Help Urgent SN Protocol advice, PLEASE, all welcome!

[DOHARDTHINGS24]

Please help.
This is a rough draft of my protocol & it's very last minute - my decision is not.
I gave myself a "deadline" of not seeing in 2025 (hell, it's even my user name!) & I'm definitely sticking to this, but my protocol is not ready.
I have a bunch of reasons / excuses for this like traumatic brain injury plus ADHD & just a phone - no laptop or other devices - & no digital or physical privacy (coercive control living situation).
These things are separate as to WHY I want to CTB - while it's appreciated, I don't need any help regarding escaping or recovery etc.
The decision is made, it will not be unmade.
I've posted here a lot but as per above, I remember very little of it & have not been able to screengrab anything or even handwrite much. I just don't have the privacy.
I'm super open to critique - I welcome / beg of you to all pile on - the more the merrier!!
Feel free to speak to me like I'm an idiot (that's how I feel in this process) - no holds barred. Point out the obvious - I've forgotten much more than I remember, ffs.
Or please just bump - my bus is already on it's way & I'm climbing aboard, whether I'm ready or not.
I'd rather be ready , hence the more the merrier, the quicker the better. I have follow up questions I'll add to this later, I just wanted to post asap. Time matters.
But then I'll (hopefully) finally stop bugging people with dumb questions - if you help me be successful, I'll stop being annoying
Incentive
I cannot do a proper trial of my AE. I know that most side effects take hours, days or weeks. Hence doing stat dose. And it's completely possible I'll get none at all. None. I know that. But I cannot afford to take chances. I read up a lot yesterday regarding MY personal situation, current medications & my AE (not meto). The research & drug interaction checkers said its likely I'll have some sort of side effect, even with just one dose. The most likely side effects are:
- drowsiness, sedation, confusion
- blurred vision, hallucinations & falls
- extrapyramidal uncontrollable movements like jerkiness, tremors & seizures.
This is not ideal for being competent to make the SN or to be confident for success.
I know this doesn't apply to everyone, I know none of it might happen but anxiety has me wanting to be prepared for worst case. Which is a long way of saying I'm going to make 2 cups of SN before AE & a third after AE. Because what do I do if the AE fucks me up?? Plus anxiety...

I plan to stop eating heavy
meals & restrict thick & coloured liquids as far in advance as possible.

The below is based on 8 hour fast, not sure if that long is necessary - I've seen 4 hours to 24 hours listed here plus pph just says "several".

Stat dose SN protocol

4.00pm
stop food
minimal clear liquids only

10.00pm
stop drinking

11.00pm
using digital scales, measure out 2 separate batches of 25 grams of SN (DMC) - for visual reassurance only, each batch should be approx 4 teaspoons.

mix each batch of SN with 50ml of plain, room temperature water (increasing to a maximum of 100ml to ensure fully dissolved & drinkable).
Each batch will be stored in separate dark, sealed jars, away from light & heat & labelled.
DO NOT DRINK YET

precrush valium / diazepam as well, without mixing with water, but have a sealed container of water ready for later
Dose yet to be determined, see below - maybe 100mg? maybe 200mg?

12.00am / midnight
take AE
Prochlorperazine
Dose yet to be determined, see below - "probably" 20mg

After 12.00am / midnight
if capable (no major AE side effects), make a third cup of SN following the same process as above & label.

decide which cup of SN to be cup 1 - if not impaired, I'll use the freshest first.

mix precrushed valium / diazepam with container of water, using a separate style container than the 3 cups of SN to avoid confusion, using minimal water.

use minimal amount of throat numbing spray

12.40am / middle of night
drink first cup SN

if vomit, drink cup 2 immediately

if vomit, drink cup 3

take valium / diazepam crushed in water

lay down on right side

wait & pray for my bus

Unsure whether to take any painkillers or not, if I do it will be paracetamol.
I won't be taking any beta
blockers/ PPI / antacid / anything additional to above.

OMG - you have no idea how long that took to tap out on a phone
Longer than it took me to prepare.

