Venting wage slavery

[Darkover]

these are just my opinions

I'd almost rather kms than have to do this shit grind fest just to survive another 30 years,
I genuinely don't understand why anyone would actually want to be here for decades, while I'd be fine if I died tomorrow
what's the point of having this incredibly productive economy with all this output if our lives aren't any better? I think most people are unhappy with it

Why do people still not protesting about shorter working time? I get home just to work again. Life is meaningless and not worth living for this way. Why be slaves to the people who can still pay our regular rates even if we work 5 hours daily. Are people okay living like this til you die? Do people even want their children to be so much happier in the future or are they okay with just being abused?

 

[LaVieEnRose]

That's why people strive to have careers they enjoy and put themselves through grueling education to get them. From another point of view as a disabled person I do feel the ability to earn an independent livelihood is a privilege not accessible to everyone.

 

[lacrimosa]

 

[frost_]

these are just my opinions

I'd almost rather kms than have to do this shit grind fest just to survive another 30 years,
I genuinely don't understand why anyone would actually want to be here for decades, while I'd be fine if I died tomorrow
what's the point of having this incredibly productive economy with all this output if our lives aren't any better? I think most people are unhappy with it

Why do people still not protesting about shorter working time? I get home just to work again. Life is meaningless and not worth living for this way. Why be slaves to the people who can still pay our regular rates even if we work 5 hours daily. Are people okay living like this til you die? Do people even want their children to be so much happier in the future or are they okay with just being abused?

How much do you enjoy life outside work?

I think most people not on this forum balance their lives by building on relationships, friendships, sports, physical fitness, hobbies, entertainment, creative outlets. It starts small, but every week they can "save" their progress and continue building to add meaning and happiness.

Some of us have very few of these pillars. Could be why we're so unhappy. There's no balance or extra spark from activities you genuinely enjoy.

Eating, pooping, sleeping is a dull routine.

I don't think people would argue with you if they only ate, slept and worked for 40 years. And if you're sad the whole time, everything feels worse than it should.

 

[Ash]

I've had part time minimum wage jobs I enjoyed because of my colleagues and what the money allowed me to do with the rest of my time (sixth form and the usual socialising and then the rest of my education and even more socialising) and later on, running a smallholding which paid for itself but not pesky things like my rent and bills. In between I had a career that I loved but was unable to pursue any further as I didn't want to live in London or any major city, so pursued a different path and discovered that I really hated it and myself. Hence the smallholding and a return to minimum wage jobs. Then my mental health deteriorated because I and everyone around me had been ignoring the warning signs since childhood and I've ended up here.

But there we go. Highs and lows. Genuinely great memories. Some I'd rather not dwell on. Big regrets on my part. A lot I'd change to improve life for workers and society in general because I am a socialist and greed does disgust me. As does the feeling that some people get to take but never put back (health and some personal situations excepted). But every living creature "works" in one form or another, whether it's filtering nutrients from seawater or gathering food while it's available and hibernating in winter or hunting prey year round or Emperor penguins continually swapping shifts with its mate in Antarctica to create and then guard the egg and then feed the chick until it's ready to fend for itself. That we changed hunting and gathering to something specialised the way some animals like some bees and ants and termites have doesn't make us better or worse, IMHO. Yes, we need to severely crack down on greed and unfair work and trade practices and genuine slavery and ensure people have a fair wage and good housing and access to education and healthcare and utilities and resources and reduce the differences and life opportunities and outcomes between being born in Mayfair, Malaysia and Madagascar. But I believe that with each generation, we move a step closer to doing so. Maybe I'm naive. But to bring it back to the notion of work, when I got my first job, here in the UK we didn't have a national minimum wage. The Tories told us that society would collapse overnight if it was introduced. Well it was introduced and overnight my single parent family's incomes (mine and my mother's) both doubled. We had a roast dinner with all the trimmings the first Sunday after the first payday on the new national minimum wage because it was the first time in fuck knows how long we could afford something so luxurious after years of buying whatever was left on the 10p shelves or whatever crap was offer that didn't taste anything like the name implied. Now the NMW isn't considered good enough and even the idea of a "living wage" is old hat. So I might be naive but I do believe in the good of people as well as the bad. I've seen both. We're all capable of both. True good and evil only exists in fairy tales and John Wayne films.

Just my two pence worth, FWIW.

(Disclaimer. I'm currently signed off work due to my mental health. If I could rely on myself to cope with work and a work environment and learning the skills to cope with a new job and do it how ever many hours a week, then yes, I'd go back. But I'm a bit like the British weather at the moment. Changeable, unreliable and your night as well take a coat and sunglasses because you genuinely don't know how the day will go.)

