Discussion What if all suicidal people decided not to wageslave?

[TAW122]

This is something that has crossed my mind at times before. I've heard either from r/SS or elsewhere that the reason why the government and society itself doesn't allow people to suicide is that they are valuable assets to help run the economy as well as contribute to the system itself.

So I am wondering, what happens if hypothetically, all suicidal people decide to never work, not earn money (so no taxes for the government), nor decide to pay off the hospital bills from coerced or forced hospitalization and treatment? Then maybe just keep leeching off of the system. Would the system collapse or would there be enough of an impact that people start to treat people better or perhaps abolish involuntary hospitalization or forced treatment/psychiatric evaluation? Would they eventually just do nothing and leave the suicidal to their own devices (basically stop saving them)?

What do you think would happen, and why?

 

[YongeDundas]

Capitalism has never cared about suffering before. Why start now?

 

[Final Escape]

Capitalism has never cared about suffering before. Why start now?

Most countries are socialist, but many people think we live under free market capitalism lol! We are taught it's capitalism that causes economic hardship and suffering when it's really not. The US used to be more free market and then the socialists started to get into positions of power. Since then the state has grown and taken over a lot of major areas that used to make society a lot better and more prosperous. The state intervened in the family, healthcare, charity, corrupted the money system and started printing money not backed by any value thus gradually diminishing most people's economic well being. Now to retain your wealth u need to be able to own land, property, gold, silver, and bitcoin. Because when this finally is not sustainable anymore there's goin to be a financial collapse due to the altering of honest economics. In many countries we live under centrally planned economics, where the government controls a lot and individual persons have much less control over what your options are. Kids are forced to go to government schools where u don't actually go to be educated well, it's an institution to not educate kids and more about brainwashing. Government schools are an example of socialism.

 

[TAW122]

Most countries are socialist, but many people think we live under free market capitalism lol! We are taught it's capitalism that causes economic hardship and suffering when it's really not. The US used to be more free market and then the socialists started to get into positions of power. Since then the state has grown and taken over a lot of major areas that used to make society a lot better and more prosperous. The state intervened in the family, healthcare, charity, corrupted the money system and started printing money not backed by any value thus gradually diminishing most people's economic well being. Now to retain your wealth u need to be able to own land, property, gold, silver, and bitcoin. Because when this finally is not sustainable anymore there's goin to be a financial collapse due to the altering of honest economics. In many countries we live under centrally planned economics, where the government controls a lot and individual persons have much less control over what your options are. Kids are forced to go to government schools where u don't actually go to be educated well, it's an institution to not educate kids and more about brainwashing. Government schools are an example of socialism.

That's true and all, but how does that answer the original questions?

I suppose what I'm trying to ask is if someone was hospitalized against his/her will for being suicidal and then decided not to pay back the bills, not work, and is also really poor (I mean literally broke, just about homeless, no assets, no wealth, and what not), then just kept leeching off of society (panhandling, begging, and live on the streets) and refused to better their situation, would society just leave them to die or would they just keep being kept alive, forced into hospitals ad infinitum until they (naturally) die?

Also, if all suicidal people (or most of them at least) did that, what would society do? I'm sure they aren't going to ignore the problem or keep deluding themselves that things get better? I don't know.

 

[Final Escape]

That's true and all, but how does that answer the original question? I suppose what I'm trying to ask is if someone was hospitalized against his/her will for being suicidal and then decided not to pay back the bills, not work, and is also really poor (I mean literally broke, just about homeless, no assets, no wealth, and what not), then just kept leeching off of society (panhandling, begging, and live on the streets) and refused to better their situation, would society just leave them to die or would they just keep being kept alive, forced into hospitals ad infinitum until they (naturally) die?

What will happen is that if someone sees you outside dying in the elements, they will likely call the ambulance, and u will be taken to the emergency room. Patch you up a bit and probably send you right back out. There's obviously a variety of ways you can become vulnerable on the street, theft, getting jumped, you may not make it to the doctor for a chronic condition that requires u to see the doctor every so often to get refills on certain meds. You can also sometimes get tickets from cops if you are hanging out in wrong place too long. This is probably the scariest situation because let's say u can't pay the ticket, then it turns into a bench warrant and if they run across u again u get taken to jail. I guess jail can be an alternative to homelessness if u absolutely have no other choice but that would suck. Basically there's not that much help for you out there if you voluntarily choose to be homeless and not attempt to get at least housed and working. The system is designed to make it difficult to opt out of doing at least the bare minimum. They want u paying in somehow in exchange for existing lol!