I really hope it was worth it
Any help appreciated.
I'm desperate (but have been before) but this time my bus is coming soon. This will be my first ever attempt & I need success & i need it soon & I need help to make that happen.
There's a real urgency here.
I literally might not have time to go back & read the advice already given to me which I feel really shit about...

If you can help, please do.
Or bump.
Please don't derail with questions about sources & stuff - I really NEED this to be about ME.
Please.

Extra info about AE & Benzo's below.
Any help with dosages would be amazing.
I've got more questions but no more time. I'm just gonna post this right now without editing, that's how much of a hurry I'm in. ️ ️

Prochlorperazine
Pph says 10mg on one page & 10-20mg on another...
The information for my brand (which doesn't mention CTB as an option ) says a max of 40mg in one day over 3 doses for vomiting or max of 60mg over 4 doses for schizophrenia.

Valium / diazepam
Pph says 500mg, so does Vizzys bible, athiestjoe says 300mg, converters range from 150-1200mg, with most saying 200-300. As that's based on whole pills on a full stomach & crushing & fasting will flood my system quick.
I weigh 55 -ish kilos, am old but not old enough for exit & regularly take Benzo's but not at high doses.
So maybe 100-200mg valium / diazepam??
I'm concerned about anxiety & am considering taking half a tablet of temazepam (not crushed) after seeing if AE sedates me, to take the edge off. I know it's adding another med & to keep simple but I'm much more confident with temazepam, that it won't impair me the way valium would.

 

[charaunderground]

Don't see anything particularly wrong with the regiment after skimming.

Bumping.

 

[DOHARDTHINGS24]

Don't see anything particularly wrong with the regiment after skimming.

Bumping.

Thanks so much for the bump. I truly appreciate it. Truly.
My outta control anxiety is not calmed with the bits about skimming & nothing particularly wrong though
Thanks again

 

[charaunderground]

Thanks so much for the bump. I truly appreciate it. Truly.
My outta control anxiety is not calmed with the bits about skimming & nothing particularly wrong though
Thanks again

Sorry, I'm a bit drunk so not up for in-depth analysis at the moment. Will bump again in the morning if you don't get any other responses.

 

[DOHARDTHINGS24]

Sorry, I'm a bit drunk so not up for in-depth analysis at the moment. Will bump again in the morning if you don't get any other responses.

You a bit drunk is still better than me at my best, I'm sure.
Truly appreciate it. Not sure how many mornings are left for me, so I'll take all the bumps I can, thanks.

 

[rozeske]

It looks well thought out and planned, i don't see anything wrong with it. I wish you the best. I hope everything works out the way you want it and give you the peace you seek.

 

[DOHARDTHINGS24]

It looks well thought out and planned, i don't see anything wrong with it. I wish you the best. I hope everything works out the way you want it and give you the peace you seek.

Thank you.
Not that well thought out or planned, which is the concerning part. Legit took me longer to tap out on phone & only wrote yesterday. And haven't reread since posting or done any more research or posted the follow up questions that are floating around somewhere in the back of my brain. Maybe.
The decision was made so very long ago. So long. But the logistics have been left to the last minute. I never thought it'd be like this. I really thought I'd have locked down my protocol & finalised everything. Done better homework, like Plato & Joe. I know my circumstances are completely different with the whole privacy & safety & time & health stuff, but I'm still so disappointed in myself which isn't helping. Me & Shame are besties. Which sucks.
And my other bestie, Anxiety, simply cannot believe I'm going to attempt without proper planning - I never ever thought this is where I'd be. Special shout outs also go to ADHD, TBI & my ex.
Thanks for the bump, I really appreciate it
I'd hoped for some more responses. Which is selfish & expecting a lot. I know people are busy & have different time zones & their own lives.
BUT Time really is a problem now.
If you get a chance, I'm not above asking you to bump again, just type BUMP

 

[Whale_bones]

Which part of your protocol are you concerned about, though? I'm not an expert, but you seem to have thought through the things that are relevant to your situation and planned accordingly. You've decided the details like when exactly to take each medication, you even have plans for labelling the SN cups in the short time between preparing and drinking them.

I think your plan is very detailed, and trying to put in more details may just cause you more unnecessary anxiety at this point.

 

[DOHARDTHINGS24]

Which part of your protocol are you considered about though?

