feeling responsible for your death, like if I jumped in front of a train. And then some methods just traumatize an individual worse than others, like a shotgun would traumatize whoever finds me worse than SN, because I would be in much worse condition when found.

I'm prone to black and white thinking, and I keep feeling that if I'm going to traumatize someone regardless, why not go for the most accessible/effective method for me regardless of who is affected? Btw my intention here is not to start a debate on what's more effective as a method, not gonna engage with that debate. just wondering what people think, if people think about how others will be effected by their method, because as I become more desperate after failing one method I'm turning to another that could affect more people negatively.

 

[FuneralCry]

If I don't exist then nothing can concern me as I'll be permanently unconscious with this cruel, futile existence no longer my problem, this couldn't matter to me and after all death is all that's inevitable anyway and I never would have chose to exist in the first place, I never would have wished for the unnecessary, torturous burden of human existence that just leads to decay and death anyway.

 

[CogitoMori]

My method involves going somewhere with a lot of missing people and going far away from where people normally go. That way anyone that finds me is not likely to be a civilian, but rather a worker that signed up to have that sort of responsibility, and has likely already seen something similar before.

 

[Tig]

Once your dead it won't matter, someone has clean up the mess regardless, I will offer one caviat, children should not come upon the body.
No one else is innocent at that point.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Well, if we are taking about acceptableness...

Making someone be party to your death isn't right.

Making someone witness your death isn't right.

Having someone discover your corpse in all its glory without warning isn't really right either.

If you don't own your own home where you can arrange all of the details yourself (assuming you have a method you can execute in there), it is impossible to not unfairly impose on others. One of the consequences of the forced clandestine nature of suicide. But there are some pretty egregious things that we should avoid.

I understand how desperation and the knowledge that trauma can't really be eliminated can make you just not care period about any of it. But I don't think the sociopathic approach is still right.

 

[NoPoint2Life]

I understand this is highly subjective so I'm curious what other people feel about this, as I've ruled out certain methods in the past because they could traumatize more people than others. I feel any method has the potential to traumatize someone, because someone will find me dead. other methods will traumatize more people because some have to be done in public like jumping. And some put someone in the position of feeling responsible for your death, like if I jumped in front of a train. And then some methods just traumatize an individual worse than others, like a shotgun would traumatize whoever finds me worse than SN, because I would be in much worse condition when found.

I'm prone to black and white thinking, and I keep feeling that if I'm going to traumatize someone regardless, why not go for the most accessible/effective method for me regardless of who is affected? Btw my intention here is not to start a debate on what's more effective as a method, not gonna engage with that debate. just wondering what people think, if people think about how others will be effected by their method, because as I become more desperate after failing one method I'm turning to another that could affect more people negatively.

I always try to agree with the theory of not doing anything that will traumatize others.
But man, when those panicked CTB emotions start coming it's like I can't help but saying who gives a shit.

 

[alienfreak]

People dying is a normal common thing, i dont think it is such a big deal. Seems like a modern cultural phenomenon for the average person to be so sensitive to it

 

[j1nxxb0yjj4ke]

I don't really care,
sometimes I even would like my corpse to be totally fucked beyond recognition..
Not because I wanna put pain on others, just because I hate myself.

 

[L'absent]

It's not just a matter of seeking the least traumatizing method, but of understanding the devastating impact your death will have on those who love you. Do you really think that your action won't leave deep scars in the lives of those who love you? Your passing will not just be a moment of pain, but a permanent wound, a lack that will accompany them forever. The people around you will experience unimaginable pain, and their world will be turned upside down. They will be forced to deal with your absence, to ask themselves what they could have done to help you, to carry the weight of a void that is impossible to fill. And it's not just them: there's also the risk of creating a domino effect, where your decision could lead others to think this is the only way out, perpetuating a cycle of suffering. If you worry about not traumatizing strangers, remember that their reaction will be superficial: curious people who film and photograph, but who will never know your pain. The real trauma, the real devastation, will reside in the hearts of those who love you. It's them you should think about. Suicide is not just an individual act; it has enormous repercussions on a network of relationships, on families and friends who will have to face a complex and difficult loss. Your absence will become an indelible scar for the people who were close to you. Before making such a final decision, consider the emotional toll your gesture will have on them. If, however, you are only looking for an end to your suffering, then don't look back and do what brings you serenity, without barricading yourself behind an alleged caution towards strangers.

 

[needthebus]

My method involves going somewhere with a lot of missing people and going far away from where people normally go. That way anyone that finds me is not likely to be a civilian, but rather a worker that signed up to have that sort of responsibility, and has likely already seen something similar before.

you must live in japan

It's not just a matter of seeking the least traumatizing method, but of understanding the devastating impact your death will have on those who love you. Do you really think that your action won't leave deep scars in the lives of those who love you? Your passing will not just be a moment of pain, but a permanent wound, a lack that will accompany them forever. The people around you will experience unimaginable pain, and their world will be turned upside down. They will be forced to deal with your absence, to ask themselves what they could have done to help you, to carry the weight of a void that is impossible to fill. And it's not just them: there's also the risk of creating a domino effect, where your decision could lead others to think this is the only way out, perpetuating a cycle of suffering. If you worry about not traumatizing strangers, remember that their reaction will be superficial: curious people who film and photograph, but who will never know your pain. The real trauma, the real devastation, will reside in the hearts of those who love you. It's them you should think about. Suicide is not just an individual act; it has enormous repercussions on a network of relationships, on families and friends who will have to face a complex and difficult loss. Your absence will become an indelible scar for the people who were close to you. Before making such a final decision, consider the emotional toll your gesture will have on them. If, however, you are only looking for an end to your suffering, then don't look back and do what brings you serenity, without barricading yourself behind an alleged caution towards strangers.

i actually dont have that many people who care since people don't love me that much.

