Discussion What do you guys think is the problem with hotlines and textlines?

[Final_Choice]

I've heard a lot of bad experiences about the suicide hotline, but what could actually be done to improve them to help someone struggling that wants to get better?

 

[emptinessdancing]

I don't have the answer to this. I know that you usually don't have to have any credentials to volunteer as a part of the crisis hotline team. Which always makes me weary, because I already feel like I know more than most of my (highly credentialed) therapists. Maybe not "know more"----- more modestly put, I just don't feel like they "Get it" half the time. So that being said, I am a little sketch about the people that may be on the other side of the line should I ever be in the that position to want to reach out. (I probably won't. no shade. I just have a lot of shame and isolate as it is so I just genuinely don't see myself using one of these resources.) However, to answer your question--- about what could be done to improve this resource to help those struggling that actually want to get better? Training. And not in an "Educational" way. I would say--- people like you or I, who have LIVED experience, who generously volunteer our time to give back to this type of population. Again, I dont know the answer, but I think this would be a good place to start?

 

[EternalShore]

I don't have the answer to this. I know that you usually don't have to have any credentials to volunteer as a part of the crisis hotline team. Which always makes me weary, because I already feel like I know more than most of my (highly credentialed) therapists. Maybe not "know more"----- more modestly put, I just don't feel like they "Get it" half the time. So that being said, I am a little sketch about the people that may be on the other side of the line should I ever be in the that position to want to reach out. (I probably won't. no shade. I just have a lot of shame and isolate as it is so I just genuinely don't see myself using one of these resources.) However, to answer your question--- about what could be done to improve this resource to help those struggling that actually want to get better? Training. And not in an "Educational" way. I would say--- people like you or I, who have LIVED experience, who generously volunteer our time to give back to this type of population. Again, I dont know the answer, but I think this would be a good place to start?

I talked to someone who worked there, but they weren't allowed to share much~ They are trained on some stuff (unclear about how much), but it's also based on procedures too and certainly without as much lived empathy as here~ She was doing it as an internship as part of a degree~ She talked about them prioritizing making determining intent (plan, method, and materials) a priority (at which point, their supervisors would begin monitoring it) and then, finding something for them to hold onto and then, developing a crisis plan off of that~ If it got "really bad", a supervisor would do something, but she left that unclear~ They'd then debrief about stuff with a superior after to ensure they have good mental health too at least~ :)

All that being said, I'd more than likely never use one myself nor work for one unless they paid me (barring circumstances requiring it)~

 

[emptinessdancing]

I talked to someone who worked there, but they weren't allowed to share much~ They are trained on some stuff (unclear about how much), but it's also based on procedures too and certainly without as much lived empathy as here~ She was doing it as an internship as part of a degree~ She talked about them prioritizing making determining intent (plan, method, and materials) a priority (at which point, their supervisors would begin monitoring it) and then, finding something for them to hold onto and then, developing a crisis plan off of that~ If it got "really bad", a supervisor would do something, but she left that unclear~ They'd then debrief about stuff with a superior after to ensure they have good mental health too at least~ :)

All that being said, I'd more than likely never use one myself nor work for one unless they paid me (barring circumstances requiring it)~

Yeah.. see? That is not anything that one wouldn't receive in an out or inpatient or just a weekly therapy setting. The goal is always de-escalation. (more to cover their asses than actually save yours) And honestly, we all de-escalate at some point or we wouldn't be here, you know? It's just--- where do you go from there? I suppose this serves a purpose for a large population, so I am in no way poo-pooing on it. Everything has a time and a place and a purpose. I just think there's always so much more to be gleaned from experience over "Education".

 

[MetroPunk]

I've called once and got nothing from it. The person was, in my opinion, reading from a prompt or something. I was speaking to a piece of paper. It did not help at all. I'd never call again.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

Them not being legally allowed to trace your location would be fantastic to start.

 

[HereTomorrow]

The problem with hotlines.

1. They're more often than not mandated reporters (required to call authorities for a suicidal person). If they believe you will end your life (just believe, not that you actually are), police will show up to your door. If you resist, they will fight. So basically it's a "If you don't calm down in ten minutes we'll call the cops" kind of line. Free trauma, will almost make you more suicidal.

2. They're overworked. Too many callers. Some hotlines advise against calling between 23:00-06:00 due to being clogged. You know, please refrain from calling the number you call in case of emergency. In the worst ase scenario, they may call emergency services to deal with you if you're taking too long to calm down because they need to answer the very next call.

3. Too much exposure to suicidal people will either make them numb or empathetic, only reading the mandatory lines in the most monotone voice from their training.

4. There was a short period of time where calls were recorded for quality assurance as well as studying patterns that genuinely suicidal people say versus those in general distress. Most people automatically hung up after hearing "Your call may be recorded". Free privacy breach.