Thank you.
Biggest concerns:
1 - exactly how much AE to take, as most of the info is about meto & even the pph says 2 different things.
2 - a bit of guidance on the benzo situation - would it be safe for me to chuck in a little temazepam to help tame the anxiety beast, without getting too sedated? How much diazepam / valium considering the huge swings I listed from Joe & Vizzy & pph & various converters?
I'm worried about SI, taking too much or too little, too soon or too late. Most of the info is skewed at oxazepam.
If I could've gotten meto & oxazepam, it would've sorted most of this for me. I could've just copied everyone else's homework, a proven successful protocol. The variables are fucking me up. I don't want to get it wrong - I'm just hoping that anyone with pharmacological knowledge (or even just more time alone with the internet, at this point...)
3 - are the timings accurate enough?
4 - how long a fast is enough? Pph says several hours, most guides say 4 - 8 hours, the bible recommends 24...Is several enough?
5 - how long in advance could I prepare the SN drinks, to keep the anxiety down?
And lastly, finally,
6 - I have 2 packages of SN, from the same delivery from DMC. I severely under ordered. I opened one tiny bit (before they changed quantity sizes) & tested both blood & aquarium & resealed BUT probably not well enough TBH. The other tiny amount is unopened which means no exposure but also no testing & no checking that it's intact within its packaging.
If the second batch is good, I have "enough". If it's damaged, I'll be relying on the preopened stuff. I know the pph & bible say air & moisture degrade it over time & that that's not visible to the naked eye. But does that mean the degradation would or wouldn't show up on an aquarium test????
Because of my living situation (sheer hell) the opened package has legit stayed on my person for months, repackaged, but not inspected, & not ideal conditions - temp changes & banging about & all sorts.
The unopened package is hidden with absolutely everything I have, except the protocol I handwrote, poorly. It is a very big deal to get out of hiding more than once. It's somewhere insane. But no light, adequate temperatures. But not even opened the packaging so have no idea.
I always "planned" to have a proper plan & be in control & take my time. Life never really agrees with my plans.
So if I open the second tiny package & it's not even SN, just actual goddamn curing products & I need to rely on the first tiny opened package - will any degradation from abuse & neglect show up on the aquarium test? That'd really take a load off.
I really appreciate your time & efforts & never take anything for granted here.
Any additional help from you or anyone else in the community, would definitely help with the anxiety.
I'm beyond confident about my decision.
My protocol is merely winging it in a lot of places & time is now very much of the essence. Don't feel obligated to respond, I started to answer you & then lost track of myself (hence why I defs can't trust myself, I just can't)
If anyone else has answers to these points, I'd be fucking thrilled.
Anyone. Any answers.
I can't believe this is my situation - not the bus bit, the planning bit - but it just IS & I've gotta deal with this hand. It's my only hand.
Sincere apologies to all, I hate being or even feeling lazy & stupid & incapable of sorting my own shit.
My responsibility.
I'll take whatever is on offer though, with genuine & overwhelming gratitude.

 

[Apathy79]

Is there any particular reason you are fasting less than 24 hours? Especially less than 12? It's mostly about mitigating the risk of vomiting as I understand it - unless you have a reason to fast less, I'd just do it. The longer you fast, the less likely you are to vomit, is my logic.

 

[DOHARDTHINGS24]

In an ideal world, I'd do the full 24 hours & I still might be able to. Time has suddenly become much more urgent though which sucks.
This process has been fast then slow then fast again, but now it's gotta stay full steam ahead.
I've seen documented successful cases without any AE at all but can't remember if there's a difference in success rates based on fasting time.
Being prepared for worst case.
I really appreciate you responding. Thank you.

 

[Forveleth]

Is there any particular reason you are fasting less than 24 hours? Especially less than 12? It's mostly about mitigating the risk of vomiting as I understand it - unless you have a reason to fast less, I'd just do it. The longer you fast, the less likely you are to vomit, is my logic.

There are two reasons for fasting with this protocol. One, having an empty stomach so you absorb SN faster (ie, there isn't food getting in the way). Two, there is less "stuff" to vomit up and you are less likely to die by choking on undigested food chunks (the same reason you fast before surgery).