 

[TAW122]

The acceptable risk for me in these kinds of scenario would depend on whether or not I'm putting them in (physical) danger or not, or directly involving them (putting them or forcing them to do something directly to cause my death - e.g. provoking a lethal response by the third party or something). If none of those apply to my method, then I am not going to go for something more peace while jeopardizing my plan to escape suffering (making it harder for myself just because I don't want to 'traumatize' someone). Anything else, such as the aftermath or so of dying, would be not of concern to me, partly because once I'm dead/non-sentient anymore, it would be irrelevant, but also because all humans eventually die and someone would still have to find my body, whether it is by natural causes, other causes, or self-inflicted. Of course, though, I will still take reasonable measures to minimize the amount of trauma people could encounter when I eventually end up CTB'ing, but not at the cost of method efficacy or jeopardizing my plan.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

It's not just a matter of seeking the least traumatizing method, but of understanding the devastating impact your death will have on those who love you. Do you really think that your action won't leave deep scars in the lives of those who love you? Your passing will not just be a moment of pain, but a permanent wound, a lack that will accompany them forever. The people around you will experience unimaginable pain, and their world will be turned upside down. They will be forced to deal with your absence, to ask themselves what they could have done to help you, to carry the weight of a void that is impossible to fill. And it's not just them: there's also the risk of creating a domino effect, where your decision could lead others to think this is the only way out, perpetuating a cycle of suffering. If you worry about not traumatizing strangers, remember that their reaction will be superficial: curious people who film and photograph, but who will never know your pain. The real trauma, the real devastation, will reside in the hearts of those who love you. It's them you should think about. Suicide is not just an individual act; it has enormous repercussions on a network of relationships, on families and friends who will have to face a complex and difficult loss. Your absence will become an indelible scar for the people who were close to you. Before making such a final decision, consider the emotional toll your gesture will have on them. If, however, you are only looking for an end to your suffering, then don't look back and do what brings you serenity, without barricading yourself behind an alleged caution towards strangers.

They will have to experience that grief regardless since we are all going to die anyway whether it be by suicide or by a natural death. Idk why people here act like the only way to cause grief to somebody is by suicide. No, the grief is inevitable since that's the consequence of your parents bringing you into existence. Also, I refuse to believe that the grief that somebody has is permanent as, from what I've read, it seems to fade away after a few years and, even if their grief is permanent, it's still inconsequential compared to the amount of time spent within the universe since they won't be living for long anyway

 

[L'absent]

Dovranno provare quel dolore in ogni caso, dato che moriremo tutti comunque, che sia per suicidio o per morte naturale. Non so perché le persone qui si comportino come se l'unico modo per causare dolore a qualcuno fosse il suicidio. No, il dolore è inevitabile, dato che è la conseguenza del fatto che i tuoi genitori ti hanno portato all'esistenza. Inoltre, mi rifiuto di credere che il dolore che qualcuno prova sia permanente, dato che, da quello che ho letto, sembra svanire dopo qualche anno e, anche se il loro dolore è permanente, è comunque irrilevante rispetto alla quantità di tempo trascorso nell'universo, dato che non vivranno a lungo comunque.

Ok ragazzi, ma oggi è Natale e questo non è spirito natalizio. Dobbiamo sacrificare anche i nostri metodi per il bene dei nostri fratelli. Amen e amiamoci in Gesù.

you must live in japan

i actually dont have that many people who care since people don't love me that much.

I understand. We at Sasu love you.

 

[rachybee]

I've been thinking about this. And who will find me. It's what is on my mind when I think about using the new train service to ctb. It would be so easy.

But I do have SN on order. It's just who will find me. No one ever comes to my home - no one contacts me unless me them. So I guess I'm gonna be dead a bit before found. I just feel bad for my pets.

 

[senti-mental]

A couple of these replies have surprised me - some people seem to be on some moral high horse about this. I'm on the same page as most of you, though. its a good point that we die regardless, and suicide doesn't cause significantly more pain if you don't consider the impact on those in your immediate circle/family.

Well, if we are taking about acceptableness...

Making someone be party to your death isn't right.

Making someone witness your death isn't right.

Having someone discover your corpse in all its glory without warning isn't really right either.

If you don't own your own home where you can arrange all of the details yourself (assuming you have a method you can execute in there), it is impossible to not unfairly impose on others. One of the consequences of the forced clandestine nature of suicide. But there are some pretty egregious things that we should avoid.