 

[mattwitt]

As long as the American Gov't is printing up or electronically creating at least 80 billion new dollars every month and letting millions of illegals and legals into this country every year this country won't collapse for a while. And if they really wanted America to collapse all they have to do is get rid of all the entitlement programs at once. Which means this country is hanging on by a thread.

 

[Threads]

One of my favorite songs is called Hell March by Frank Klepacki. It is the theme for the game Red Alert. When I think about what would happen if all the wages slaves stopped work, I hear this song in my head.

While everyone in the unskilled and quasi skilled job market is replaceable by machines, I don't see it being socially acceptable or financially practical for corporations to do this. I feel the same way about self-driving cars. I don't see those sorts of vehicles or that technology making it through congress any time soon. That being said, the discussion is about what will happen if all suicidal people stopped working and earning money.

I don't have any statistics, but if we assume that people with half of the people with depression (8.1 million) in the United States stop going to their jobs and stop receiving medical treatment, the economy would take a nose dive.

https://www.verywellmind.com/depression-statistics-everyone-should-know-4159056 - source

As for the mental health question. One way or another, you're going to get nickeled and dimed. Of course, you're not paying for anything when you go to the hospital, but the hospital is paying for something. The supplies they use on you. The electricity, the personnel, etc, all of these have costs. Hospitals and healthcare businesses get massive write off's on their taxes. They don't really lose as much money as your lead to believe when a patient shows up with no insurance and doesn't pay.

I can give a longer reply and answer specific questions upon request. This is definitely a quality thread.

 

[Final Escape]

As long as the American Gov't is printing up or electronically creating at least 80 billion new dollars every month and letting millions of illegals and legals into this country every year this country won't collapse for a while. And if they really wanted America to collapse all they have to do is get rid of all the entitlement programs at once. Which means this country is hanging on by a thread.

I wonder if that will happen? Like when the welfare programs can't be funded anymore what will that look like oh god! A nightmare :(

 

[mattwitt]

I wonder if that will happen? Like when the welfare programs can't be funded anymore what will that look like oh god! A nightmare :(

It would look like a zombie apocalypse like out of that movie "World War Z" or Hurricane Katrina aftermath X's a few million.

 

[TAW122]

What will happen is that if someone sees you outside dying in the elements, they will likely call the ambulance, and u will be taken to the emergency room. Patch you up a bit and probably send you right back out. There's obviously a variety of ways you can become vulnerable on the street, theft, getting jumped, you may not make it to the doctor for a chronic condition that requires u to see the doctor every so often to get refills on certain meds. You can also sometimes get tickets from cops if you are hanging out in wrong place too long. This is probably the scariest situation because let's say u can't pay the ticket, then it turns into a bench warrant and if they run across u again u get taken to jail. I guess jail can be an alternative to homelessness if u absolutely have no other choice but that would suck. Basically there's not that much help for you out there if you voluntarily choose to be homeless and not attempt to get at least housed and working. The system is designed to make it difficult to opt out of doing at least the bare minimum. They want u paying in somehow in exchange for existing lol!

Hmm, in that case, I guess it is de facto a crime to be homeless (not directly, but indirectly) due to the circumstances and situations that occur while one is homeless. If so, I think suicide is still a better alternative to being homeless (or in jail/prison). As of now, I'm not homeless and still have the basic necessities thankfully, but I just know if there was a time where I know I'll be homeless, with little or no feasible way to get out of it, then I'll ctb. This is also considering all the existing problems and reasons on top of it; but homelessness is one major catalyst for a lot of people.

@mattwitt I guess in that case, I'll either try to survive the fallout (collapse of social order and society(, but if it turns out too hard, I might just ctb and save myself all the mess and suffering.

@Threads, that is quite an interesting perspective, I never thought about it that way. When I was thinking of my example, I was thinking of the absolute worst cases where one just simply refused to partake in society upon getting screwed over and over. I guess a question I have is, at what point does one not get 'nickled and dimed'? I assume there must be someone out there in the world desolate, resentful, and prideful enough (almost to the point of martyrdom and masochism) to stoically wait it all out, be it psych ward, hospital, jail, streets, etc. that eventually the system would either have to let him/her die, or always run a negative balance (even if it is drop in the ocean financially).

 

[Final Escape]

Hmm, in that case, I guess it is de facto a crime to be homeless (not directly, but indirectly) due to the circumstances and situations that occur while one is homeless. If so, I think suicide is still a better alternative to being homeless (or in jail/prison). As of now, I'm not homeless and still have the basic necessities thankfully, but I just know if there was a time where I know I'll be homeless, with little or no feasible way to get out of it, then I'll ctb. This is also considering all the existing problems and reasons on top of it; but homelessness is one major catalyst for a lot of people.