To improve the hotline, a few things needs to be done.

1. Increase the amount of volunteers and lower their hours working. Provide the people working the lines mandatory breaks after a certain number of calls as well as complimentary mental health support for the most traumatic calls. It is mentally draining to handle nothing but suicidal people for hours at a time.

2. Remove the legal mandatory reporting requirements from the hotline and only bring police if the caller explicitly consents. Trace the general county location only should a person be actively looking for resources, but not addreses or other PII. It removes the risk of police in which people would rather CTB than handle them, saving lives.

3. Focus on empathy and reassurance before analyzing the caller's mental state and plan to process the thoughts. This increases trust, honesty, and will eventually deescalate. Most people do not call the hotline and end their life less than a minute in. People want another human to connect with, not a person judging their every word in the name of "safety".

 

[ebg]

I think the fact that if we mention violence to ourselves or others, we may get sent a welfare check-up. I think people who are calling/texting don't feel like they can say all that they want to say and still have to put up an appearance. Or maybe those contacting them feel intimidated because of maybe how formal the responder sounds.

 

[Jack_Nimble]

Maybe, and I really do mean maybe, as in I can't say for sure or don't really know. But maybe they aren't a good idea at all. Maybe there isn't a way for them to be good or helpful. I feel this way cause I don't think they ever could be personal enough, or caring enough, or connected to the individual enough.

 

[iji]

I had mostly good experiences with hotline/helplines. Some specially better than others, e.g. I've been fortunate to even have some great volunteer psychologists, therapists, etc to pick up the call and give me great advice and understand what I speak in technical terms (because I know some stuff about human mind and behavior). A few are too tired because it's likely the end of their shift. But when it comes to an actual bad crisis, it's bad (they generally hang up the call without notice).

I actually prefer calling the hotline/helplines than going to e.g. a therapist, or talking with people in real life about struggles. Because generally it's a 1 time call with someone different every time so there's not compassion fatigue with me specifically. And I can always call it any time (24h). And I personally have had more great conversations with hotline/helpline volunteers than going to psychologists/therapists. Like the last psychologist I went to totally invalidated me.

 

[I don't exist]

From my experience and maybe it's just because of my location, they're awfully robotic and scripted. I wouldn't be surprised if this got replaced with AI or an automated response situation, it's the same conversation every time so it feels like it's not far off. The workers seem (understandably) exhausted and sick of it. They don't take you seriously, they invalidate you and for me it feels like talking to a brick wall only making things worse.

The few times I've tried to speak to them have led me to an even worse mental state often ending in self harm, OR I'm left so angry at the state of care for people who are suffering that my mental state has gone from self hatred to a deep hatred of other people/society (Which I guess helps as a distraction, but not in a good way and I'm sure this isn't their intention. Could you imagine how problematic this could be for someone with outwardly violent tendencies though?)

I think it's pretty shitty of professionals, friends and even content creators to push the "if you are feeling this way please call *insert Suicide helpline phone number* because honestly when you're feeling at the absolute end, the way you are spoken to or just passed off to be someone else's burden feels idk, insulting? Especially when whoever is answering the phone doesn't offer REAL resources beyond this one phone call, like sometimes here they'll just send a couple of disgruntled police officers to your house, and that's not ideal for anyone involved. Again these are just my experiences and it's possible that it's dependent on where you are in the world, but anyone I know personally who has shared their experiences has had these same issues which honestly fucking sucks to hear.

I hope that it's better elsewhere, I can only hope these services DO help people and there is a reason for these helplines to exist. Hell, maybe I've just had really bad luck!

 

[tirednwired]

Ironically I used to work for a suicide text line. I always tried to be as empathetic as possible for every texter and had some that really affected me emotionally. The problem is that a lot of the workers are only doing it for the resume boost and/or volunteer hours and don't actually put much thought into what they say, as the program has basically no requirements besides a pretty short, free training course. "I don't exist" also mentioned this in their post, but another thing is that the way we are taught to respond is really robotic, like you might as well be talking to chatgpt. There was so many instances where I wanted to say something to a texter but couldn't because it didn't follow protocol and our supervisors can see our message history.

 

[Sutter]

New paradigm.

Make it a charity funded by those who care. Offer a routing, religion, non religion, and person. Offer serious training to the volunteers, pay them. No glorious resume bumper, just a run of the mill worked there. Any words spoken in understanding and support allowed. Supervisors maintain integrity of volunteer only. Trust is paramount. No proselytizing for life or death. Seminars from those that have been there and hiring preference for them. At no point are authorities contacted unless requested by caller.

Some of this may be harsh but here's the rub in my view. How the line is handled will get out, may make loved ones happy but how many died because they wouldn't call, because they didn't trust the line or the person. For every smiling loved one 10 more mourn. Would we rather all possibly get some peace in their last moments, if that's where they are or stuff flowers in a few noses while the rest die in a ditch. There are some caring volunteers I am sure but the current design was not for those it wanted to be. Hence SaSu.