It takes 4-8 hours for your stomach to process solid foods and empty itself hence the protocol being a 4-8 hour fast (it takes about 2 hours to process liquids so you can still drink up until 2 hours prior). Fasting longer than that is overkill and, for some, may actually lead to a higher chance of vomiting as some people get an upset stomach after breaking a long fast.

@DOHARDTHINGS24 some thoughts:
1. I would recommend some sort of pain killer if it doesn't interfere with the other medications you are taking. People report strong headaches after taking SN and a pain killer will make you more comfortable.
2. If you are worried about your valium/diazepam is it possible to take just one beforehand? That way you can time how long it takes to kick in and how it will affect you. I am curious as to why you are planning to take them after taking SN as, even crushed, they will still take time to kick in.
3. I don't know how long SN can sit in water and still be effective (biologist, not chemist). I have never seen anyone mix it 90 minutes beforehand so I am a little weary of that.

I think your protocol looks good. SN is pretty deadly and there have been a lot of "success" stories here. So long as you aren't found, you have a pretty good chance of catching the bus.

 

[DOHARDTHINGS24]

It takes 4-8 hours for your stomach to process solid foods and empty itself hence the protocol being a 4-8 hour fast (it takes about 2 hours to process liquids so you can still drink up until 2 hours prior).

Thank you so much!!
You think 4 would be enough, if I had to?

@DOHARDTHINGS24 some thoughts:
1. I would recommend some sort of pain killer if it doesn't interfere with the other medications you are taking. People report strong headaches after taking SN and a pain killer will make you more comfortable.

That was a follow up question I didn't get to yet. Vizzys bible says max 1000mg paracetamol (don't want to take ibuprofen) The PPH didn't mention painkillers. What would your recommendation be for paracetamol- how much & when?
I've had blood pressure headaches before & just excruciating.

2. If you are worried about your valium/diazepam is it possible to take just one beforehand? That way you can time how long it takes to kick in and how it will affect you. I am curious as to why you are planning to take them after taking SN as, even crushed, they will still take time to kick in.

Valium knocks me around, even in small doses. I was hoping to take some temazepam (whole) prior to drinking SN. - I can take that & be confident I'll stay awake. But I don't know if it's a good idea to add another med.
I'm super interested in the bit about you being curious I'd take valium after SN. Benzo timing has been non stop dead ends for me. Can you please let me know your thoughts on when to take? And amount too, if possible.

3. I don't know how long SN can sit in water and still be effective (biologist, not chemist). I have never seen anyone mix it 90 minutes beforehand so I am a little weary of that.

I remember when I joined, @Acritarch helped me & they said (just basing this solely off only them) that if stored in dark seaked jars away from light, it retains full effect for 2 - 4 hours. They also said that in open jars, it would probs only be good for 15-30 minutes. I haven't seen this anywhere else. I have dark vacuum sealed jars already- there's a little bit of metal at the top though. Would that be likely to interfere with SN's effectiveness?

I think your protocol looks good. SN is pretty deadly and there have been a lot of "success" stories here. So long as you aren't found, you have a pretty good chance of catching the bus.

Thank you so much.
I truly appreciate every single second you took out of your life & dedicated to me

 

[Forveleth]

Thank you so much!!
You think 4 would be enough, if I had to?

It depends on what you eat. Small, light meals will take 4 hours. Something heavy, particularly if it's greasy, will take 8.

That was a follow up question I didn't get to yet. Vizzys bible says max 1000mg paracetamol (don't want to take ibuprofen) The PPH didn't mention painkillers. What would your recommendation be for paracetamol- how much & when?
I've had blood pressure headaches before & just excruciating.

Not an expert on this, but based on the threads I have seen I think people take 1000mg, 30-60 minutes before taking SN. I think the idea is to have it already good and working in your system when you drink.

Valium knocks me around, even in small doses. I was hoping to take some temazepam (whole) prior to drinking SN. - I can take that & be confident I'll stay awake. But I don't know if it's a good idea to add another med.
I'm super interested in the bit about you being curious I'd take valium after SN. Benzo timing has been non stop dead ends for me. Can you please let me know your thoughts on when to take? And amount too, if possible.