@mattwitt I guess in that case, I'll either try to survive the fallout (collapse of social order and society(, but if it turns out too hard, I might just ctb and save myself all the mess and suffering.

@Threads, that is quite an interesting perspective, I never thought about it that way. When I was thinking of my example, I was thinking of the absolute worst cases where one just simply refused to partake in society upon getting screwed over and over. I guess a question I have is, at what point does one not get 'nickled and dimed'? I assume there must be someone out there in the world desolate, resentful, and prideful enough (almost to the point of martyrdom and masochism) to stoically wait it all out, be it psych ward, hospital, jail, streets, etc. that eventually the system would either have to let him/her die, or always run a negative balance (even if it is drop in the ocean financially).

I'm probably going to be that person repeatedly going to emergency room and jail lol! Because I may not have courage to ctb. Finally I'd probably die in jail getting beat up by the other inmates or something.

 

[Kdawg2018]

I would rather be dead than in jail or homeless. In my area (currently wealthy, white) homeless ppl get cops called on them. Also, the police will "help" them by telling them they will move them to an area with services. This happens to be a less expensive area, and the next city over. The local park does not allow over night parking, so those living in car cannot park there safely. The next city over is rampant with drugs, crime, and homeless ppl, they just get moved over. Can confirm about getting ticket for loitering or public camping, you will get jailed for doing it again inside 30 days.

When I was working full time, but living in a van, I was harassed by police. I was even accused of loitering in the parking lot of the gym I was a member at (not sleeping at).

Finally, my neighborhood constantly complains about homeless ppl, they complain that they are camping outside, making fires (they have to stay warm & cook), and these ppl do not realize that as they age they could lose their home (tax increases, value increases) as their income decreases. What will they do when they are homeless?

Also, society doesn't care, they just don't want to see you when you are homeless. If you opt out of system you will die on streets or go to jail.

I recently watched ppl on TV living in Alaska, you can get paid to live there, no one cares what you do in rural areas as you will be the only one, and you can ctb by bear method...that's a great ctb method...

 

[TAW122]

I would rather be dead than in jail or homeless. In my area (currently wealthy, white) homeless ppl get cops called on them. Also, the police will "help" them by telling them they will move them to an area with services. This happens to be a less expensive area, and the next city over. The local park does not allow over night parking, so those living in car cannot park there safely. The next city over is rampant with drugs, crime, and homeless ppl, they just get moved over. Can confirm about getting ticket for loitering or public camping, you will get jailed for doing it again inside 30 days.

When I was working full time, but living in a van, I was harassed by police. I was even accused of loitering in the parking lot of the gym I was a member at (not sleeping at).

Finally, my neighborhood constantly complains about homeless ppl, they complain that they are camping outside, making fires (they have to stay warm & cook), and these ppl do not realize that as they age they could lose their home (tax increases, value increases) as their income decreases. What will they do when they are homeless?

Also, society doesn't care, they just don't want to see you when you are homeless. If you opt out of system you will die on streets or go to jail.

I recently watched ppl on TV living in Alaska, you can get paid to live there, no one cares what you do in rural areas as you will be the only one, and you can ctb by bear method...that's a great ctb method...

That's pretty fucked up, those people hate on the homeless and unfortunate yet when they eventually reach their shoes, I bet they wouldn't be singing their tune. I think most of those normies have no idea what they're talking about and think "It won't happen to me" over and over... until they themselves become homeless.

I agree with you on the statement about society, they don't care if you are suffering, they just don't want you to die on your own terms (suicide), nor want to deal with someone who is homeless (they still view them as mentally ill, lazy, trash, etc.), and pat themselves on their backs for platitudes and other useless shit. With all of that, it just reinforces the idea that society doesn't care but likes to pretend to care and look good for itself. It's all about them, but not the individual, it's a rather toxic hive mind/groupthink mindset.

Also, ctb by bear, doesn't that sound painful and scary? I imagine a bear tearing off one's limbs and biting and scratching them to death, doesn't sound like a pleasant way to die...

 

[okyeah]

Part of the reason I'm committing suicide is because I have had to rely on others for references to work. I've fucked up too much due to things out of my control and just general mental illness so now I have 0 references. I'm ready to go. There is no point to wage slaving and begging people to recommend me when I know they don't want to. If I were an honest person I would kill my self and I'm gonna do just that

 

[TAW122]

Part of the reason I'm committing suicide is because I have had to rely on others for references to work. I've fucked up too much due to things out of my control and just general mental illness so now I have 0 references. I'm ready to go. There is no point to wage slaving and begging people to recommend me when I know they don't want to. If I were an honest person I would kill my self and I'm gonna do just that

I don't really have work references, but I have some references from when I was a student at university so I just used those. Also, when I volunteered at a place, I also use them as a reference too.