SaSu loses members, we are not all professionals but in some way are kindred in suicide to some extent. Why do we come here? How many lives were saved here? How many moved on but at least had a friend here? How many have felt more acceptance and a kindred soul suffering the same?

Want a better suicide line? Want to actually reach people? Would say as unprofessional as this place is from a clinical setting it does more than most other efforts put forward. It's not just caring, it's the strings that bind other avenues are not the ones that always save. It's the strings the suffering put out themselves to others their trust, connection, acceptance and need.

Views vary this is mine turf or use.

 

[human909]

They aren't really helpful for me since they just gonna bring me to the hospital again and go over the same old shit. That's why I like this website since people understand how I feel.

 

[iwishiwishiwish]

Me: 'I can't sleep nor eat'
Them: 'Maybe you should try sleeping or eating'

*mindblown*

 

[mortalityisbadass]

I've had a couple experiences with hotlines and textlines. Some conversations were genuinely helpful and helped push me towards a better path. But I noticed many volunteers being very new or inexperienced. And a couple responders were condescending or straight up rude to me when I was asking for help. One time I was put on hold because someone on the other line needed more urgent help, it probably would've been hilarious if I didn't have severe imposter's syndrome.

I think most of these hotlines lack proper funding and resources to help people. And even volunteers that want to be helpful suffer from compassion fatigue.

I don't blame the people on the other line who didn't know how to help, but I do blame the governments who cut the funding for these hotlines.

 

[The_Hunter]

New paradigm.

Frankly wonderfully written, fine ideas, I do admit they are.

Make it a charity funded by those who care. Offer a routing, religion, non religion, and person.

Agree with this whole-heartedly. By routing based on that, we get to connect with people deeply and directly. Now a believing person may speak heart-to-heart with a fellow believing person; the areligious person may speak heart-to-heart with a fellow areligious person. That is a level of common base, that is absolutely essentially--and frankly, very meaningful. Excellent idea.

On a side note; this reminds me of. I once thought to myself that if I ever planned my own funeral, that I would want to have separate services for religious and areligious; so everyone could feel their catharsis completely, without having to hold back their feels to respect another's ideas. Thank you for your idea; seems fine indeed.

Offer serious training to the volunteers, pay them. No glorious resume bumper, just a run of the mill worked there. Any words spoken in understanding and support allowed. Supervisors maintain integrity of volunteer only. Trust is paramount. No proselytizing for life or death. Seminars from those that have been there and hiring preference for them. At no point are authorities contacted unless requested by caller.

... but how many died because they wouldn't call, because they didn't trust the line or the person.

So damn true. This is the problem with hotlines. They are very filtering, and a scary leap to anyone calling. The people who actually call them are a mere selection of all suicidal people. So by increasing that selection, you are genuinely saving lives--trust, trust matters most here--not "% saved", or similar numerical counts. We cannot determine the amount that we truly affect the lives of others; and even if there is positive impact and lives saved, we cannot count that. So we should embrace that, and leave trust and autonomy as virtues we seek to uphold.

... Would we rather all possibly get some peace in their last moments, if that's where they are or stuff flowers in a few noses while the rest die in a ditch.

Stuff flowers in a few noses... I like that wording. Yes, I agree. Why not some peace and tranquility as opposed to a hollow loneliness, for those people--everyone deserves something nice in their most pernicious moments.

There are some caring volunteers I am sure but the current design was not for those it wanted to be. Hence SaSu.

SaSu loses members, we are not all professionals but in some way are kindred in suicide to some extent. Why do we come here? How many lives were saved here? How many moved on but at least had a friend here? How many have felt more acceptance and a kindred soul suffering the same?

Darn... that's true! I do believe this place has truly, truly helped many people. And saved, saved many people too--not just from the "tickbox" of "alive or dead", but from the very real and incomprehensible struggles we face in life--that are compounded by loneliness and being unable to form the right words to name our lives. The language of others... in moments of confusion--is a weighty thing.

Want a better suicide line? Want to actually reach people? Would say as unprofessional as this place is from a clinical setting it does more than most other efforts put forward. It's not just caring, it's the strings that bind other avenues are not the ones that always save. It's the strings the suffering put out themselves to others their trust, connection, acceptance and need.

Views vary this is mine turf or use.

Seems like a great idea indeed. I affirm your proposal! Thank you for sharing. I hope something like it--even if it is not identical to how you described--just with the same ethos of respect infused in your idea from it's root, the same ethos of respect that this site can offer--comes about in our world, comes about well, comes about powerfully, and widely, too. I hope the current situation we are in, changes--that this system is revolutionized, somehow.

Thanks for your words. I really appreciate them. Great to hear you speak on this crucial matter.