I know nothing about these types of medications, I just know that they affect everyone differently which is why I asked if you have taken them before. Unfortunately, I can't give any advice on amounts. I do think taking temazepam could help as you said it calms you without leaving you impaired. Although it is another step, it sounds like it could lead to a higher chance of success for you.

I remember when I joined, @Acritarch helped me & they said (just basing this solely off only them) that if stored in dark seaked jars away from light, it retains full effect for 2 - 4 hours. They also said that in open jars, it would probs only be good for 15-30 minutes. I haven't seen this anywhere else. I have dark vacuum sealed jars already- there's a little bit of metal at the top though. Would that be likely to interfere with SN's effectiveness?

Ah, I didn't know someone had tried this! Very informative. I the little bit of metal is not going to do anything to the SN's effectiveness, just try to avoid contact between the SN powder and metal. This is a good time to remind you to use glass/plastic only! No metal spoons/cups for weighing/mixing!

 

[opheliaoveragain]

bump for you friend. it sounds solid to me, no glaring issues.

 

[Readytogo246]

It looks good. I might suggest going longer with your fast so your stomach is empty of any food to avoid throwing up the SN. Best of luck to you in succeeding.

 

[DOHARDTHINGS24]

IAh, I didn't know someone had tried this! Very informative.

I think in the end, they made theirs 30 min in advance. And they posted about dark apothecary jars etc. But they were so prepared, the opposite of me. They had 3 cups made from 3 different suppliers, all with COA. Treated it like the project it's supposed to be.
I don't need an A+
I just need my bus.
I've been repeating that in my head.
Still unsure of AE amount or benzo timing...

This is a good time to remind you to use glass/plastic only! No metal spoons/cups for weighing/mixing!

Absolutely! Thank you for that. I bought special new ones & put them with my SN, so I wouldn't forget.
But thanks again. Every reminder is a great reminder when your memory is ruined by TBI. Thanks again. So grateful.

bump for you friend. it sounds solid to me, no glaring issues.

Thanks. Still dunno AE quantity.
Or when to take the valium.
Stuck, stuck, stuck.

It looks good. I might suggest going longer with your fast so your stomach is empty of any food to avoid throwing up the SN. Best of luck to you in succeeding.

Thanks so much.
I know the ideal amount & am aiming for that. But life...
I just wish I had a solid idea of the MINIMUM amount - so I know in the back of my mind, to calm the anxiety beast in case things speed up even more.
Thanks again

 

[Forveleth]

It looks good. I might suggest going longer with your fast so your stomach is empty of any food to avoid throwing up the SN. Best of luck to you in succeeding.

FYI, the presence of food is not what causes you throw up. The SN is what makes you throw up. It's a huge amount of salt that upsets the electrolyte balance in your body, which makes you nauseated. You can do the same thing with regular table salt.

 

[Whale_bones]

Thank you.
Biggest concerns:
1 - exactly how much AE to take, as most of the info is about meto & even the pph says 2 different things.

3 - are the timings accurate enough?

6 - I have 2 packages of SN, from the same delivery from DMC.
Because of my living situation (sheer hell) the opened package has legit stayed on my person for months, repackaged, but not inspected, & not ideal conditions - temp changes & banging about & all sorts.
The unopened package is hidden with absolutely everything I have, except the protocol I handwrote, poorly. It is a very big deal to get out of hiding more than once. It's somewhere insane. But no light, adequate temperatures. But not even opened the packaging so have no idea.

Sincere apologies to all, I hate being or even feeling lazy & stupid & incapable of sorting my own shit.
My responsibility.
I'll take whatever is on offer though, with genuine & overwhelming gratitude.

I've read some of your previous posts so I am (in a very general way) familiar with your situation, I lived with a controlling ex for several years myself and remember the severe stress I was under every day, so my heart goes out to you and I'm sending you boatloads of strength!!

I don't have any pharmacological knowledge, I only have laymen's knowledge from taking a lot of medications over the years So I'll respond with what I can.