 

[TAW122]

Just bumping this thread since this is a quality thread and I'd like to get more input on this hypothetical scenario.

One of my favorite songs is called Hell March by Frank Klepacki. It is the theme for the game Red Alert. When I think about what would happen if all the wages slaves stopped work, I hear this song in my head.

While everyone in the unskilled and quasi skilled job market is replaceable by machines, I don't see it being socially acceptable or financially practical for corporations to do this. I feel the same way about self-driving cars. I don't see those sorts of vehicles or that technology making it through congress any time soon. That being said, the discussion is about what will happen if all suicidal people stopped working and earning money.

I don't have any statistics, but if we assume that people with half of the people with depression (8.1 million) in the United States stop going to their jobs and stop receiving medical treatment, the economy would take a nose dive.

https://www.verywellmind.com/depression-statistics-everyone-should-know-4159056 - source

As for the mental health question. One way or another, you're going to get nickeled and dimed. Of course, you're not paying for anything when you go to the hospital, but the hospital is paying for something. The supplies they use on you. The electricity, the personnel, etc, all of these have costs. Hospitals and healthcare businesses get massive write off's on their taxes. They don't really lose as much money as your lead to believe when a patient shows up with no insurance and doesn't pay.

I can give a longer reply and answer specific questions upon request. This is definitely a quality thread.

I know threads is no longer active on here (he may be lurking if so), but I have always wanted to hear more in terms of what he meant in the last paragraph. While I'm sure someone might answer for him, I miss his quality thoughtful responses and would like to have him elaborate on this. Especially about the "nickled and dimed" part.

 

[TAW122]

I know this topic is super, super old, but since I have been waiting to hear @Threads explain his post (even though he hasn't been on in ages or ever since end of 2018), could somebody respond in his place? I'd like to know what he means by people will still get 'nickled and dimed'. I know that not everything is free and that there is always a cost to be incurred, however, I am referring to a large scale strike (meaning that 90-99% of the wageslavers decide to quit and also refused to payback any treatment), where how would they be nickled and dimed for it.

 

[lululoo]

I know this topic is super, super old, but since I have been waiting to hear @Threads explain his post (even though he hasn't been on in ages or ever since end of 2018), could somebody respond in his place? I'd like to know what he means by people will still get 'nickled and dimed'. I know that not everything is free and that there is always a cost to be incurred, however, I am referring to a large scale strike (meaning that 90-99% of the wageslavers decide to quit and also refused to payback any treatment), where how would they be nickled and dimed for it.

I think Threads may have just meant that the people who quit their jobs and couldn't pay would get nickel and dimed in terms of their mental health care. They wouldn't get offered much because they couldn't pay.

 

[Dreamcolleger]

I think one of the big reasons suicide isn't accessible is because we are useful cogs to society. Most people that would commit suicide would do it on impulse though.

It is pretty intriguing, automation is right around the corner, and millions of jobs are at risk. Once they don't need us, once too many people become a burden, I wonder if they will instantly turn their backs on "suicide prevention". I've read here before though that it would be very risky for a political party to back suicide as the family members may vote the other party in response to a suicide. Also people would still be useful for votes.

 

[Severen]

Nah, first of all. There aren't enough jobs for everyone. So there is no reason to keep as many people as possible alive for as long as possible so they can be wage slaves. Nowadays, just getting a fucking job is a luxury. And a lot of jobs have been taken over by machines, recently. And in the future, more jobs will be taken over by machines. The reason, they don't want people to CTB is because the major religions are against it and because a lot of people CTBing would mean less $$$ for corporations who sell medications, and less people being able to work in the health care industry etc. And then, you also have less people with decent jobs paying taxes etc... Less doctors, less nurses, less physician assistants, less therapists etc... So the governments would be getting less tax money. And the economy would become even worse. So that means even less tax money. And they don't want most of the population to have no work because they don't want most of the population on the streets with nothing to do but think about why they are starving and freezing to death... Because that could lead to a revolt. And a lot of people who want to CTB make good consumers for certain services and products. The ruling class never has to worry about a lack of wage slaves. Because most people will always be breeding like rabbits. And like I mentioned before, there are machines. And every day, these machines are becoming more and more advanced. And they like it when someone loses their job or can't find work and becomes homeless as long as the number of homeless people is not too high. Because homeless people benefit the system. If there was no health care industry and pharmaceutical industry, they would cheer people on for trying to CTB because then, these people would be useless in their eyes and euthanasia would be legal. EDIT: I forgot to mention. The more people, the more competition for jobs. This gives the employers the upper hand. And creates a population of desperate, stressed out people playing a game of musical chairs, constantly willing to lower their standards.