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

I greatly dislike what the system has turned into. The WW2 generation was able to buy a house, car and raise a family on a single income just by going to work and saving.

Now with even a good paying job it's not enough. You have to have side hustles or do things on the Internet requiring you to have a public persona and popularity. On top of that you need to learn investing requiring an aptitude for math. But not everyone has the time to work, live and learn a skill they don't even have a passion for. And if you weren't raised right or have trauma, forget about it. It's just too much really.

 

[aslank98]

It sucks even more when you realise that you can't even get a semi decent job. I'm stuck working bottom of the barrel slave jobs due to my disability. I literally have zero chance of climbing the ladder.

Not that I even want to climb the ladder in the first place because this world is a cruel joke anyway lol

My options are work minimum wage, low barrier slave jobs which will likely be replaced by ai in the future.

Or I can catch the bus.

I don't know how much longer I can continue waking up doing the same meaningless shit.

My life could be a lot worse to be fair but I honestly don't give a fuck anymore.

I lack purpose, friendship, hobbies or meaning. My disability makes achieving these things very very difficult.

Even if I had all of those things listed above, they are merely a distraction meant to keep you from the harsh truths of this shit hole reality.

Death is coming to save us all one day! Thank god for that.

 

[derpyderpins]

what's the point of having this incredibly productive economy with all this output if our lives aren't any better?

Our lives have gotten better, just not nearly fast enough. It's like technology increased exponentially but lifestyle increased with exponential decay.

I think most people are unhappy with it

It's just statistically not true. A majority of people are happy and happiness is higher in countries where the type of "slave" jobs are available.

Happiness and Life Satisfaction

Self-reported life satisfaction differs widely between people and between countries. What explains these differences?

ourworldindata.org

It's an insurmountable obstacle to this idea that all work and any lifestyle that includes a job is automatically terrible.

Why do people still not protesting about shorter working time?

I don't know... I wish they would. We should be. In the USA it's this tribalist mentality we have. "Oh those guys who vote the other way want to work fewer hours, well screw that I'll just work more!" It doesn't make sense and I'm also frustrated.

I get home just to work again. Life is meaningless and not worth living for this way. Why be slaves to the people who can still pay our regular rates even if we work 5 hours daily.

It's what's available and a majority of people find it to be worthwhile. Most people have some combination of (1) not seeing work as such gruesome torture and more along the lines of "meh," and (2) thinking that time off work makes up for the difference.

Are people okay living like this til you die?

Not many other options. I'm working the job where I can hate my time at work the least and retire the earliest. Whether I'm "okay" with it isn't really a question, it's my best option. That's like asking "[a]re people okay living when they have to breath?" Even if they're not "okay" with it, they're going to keep breathing.

Do people even want their children to be so much happier in the future or are they okay with just being abused?

Since most people are happy, they don't see existence as abuse.

 

[Jarni]

Our lives have gotten better, just not nearly fast enough. It's like technology increased exponentially but lifestyle increased with exponential decay.


It's just statistically not true. A majority of people are happy and happiness is higher in countries where the type of "slave" jobs are available.

Happiness and Life Satisfaction

Self-reported life satisfaction differs widely between people and between countries. What explains these differences?

ourworldindata.org

It's an insurmountable obstacle to this idea that all work and any lifestyle that includes a job is automatically terrible.


I don't know... I wish they would. We should be. In the USA it's this tribalist mentality we have. "Oh those guys who vote the other way want to work fewer hours, well screw that I'll just work more!" It doesn't make sense and I'm also frustrated.


It's what's available and a majority of people find it to be worthwhile. Most people have some combination of (1) not seeing work as such gruesome torture and more along the lines of "meh," and (2) thinking that time off work makes up for the difference.


Not many other options. I'm working the job where I can hate my time at work the least and retire the earliest. Whether I'm "okay" with it isn't really a question, it's my best option. That's like asking "[a]re people okay living when they have to breath?" Even if they're not "okay" with it, they're going to keep breathing.


Since most people are happy, they don't see existence as abuse.

There are pleasant moments, but happiness, I don't think it exists. As some philosophers and intellectuals think this too (Luc Ferry, Schopenhauer etc...).

Tere are lots of abusive relationships, heart breaks, illnesses, disabilities, deaths of relatives etc.... You can't be happy if your parents, e.g., are tortured by a maniac or by a dementia etc....

I loved life before being very physically ill (essentially because I knew from the start that life can end at any moment), but everything is clear for me about this world since 14 y.o...

 

[derpyderpins]

There are pleasant moments, but happiness, I don't think it exists. As some philosophers and intellectuals think this too (Luc Ferry, Schopenhauer etc...).