For the Prochlorperazine, I'd be thinking either the standard dose for nausea or twice the standard dose. I know you bring up side effects, AthiestJoe wrote a great thread about Meto where he talks about how medications are meant to be overly safe, because many people accidentally take twice their dosage. Take a look at the section "But why so many side effects for the med? That's all relevant to Prochlorperazine too. Warnings are there to avoid liability for insurance companies, and the only reason I'd be worried about rare side effects is if you have specific health conditions that you know increase the risk.

As for drug interaction checkers, it's much the same: many of the side effects listed happen to a very small percentage of people, but they still have to be listed. You could look up studies on Prochlorperazine and the other medications that will be in your system when you take it, and see what percentage of people had specific side effects. That would still be just a general baseline though, since no one can know your body's precise chances. I would just recommend you don't assume anything from seeing possible side effects listed; how likely they are is the important part.

The timings look as specific as they can be; if possible, maybe come up with some things that would relax you or things you'd enjoy doing earlier in the day? That way you're not just having to think about it from when you wake up all the way until evening.

I'm not super knowledgeable on how SN degrades, so maybe someone else should answer, but I personally would not rely on the SN that has been on your person for a long time and has been banged about, etc. However, your other SN sounds like it's been stored perfectly, it's from a reliable source that many other people had success with, and I think you can be as confident as anyone could be in that! So I would personally say try not to worry too much about that. Easier said than done, I know!

I don't think you're lazy or incapable at all!! You're trying to make a well-thought-out, detailed protocol and you're understandably nervous about it going right the first time because of your living situation.

 

[DOHARDTHINGS24]

FYI, the presence of food is not what causes you throw up. The SN is what makes you throw up. It's a huge amount of salt that upsets the electrolyte balance in your body, which makes you nauseated. You can do the same thing with regular table salt.

I did actually do with table salt a while back. Defs nauseated. Walked around saying Why me?? For an hour or so. Was really retchy. I remember Vizzy saying it doesn't matter what you throw up, it matters what you keep down. I find this reassuring. Thanks so much.

I've read some of your previous posts so I am (in a very general way) familiar with your situation, I lived with a controlling ex for several years myself and remember the severe stress I was under every day, so my heart goes out to you and I'm sending you boatloads of strength!!

I don't have any pharmacological knowledge, I only have laymen's knowledge from taking a lot of medications over the years So I'll respond with what I can.

For the Prochlorperazine, I'd be thinking either the standard dose for nausea or twice the standard dose. I know you bring up side effects, AthiestJoe wrote a great thread about Meto where he talks about how medications are meant to be overly safe, because many people accidentally take twice their dosage. Take a look at the section "But why so many side effects for the med? That's all relevant to Prochlorperazine too. Warnings are there to avoid liability for insurance companies, and the only reason I'd be worried about rare side effects is if you have specific health conditions that you know increase the risk.

As for drug interaction checkers, it's much the same: many of the side effects listed happen to a very small percentage of people, but they still have to be listed. You could look up studies on Prochlorperazine and the other medications that will be in your system when you take it, and see what percentage of people had specific side effects. That would still be just a general baseline though, since no one can know your body's precise chances. I would just recommend you don't assume anything from seeing possible side effects listed; how likely they are is the important part.

The timings look as specific as they can be; if possible, maybe come up with some things that would relax you or things you'd enjoy doing earlier in the day? That way you're not just having to think about it from when you wake up all the way until evening.

I'm not super knowledgeable on how SN degrades, so maybe someone else should answer, but I personally would not rely on the SN that has been on your person for a long time and has been banged about, etc. However, your other SN sounds like it's been stored perfectly, it's from a reliable source that many other people had success with, and I think you can be as confident as anyone could be in that! So I would personally say try not to worry too much about that. Easier said than done, I know!

I don't think you're lazy or incapable at all!! You're trying to make a well-thought-out, detailed protocol and you're understandably nervous about it going right the first time because of your living situation.

Thank you for your loveliness. I only have one sec now so can't answer properly. Looks like I blew my window - finding enough time alone & unwatched to CTB is my biggest issue. It's so rare to be alone long enough. If there wasn't an antidote, I'd have more opportunities. I'm worried about my "dead"line. Gotta run