 

[TuesdayTragedy]

I don't quite think this adds up as suicide while it is quite high in the list of causes of deaths. If using us as workhorses is the prime motive there would be more reason to push people to be healthier. Heart disease being the #1 killer for example can likely be reduced quite notably if people adopted better lifestyles and diets. But the government isn't stopping you from eating terrible foods. Cancer causing products are more common than you'd think in-fact in America we still allow baby bottles to be made of a type of plastic that is linked with causing cancer. We'd see more regulations put on these types of things if our lived were at-least valued to a degree of being "wage slaves'

In America suicide while being 10th in ranking of cause of deaths only actually 1.64% of all deaths. Keep in mind some of that 1.64% are also people who are ill and would have died from that illness anyways but they didn't want to suffer anymore. You're not going to get much work done by the terminally ill. So whatever % is left after removing people who take their life for that reason is, is really nothing. Our unemployment rate is about 12.5 million people. while suicide claims less than 50,000 per year. The reality is suicide doesn't even begin to scratch the unemployment rate.

 

[not_a_robot]

That's true and all, but how does that answer the original questions?

I suppose what I'm trying to ask is if someone was hospitalized against his/her will for being suicidal and then decided not to pay back the bills, not work, and is also really poor (I mean literally broke, just about homeless, no assets, no wealth, and what not), then just kept leeching off of society (panhandling, begging, and live on the streets) and refused to better their situation, would society just leave them to die or would they just keep being kept alive, forced into hospitals ad infinitum until they (naturally) die?

Also, if all suicidal people (or most of them at least) did that, what would society do? I'm sure they aren't going to ignore the problem or keep deluding themselves that things get better? I don't know.

"leeches on society" are a valuable source of revenue.
Many many agencies reap enormous profit from pretending to provide care to the poor and mentally ill.

 

[TAW122]

Just bumping this topic as I think it is a quality thread and also could use some more input.

 

[Heart of Ice]

Google tells me that 3,9 % of the US population has suicidal thoughts. So probably not much.

 

[Mr2005]

I'm sure it would become much easier to commit suicide so there is that

 

[Broken Chimera]

I don't think I can say anything that hasn't already been said, but if all the suicidal people stops contributing then they'll end up homeless then end up in jail or a mental hospital. The system will get paid, one way or another.

On the other hand. If all the suicidal people killed themselves then the system would push for mental health for a week (trying to do the same thing expecting different results) and flashing the crisis line number during every newscast and literally nothing will change. Bottom line is as long as there are enough comfortable sheep, damn everyone else.

 

[thepolarbear]

Wouldnt make any difference.

 

[TAW122]

Those are interesting views btw.

@Broken Chimera Assuming your second hypothetical scenario is a reality, then without suicidal people in this world (which again, it's a hypothetical) wouldn't that mean that there are no more suicidal people around therefore the people who want to be around would still be around and rather unaffected by the event (except maybe for loved ones)? Unless of course, a new class or category of suicidal people fills the void?

 

[Broken Chimera]

Those are interesting views btw.

@Broken Chimera Assuming your second hypothetical scenario is a reality, then without suicidal people in this world (which again, it's a hypothetical) wouldn't that mean that there are no more suicidal people around therefore the people who want to be around would still be around and rather unaffected by the event (except maybe for loved ones)? Unless of course, a new class or category of suicidal people fills the void?

Under that scenario it would be more homicidal people. The new suicidal people couldn't be anymore suicidal than us. Right?

 

[a.n.kirillov]

Most countries are socialist, but many people think we live under free market capitalism lol! We are taught it's capitalism that causes economic hardship and suffering when it's really not. The US used to be more free market and then the socialists started to get into positions of power. Since then the state has grown and taken over a lot of major areas that used to make society a lot better and more prosperous. The state intervened in the family, healthcare, charity, corrupted the money system and started printing money not backed by any value thus gradually diminishing most people's economic well being. Now to retain your wealth u need to be able to own land, property, gold, silver, and bitcoin. Because when this finally is not sustainable anymore there's goin to be a financial collapse due to the altering of honest economics. In many countries we live under centrally planned economics, where the government controls a lot and individual persons have much less control over what your options are. Kids are forced to go to government schools where u don't actually go to be educated well, it's an institution to not educate kids and more about brainwashing. Government schools are an example of socialism.

Lol