Tere are lots of abusive relationships, heart breaks, illnesses, disabilities, deaths of relatives etc.... You can't be happy if your parents, e.g., are tortured by a maniac or by a dementia etc....

I loved life before being very physically ill (essentially because I knew from the start that life can end at any moment), but everything is clear for me about this world since 14 y.o...

It's true that there is a lot of bad. I acknowledge that. I mean, I'm here. I've spent 2/3 of my life thinking of killing myself.

But it's important to step back and realize that the people who gather here are not the normal experience. Abusive relationships, disabilities, dementia, these things are awful but luckily most people either don't have them or only have them a limited amount. Heart breaks, illness, deaths of relatives . . . those are all part of the human experience, and it is possible to live a life with those things but enough good to outweigh them.

"Happiness", of course, being a convenient but probably inaccurate word for what we're trying to describe. More applicable would be contentedness or satisfaction.

 

[Jarni]

It's true that there is a lot of bad. I acknowledge that. I mean, I'm here. I've spent 2/3 of my life thinking of killing myself.

But it's important to step back and realize that the people who gather here are not the normal experience. Abusive relationships, disabilities, dementia, these things are awful but luckily most people either don't have them or only have them a limited amount. Heart breaks, illness, deaths of relatives . . . those are all part of the human experience, and it is possible to live a life with those things but enough good to outweigh them.

"Happiness", of course, being a convenient but probably inaccurate word for what we're trying to describe. More applicable would be contentedness or satisfaction.

yes I agree with you too.

Personally before falling ill, I had a lot of difficult moments, especially in childhood and adolescence, I thought from time to time "I want to die", but afterwards it was always "well actually, I'm going to die in any case, so let's play this game again and try to have the maximum pleasure."

Statistically 1 in 4 men is a narcissistic pervert, so there are a lot of women (mainly) who have big problems with them, without being suicidal. There are a lot of groups on FB for women and we can see what's happening in people's lives, without them becoming suicidal....

Apart from that people have a lot of problems with children, there are also a lot of sick children etc...
Those who cannot find a soul mate, or love etc. .. In short, many things that prevent you from being happy or satisfied. Without them going to this forum....

I have friends who have incredible lives, top managers in super exciting jobs or intellectuals, I can say that they are not necessarily happy. They have (full) fun times. But to the question if they are happy, they would answer no.

But it is above all lucidity about life that allows them to have a good life. I think that's really the key, lucidity instead of pessimism.

I think that it is precisely the search for happiness that is imposed on us everywhere that harms people. If everyone was ok with the fact that there are good times and bad times, and that's just it, people would feel less unhappy sometimes :-)

Well, it's a big topic.

 

[Not A Fan]

Statistically 1 in 4 men is a narcissistic pervert,

I'm actually surprised this number isn't higher.

 

[Jarni]

I'm actually surprised this number isn't higher.

Yeah... I see lots for sure (only from a big distance now:-).

 

[Not A Fan]

How much do you enjoy life outside work?

I do. A lot, actually... and that's sort of the problem. I'm terrible at math but this is a simple one:

There are 168 hours in a week.
You'll spend about 50 of those hours sleeping.
So 118 Waking hours if you never sleep in.

A person typically spends 9 hours at work (including unpaid breaks) and a commute of 1 hour each way is typical.
So roughly an 11-hour commitment, times 5 working days = 55 hours (much more than the "40 hours per week" often described!)
This leaves a remainder of 64 hours per week at most; many salaried workers and others work hours above the minimum, so in practicality it is often lower.

Most people don't have servants, so a significant portion of that time goes to buying and preparing meals, laundry, cleaning. In addition to miscellaneous other housekeeping tasks and maintenance, doctors appointments, exercise routines etc. 10 - 15 hours per week.

Next are perhaps personal obligations, such as time spent with a spouse, parents, children or romantic partner. Most people require such connections and devoting time to them is not negotiable. If one wants to maintain friendships beyond these immediate relations, that will involve a similar time investment. 20 - 30 hours per week.

This means that, practically speaking, the average worker has less only around 20 hours per week left to devote to other activities such as intellectual or artistic pursuits. If one is willing to sacrifice from one these other essential categories, that number could potentially be increased, but at a great cost.

Some (very few) people manage to align their creative passions with their financial benefit but a simple matter of supply and demand ensures they will be always be the exception rather than the rule. If someone has to be forcibly separated from the activities which give their life meaning, then they may just decide that continued survival isn't worth the trouble. While I'm sure this is not the case for everyone, it definitely is for some (including myself.) It seems to me like a weak substitute for actually living, a phony, hollowed-out vestige with no aesthetic appeal.