I understand how desperation and the knowledge that trauma can't really be eliminated can make you just not care period about any of it. But I don't think the sociopathic approach is still right.

The first two aren't fair. Making someone cause your death undeniably causes suffering, but if someone is choosing to CTB in a way that puts an unsuspecting person in the position of causing the death, they've surely been forced to resort to that method by lack of other available effective methods. Especially so with making someone witness your death, if someone jumps off a building, they probably wouldn't if they had something more peaceful and effective at home. If someone can put warnings up, like a sign, by all means do. But I can think of situations still where doing so could cause the person to be discovered and stopped prematurely. You acknowledged all that above, but it still seems like you think people just should suffer if they can't have a morally pristine suicide.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

A couple of these replies have surprised me - some people seem to be on some moral high horse about this. I'm on the same page as most of you, though. its a good point that we die regardless, and suicide doesn't cause significantly more pain if you don't consider the impact on those in your immediate circle/family.



The first two aren't fair. Making someone cause your death undeniably causes suffering, but if someone is choosing to CTB in a way that puts an unsuspecting person in the position of causing the death, they've surely been forced to resort to that method by lack of other available effective methods. Especially so with making someone witness your death, if someone jumps off a building, they probably wouldn't if they had something more peaceful and effective at home. If someone can put warnings up, like a sign, by all means do. But I can think of situations still where doing so could cause the person to be discovered and stopped prematurely. You acknowledged all that above, but it still seems like you think people just should suffer if they can't have a morally pristine suicide.

You asked for our opinions. Desperation doesn't make certain things "acceptable" as such. Understandable and able to sympathize with, sure. But "acceptable" which is the concept you wanted to talk about? Not really.

I acknowledged that it was impossible to eliminate trauma in a lot of instances and I didn't say that should absolutely preclude suicide. I even said the forced secrecy of suicide contributes to this.

I just don't agree with the "ill be dead so I don't have to care one iota mentality". My opinion which is what you were soliciting with your very title.

 

[EternalShore]

Making someone be party to your death isn't right.

I honestly hate that because since my dad found my SN and knows that it can be used to sewer slide, I'm so screwed because unless I just happen upon it (as it would take literally an entire day of constant searching with all these cabinets and stuff), I have to convince him to give it to me which will definitely involve me promising not to sewer slide with it and leave him with guilt forever, and it's just aaaaaaaaaaa! >_< I freaking hate my life! :(((

 

[opheliaoveragain]

following this bc it was a really good question OP.

I know the options vary so heavily over caring about it being public vs not and I can understand both sides (unless it involves a playground cough cough)

ace discussion starter tbh


eta: weird double type glitch lol

 

[senti-mental]

You asked for our opinions. Desperation doesn't make certain things "acceptable" as such. Understandable and able to sympathize with, sure. But "acceptable" which is the concept you wanted to talk about? Not really.

I acknowledged that it was impossible to eliminate trauma in a lot of instances and I didn't say that should absolutely preclude suicide. I even said the forced secrecy of suicide contributes to this.

I just don't agree with the "ill be dead so I don't have to care one iota mentality". My opinion which is what you were soliciting with your very title.

I also don't agree with the "I'll be dead so I don't have to care" but I think that's very different from "I care but have been forced into this situation" you're right, I did ask, this is a discussion. I'm not shaming anyone for their opinion any more than those opinions shame others.

Thanks everybody for engaging with this thread tho I thought it was dead on arrival at first lmao.
To sort of clarify, then answer my question, It's not an answer about what's the most moral that I'm looking for, and I'm not sure that's necessarily valuable here because that's even more subjective than my actual question. I'm more asking about how others quantify the risk of trauma/causing pain. The only way I've managed to do that is by comparison to my own painful experiences, but that's a scale that's only understood by me.

 

[hereornot]

I totally agree with @LaVieEnRose .

I think the CTB is an individual decision, it doesn't make sense to involve other people or use your decision to cause harm to others. Even if you no longer here, it wouldn't be right.

 

[3/4Dead]

acceptable risk is when you do everything in your power to avoid injuring or traumatizing others and minimize external involvement, and regardless of what happens in the end you did your best

 

[Spazsticatednoodle]

I understand this is highly subjective so I'm curious what other people feel about this, as I've ruled out certain methods in the past because they could traumatize more people than others. I feel any method has the potential to traumatize someone, because someone will find me dead. other methods will traumatize more people because some have to be done in public like jumping. And some put someone in the position of feeling responsible for your death, like if I jumped in front of a train. And then some methods just traumatize an individual worse than others, like a shotgun would traumatize whoever finds me worse than SN, because I would be in much worse condition when found.

I'm prone to black and white thinking, and I keep feeling that if I'm going to traumatize someone regardless, why not go for the most accessible/effective method for me regardless of who is affected? Btw my intention here is not to start a debate on what's more effective as a method, not gonna engage with that debate. just wondering what people think, if people think about how others will be effected by their method, because as I become more desperate after failing one method I'm turning to another that could affect more people negatively.

In my opinion it doesn't really matter if you traumatize someone in the end it won't matter because you would be dead and eventually they will Get over it or just not get over it they will die eventually anyway so in the end it doesn't matter